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Zimphire · Jun 30, 2004, 10:42 AM

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,122765,00.html

NEW YORK_�_Passing up road trips, beach vacations and barbecues, thousands of anti-Bush demonstrators are heading to summer school to learn how to stage successful sit-ins and what to do if_pepper spray (search)_burns their eyes. Welcome to Convention Protesting 101.

"When you're protesting in New York City," said John Sellers, the director of a California-based group that trains activists, "you're definitely in the big leagues."

PacHead · Jun 30, 2004, 10:50 AM

What a bunch of violent thugs. May they all get plastered with massive amounts of pepper-spray. Blocking access to doors, clogging traffic, and annoying people is all that bunch is good for.

I hope one of them doesn't sit down in front my path, because I will simply continue to walk and step on them, if they are in my way. I don't take kindly to fascist thugs forcing their perverted views unto others, or limiting my access to various places.

If somebody wants to protest fine, but the violent ones deserve to be clubbed by New York's finest.

DBursey · Jun 30, 2004, 10:54 AM

Political activism is one of the hallmarks of a democratic society.

Tell me Zimphere, to what other basic tenets of free and democratic communities do you object? Perhaps you'd like to see a return to this.

phoenixboy70 · Jun 30, 2004, 10:59 AM

i wonder if they actually charge people for these kinds of courses...
strange.

i could see myself teaching

"rioting 206 : advandced techniques"

curriculum includes "how to make a proper molotov coctail", and "how to smuggle a carpet cutter past security personnel"

OldManMac · Jun 30, 2004, 11:01 AM

To Zimphire and his ilk, democracy only includes their way of thinking.

Zimphire · Jun 30, 2004, 11:06 AM

Originally posted by DBursey:
Political activism is one of the hallmarks of a democratic society.

I am not making fun of political activism. I am all for it.
You must not see what I find funny DB.

Zimphire · Jun 30, 2004, 11:08 AM

Originally posted by KarlG:
To Zimphire and his ilk, democracy only includes their way of thinking.

My ilk? Did I ever tell you I was a registered libertarian?

I am not the one trying to protest a group coming to my city to speak. Trying my best to shut them up.

itai195 · Jun 30, 2004, 12:51 PM

This is new to you? They've been teaching these various techniques to activists since at least the free speech and civil rights movements in the 60s.

Zimphire · Jun 30, 2004, 12:55 PM

I never claimed it was a new thing...

Of course it's not.

That doesn't mean it's any less funny.

itai195 · Jun 30, 2004, 01:00 PM

Ahh, well, okay... if it's funny to you.

Logic · Jun 30, 2004, 01:06 PM

Originally posted by itai195:
Ahh, well, okay... if it's funny to you.

Like my mom says: Simple minds, simple pleasures

Spliffdaddy · Jun 30, 2004, 01:29 PM

Originally posted by Logic:
Like my mom says: Simple minds, simple pleasures

Don't hold it against her. I'm sure she loves you, regardless of the complexity of your mind.

Spliffdaddy · Jun 30, 2004, 01:30 PM

Originally posted by Spliffdaddy:
Don't hold it against her. I'm sure she loves you, regardless of the complexity of your mind.

self-administered *SMACKDOWN*

damn I'm good.

Logic · Jun 30, 2004, 01:34 PM

Originally posted by Spliffdaddy:
Don't hold it against her. I'm sure she loves you, regardless of the complexity of your mind.

Zimphire · Jun 30, 2004, 01:40 PM

Originally posted by itai195:
Ahh, well, okay... if it's funny to you.

It is. The self important pretentiousness of it all.

Zimphire · Jun 30, 2004, 01:41 PM

Originally posted by Spliffdaddy:
Don't hold it against her. I'm sure she loves you, regardless of the complexity of your mind.

Tater Salad · Jun 30, 2004, 01:53 PM

It's kind of like those rich little snooty kids who tried to act like Che Guavara.
Their definition of revolution was a sit in in the teachers' lounge.
Stupid little pricks.

It's like that episode of Family Guy where Nigel the Brit is trying to arouse Lois by telling her he played ding dong ditch. Flat.

itai195 · Jun 30, 2004, 02:05 PM

Originally posted by Zimphire:
It is. The self important pretentiousness of it all.

Yup. I also found the self important pretentiousness of the delegates to the Philadelphia Convention in 1787 rather humorous.

BlackGriffen · Jun 30, 2004, 03:11 PM

Originally posted by Spliffdaddy:
self-administered *SMACKDOWN*

damn I'm good.

Do you always brag when you masturbate?

BlackGriffen

BlackGriffen · Jun 30, 2004, 03:12 PM

Originally posted by Tater Salad:
It's kind of like those rich little snooty kids who tried to act like Che Guavara.
Their definition of revolution was a sit in in the teachers' lounge.
Stupid little pricks.

It's like that episode of Family Guy where Nigel the Brit is trying to arouse Lois by telling her he played ding dong ditch. Flat.

What, you would rather that they turn to violence?

BG

Zimphire · Jun 30, 2004, 07:45 PM

Originally posted by BlackGriffen:
What, you would rather that they turn to violence?

BG

Why would anyone get peppered sprayed for being non-violent? Or disrupting daily lives (which is against the law)

BlackGriffen · Jun 30, 2004, 08:13 PM

Originally posted by Zimphire:
Why would anyone get peppered sprayed for being non-violent? Or disrupting daily lives (which is against the law)

Oh, really? Does that mean that it's against the law for telemarketers to call me, spammers to spam me, door to door salesmen to knock on my door, etc. They all disrupt my daily life on an irregular basis.

Why would anyone get hit with a punch who didn't deserve it? Why would anyone get hit by a car who didn't deserve it? Why would anyone get raped who didn't deserve it?

I hope that my bit of hyperbole has exposed for you the flaws in your thinking.

BlackGriffen

Zimphire · Jun 30, 2004, 08:19 PM

WOW what a spin you weaved there!

Police don't mace innocent protesters.

Why would one need to be taught about how to handle a mace attack if everything was Kosher?

These people don't want a peaceful protest. They want to be obnoxious and disrupt as much as they can. They are EXPECTING to get into trouble.

This is what this class is about. Teaching how.

These people are demanding free speech, while trying to silence other Americans that deserve it just as much.

"FREE SPEECH FOR THOSE WHO THINK LIKE ME ONLY"

angaq0k · Jun 30, 2004, 08:29 PM

Originally posted by Zimphire:

hmm..

all that noise for such a little victory.

Smells like desparation to me...

Thank God there is some pepper to put some life to those activists! Can you imagine apathic protesters????

angaq0k · Jun 30, 2004, 08:33 PM

Originally posted by BlackGriffen:
What, you would rather that they turn to violence?

BG

OMG!!!

Are YOU talking of terrorists???

Those ignorant bastards?

I can think of only one solution: P E R S P E C T I V E . . .

Zimphire · Jun 30, 2004, 08:33 PM

Originally posted by angaq0k:
hmm..

all that noise for such a little victory.

Smells like desparation to me...

Yes, because posting pics using img tags takes a lot of effort.

angaq0k · Jun 30, 2004, 08:34 PM

Originally posted by phoenixboy70:
i wonder if they actually charge people for these kinds of courses...
strange.

i could see myself teaching

"rioting 206 : advandced techniques"

curriculum includes "how to make a proper molotov coctail", and "how to smuggle a carpet cutter past security personnel"

How about "Illusionism with WMDs 101"?

BlackGriffen · Jul 1, 2004, 12:11 AM

Originally posted by Zimphire:
Police don't mace innocent protesters.

I prefer to take things situation by situation, thank you, rather than make blanket and obviously false statements like that.

Here are a couple reasons why someone might get pepper sprayed even though they're innocent:

Cop with an itchy trigger finger.
Some other protesters (planted or not) start trouble, and innocent people on both sides get caught up in the melee.

BG

Spliffdaddy · Jul 1, 2004, 04:29 AM

here are a couple of reasons why I won't accidentally get maced/pepper-sprayed/clubbed/shot during a protest:

a) I'm not a peacenik liberal weenie.

b) I don't participate in protests.

CRASH HARDDRIVE · Jul 1, 2004, 10:34 AM

This is just part and parcel of certain leftists who provoke and manufacture a large part of their �struggles� in order to make out like they�ve truly got some 1950�s-60�s level of �adversity� to overcome. These are people that see vintage images of riots, racial unrest, cops with dogs and fire hoses beating peaceful demonstrators and they don�t think: �Gee, glad things aren�t like that anymore.� They think: �Gee, those were the GOOD OL� DAYS! Those people TRULY had adversity and strife to protest against! I WISH I HAD THAT!�

So then they set about manufacturing their own.

Go and protest peacefully and without violating anyone else�s rights, or blocking traffic and doorways, or throwing crap at people, etc. and chances are great no cop or anyone else will bother you. These loons know that.

But of course that�s not good enough for people pining away to get the �beaten like a 60�s protestor� sympathy vote. It�s far better to act like complete @ssholes to the point where someone HAS to use pepper spray and forcibly remove you. Only then can the drama queen element of the lunatic left get its adversity fix. They can pretend it�s the 60�s again, ham it up for the cameras and press, victims of their manufactured 'strife', and pretend that it�s another conspiracy where everyone�s out to get them.

I feel for the cops that have to put up with these pricks. Like a cop's normal job isn't tough enough, now on top of everything else, they�ll once again have to babysit a bunch of strife-seeking leftist twits looking to score drama queen points.

PacHead · Jul 1, 2004, 10:37 AM

When the protests happen in NYC, I'm going to try and be there, and put my 4 megapixel camera to good use. I hope to fill up my memory card with lots of amusing pictures, showing bloody and maced, violent leftie thugs. As I stated earlier, people have the right to protest, but people do not have the right to violent protests and act like hooligans.

Sven G · 10:48 AM

Originally posted by CRASH HARDDRIVE:
Go and protest peacefully and without violating anyone else�s rights [...]

That's all very good, but, sadly, today's "peaceful protests" don't tend to accomplish anything factual, just as the more "riot-like" protests: it's the imaginary level which isn't just there, anymore, IMHO.

Just as your pesudonym, today's society seems like a crashed harddrive: the information on which it would be possible to (re)construct a more human society is, essentially, all there (as has been for centuries, for that matter, probably) - it's just that most people cannot or don't feel like to access that information, so to say.

That's why we probably need some "society" (and individual also, of course) Disk Warrior (or Norton, or TechTool), in order to proceed beyond our tiny and forcedly limited home folders towards administrator (and eventually root) capabilities for everyone (as far as humanly possible) - possibly, a free/open source utility for our degenerated society...

phoenixboy70 · Jul 1, 2004, 10:43 AM

Originally posted by PacHead:
When the protests happen in NYC, I'm going to try and be there, and put my 4 megapixel camera to good use. I hope to fill up my memory card with lots of amusing pictures, showing bloody and maced, violent leftie thugs.

bwahahhahaaha. you're a nut.

phoenixboy70 · Jul 1, 2004, 10:46 AM

Originally posted by Sven G:
That's all very good, but, sadly, today's "peaceful protests" don't tend to accomplish anything factual...

on the mark, as usual!

Zimphire · Jul 1, 2004, 11:26 AM

Originally posted by Sven G:
That's all very good, but, sadly, today's "peaceful protests" don't tend to accomplish anything factual, just as the more "riot-like" protests: it's the imaginary level which isn't just there, anymore, IMHO.

Indeed. They have the need to be self-important. And that is why they do it.

Zimphire · Jul 1, 2004, 11:27 AM

Originally posted by phoenixboy70:
on the mark, as usual!

You left out the rest of his quote. Why is that?

itai195 · Jul 1, 2004, 11:32 AM

Originally posted by Zimphire:
Indeed. They have the need to be self-important. And that is why they do it.

They think they're doing something important. Anyway, I don't see the point in belittling people for using their rights. I do think these riot-like protests lately are a little ridiculous, and protesters should suffer consequences for that kind of behavior.

Zimphire · Jul 1, 2004, 11:36 AM

Originally posted by itai195:
They think they're doing something important. Anyway, I don't see the point in belittling people for using their rights.

There is nothing wrong with voicing your opinion. But to try to out yell so others aren't able to voice theirs, that is another story.

They aren't going to be there for a peaceful protest.

They have an objective to disrupt. They are trying to stop OTHER people from voicing their opinion.

Which is AGAINST the Freedom to speak.

Lets look at this gem

activists are quietly learning how to block doorways or street intersections and when to use passive body language � such as sitting down � to disarm police officers trying to make an arrest.

Yeah, that's not a peaceful protest.

I'd like to see them try to disarm police officers. They are libel to get shot in the head.

Then the same people will scream MURDERERS!!1111!!1

DBursey · Jul 1, 2004, 01:25 PM

... And rightly so, if someone is shot in the head for engaging in an act of passive resistance such as sitting down.

Here's your poke with my pointy stick for raising such an obscene scenario.

... gotta get down to it
soldiers are cutting us down
shoulda been gone long ago
what if you knew her
and found her dead on the ground
how can you run when you know?

itai195 · Jul 1, 2004, 01:43 PM

Originally posted by Zimphire:
There is nothing wrong with voicing your opinion. But to try to out yell so others aren't able to voice theirs, that is another story.

They aren't going to be there for a peaceful protest.

They have an objective to disrupt. They are trying to stop OTHER people from voicing their opinion.

Which is AGAINST the Freedom to speak.

They're engaging in civil disobedience, which is an acceptable method of protest. You must have missed this 'gem:'

"The Republicans would love to have images coming out of New York City that make them look like the reasonable ones, like they're about responsibility and law and order and creating a safe society, and that the left was unreasonable and violent," Sellers said. "If we don't recognize that, then we're not being very strategic."

The instruction includes skills for responding to rogue protesters intent on causing lawlessness. Veterans expect thousands of untrained demonstrators to swarm city streets

If they cause disruptions they'll be arrested, which is also acceptable.

Zimphire · Jul 1, 2004, 02:15 PM

Originally posted by DBursey:
... And rightly so, if someone is shot in the head for engaging in an act of passive resistance such as sitting down.

Here's your poke with my pointy stick for raising such an obscene scenario.

Yeah I was exaggerating a bit. I apologize.

Lets make a another example.

If they are sprayed with Mace for this reason. Or even beaten into submission (You know resisting arrest) They will scream cruelty and injustice!

And yeah, blocking intersections and doorways is against the law. These people are promoting such things.

Zimphire · Jul 1, 2004, 02:16 PM

Originally posted by itai195:
They're engaging in civil disobedience, which is an acceptable method of protest. You must have missed this 'gem:'

They are being taught to break the law. Not protest.

phoenixboy70 · Jul 1, 2004, 02:37 PM

Originally posted by Zimphire:
You left out the rest of his quote. Why is that?

"..."

Zimphire · Jul 1, 2004, 02:52 PM

Originally posted by phoenixboy70:
"..."

Aah.. because you had a stick in your eye.

DBursey · Jul 1, 2004, 06:49 PM

I see it as more of an upper cheekbone jab. Not terribly pleasant, but no lasting damage. Kinda like pepper spray.

Seriously Zimph, these people teach passive, non-violent means of resisting authority in a planned protest. You seem to be trying to paint this as training for looting and hooliganism. It's supposed to be the opposite. As far as I knew, planned protests are legal in Canada, the U.S., and some other western countries. Anyone have more specifics on the legality of protests, sit-in's and the like? Perhaps I'll look it up if I have some time.

Zimphire · Jul 1, 2004, 06:59 PM

Originally posted by DBursey:
Seriously Zimph, these people teach passive, non-violent means of resisting authority in a planned protest.

Which is still against the law....

You seem to be trying to paint this as training for looting and hooliganism.

Looting? No, blocking streets and entrances is however hooliganism. And also against the law.

It's supposed to be the opposite. As far as I knew, planned protests are legal in Canada, the U.S., and some other western countries. Anyone have more specifics on the legality of protests, sit-in's and the like? Perhaps I'll look it up if I have some time.

Planned protests are ok. I have no problem with them. As long as they follow the law.

itai195 · Jul 1, 2004, 07:25 PM

Behold, king of the hooligans:

Zimphire · Jul 1, 2004, 09:32 PM

Not a big fan of his (Don't dislike him either) But he wasn't as thugish as these hooligans.

CRASH HARDDRIVE · Jul 1, 2004, 10:45 PM

Behold, a man who didn�t have to manufacture his own causes, nor invent drama and hype.

Perfect example of someone leftwing-nuts nut WISH they could go back to the �good ol� days� of. �Gee, wish we had it as bad off as he did! Sure would be great to have a REAL struggle, for a REAL cause that actually matters! We�d get LOTS of sympathy and attention! Quick! Let�s pretend...!�

Jansar · Jul 2, 2004, 04:59 PM

These anti-American demonstrators should be shot. How could our own country allow such treasonous acts to continue? Maybe they should learn to blow themselves up. Then they'll be no different than terrorists. By the way, how does one treat pepper spray that's come into contact with their eyes? I only know one person that's immune, and that's Glen Quagmire. And he's not even a real person.