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Zimphire · Jun 23, 2004, 11:30 PM

JEFFERSON CITY, Mo. (AP) -- A Democratic group crucial to John Kerry's presidential campaign has paid felons - some convicted of sex offenses, assault and burglary - to conduct door-to-door voter registration drives in at least three election swing states.

America Coming Together, contending that convicted criminals deserve a second chance in society, employs felons as voter canvassers in major metropolitan areas in Missouri, Florida, Ohio and perhaps in other states among the 17 it is targeting in its drive. Some lived in halfway houses, and at least four returned to prison.

ACT canvassers ask residents which issues are important to them and, if they are not registered, sign them up as voters. They gather telephone numbers and other personal information, such as driver's license numbers or partial Social Security numbers, depending on what a state requires for voter registration.

Felons on probation or parole are ineligible to vote in many states. Doug Lewis, executive director of the Election Center, which represents election officials, said he is unaware of any laws against felons registering others to vote.

A review of federal campaign finance and state criminal records by The Associated Press revealed that the names and hometowns of dozens of ACT employees in Missouri, Florida and Ohio matched those of people convicted of crimes such as burglary, forgery, drug dealing, assault and sex offenses.

Although it works against the re-election of President Bush, ACT is an independent group not affiliated with Kerry's campaign - federal law forbids such coordination. Yet ACT is stocked with veteran Democratic political operatives, many with past ties to Kerry and his advisers.

Allison Dobson, a spokeswoman with the Kerry campaign, said there is no coordination with ACT, and of the policy: "We're unaware of it and have nothing to do with it."

Continued...

Secret__Police · Jun 23, 2004, 11:38 PM

zachs · Jun 23, 2004, 11:39 PM

In other news, our President is a convicted criminal.

BlackGriffen · Jun 23, 2004, 11:40 PM

Canvassing is good, honest work, if somewhat sales like. What, you don't want these people to be rehabilitated?

BlackGriffen

Zimphire · Jun 23, 2004, 11:51 PM

Would you want convicted criminals and pedophiles going door to door in your neighborhood getting your personal information?

They aren't doing it to be nice.

They are doing it because it's CHEAPER.

Zimphire · Jun 23, 2004, 11:53 PM

Originally posted by The Apologists

Both of your predictable responses.

If this had anything tied to Bush, you'd be all over it.

BlackGriffen · Jun 23, 2004, 11:57 PM

Originally posted by Zimphire:
Would you want convicted criminals and pedophiles going door to door in your neighborhood getting your personal information?

They aren't doing it to be nice.

They are doing it because it's CHEAPER.

Depends on the information. Name & address is hardly guarded personal information.

BG

CD Hanks · Jun 24, 2004, 02:41 AM

Originally posted by Zimphire:
If this had anything tied to Bush, you'd be all over it.

And this is why you'll get stonewalled.

Sucks, I know.

MindFad · Jun 24, 2004, 03:05 AM

Originally posted by CD Hanks:
And this is why you'll get stonewalled.

This thread is officially Stonewalled.

Logic · Jun 24, 2004, 04:05 AM

Originally posted by Zimphire:
They are doing it because it's CHEAPER.

And?

Lerkfish · 07:22 PM

removed by request

gatekeeper · Jun 24, 2004, 08:16 AM

Originally posted by Zimphire:
Allison Dobson, a spokeswoman with the Kerry campaign, said there is no coordination with ACT, and of the policy: "We're unaware of it and have nothing to do with it."

Lerkfish · 07:22 PM

removed by request

zachs · Jun 24, 2004, 09:28 AM

Originally posted by Zimphire:
If this had anything tied to Bush, you'd be all over it.

This isn't even tied to Kerry...

Logic · Jun 24, 2004, 09:29 AM

Originally posted by zachs:
This isn't even tied to Kerry...

Poor Bushies are getting desperate

zachs · Jun 24, 2004, 09:44 AM

Originally posted by Logic:
Poor Bushies are getting desperate

It almost makes you feel bad.

NOT!

Zimphire · Jun 24, 2004, 10:48 AM

Originally posted by Lerkfish:
conveniently, this part of the article is not quoted by Zim:

Over half the article isn't quoted by me Sherlock. That above is indeed though.

Zimphire · Jun 24, 2004, 10:52 AM

Originally posted by zachs:
This isn't even tied to Kerry...

A Democratic group crucial to John Kerry's presidential campaign

Although it works against the re-election of President Bush, ACT is an independent group not affiliated with Kerry's campaign - federal law forbids such coordination. Yet ACT is stocked with veteran Democratic political operatives, many with past ties to Kerry and his advisers.

Uhuh..

Zimphire · Jun 24, 2004, 10:53 AM

Originally posted by Logic:
Poor Bushies are getting desperate

Naw the poor Kerries are trying to scramble to make this look kosher.

And it would be painful to watch, if it wasn't so darn predictable.

zachs · Jun 24, 2004, 10:55 AM

Originally posted by Zimphire:
Uhuh..

I'll use your same quote:

Although it works against the re-election of President Bush, ACT is an independent group not affiliated with Kerry's campaign - federal law forbids such coordination. Yet ACT is stocked with veteran Democratic political operatives, many with past ties to Kerry and his advisers.

Zimphire · Jun 24, 2004, 11:00 AM

zach it's not "affiliated" meaning it's not a member of Kerry's "committee"

But there are indeed STRONG TIES to Kerry with this group.

You don't have to be affiliated to "Help the guy out"

I mean you aren't affiliated with Kerry, but you do enough apologizing for the guy. You should be put on his payroll if you aren't already.

I just hope the Dems don't start handing out cartons of cigarettes to get votes this time around.

zachs · Jun 24, 2004, 11:08 AM

Originally posted by Zimphire:
zach it's not "affiliated" meaning it's not a member of Kerry's "committee"

But there are indeed STRONG TIES to Kerry with this group.

You don't have to be affiliated to "Help the guy out"

I mean you aren't affiliated with Kerry, but you do enough apologizing for the guy. You should be put on his payroll if you aren't already.

Psssst: The point is, Kerry and his campaign don't control what ACT does. If ACT hires felons, that has nothing at all to do with Kerry.

You're making a guilt-by-association argument, and, frankly, it doesn't hold up.

I just hope the Dems don't start handing out cartons of cigarettes to get votes this time around.

is right...

Zimphire · Jun 24, 2004, 11:26 AM

Originally posted by zachs:
Psssst: The point is, Kerry and his campaign don't control what ACT does. If ACT hires felons, that has nothing at all to do with Kerry.

Not directly no. But they are doing this to help Kerry. Kerry knows what they are doing. They are buddies of Kerry doing this. Don't think for a second they aren't getting something out of it.

You're making a guilt-by-association argument, and, frankly, it doesn't hold up.

Not to you it doesn't. I expect that. But I will remember your disproval of "guilt-by-association"

is right...

is indeed right.

"Lets help the homeless man get cancer while we get more votes!"

Esp after that campaign they had against the tobacco industries.

zachs · Jun 24, 2004, 11:33 AM

Originally posted by Zimphire:
Not directly no. But they are doing this to help Kerry. Kerry knows what they are doing. They are buddies of Kerry doing this. Don't think for a second they aren't getting something out of it.

Everyone knows what they're doing.

Not to you it doesn't. I expect that. But I will remember your disproval of "guilt-by-association"

Uhhh...OK...

is indeed right.

"Lets help the homeless man get cancer while we get more votes!"

Esp after that campaign they had against the tobacco industries.

You mean that one woman who gave out cigarettes to, what, 15 people?

Zimphire · Jun 24, 2004, 11:42 AM

Originally posted by zachs:
Everyone knows what they're doing.

How does that change anything? What a spin

Uhhh...OK...

You know, the next time you bash Bush just because he is associated with someone.

You mean that one woman who gave out cigarettes to, what, 15 people?

Funny, I heard it was more than that.

Keep the apologetic spins coming.

zachs · Jun 24, 2004, 11:46 AM

Originally posted by Zimphire:
How does that change anything? What a spin

Spin? No. Just because Kerry heard about it doesn't mean anything.

You know, the next time you bash Bush just because he is associated with someone.

Sure, OK.

Funny, I heard it was more than that.

Keep the apologetic spins coming.

I heard otherwise.

Donahoo said an ongoing investigation has found that 15 to 25 homeless men may have been recruited to cast absentee ballots at Milwaukee City Hall the Saturday before the election

[...]

Connie Milstein, a New York philanthropist and major Democratic donor, was taped the Saturday before the election saying she was helping homeless men vote at the behest of the Gore campaign. She has issued a statement since then saying she acted on her own without guidance from Democrats or the Gore campaign.

See Zimph, it's you who's spinning.

Zimphire · Jun 24, 2004, 11:52 AM

Originally posted by zachs:
Spin? No. Just because Kerry heard about it doesn't mean anything.

His buddies are doing this. I am sure he more than just "heard" about it. You are again "spinning"

I heard otherwise.

See Zimph, it's you who's spinning.

Yeah I am SURE she is going to admit to more doing it. Or admit she was told to. SHe was the only one caught zachs. The people that reported this going on said there was more than that going around. She took the hit.

This is also funny

______ The fact that no Democrat insider backed Gore is proof positive that they KNOW Gore lost the election._ Even with illegal aliens and Democrat felons voting, Milwaukee derelicts bribed with cigarettes by New York limousine liberals, Philadelphia inner city precincts producing an unbelievable 100 percent turnout, a St. Louis Democrat judge keeping inner city districts open and voting until midnight, and the dead voting in almost every Democrat district--they still lost.

They will do anything to get votes. Honest or not.

zachs · Jun 24, 2004, 11:54 AM

Originally posted by Zimphire:
His buddies are doing this. I am sure he more than just "heard" about it. You are again "spinning"

What has he done, more than just "heard" about it?

Yeah I am SURE she is going to admit to more doing it. Or admit she was told to. SHe was the only one caught zachs. The people that reported this going on said there was more than that going around. She took the hit.

I'm not even going to discuss this with you anymore.

Zimphire · Jun 24, 2004, 11:55 AM

Of course you aren't. You've run out of excuses.

zachs · Jun 24, 2004, 11:58 AM

Originally posted by Zimphire:
Of course you aren't. You've run out of excuses.

No, because you'll NEVER accept it! You just cannot accept the fact that you were wrong about it (while making an irrelevant point, I might add.) I really wouldn't care, except you added the "Keep the apologetic spins coming."

Zimphire · Jun 24, 2004, 12:02 PM

Originally posted by zachs:
No, because you'll NEVER accept it! You just cannot accept the fact that you were wrong about it (while making an irrelevant point, I might add.) I really wouldn't care, except you added the "Keep the apologetic spins coming."

I was wrong? What was I wrong about zach?

Kerry knows it's going on.

The people who are doing this are Kerry's buddies

They are doing it to help Kerry.

Which one of those above is wrong? Please tell me.

zachs · Jun 24, 2004, 12:04 PM

Originally posted by Zimphire:
I was wrong? What was I wrong about zach?

Kerry knows it's going on.

The people who are doing this are Kerry's buddies

They are doing it to help Kerry.

Which one of those above is wrong? Please tell me.

Zimph, you know full well I was talking about Connie Milstein and the cigarettes.

Zimphire · Jun 24, 2004, 12:06 PM

Originally posted by zachs:
Zimph, you know full well I was talking about Connie Milstein and the cigarettes.

No, actually I didn't. I still believed you were talking about the topic at hand.

All I said was the people that were there reported that there was more than one person doing this. Connie took the fall.

Do you really think she thought 10-15 people would make a difference enough to break the law like she did?

zachs · Jun 24, 2004, 12:10 PM

Originally posted by Zimphire:
No, actually I didn't. I still believed you were talking about the topic at hand.

All I said was the people that were there reported that there was more than one person doing this. Connie took the fall.

Yep. Two.

zachs · Jun 24, 2004, 12:11 PM

Originally posted by Zimphire:
Do you really think she thought 10-15 people would make a difference enough to break the law like she did?

How would I know? If she was smart, she wouldn't broken the law at all.

Zimphire · Jun 24, 2004, 12:12 PM

They claimed a group of people were doing it. Not just two.

That is why she was questioned about more.

She took the fall for the rest of them.

She and she a lone wouldn't have went out of her way to break the law just for 10 lousy votes.

But at least you stopped trying to defend the original topic.

zachs · Jun 24, 2004, 12:14 PM

Originally posted by Zimphire:
They claimed a group of people were doing it. Not just two.

That is why she was questioned about more.

She took the fall for the rest of them.

She and she a lone wouldn't have went out of her way to break the law just for 10 lousy votes.

But at least you stopped trying to defend the original topic.

OK, let's get back on topic.

Kerry knows about this. So. What?

Zimphire · Jun 24, 2004, 12:19 PM

Of course "so what"

His pals and buddies are the ones doing it. He more than just "knows" about it zach.

He certainly isn't trying to get them to stop now is he?

zachs · Jun 24, 2004, 12:24 PM

Originally posted by Zimphire:
Of course "so what"

His pals and buddies are the ones doing it. He more than just "knows" about it zach.

He certainly isn't trying to get them to stop now is he?

Give me a BREAK!

You do realize he doesn't have control over them, don't you?

Anything to bash Kerry, I guess.

BlackGriffen · Jun 24, 2004, 12:26 PM

Originally posted by Zimphire:
He certainly isn't trying to get them to stop now is he?

Legally, he can't. He isn't allowed to coordinate, remember?

BG

zachs · Jun 24, 2004, 12:27 PM

Originally posted by BlackGriffen:
Legally, he can't. He isn't allowed to coordinate, remember?

BG

Facts are stupid things, dontchya know?

Zimphire · Jun 24, 2004, 12:34 PM

Originally posted by zachs:
Give me a BREAK!

You do realize he doesn't have control over them, don't you?
.

You are missing the point.(On purpose I am sure)

I never said he did have CONTROL over them.

I said HIS BUDDIES are doing this.

Don't think for one second that he isn't "in on it" as well.

If this was a group of Dems that had no ties with Kerry I would agree with you.

But this isn't the case.

You know if this was switched around, if this was Bush in this situation, you would be all over it.

Originally posted by BlackGriffen:
Legally, he can't. He isn't allowed to coordinate, remember?

BG

How convenient for him.

BlackGriffen · Jun 24, 2004, 12:36 PM

Originally posted by Zimphire:
How convenient for him.

Rather, how inconvenient. It gives fodder to people like you. Don't be surprised if he either distances himself, or quietly passes them a note.

BlackGriffen

Edit: I believe the situation he's in is called a "Catch-22."

Zimphire · Jun 24, 2004, 12:40 PM

Yeah, I am sure Kerry is going to distance himself from his buddies that are trying to get him in the whitehouse.

This was just another sneak. Kerry knew he could say "I have nothing to do with it, nor can I stop it"

Like I said, too convenient.

zachs · Jun 24, 2004, 12:41 PM

Originally posted by Zimphire:
You are missing the point.(On purpose I am sure)

I never said he did have CONTROL over them.

I said HIS BUDDIES are doing this.

Don't think for one second that he isn't "in on it" as well.

If this was a group of Dems that had no ties with Kerry I would agree with you.

But this isn't the case.

You mean, "past ties to Kerry and his advisers."
As in, people who used to work for Kerry or his advisors.

You know if this was switched around, if this was Bush in this situation, you would be all over it.

Why do keep bringing up hypotheticals? "If it Bush, you'd..." Give it a rest.

Zimphire · Jun 24, 2004, 12:48 PM

Originally posted by zachs:
You mean, "past ties to Kerry and his advisers."
As in, people who used to work for Kerry or his advisors.

Hahahahah!!! So when you make the Bush/Osama or Bush/Saddam connections that was just in the past right? So it has no bearing as to what happened in the future. Right?

Why do keep bringing up hypotheticals? "If it Bush, you'd..." Give it a rest.

Because it's true. You defend Kerry in this. But if it was Bush in the hot seat here, you'd be ALL OVER IT.

You know it. I know it.

zachs · Jun 24, 2004, 12:53 PM

Originally posted by Zimphire:
Hahahahah!!! So when you make the Bush/Osama or Bush/Saddam connections that was just in the past right? So it has no bearing as to what happened in the future. Right?

It has no bearing on CURRENT ties.

Because it's true. You defend Kerry in this. But if it was Bush in the hot seat here, you'd be ALL OVER IT.

You know it. I know it.

It's called a circumstantial ad hominem, Zimph. And you're doing it right now.

Zimphire · Jun 24, 2004, 01:10 PM

Originally posted by zachs:
It has no bearing on CURRENT ties.

What has no bearing?

It's called a circumstantial ad hominem, Zimph. And you're doing it right now.

No, it's called you don't like it when people do it to Kerry, but you think it's ok when you do it to Bush.

itai195 · Jun 24, 2004, 01:45 PM

Apparently convicted fellon Reverend Sun Myung Moon makes large contributions to Republican campaigns and has a close relationship with the Bush family. Why isn't Bush stopping this? If it was Kerry you'd be all over it... blah blah blah noise noise noise yadda yadda yadda... Who gives a crap? Perhaps what we should be more concerned with is that all politicians seem to have some shady ties, regardless of party affiliation.

zachs · Jun 24, 2004, 02:43 PM

Originally posted by Zimphire:
What has no bearing?

Past ties don't indicate present ties.

No, it's called you don't like it when people do it to Kerry, but you think it's ok when you do it to Bush.

Aka, circumstantial ad hominem.