[Nicko]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/3570845.stm
Bush's Iraq WMDs joke backfires
US President George W Bush has sparked a political row by making a joke about the failure to find weapons of mass destruction in Iraq.

At a black-tie dinner for journalists, Mr Bush narrated a slide show poking fun at himself and other members of his administration.

One pictured Mr Bush looking under a piece of furniture in the Oval Office, at which the president remarked: "Those weapons of mass destruction have got to be here somewhere."

After another one, showing him scouring the corner of a room, Mr Bush said: "No, no weapons over there," he said.

And as a third picture, this time showing him leaning over, appeared on the screen the president was heard to say: "Maybe under here?"

If George Bush thinks his deceptive rationale for going to war is a laughing matter, then he's even more out of touch than we thought
John Kerry
Democratic Party challenger for the presidency
The audience at Wednesday's 60th annual dinner of the Radio and Television Correspondents' Association obviously thought the quips hilarious - there were laughs all round - but the next morning, in the cold light of day, things looked far less amusing.

The joke about the fruitless search for Iraqi WMDs so far, Washington's prime justification for the US-led invasion, has been branded as tasteless and ill-judged.

'Undermining' sacrifices

Mr Bush's election challenger Senator John Kerry described the president's attitude as "stunningly cavalier".

"If George Bush thinks his deceptive rationale for going to war is a laughing matter, then he's even more out of touch than we thought," he said in a written statement.

"Unfortunately for the president, this is not a joke."

Mr Kerry's statement also included a comment from Iraq war veteran Brad Owens, who said: "War is the single most serious event that a president or government can carry its people into.

"This cheapens the sacrifice that American soldiers and their families are dealing with every single day."

More than 500 US soldiers have died in the war and thousands more have been injured.

US Defence Secretary Donald Rumsfeld was asked what he thought of this incident at a press conference on Friday, but he dodged the issue, saying that he couldn't comment as he hadn't been at the event.
----

Guess it was one of those ' you had to be there to find it funny' kind of jokes....

[Shaddim]

Originally posted by Nicko:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/3570845.stm
Bush's Iraq WMDs joke backfires
US President George W Bush has sparked a political row by making a joke about the failure to find weapons of mass destruction in Iraq.

At a black-tie dinner for journalists, Mr Bush narrated a slide show poking fun at himself and other members of his administration.

One pictured Mr Bush looking under a piece of furniture in the Oval Office, at which the president remarked: "Those weapons of mass destruction have got to be here somewhere."

After another one, showing him scouring the corner of a room, Mr Bush said: "No, no weapons over there," he said.

And as a third picture, this time showing him leaning over, appeared on the screen the president was heard to say: "Maybe under here?"

If George Bush thinks his deceptive rationale for going to war is a laughing matter, then he's even more out of touch than we thought
John Kerry
Democratic Party challenger for the presidency
The audience at Wednesday's 60th annual dinner of the Radio and Television Correspondents' Association obviously thought the quips hilarious - there were laughs all round - but the next morning, in the cold light of day, things looked far less amusing.

The joke about the fruitless search for Iraqi WMDs so far, Washington's prime justification for the US-led invasion, has been branded as tasteless and ill-judged.

'Undermining' sacrifices

Mr Bush's election challenger Senator John Kerry described the president's attitude as "stunningly cavalier".

"If George Bush thinks his deceptive rationale for going to war is a laughing matter, then he's even more out of touch than we thought," he said in a written statement.

"Unfortunately for the president, this is not a joke."

Mr Kerry's statement also included a comment from Iraq war veteran Brad Owens, who said: "War is the single most serious event that a president or government can carry its people into.

"This cheapens the sacrifice that American soldiers and their families are dealing with every single day."

More than 500 US soldiers have died in the war and thousands more have been injured.

US Defence Secretary Donald Rumsfeld was asked what he thought of this incident at a press conference on Friday, but he dodged the issue, saying that he couldn't comment as he hadn't been at the event.
----

Guess it was one of those ' you had to be there to find it funny' kind of jokes....

yeah yeah, whatever.... Kerry musta had his funny bone blown off when he was in `Nam. Silly putz.

[SimeyTheLimey]

Backfires? Not really. Kerry is making himself appear like a humorless, self-important pedant. That plays much less well than self-deprecation. Frankly, his comments are much more likely to backfire since they play badly to his public image as a stuffed shirt.

[Zimphire]

John Kerry said there was WMDs there too.

What a waffle.

[Spheric Harlot]

I have to agree with the original post's sentiment.

I'm sure Bush and his cronies find their inability to justify the deaths of 10,000 innocent human beings highly amusing and have a great laugh over it on their way to the bank.

It looks grossly misplaced and out-of-touch to the rest of the world.

Appalling

-s*

[Zimphire]

Originally posted by Spheric Harlot:
I'm sure Bush and his cronies find their inability to justify the deaths of 10,000 innocent human beings

I suggest you go watch the video I posted in this part of the forum.

How many people were killed in WWII? Were they justified? Should we have just let Germany take over because of the same reasons?

How many more people needed to die in Iraq under Saddam's ruling for you to say "Ok it was justified" ?

[angaq0k]

Originally posted by Zimphire:
I suggest you go watch the video I posted in this part of the forum.

How many people were killed in WWII? Were they justified? Should we have just let Germany take over because of the same reasons?

How many more people needed to die in Iraq under Saddam's ruling for you to say "Ok it was justified" ?

How many dead does it require to make it funny?

[Shaddim]

Originally posted by Zimphire:
I suggest you go watch the video I posted in this part of the forum.

How many people were killed in WWII? Were they justified? Should we have just let Germany take over because of the same reasons?

How many more people needed to die in Iraq under Saddam's ruling for you to say "Ok it was justified" ?

Silly rabbit, it's not about justification, it's about agenda. That will always turn a virtue into a crime.

[Zimphire]

Originally posted by angaq0k:
How many dead does it require to make it funny?

He wasn't laughing about the dead people. You are knee-jerking. On purpose I might ad.

Originally posted by MacNStein:
Silly rabbit, it's not about justification, it's about agenda. That will always turn a virtue into a crime.

Of course, sorry, I forgot. Silly me.

[Spliffdaddy]

Dubya makes fun of himself and the liberals throw a hissy fit because poking fun at Dubya is *their* job.

I have to say it makes the Dems look like complete dolts.

[Spheric Harlot]

Originally posted by Zimphire:
I suggest you go watch the video I posted in this part of the forum.

You mean the one that gives a "pay me for video" page?

Originally posted by Zimphire:
How many people were killed in WWII? Were they justified? Should we have just let Germany take over because of the same reasons?

How many more people needed to die in Iraq under Saddam's ruling for you to say "Ok it was justified" ?

Strawmen I won't bother knocking.

[Zimphire]

Originally posted by Spheric Harlot:
You mean the one that gives a "pay me for video" page?

No this one
http://www.brain-terminal.com/video/...-20/index.html

Strawmen I won't bother knocking.

No, not a straw-man. I was comparing similar actions that caused the death of many. That was indeed just.

If it was a straw-man argument, it would be easy for you to refute.

This isn't the case here. Sorry.

Your claim is that the lives of few were wasted on the lives of many.

The "Bush lied people died" rant is a dishonest one.

[slow moe]

I wonder, did Kerry vote for the jokes being funny before he voted against it?

[Zimphire]

Originally posted by slow moe:
I wonder, did Kerry vote for the jokes being funny before he voted against it?

[Wiskedjak]

Originally posted by Spliffdaddy:
Dubya makes fun of himself and the liberals throw a hissy fit because poking fun at Dubya is *their* job.

I have to say it makes the Dems look like complete dolts.

He did not make fun of himself. He made fun of all those people he convinced Iraq needed to be invaded because it had WMD and all those people who died invading and occupying Iraq.

[Zimphire]

Originally posted by Wiskedjak:
He did not make fun of himself.

Yes he indeed did.

He made fun of all those people he convinced Iraq needed to be invaded because it had WMD and all those people who died invading and occupying Iraq.

Go watch this please. For all our sanity.

http://www.brain-terminal.com/video/...-20/index.html

Thanks.

[Spheric Harlot]

Originally posted by Zimphire:
I was comparing similar actions that caused the death of many.

No.

[Zimphire]

Yes, yes indeed I was.

Unless you are trying to say you know what I was comparing more than I.

Which would be silly.

[daimoni]

.

[angaq0k]

Originally posted by Zimphire:
He wasn't laughing about the dead people. You are knee-jerking. On purpose I might ad.

I think it is tasteless to laugh about several billion dollars thrown away on a cause built on speculation which lead to 590 American soldiers and 10 000 Iraqis turned dead.

But, heck, tis' your country. Not mine.

Of course, it is easy to laugh when you sit at home or drive your car which is fueled because of the same people who die for you.

But these guys are only killing themselves for your little comfort. You just make sure to share the jokes with the soldiers on their way home...

[Spliffdaddy]

heh.

humor is absolutely wasted on miserable, unhappy individuals.

[Zimphire]

Originally posted by angaq0k:
I think it is tasteless to laugh about several billion dollars thrown away on a cause built on speculation which lead to 590 American soldiers and 10 000 Iraqis turned dead.

Please do us all a favor and watch this.

http://www.brain-terminal.com/video/...-20/index.html

Thnx

[Zimphire]

Originally posted by Spliffdaddy:
heh.

humor is absolutely wasted on miserable, unhappy individuals.

Or those that cannot stand anything Bush does to be looked upon as good.

[finboy]

Originally posted by Zimphire:
John Kerry said there was WMDs there too.

What a waffle.

Gee, so did most of the Clinton administration. Is it in the media?

Remember, Herr Goebbels recommended that one take over the media first. Once that's done, the rest is easy.

[eklipse]

Originally posted by Spliffdaddy:
heh.

humor is absolutely wasted on miserable, unhappy individuals.

Some of the other things Dubya said were quite amusing, but the 'looking-for-WMD' 'joke' was tasteless and stupid.

[angaq0k]

Originally posted by Zimphire:
Please do us all a favor and watch this.

http://www.brain-terminal.com/video/...-20/index.html

Thnx

Could not find much fun in that.

What do you find funny in it?

Please amuse me...

[Wiskedjak]

It doesn't matter to me that Clinton was wrong about the presence of WMD in Iraq. It doesn't matter to me that Kerry was wrong about the presence of WMD in Iraq. It doesn't matter to me that Clinton was wrong about the presence of WMD in Iraq. It doesn't even matter to me that Bush was wrong about the presence of WMD in Iraq.

What does matter to me is that Bush acted on his belief about the presence of WMD without confirmed knowledge about the presence of WMD in Iraq. What matters to me is that thousands of people died as a direct result of this action. What matters to me is that Bush is now making jokes about this action.

[Zimphire]

Originally posted by angaq0k:
Could not find much fun in that.

What do you find funny in it?

Please amuse me...

Huh? When did I say it was funny?

I said watch it.

Do you not understand why I asked you to watch it?

[angaq0k]

This what is happening re: Joke on WMD's

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/3570255.stm

A report by an army medical health team which visited that region also showed low morale among troops and units.

At least 23 US soldiers in Iraq and Kuwait committed suicide last year.

As a proportion of the number of troops deployed, that is more than a third higher than the rate for the US army as a whole in 2003.

The army says it cannot find any clear reason for this but there is concern about whether more can be done to bring the rate down.

At the same time, the US military says the rate of suicides among soldiers in Iraq and Kuwait is still lower than the equivalent civilian population of young males.

Low morale

Fifty-two percent of soldiers reported low or very low morale. Seventy-two percent reported low or very low unit morale.

The team suggested this was in part the result of the particularly difficult living and combat conditions at the time of its survey - from late August to early October last year.

But it did also find inadequate training to deal with medical health problems, and in some cases that there had been shortages of medication such as anti-depressants.

funny... it's just that there is that strange aftertaste when you choke on a joke like that...

I have another one, just as funny:

http://www.sunherald.com/mld/sunhera...cs/8278162.htm

George Medina, 43, of Orange County, who lost a son in Iraq, heard about Bush's remarks when his outraged daughter, an Army sergeant, called him Thursday. "She was very upset," Medina said.

"This is disgraceful," Medina continued. "He doesn't think of all the families that are suffering. It's unbelievable, how this guy tries to run the country."

His 22-year-old son, Spec. Irving Medina, died Nov. 14 in Baghdad when an explosive device struck his convoy.

Charles Celestin, 28, of Coral Springs, Fla., and Irving Medina's brother-in-law, blasted the commander in chief's remarks.

"To be poking fun; it's just a travesty to the soldiers who lost their lives. I think it's disrespectful," he said.

Trivializing the death of people who served you is showing a lot of disrespect. Once you will be called on duty, you will not laugh that hard and you will try to remember you agreed to go because you trust the guy who sent you.

Your soldiers deserve at least the decency of consideration for their sacrifice for your comfort.

[Zimphire]

Originally posted by Wiskedjak:
It doesn't matter to me that Clinton was wrong about the presence of WMD in Iraq. It doesn't matter to me that Kerry was wrong about the presence of WMD in Iraq. It doesn't matter to me that Clinton was wrong about the presence of WMD in Iraq. It doesn't even matter to me that Bush was wrong about the presence of WMD in Iraq.

You mentioned Clinton twice.

BTW you claiming they were wrong doesn't make it so right?

Prove Iraq never had any WMDs. when I say proof I don't mean "Look they didn't find any!"
Because they my friend is not proof.

If I put a needle in a haystack and you can't find it, does that then mean it doesn't exist?

Of course not.

What does matter to me is that Bush acted on his belief about the presence of WMD without confirmed knowledge about the presence of WMD in Iraq.

You do realize it was up to Iraq to prove they got rid of all their banned weapons right?

The fact they failed to comply was reason enough.

People keep trying to ignore that.

What matters to me is that thousands of people died as a direct result of this action.

No, that doesn't matter to you. You are just using it as an excuse. If that was the case you'd be upset over the THOUSANDS of MORE people that died under Saddam's rule because NOTHING WAS DONE.

Or the THOUSANDS of MORE people that would have died if Bush had not done it.

But, I know you and your leftist friends were and are hoping this whole expedition turns out for the worst so you can dance around the Maypole flag in your earth friendly hempware and proclaim yourselves "lovers of humanity."

The irony.

What matters to me is that Bush is now making jokes about this action.

No, you are knee-jerking. On purpose I might add.

[angaq0k]

Originally posted by Zimphire:
Huh? When did I say it was funny?

I said watch it.

Do you not understand why I asked you to watch it?

No, I still don't. Please explain me.

[Zimphire]

Originally posted by angaq0k:
Trivializing the death of people who served you is showing a lot of disrespect. Once you will be called on duty, you will not laugh that hard and you will try to remember you agreed to go because you trust the guy who sent you.

Your soldiers deserve at least the decency of consideration for their sacrifice for your comfort.

He wasn't doing that. Knee jerker. If that is what you think he was doing, you didn't undestand the joke,

On purpose or not.

Originally posted by Spliffdaddy:
heh.

humor is absolutely wasted on miserable, unhappy individuals.

Indeed.

[Zimphire]

Originally posted by angaq0k:
No, I still don't. Please explain me.

Watch it again. And please listen to what is being said.

[angaq0k]

Originally posted by Zimphire:
Watch it again. And please listen to what is being said.

I did. Twice already. I still cannot find the humor.

So why don't you explain it yourself?

[Zimphire]

Originally posted by angaq0k:
I did. Twice already. I still cannot find the humor.

WHEN DID I SAY IT WAS HUMOROUS?

WHEN?

PLEASE POINT IT OUT TO ME.

Sheesh..

[angaq0k]

Originally posted by Zimphire:
WHEN DID I SAY IT WAS HUMOROUS?

WHEN?

PLEASE POINT IT OUT TO ME.

Sheesh..

Who was Bush making fun of? ===> Bush
What was the topic? =========> Bush search for WMDs

Who died for it? ============> American soldiers (588) and 10 k Iraqis

Who's laughing? ============> Bush

Yet, you claim he is not making fun of the dead...

Then you give us that link on a movie that has nothing to do with this thread... But "seems" to be funny.

I still cannot understand what you are doing here...

And this is my last reply to you in this thread until you explain something plain and clear.

[Lerkfish]

Originally posted by Zimphire:
WHEN DID I SAY IT WAS HUMOROUS?

WHEN?

PLEASE POINT IT OUT TO ME.

Sheesh..

all caps key stuck?

anyways, I think I can see where the misunderstanding comes in, from the flippant thread title "Pin the tail on the donkey" can sort of give people the idea its meant to be humorous or at least making fun of democrats.

Its not always easy to convey or understand humor on the internet.

To the thread in general: in the other thread on this subject, I think people will find I said "self-deprecatory humor is always appreciated"...so I think the characterization made by someone about liberals not being able to take humor is not accurate in all cases.
I took his joke as making fun of his own inability to find WMDs, which IS funny to me....not his joke about it, but the actual situation. I think its pretty hilarious that the supposed greatest country on earth can blunder so badly.....at that moment I wasn't thinking about all the innocents killed in our regime change of Iraq.
On the other hand, though, I can see where people, especially people who have family or friends who were killed extrapolating that into making fun of the Iraq invasion itself. If so, I can see where being more sensitive to that hurts no one, but being insensitive to that CERTAINLY hurts someone.

I mean, if Bush had made a similar joke, about himself reading books to schoolchildren while the hijackers were crashing into buildings, I doubt any american would find that too humorous.

[Zimphire]

Originally posted by angaq0k:
Who was Bush making fun of? ===> Bush
What was the topic? =========> Bush search for WMDs

Who died for it? ============> American soldiers (588) and 10 k Iraqis

Who's laughing? ============> Bush

Yet, you claim he is not making fun of the dead...

Then you give us that link on a movie that has nothing to do with this thread... But "seems" to be funny.

I still cannot understand what you are doing here...

And this is my last reply to you in this thread until you explain something plain and clear.

An I said the MOVIE I posted to you wasn't funny.

I was showing you indeed said attack was just.

[Zimphire]

Originally posted by Lerkfish:
all caps key stuck?

anyways, I think I can see where the misunderstanding comes in, from the flippant thread title "Pin the tail on the donkey" can sort of give people the idea its meant to be humorous or at least making fun of democrats.

Its not always easy to convey or understand humor on the internet.

To the thread in general: in the other thread on this subject, I think people will find I said "self-deprecatory humor is always appreciated"...so I think the characterization made by someone about liberals not being able to take humor is not accurate in all cases.
I took his joke as making fun of his own inability to find WMDs, which IS funny to me....not his joke about it, but the actual situation. I think its pretty hilarious that the supposed greatest country on earth can blunder so badly.....at that moment I wasn't thinking about all the innocents killed in our regime change of Iraq.
On the other hand, though, I can see where people, especially people who have family or friends who were killed extrapolating that into making fun of the Iraq invasion itself. If so, I can see where being more sensitive to that hurts no one, but being insensitive to that CERTAINLY hurts someone.

I mean, if Bush had made a similar joke, about himself reading books to schoolchildren while the hijackers were crashing into buildings, I doubt any american would find that too humorous.

Lerk I misundestood him

His wording was off. He worded it as if I was meaning the video was funny.

He meant

"Ok I watched the video, I still don't think the joke was funny"

He obviously didn't get the joke then.

There are jokes I don't get. That doesn't mean I am going to project things into them that aren't there.

This is called knee-jerking.

Notice you never see you Dems crying fowl When John over at the Daily Show makes distasteful jokes about 9/11

Not once.

But if GW makes a joke that could be projected as distasteful, the haters are all over it.

They don't care about if it was distasteful, but the fact that Bush said it.

It's as transparent as can be.

[osiris]

I mean, if Bush had made a similar joke, about himself reading books to schoolchildren while the hijackers were crashing into buildings, I doubt any american would find that too humorous. [/B]

Bush hit the Trifecta with that one.

[osiris]

Originally posted by Zimphire:
Notice you never see you Dems crying fowl When John over at the Daily Show makes distasteful jokes about 9/11

Not once.

But if GW makes a joke that could be projected as distasteful, the haters are all over it.

They don't care about if it was distasteful, but the fact that Bush said it.

It's as transparent as can be.

Because Bush is the 'President' of the most powerful nation on earth, not the host of the Daily Show. There is a difference.

[angaq0k]

Originally posted by Zimphire:
Lerk I misundestood him

______snip!snip!__________

It's as transparent as can be.

No it is not. You still haven't explain it to me. All you posted was "watch that video".

I think I started to misunderstand when you replied to Spheric Harlot where he posted about "Bush and his cronies (...) on their way to the bank".

You then replied to him to watch the video you posted elsewhere. I replied with the idea that since Bush was laughing at his own search for WMDs, and during that wild goose chase, people died (a lot), that one is entitled to ask how many people should die to make Bush joke about it.

While you thought he was not laughing about dead people (you posted the funny pict on autonomic response of the nervous system), and accused me of knee-jerking on purpose.

Bush's joke is still not funny in that context. And your reference to that movie, http://www.brain-terminal.com/video/...-20/index.html added to the misunderstanding, especially in regards of this thread, imo.

I did ask you to explain to me. You did not: "watch the video" was your answer.

Yes I misunderstood. But my point is still valid, imo. Kerrry would do the same joke it would be different because he is not the one who sent troops in Iraq. But I am patient; he is going to do something silly at some point, because politicians are human beings and they all do that human thing that makes us laugh, even when it is not funny.

[Zimphire]

Originally posted by osiris:
Because Bush is the 'President' of the most powerful nation on earth, not the host of the Daily Show. There is a difference.

Er that doesn't make the offense any different.

[Zimphire]

Originally posted by angaq0k:
No it is not. You still haven't explain it to me. All you posted was "watch that video".

I think I started to misunderstand when you replied to Spheric Harlot where he posted about "Bush and his cronies (...) on their way to the bank".

You then replied to him to watch the video you posted elsewhere. I replied with the idea that since Bush was laughing at his own search for WMDs, and during that wild goose chase, people died (a lot), that one is entitled to ask how many people should die to make Bush joke about it.

I was showing you that we didn't just attack Iraq to find the WMDs.

If you want to blame anyone for those died, Blame Saddam for not complying with UN resolutions and not taking the many, many, many chances we gave him to just leave.

While you thought he was not laughing about dead people (you posted the funny pict on autonomic response of the nervous system), and accused me of knee-jerking on purpose.

You ARE knee jerking, He was NOT laughing about dead people. No matter HOW badly you want him to be.

Bush's joke is still not funny in that context. And your reference to that movie, http://www.brain-terminal.com/video/...-20/index.html added to the misunderstanding, especially in regards of this thread, imo.

I was showing that Bush did not cause ANYONE to die.

I did ask you to explain to me. You did not: "watch the video" was your answer.

Yes I misunderstood. But my point is still valid, imo. Kerrry would do the same joke it would be different because he is not the one who sent troops in Iraq. But I am patient; he is going to do something silly at some point, because politicians are human beings and they all do that human thing that makes us laugh, even when it is not funny.

You need to start placing the Blame for Iraq were it belongs angaq0k.

Saddam had the ability to stop it all. He choose not to. He believed his pride was more important.

Look how prideful he looks now.

[MindFad]

Originally posted by Spheric Harlot:
I have to agree with the original post's sentiment.

I'm sure Bush and his cronies find their inability to justify the deaths of 10,000 innocent human beings highly amusing and have a great laugh over it on their way to the bank.

It looks grossly misplaced and out-of-touch to the rest of the world.

Appalling

-s*

Agreed. That's the feeling I got after reading that.

Tripe Begone™—it works, people:

[Zimphire]

Originally posted by MindFad:

[MindFad]

what

[Wiskedjak]

Originally posted by Zimphire:
[You ARE knee jerking, He was NOT laughing about dead people. No matter HOW badly you want him to be.

You're right, Bush was not laughing about dead people. He was laughing about a fruitless course of action that resulted in dead people.

[Zimphire]

Originally posted by Wiskedjak:
You're right, Bush was not laughing about dead people. He was laughing about a fruitless course of action that resulted in dead people.

Again, until start showing concern about the thousands of MORE people that died in Iraq because something WASN'T done, I just can't take your seriously.

[Wiskedjak]

Originally posted by Zimphire:
Again, until start showing concern about the thousands of MORE people that died in Iraq because something WASN'T done, I just can't take your seriously.

I might be able to take that seriously, if that was the justification for invading Iraq (the original justification, not the post-rationalization)