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wolfen · Jul 2, 2004, 12:23 PM

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmp...9082_2004jun30

The instruction sheet circulated by the Bush-Cheney campaign to religious volunteers lists 22 "duties" to be performed by specific dates. By July 31, for example, volunteers are to "send your Church Directory to your State Bush-Cheney '04 Headquarters or give [it] to a BC04 Field Rep" and "Talk to your Pastor about holding a Citizenship Sunday and Voter Registration Drive."

...the IRS on June 10 sent a strongly worded letter to both the Republican and Democratic national committees, reminding them that tax-exempt charitable groups "are prohibited from directly or indirectly participating or intervening in any political campaign on behalf of, or in opposition to, any candidate for public office."

Zimphire · Jul 2, 2004, 12:29 PM

Does this mean Jesse Jackson has to shut up? He is a reverend you know.

zigzag · Jul 2, 2004, 12:34 PM

Originally posted by wolfen:
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmp...9082_2004jun30

The instruction sheet circulated by the Bush-Cheney campaign to religious volunteers lists 22 "duties" to be performed by specific dates. By July 31, for example, volunteers are to "send your Church Directory to your State Bush-Cheney '04 Headquarters or give [it] to a BC04 Field Rep" and "Talk to your Pastor about holding a Citizenship Sunday and Voter Registration Drive."

...the IRS on June 10 sent a strongly worded letter to both the Republican and Democratic national committees, reminding them that tax-exempt charitable groups "are prohibited from directly or indirectly participating or intervening in any political campaign on behalf of, or in opposition to, any candidate for public office."

Yeah, I saw that one. Personally, I don't think churches, or any group for that matter, should be prohibited from campaigning. The problem isn't that churches want to be political, it's that they also want tax-free status. You can't have it both ways. I think the tax-free status should be revoked, then they can do as they please.

zigzag · Jul 2, 2004, 12:37 PM

Originally posted by Zimphire:
Does this mean Jesse Jackson has to shut up? He is a reverend you know.

Don't you ever get tired of being a childish twit? As the article - which you probably didn't bother to read - points out, individuals like Jesse Jackson and Pat Robertson can campaign as much as they like. The discussion is about tax-exempt church organizations, not individuals.

Zimphire · Jul 2, 2004, 12:48 PM

Originally posted by zigzag:
Don't you ever get tired of being a childish twit?

It was called a joke. I obviously wasn't being serious.

Don't you ever get tired of being "ad name here" ?

voyageur · Jul 2, 2004, 12:52 PM

Wouldn't allowing churches to get involved in campaigning just polarize the US yet more? Do we want that? Churches are supposed to be based on common spiritual values; how those are translated to the political arena should be up to the individual church-goer to decide, not the church as a whole.

alphasubzero949 · Jul 2, 2004, 12:53 PM

Originally posted by zigzag:
which you probably didn't bother to read

Come on, is this a surprise? He still hasn't bothered to watch F911.

doctorkeyser · Jul 2, 2004, 12:53 PM

"Dear God, who doth not exist nor ever did existeth, please make George Bush the President of the United States, for I and my brainwashed, braindead congregation want to see His word ring true from the highest office in the land, even though the Constitution says that's illegal.

Oh, and God, thanks be to thee for giving us Nascar, grits, monster trucks, boyscout getaways, and chewin' tobacky...even though you're a pipe dream of some ape descendant 3000 years ago."

Zimphire · Jul 2, 2004, 12:57 PM

Originally posted by alphasubzero949:
Come on, is this a surprise? He still hasn't bothered to watch F911.

Huh? I watched it this past week. And yes I read it. Again, let me repeat for you that are humor impaired.

IT WAS A JOKE

Zimphire · Jul 2, 2004, 01:00 PM

Originally posted by doctorkeyser:
"Dear God, who doth not exist nor ever did existeth, please make George Bush the President of the United States, for I and my brainwashed, braindead congregation want to see His word ring true from the highest office in the land, even though the Constitution says that's illegal.

Oh, and God, thanks be to thee for giving us Nascar, grits, monster trucks, boyscout getaways, and chewin' tobacky...even though you're a pipe dream of some ape descendant 3000 years ago."

zigzag · Jul 2, 2004, 01:15 PM

Originally posted by voyageur:
Wouldn't allowing churches to get involved in campaigning just polarize the US yet more? Do we want that? Churches are supposed to be based on common spiritual values; how those are translated to the political arena should be up to the individual church-goer to decide, not the church as a whole.

Good points - I would probably want to belong to a non-partisan church myself. But if some church wants to engage in politically partisan speech, I wouldn't want to prevent it - I regard that as a fundamental right. My problem is more with the tax-exempt status than the speech.

thunderous_funker · Jul 2, 2004, 01:30 PM

Originally posted by doctorkeyser:
"Dear God, who doth not exist nor ever did existeth, please make George Bush the President of the United States, for I and my brainwashed, braindead congregation want to see His word ring true from the highest office in the land, even though the Constitution says that's illegal.

Oh, and God, thanks be to thee for giving us Nascar, grits, monster trucks, boyscout getaways, and chewin' tobacky...even though you're a pipe dream of some ape descendant 3000 years ago."

BWAAAHAAAHAAAHAAA!!

Thanks for that. Whooowee that's funny.

MindFad · Jul 2, 2004, 01:30 PM

When all else fails, ride the Jesus ticket. As a pre-emptive campaign move just in case there's no October surprise?

Maybe. Sprinkle the FUD on the church and you might get yourself another term.

doctorkeyser · Jul 2, 2004, 01:37 PM

"God, me again. I also wanted to praise thee for assault weapons, standing up to the ragheads, and for sending us judges who would make abortion illegal if installed in the Supreme Court. There are simply way too many black girls having abortions these days, God, as you well know. I know you're right, God, that my stance seems at odds with itself since I secretly want all black people to move back to their own country, but I still want to praise thee for the judge/abortion thing. Oh, and that Michael W. Smith guy is DREAMY!"

Zimphire · Jul 2, 2004, 01:39 PM

wolfen · Jul 2, 2004, 01:41 PM

Originally posted by MindFad:
When all else fails, ride the Jesus ticket. As a pre-emptive campaign move just in case there's no October surprise? Maybe. Sprinkle the FUD on the church and you might get yourself another term.

Yep.

Contemporary Republican version of Bringin' out the Vote:

"Vote fer me or the heathen liberals will start cloning yer daughter's aborted fetus! And you don't want gay people holdin' hands in public, do ya? Vote for me or the nation's got a one way ticket to hell!"

doctorkeyser · Jul 2, 2004, 01:44 PM

"God, yo. I also wanted to say nice job on giving all those gay men HIV! Now if we could only stop those Satan-worshipper doctors who try to help them! Well, I'm off to bed now God. Kiss Jesus the Christ of all Christy Saviors for me, and grant me the strength to let others think for me."

Zimphire · Jul 2, 2004, 01:45 PM

Originally posted by wolfen:
"Vote fer me or the heathen liberals will start cloning yer daughter's aborted fetus! And you don't want gay people holdin' hands in public, do ya? Vote for me or the nation's got a one way ticket to hell!"

Or Vote fer me or the anti-freedom Christian biggots will hang people for being gay, and kill anyone that has an abortion! You don't want these Jesus freaks in office do you?

It goes both ways.

doctorkeyser · Jul 2, 2004, 01:50 PM

"God, I can't sleep. Why? Because I can't believe all the people in the world that are saying that YOU are the reason why the world is thrown into such upheaval lately. How dare they? While it may be true that no other topic in the history of mankind has polarized people more strongly and driven them to homicidal lunacy, belief in God has also given us great things: church potluck suppers, church bingo, fellatio for hard-working catholic priests, cool jewelry, and Amy Grant!"

wolfen · Jul 2, 2004, 01:51 PM

Originally posted by Zimphire:
Or Vote fer me or the anti-freedom Christian biggots will hang people for being gay, and kill anyone that has an abortion! You don't want these Jesus freaks in office do you?

It goes both ways.

One's a whisper and one's a scream. They hardly "go both ways" with equal force.

thunderous_funker · Jul 2, 2004, 01:55 PM

doctorkeyser, stop, I'm in hysterics already. My monitor is covered in coffee and my coworkers are staring at me like I'm a loon!!

Please, oh please cease slaying me with laughter!

P.S. I think I love you and can I buy you a drink after the show?

doctorkeyser · Jul 2, 2004, 02:03 PM

"Dear God, I also want to thank you for showing me the way. Back when I had that 2 1/2-year relationship with doctorkeyser in early college...you know, the one where he estimates I gave him 614 acts of fellatio despite my insistence that I came from one of the most prominent catholic families in my state...I tried to tell him about what he was missing by not believing in Ewe. Then, he broke it off with me. I was devastated. But then, I met John, and he Knocked me up. But we were married soon after, and I know in Your eyes, that is all that counts. My younger sister just got Knocked up, too, God. Jesus would be so happy to know that she will be getting married, too. Please tell him it was really nice of him to die for our sins...even though all we have to do is confess and we've got a clean slate anyway. Toodles!"

itai195 · Jul 2, 2004, 02:11 PM

America has no king but Jesus, after all.

BRussell · Jul 2, 2004, 02:21 PM

Josh Marshall has a theory that Bush is encouraging the Catholic Church to put pressure on Kerry for not being Catholic enough on issues like abortion.

And now, Kerry is being charged with heresy for being pro-choice and receiving communion. A heretic? Do they still even have heresy charges anymore? Is he going to be thumb-screwed by the inquisitor until he confesses? Disemboweled perhaps?

BRussell · Jul 2, 2004, 02:22 PM

Originally posted by itai195:
America has no king but Jesus, after all.

Let the Eagle sooooaaaaar!

doctorkeyser · Jul 2, 2004, 02:24 PM

"God, 'sup. Just another thank you from a big fan. Where would we be if you hadn't held George Walker Christ up and placed him on high for all the world to see? By helping Him through the trials of alcoholism, cocaine abuse, and mental retardation, Ewe proved that your Love saves all, even all those pesky ragheads who deny you your place in their hearts. But now that Son George is forcing them to see that the light of the Lord Christ is upon them, or else(!), they will come into the fold, be counted among the sheep, and their children will kneel at thy alter. Daily will they affirm their love by offering their cheap labor on the oil fields of Iraq. Just one question, God...when Noah was packing up the Ark, why'd you have to let him take the non-Americans? To test the strength of our devotion, I guess? Well, we'll pass the test, big G! Shine down on Earnhardt Jr. this Sunday, OK?"

thunderous_funker · Jul 2, 2004, 02:29 PM

Originally posted by BRussell:
Josh Marshall has a theory that Bush is encouraging the Catholic Church to put pressure on Kerry for not being Catholic enough on issues like abortion.

And now, Kerry is being charged with heresy for being pro-choice and receiving communion. A heretic? Do they still even have heresy charges anymore? Is he going to be thumb-screwed by the inquisitor until he confesses? Disemboweled perhaps?

You're surprised? The Catholic leadership is mired in medievalism. Their biggest mistake was not smashing Gutenberg's press when they had the chance. Once the rabble learned to read their fate was sealed.

Well, that is, of course, until American Fundamentalism made Fuedalism and subsistance farming seem like a fashionable return to the Good Old Days of Piety(tm).

There are people in this nation as utterly backwards and anti-modern and anti-democratic as any Wahabist Sect with too much time and explosives on its hands.

alphasubzero949 · Jul 2, 2004, 02:55 PM

Originally posted by BRussell:
Let the Eagle sooooaaaaar!

Zimphire · Jul 2, 2004, 05:06 PM

Originally posted by wolfen:
One's a whisper and one's a scream. They hardly "go both ways" with equal force.

You are right, esp in here the Christian bashers are louder.

boots · Jul 2, 2004, 05:34 PM

The irony is pretty heavy on this issue. Bush is Methodist. At the last General Conference of the United Methodist Church, his policies (particularly the war) were condemned.

His own church won't support him but he thinks the others will....

Zimphire · Jul 2, 2004, 05:43 PM

Originally posted by boots:
The irony is pretty heavy on this issue. Bush is Methodist. At the last General Conference of the United Methodist Church, his policies (particularly the war) were condemned.

His own church won't support him but he thinks the others will....

No, you mean some from the Methodist Church. I have been to many Methodists churches over the past year. All were very supportive of Bush. Most are even voting for him.

boots · Jul 2, 2004, 05:54 PM

Originally posted by Zimphire:
No, you mean some from the Methodist Church. I have been to many Methodists churches over the past year. All were very supportive of Bush. Most are even voting for him.

They passed resolutions by votes from the delegations condemning the idea of "preemption" as unchristian and antithetical to the social principles. Sure, there were some dissenters. There always are on any issue. But the church as a whole voted on the resolutions.

wolfen · Jul 2, 2004, 05:56 PM

Originally posted by Zimphire:
You are right, esp in here the Christian bashers are louder.

Yes, well I can handle imbalance in a chat room. Constitutional amendments and starvation of budgets are quite a different level of communication, don't you think? I mean, you get that there's a big difference, right?

doctorkeyser · Jul 2, 2004, 08:58 PM

Originally posted by Zimphire:
You are right, esp in here the Christian bashers are louder.

"God, give me the strength to help me face those who say that I act like I'm above reproach, but that in reality I'm ruining the world and my children's world by fanatically intertwining that which is real...and that which is laughably fake. Oh Sweet N' Low Jesus the Christ of Miraculous Saviourshipness, please strike down my detractors with your righteous Bunker-Busting Fury, and deliver me from those who would say that I am a megalomaniacal, hypocritical, Constitution-burning sheep. And blessed be the fruit of thy womb, 'Touched By an Angel' on the Hallmark Channel."