[Logic]

MUSLIMS DEMAND APOLOGY FOR ADL'S 'HATE-FILLED RHETORIC'
Jewish group calls Islamic declaration of faith a 'message of hate'

(WASHINGTON, D.C., 6/19/04) - The Southern California office of the Council
on American-Islamic Relations (CAIR-LA) today demanded that a prominent
national Jewish advocacy group apologize to Muslims for "hate-filled
Islamophobic rhetoric" distributed by one of its California offices.

A news release distributed Friday by the Orange County/Long Beach Regional
Office of the Anti-Defamation League of B'nai B'rith (ADL) referred to the
Islamic declaration of faith, or shahada, as an "expression of hate" that
is "closely identified" with terrorism and is "offensive to Jewish
Students." The release also said the color green, commonly associated with
the faith of Islam, "is the color of Hamas."

The shahada, "There is no god but God and Muhammad is the Messenger of
God," is the core Muslim belief in the oneness of God and is one of the
"five pillars," of Islam. No person can be a Muslim without believing in
the shahada. (Ironically, the Jewish declaration of faith, the Shema
Yisrael similarly states: "Hear O Israel, the Lord our God, the Lord is One.")

The ADL made its bigoted statements in reference to a controversy started
by right-wing and pro-Israel groups over the decision by Muslim students at
the University of California, Irvine (UCI) to wear stoles bearing the
shahada at weekend graduation ceremonies. The stoles in question also say
in Arabic: "God, increase my knowledge." Opponents falsely claim that the
stoles are an expression of support for terrorism.

SEE: "GRADUATION STOLE RAISES TENSIONS"
http://www.ocregister.com/ocr/2004/0...cle_139066.php

"UCI GRADUATION CONTROVERSY IS OVERBLOWN, MUSLIM STUDENTS SAY"
http://www.latimes.com/news/local/or...,1389155.story

"The ADL's hate-filled Islamophobic rhetoric labels all Muslims as
terrorists, because every Muslim believes in the declaration of faith as
the essence of Islam," said CAIR-LA Communications Director Sabiha Khan.
"It is truly sad that an organization that once fought for religious
tolerance has sunk to exploiting anti-Muslim ignorance and prejudice to
advance the brutal agenda of a foreign nation."

Just last month, unknown arsonists torched a UCI student display set up to
challenge the wall Israel is building on Palestinian land. The Orange
County Human Relations Commission recently released its 2003 annual report
that showed a 50 percent increase in hate incidents directed at members of
the Muslim and Arab-American community. (UCI is located in Orange County.)
In April, CAIR's own annual report on the status of American Muslim civil
rights showed a 70 percent increase in anti-Muslim incidents nationwide in
2003, with the largest number of incidents occurring in California.

There are an estimated 600,000 Muslims in Southern California. CAIR,
America's largest Islamic civil liberties group, is headquartered in
Washington, D.C., and has 28 regional offices and chapters nationwide and
in Canada.

It's a shame to see an organisation like the ADL start doing these things.

Discuss!

[eklipse]

: waits for apologists to enter :

[lil'babykitten]

Not at all surprising.

[Logic]

LET'S SILENCE THIS TO DEATH!

[BRussell]

Originally posted by eklipse:
: waits for apologists to enter :

I thought an apology was what was being demanded?

MUSLIMS DEMAND APOLOGY FOR ADL'S 'HATE-FILLED RHETORIC'

Anyway, I'd like to see this supposedly hate-filled ADL news release. I looked on ADL's site and couldn't find it.

[PacHead]

CAIR is fond of terrorists, and they're also full of crap. I wouldn't take anything they whine about to be serious, nor do I trust them.

And logic, if you want a link, as you always ask me for, I've already discussed CAIR and provided info in a previous thread, so I'm not going to give one.

[Logic]

Originally posted by PacHead:
CAIR is fond of terrorists, and they're also full of crap. I wouldn't take anything they whine about to be serious, nor do I trust them.

And logic, if you want a link, as you always ask me for, I've already discussed CAIR and provided info in a previous thread, so I'm not going to give one.

All those words and not one single thing about the topic at hand. Great Job!

Any chance that you are a politician?

[PacHead]

Originally posted by Logic:
All those words and not one single thing about the topic at hand. Great Job!

Any chance that you are a politician?

Not about the topic at hand ? Is not CAIR part of the topic ? Do you expect me to believe a group that is supportive of terrorists ?

And you can be glad I'm not a politician. If I were in charge of things, I would make George Bush look like a lightweight, regarding the WOT.

[PacHead]

Oh, and regarding the topic at hand, so this is about those idiots who wanted to honor Hamas at their graduation ceremony huh ?

Well, the CAIR organisation should demand an apology from Fox News also, because they reported the exact same things on their news channel.

And it takes pretty big balls for anybody to demand an apology from somebody who's pointing out that somebody is advocating terrorism.

Let them sue Fox News, if they feel they have been slandered.

[Logic]

Originally posted by PacHead:
Oh, and regarding the topic at hand, so this is about those idiots who wanted to honor Hamas at their graduation ceremony huh ?

Well, the CAIR organisation should demand an apology from Fox News also, because they reported the exact same things on their news channel.

And it takes pretty big balls for anybody to demand an apology from somebody who's pointing out that somebody is advocating terrorism.

Let them sue Fox News, if they feel they have been slandered.

Did you bother reading what was on the stoles?

There was absolutely nothing there that supports Hamas or terrorism.

[Logic]

Originally posted by PacHead:
Not about the topic at hand ? Is not CAIR part of the topic ? Do you expect me to believe a group that is supportive of terrorists ?

And you can be glad I'm not a politician. If I were in charge of things, I would make George Bush look like a lightweight, regarding the WOT.

The topic at hand is that the ADL is accusing the Shahada and muslim students of supporting terrorism. Try reading the articles in the first post.

[itai195]

Originally posted by BRussell:
I thought an apology was what was being demanded?

Anyway, I'd like to see this supposedly hate-filled ADL news release. I looked on ADL's site and couldn't find it.

That's also why I didn't respond, I couldn't find the release.

[Logic]

Originally posted by itai195:
That's also why I didn't respond, I couldn't find the release.

I'm trying to find it but from the reports it seems like there was some kind of statement from the regional office of ADL.

"To suggest there is only [a religious] meaning is disingenuous at best," said Kevin S. O'Grady, an associate regional director with the Anti-Defamation League, who attended the news conference.

http://www.latimes.com/news/local/or...ditions-orange

[PacHead]

Originally posted by Logic:
The topic at hand is that the ADL is accusing the Shahada and muslim students of supporting terrorism. Try reading the articles in the first post.

Yes, I read it, and they also said on Fox News that those green sashes or whatever they wanted to wear are identical to the green ones that you see the Hamas idiots wear. If it looks like a Nazi and smells like a Nazi, then hey: Guess what, it's a . . . . . .

[PacHead]

Originally posted by Logic:


http://www.latimes.com/news/local/or...ditions-orange

Requires registration, making it pretty useless.

[Logic]

American Jewish Congress

Still looking for more on it.

[itai195]

Originally posted by Logic:
I'm trying to find it but from the reports it seems like there was some kind of statement from the regional office of ADL.

http://www.latimes.com/news/local/or...ditions-orange

In the absence of a press release, I'd say that to me it sounds like this resulted from the ignorance and distrust that currently breeds itself on UC campuses. But what can I say, this is what we should expect when student groups would rather resort to hyperbole, offensive protests, and accusatory rhetoric rather than dialogue. I haven't yet seen any evidence implicating the ADL outside of that little quote from O'Grady (an Irish Jew? ), which itself was devoid of context and not equivalent to a press release.

[Logic]

Originally posted by PacHead:
Requires registration, making it pretty useless.

THE REGION


UCI Graduation Controversy Is Overblown, Muslim Students Say


Arabic on stoles to be worn over gowns praises God, the group says. Critics say Hamas militants wear similar items.
By Daniel Yi
Times Staff Writer

June 19, 2004

A UC Irvine Muslim student group on Friday denounced critics who accused the organization of planning to show support for terrorists by wearing Islamic stoles at today's commencement ceremony.

"I think it is ridiculous that something so minimal has been made into a national issue," Osman Umarji, president of the Muslim Student Union, said during a news conference at the Irvine campus.

The student group and the university came under the media spotlight this week when Fox News host Bill O'Reilly said on his program that UC Irvine Muslim students would wear stoles — strips of cloth over their gowns — "apparently signifying their support for the terrorist group Hamas and for suicide bombers in general."

The stoles bear white Arabic lettering that reads, "There is no God but Allah, and Muhammad is his messenger," and "God, increase my knowledge," the Muslim students say.

Hamas militants are often seen in green headbands and similar stoles, critics of the Muslim student group say.

"To suggest there is only [a religious] meaning is disingenuous at best," said Kevin S. O'Grady, an associate regional director with the Anti-Defamation League, who attended the news conference.

But Umarji and other Muslim leaders say that to equate their faith with support for radical groups is not only unfair, it is dangerous.

"We fear what might happen next," said Umarji, who was wearing a stole. "Will I be a target because of my beard? Or will a woman wearing a scarf?"

The 22-year-old junior, who will not be part of today's graduation ceremonies, said about 15 students are expected to wear the stoles. "It is a symbol of unity" among Muslim students, said Umarji. "Bill O'Reilly doesn't state the facts. He makes up lies as he goes along."

University officials have already said that they will respect the students' 1st Amendment rights and allow them to wear the bands. They pointed out that Muslim students wore stoles at graduation ceremonies last year at UC Irvine, UCLA and UC Berkeley without incident.

But the controversy demonstrates the level of distrust at the Irvine campus that Muslim, Jewish and pro-Israel students feel toward one another.

Last month, a campus display put up by the Society of Arab Students was burned down. It had depicted the controversial wall Israel is building to keep out Palestinian suicide bombers.

Merav Ceren, president of Anteaters for Israel, which uses UC Irvine's mascot as part of its name, said Friday that a Holocaust memorial on campus had been similarly destroyed.

"You worry about your safety after a while," said Ceren, who spoke to reporters after the Muslim Student Union news conference.

She was surrounded by Muslim students who watched her and shook their heads in disapproval.

[PacHead]

All I know is, if those sashes or whatever they want to wear are identical to what these idiots are wearing, then I simply don't believe a word they're saying, and I consider them terrorist supporters.

[Logic]

Got it in an e-mail from ADL.

News
ADL
Anti-Defamation League
Orange County/Long Beach Regional Office
Kevin S. O'Grady, Ed.D.
Associate Regional Director

FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE

ADL CONDEMNS THE WEARING OF SYMBOL THAT
CAN SIGNAL SUPPORT OF HAMAS AT GRADUATION

June 18, 2004 ... The Anti-Defamation League is deeply troubled that members of the University of
California, Irvine Muslim Students Union have chosen to wear a green graduation stole bearing the Shahada, a declaration of faith that has been closely identified with Palestinian terrorists.

"We are troubled that members of the Muslim Students Union have chosen to display symbolism that is closely identified with Palestinian terrorist groups and that can be especially offensive to Jewish students," said Kevin O'Grady, ADL Orange County Associate Director. "This is part of an ongoing pattern of vicious anti-Israel and anti-Semitic incidents on the UC-Irvine campus, many perpetuated by the Muslim Students Union.

"We again call on members of the administration to finally speak out against such expressions of hate on the campus," said Mr. O'Grady. "As long as the university chooses to ignore hate and bigotry on campus, instead of standing up to reject it, the community will continue to be torn by tension and mistrust."

Green is the color of Hamas, and its activists and prospective suicide bombers wear the Shahada, a declaration of faith, on green armbands and headbands. The Shahada has come to represent, in radical Muslim circles, support for martyrdom and terrorist groups.

Over the past several months, the UCI Muslim Student Union has invited speakers to campus who have made public declarations of support for Hamas, advocated suicide bombings and called for the destruction of Israel.




The Anti-Defamation League, founded in 1913, is the world's leading organization fighting anti-Semitism through programs and services that counteract hatred, prejudice and bigotry.

[Logic]

Originally posted by PacHead:
All I know is, if those sashes or whatever they want to wear are identical to what these idiots are wearing, then I simply don't believe a word they're saying, and I consider them terrorist supporters.

Green is the colour of Islam.

The shahada is the declaration of faith.

Should muslims stop using those two because of what some terrorists do?

[PacHead]

Originally posted by Logic:
Green is the colour of Islam.

The shahada is the declaration of faith.

Should muslims stop using those two because of what some terrorists do?

Yes. If they don't want to be accused of being terrorists, then don't dress like one.

[eklipse]

Originally posted by PacHead:
All I know is, if those sashes or whatever they want to wear are identical to what these idiots are wearing, then I simply don't believe a word they're saying, and I consider them terrorist supporters.

There you have it folks: if someone wears something green with Arabic script on it, they are either a terrorist or a terrorist supporter AND MUST BE TAKEN DOWN!

How do you propose we deal with all these potential 'fashion-terrorists'?

Chucking them in a lake and seeing if they float? Burning at the stake?

[Logic]

Originally posted by PacHead:
Yes. If they don't want to be accused of being terrorists, then don't dress like one.

Well you better start telling Christians to stop wearing crosses, or Jews to stop wearing Yarmulke's etc etc.

And then you should tell Jews to stop using their declaration of faith, and Christians to stop using their prayers etc.......

Are you going to do that?

Or are you going to be a bigot?


La ilaha il Allah, Muhammad-ur-Rasool-Allah

[PacHead]

Originally posted by eklipse:
There you have it folks: if someone wears something green with Arabic script on it, they are either a terrorist or a terrorist supporter AND MUST BE TAKEN DOWN!

No, it's not just some "arabic" script on it. The allegations are that it is the same writing that the hamas lowlifes wear. If this is true, then yes, I consider them terrorist supporters, and I don't trust them.

[PacHead]

Originally posted by Logic:
Well you better start telling Christians to stop wearing crosses, or Jews to stop wearing Yarmulke's etc etc.

And then you should tell Jews to stop using their declaration of faith, and Christians to stop using their prayers etc.......

Are you going to do that?

Or are you going to be a bigot?


La ilaha il Allah, Muhammad-ur-Rasool-Allah

If I saw somebody wearing a KKK hood at some graduation, I would be against that also, I can assure you.

[Logic]

Originally posted by PacHead:
No, it's not just some "arabic" script on it. The allegations are that it is the same writing that the hamas lowlifes wear. If this is true, then yes, I consider them terrorist supporters, and I don't trust them.

So you consider 1.4 billion people terrorist supporters?

Do you even know what the Shahada is?

[Logic]

Originally posted by PacHead:
If I saw somebody wearing a KKK hood at some graduation, I would be against that also, I can assure you.

But not a cross or a Yarmulke?

[PacHead]

Originally posted by Logic:
So you consider 1.4 billion people terrorist supporters?

Do you even know what the Shahada is?

Well, I haven't seen any muslims in my neighborhood wear any green hamas looking sashes or headbands. If I did, I would stay away from them, yes.

[MindFad]

I saw a bunch of Klan guys once burning a cross and terrorizing and killing black folks once. Them damn racist, terrorist Christians. For shame.

[Logic]

Originally posted by PacHead:
Well, I haven't seen any muslims in my neighborhood wear any green hamas looking sashes or headbands. If I did, I would stay away from them, yes.

Why do you dodge the question about the crosses and the Yarmulkes?

[itai195]

I wouldn't say that release is as inflammatory as the CAIR press release makes it out to be. Sounds like the ADL is concerned that it's part of a larger pattern of behavior, and they're overreacting out of fear. They should know better.

At the same time, I also don't think Muslim student groups at UC campuses have any moral high ground here. One can hardly show support for Israel on campus without being called a racist or any number of other names.

EDIT: BTW, Jews who wear skullcaps in Berkeley are often met with jeers.

[Logic]

Originally posted by itai195:
I wouldn't say that release is as inflammatory as the CAIR press release makes it out to be. Sounds like the ADL is concerned that it's part of a larger pattern of behavior, and they're overreacting out of fear. They should know better.

At the same time, I also don't think Muslim student groups at UC campuses have any moral high ground here. One can hardly show support for Israel on campus without being called a racist or any number of other names.

EDIT: BTW, Jews who wear skullcaps in Berkeley are often met with jeers.

You don't find this inflammatory?

"We are troubled that members of the Muslim Students Union have chosen to display symbolism that is closely identified with Palestinian terrorist groups and that can be especially offensive to Jewish students,"

And I condemn it that people act that way to Jews. That is probably the difference between me and many of the macnn posters......

[BRussell]

Originally posted by Logic:
Green is the colour of Islam.

The shahada is the declaration of faith.

Should muslims stop using those two because of what some terrorists do?

Is this specific thing that these students are going to wear something that Muslims in general wear - i.e., is it analogous to a yarmulke? Or is this something that Islamic suicide bombers wear? I certainly don't have any problem with students wearing crosses or stars of david or yarmulkes, and I don't have a problem with muslim women wearing head coverings. But if they're wearing something that is specifically associated with violence, and is not part of the mainstream of your religion, then that's different.

[itai195]

Originally posted by Logic:
You don't find this inflammatory?

"We are troubled that members of the Muslim Students Union have chosen to display symbolism that is closely identified with Palestinian terrorist groups and that can be especially offensive to Jewish students,"

The fact of the matter is that it is closely identified with terrorist groups. The ADL certainly isn't doing much to help dispel that perception, and it sounds to me like they are overreacting and spreading ignorance when they should know better. I didn't say that statement isn't inflammatory, it just didn't come across as hatefully as the CAIR release led me to expect. Obviously it is inflammatory if it offended so many reasonable people.

[Logic]

Originally posted by BRussell:
Is this specific thing that these students are going to wear something that Muslims in general wear - i.e., is it analogous to a yarmulke? Or is this something that Islamic suicide bombers wear? I certainly don't have any problem with students wearing crosses or stars of david or yarmulkes, and I don't have a problem with muslim women wearing head coverings. But if they're wearing something that is specifically associated with violence, and is not part of the mainstream of your religion, then that's different.

If I understand the US graduation correctly many wear stoles that show something about them. Am I right?

That they choose the colour they did is because of it's importance in Islam. It's the Islamic colour if you can say that. Just look at the Saudi Arabian flag. The text, the Shahada, is the declaration of faith that every single Muslim must know and recite. The other text on the stole was a verse from the Quran asking God for help in increasing our knowledge.

So yes, this is similar to the Yarmulkes and Cross. It's also similar to the Jewish declaration of faith and the main Christian prayers and what it's called.

Islamic suicide bombers do wear this, but this is one of the things they are highjacking from Islam. This has existed long before the intifada began and is of vital importance to Islam.

[PacHead]

Originally posted by Logic:
Why do you dodge the question about the crosses and the Yarmulkes?

Nobody's dodging anything. I don't believe those green things they're wearing are a normal muslim attire. I've never seen it before, except when seeing pictures of those lunatic suicide bomber wannabes and other terrorists.

When you dress like you belong in a Hamas demonstration in the Gaza strip or something, don't be surprised if people will get suspicious.

[Logic]

Originally posted by itai195:
The fact of the matter is that it is closely identified with terrorist groups. The ADL certainly isn't doing much to help dispel that perception, and it sounds to me like they are overreacting and spreading ignorance when they should know better. I didn't say that statement isn't inflammatory, it just didn't come across as hatefully as the CAIR release led me to expect.

Well I can tell you that the 1.4 Muslims in the world consider this hateful and inflammatory. That a group who should and has been fighting for religious tolerance and religious freedom does this is a disgrace. To say that the Shahada is something identified with terrorist groups is very inflammatory, just like any Christian would say that linking the Cross to terrorism is highly inflammatory.

[itai195]

Originally posted by Logic:
Well I can tell you that the 1.4 Muslims in the world consider this hateful and inflammatory. That a group who should and has been fighting for religious tolerance and religious freedom does this is a disgrace. To say that the Shahada is something identified with terrorist groups is very inflammatory, just like any Christian would say that linking the Cross to terrorism is highly inflammatory.

Unfortunately that's the perception that exists, and it's what happens when symbols are hijacked by extremists. History is full of examples -- an outfit very similar to the KKK's is used in a Catholic festival in Spain, and the swastika used to be a symbol of peace. I agree that the ADL should be above such things, they seem to have placed fear above principles on this occasion.

[Logic]

Originally posted by PacHead:
Nobody's dodging anything. I don't believe those green things they're wearing are a normal muslim attire. I've never seen it before, except when seeing pictures of those lunatic suicide bomber wannabes and other terrorists.

When you dress like you belong in a Hamas demonstration in the Gaza strip or something, don't be surprised if people will get suspicious.

This is just pure ignorance. I'm sorry but it is.

It isn't a normal Muslim attire, but it is used at special occasions. Green is the colour of Islam. It's not as important as the Cross in Christianity but serves a similar purpose.

That some member of a religion use some of it's symbols should not be a reason enough to ban that symbol for all other members of that religion.

And they aren't dressing like they would in a Hamas demonstration. This is what it looks like.



Are you really that islamophobic that you consider that a threat to you?

[Logic]

Originally posted by itai195:
Unfortunately that's the perception that exists, and it's what happens when symbols are hijacked by extremists. History is full of examples -- an outfit very similar to the KKK's is used in a Catholic festival in Spain, and the swastika used to be a symbol of peace. I agree that the ADL should be above such things, they seem to have placed fear above principles on this occasion.

Yup, and that is why I decided to post this. That some people would find this a threat shouldn't surprise anyone, but that a respected organisation like the ADL would play along and "fuel the fire" is very disheartening. That an organisation like the ADL would label 1.4 million people terrorists like this is disgusting.

[PacHead]

Originally posted by Logic:
This is just pure ignorance. I'm sorry but it is.

It isn't a normal Muslim attire, but it is used at special occasions. Green is the colour of Islam. It's not as important as the Cross in Christianity but serves a similar purpose.

That some member of a religion use some of it's symbols should not be a reason enough to ban that symbol for all other members of that religion.

And they aren't dressing like they would in a Hamas demonstration. This is what it looks like.



Are you really that islamophobic that you consider that a threat to you?

Well, that is not what the sashes looked like that they showed on tv. If the picture you linked to are what they were going to wear, then that is a slightly different story.

However, if it looks like the hamas ones, then I stand by what I wrote.

[Logic]

Originally posted by PacHead:
Well, that is not what the sashes looked like that they showed on tv. If the picture you linked to are what they were going to wear, then that is a slightly different story.

However, if it looks like the hamas ones, then I stand by what I wrote.

What did they show on TV? As you probably know I don't get too many American stations

Everything I've read about it shows that pic or something similar.

But if this is the one, don't you agree that it is serious overreaction by the ADL?

[itai195]

Originally posted by PacHead:
Well, that is not what the sashes looked like that they showed on tv. If the picture you linked to are what they were going to wear, then that is a slightly different story.

However, if it looks like the hamas ones, then I stand by what I wrote.

That's what all stoles look like. As a matter of fact I think some people did wear those at my graduation, tho I can't recall exactly. I'm surprised that apparently they do this at UC Berkeley and UCLA yet it's Irvine that aroused a reaction, when Irvine receives almost no attention (sorry anteaters ).

[AKcrab]

I thought one wore what the school told you to wear, so everyone looks the same in the ceremony?

I have absolutely no problem with the color, or the slogan, but can *all* the graduating students modify the "graduation outfit" however they desire?

[BRussell]

Originally posted by Logic:
If I understand the US graduation correctly many wear stoles that show something about them. Am I right?

I don't think it's very common, no. People have different colors for different majors, or extra ropes for high grades, but in my experience I've never seen students wear these kinds of things to signify a religion. Maybe it is common and I'm just not aware of it.

That they choose the colour they did is because of it's importance in Islam. It's the Islamic colour if you can say that. Just look at the Saudi Arabian flag. The text, the Shahada, is the declaration of faith that every single Muslim must know and recite. The other text on the stole was a verse from the Quran asking God for help in increasing our knowledge.

So yes, this is similar to the Yarmulkes and Cross. It's also similar to the Jewish declaration of faith and the main Christian prayers and what it's called.

Islamic suicide bombers do wear this, but this is one of the things they are highjacking from Islam. This has existed long before the intifada began and is of vital importance to Islam.

Your statement seems mixed. You say that suicide bombers wear this - do others wear this too? Can you show any evidence that it's common among non-terrorists? If this is similar to the yarmulke, then I agree with you, and O'Reilly and O'Grady are wrong. But if this is something that was basically popularized by suicide "martyrs," and no one else wears this, then I think it was probably intentional on the part of these students to show their support for terrorists.

[itai195]

Originally posted by AKcrab:
I thought one wore what the school told you to wear, so everyone looks the same in the ceremony?

I have absolutely no problem with the color, or the slogan, but can *all* the graduating students modify the "graduation outfit" however they desire?

No they can't generally modify the rest of the outfit. They can wear stoles and ropes if they are members of a fraternity, honor society, or a student group or have won an award. It sounds like this stole is offered to members of a student group.

[Spliffdaddy]

Originally posted by Logic:
So you consider 1.4 billion people terrorist supporters?

Until one of them says otherwise, yes.

So far, all the muslims I've known seem to be terrorist supporters.

[Millennium]

Originally posted by Spliffdaddy:
Until one of them says otherwise, yes.

So far, all the muslims I've known seem to be terrorist supporters.

I don't know about you, Spliff, but in my opinion the Muslims on this board have already more than adequately demonstrated that they don't support what the pseudo-Muslim terrorists in the Middle East are doing. If you would like me to dig up links I can do so. As far as the incidents I'm concerned with go, they probably didn't realize they were demonstrating disagreement, but that's the best way; it's what you do when you're not trying to demonstrate something that really counts.

Ahem. This is most definitely hypocrisy on the ADL's part, but frankly this is nothing new. ADL, CAIR, and similar organizations seem to love pointing out corruption in every faith but the one they claim to serve. In truth, the Islamic declaration of faith is no more hate-filled than the many common declarations of faith I've come across for any monotheistic religion. Some might say that any statement of disagreement with other faith is "hate-filled", but I think this is basically a case of terminal insecurity.

Islam's statement of faith does include a statement of disagreement with other religions; the statement 'there is no god but Allah' ensures that. But disagreement is not hate by any means. The most common Jewish and Christian statements of faith carry similar statements of disagreement.

[Logic]

Well, ADL just earned a few points back.

ADL ISSUES APOLOGY FOR 'SHAHADA' COMMENTS
Jewish advocacy group says it is 'respectful of Shahada'

(WASHINGTON, D.C., 6/23/04) - A prominent national Jewish advocacy group
has issued an apology for remarks in a news release that seemed to link the
Islamic declaration of faith, or "shahada," with terrorism.

The Anti-Defamation League (ADL) made its apology yesterday in a news
release that stated: "(The ADL) is respectful of the Shahada, the Muslim
Declaration of Faith, which is expressed by millions of Muslims around the
world…It was never our intent to offend anyone and we apologize to those
who took offense."

On Saturday, the Southern California office of the Council on
American-Islamic Relations (CAIR-LA) demanded that the ADL apologize to
Muslims for "hate-filled Islamophobic rhetoric" distributed by one of its
California offices.

A news release distributed by the ADL's Orange County/Long Beach Regional
Office referred to the Islamic declaration of faith, or shahada, as an
"expression of hate" that is "closely identified" with terrorism and is
"offensive to Jewish Students."

The shahada, "There is no god but God and Muhammad is the Messenger of
God," is the core Muslim belief in the oneness of God and is one of the
"five pillars" of Islam. No person can be a Muslim without believing in the
shahada.

The ADL made its original offensive statements in reference to a
controversy started by right-wing and pro-Israel groups over the decision
by Muslim students at the University of California, Irvine (UCI) to wear
stoles bearing the shahada at weekend graduation ceremonies. The stoles in
question also said in Arabic: "God, increase my knowledge." Opponents
falsely claimed that the stoles are an expression of support for terrorism.

SEE: "GRADUATION STOLE RAISES TENSIONS"
http://www.ocregister.com/ocr/2004/0...article_139066
.php

"UCI GRADUATION CONTROVERSY IS OVERBLOWN, MUSLIM STUDENTS SAY"
http://www.latimes.com/news/local/or...,1389155.story

"We hope this apology represents a change of heart on the part of the ADL
and will lead to a genuine attitude of respect and constructive
interaction," said CAIR-LA Executive Director Hussam Ayloush. Ayloush said
his group would be willing to offer Islamic sensitivity training for ADL
staffers.

Just last month, unknown arsonists torched a UCI student display set up to
challenge the wall Israel is building on Palestinian land.

There are an estimated 600,000 Muslims in Southern California. CAIR,
America's largest Islamic civil liberties group, is headquartered in
Washington, D.C., and has 28 regional offices and chapters nationwide and
in Canada.

The question is if the American press will do the same. It would be nice if you could report what the press, and especially O'Reilly, do now.