[dcolton]

http://www.canadafreepress.com/cover_storyj.htm

Elections Canada will lay charges against shockumentary filmmaker Michael Moore.


Officially, Elections Canada will neither confirm nor deny plans to lay formal charges against Moore. However, Canadafreepress.com has learned through sources that charges are imminent and expected by the end of next week.


The anti-Bush Moore, who often lets his mouth get ahead of him, may think he got away with the boner of the Canadian release of Fahrenheit 9/11 just days ahead of the June 28 federal election, but there is the little matter of election law infringement.

Interesting. I am sure it is too good to be true, but worth discussion!

[dcolton]

Actually, I had to rethink my position on this. What right do the Canadians have to charge an American citizen for practicing his right to free speech (albeit half truth, hyperbolie, and deception)?

I am assuming that the true intent of the law is to deter nations from influencing elections and I wonder what, if any, US laws mirror or are similar to Canada's law.

[MacGorilla]

The anti-Bush Moore, who often lets his mouth get ahead of him, may think he got away with the boner of the Canadian release of Fahrenheit 9/11 just days ahead of the June 28 federal election, but there is the little matter of election law infringement.

We'll have to see if this rumour is true or not. But on a side note, the movie had like zero to do with Canada.

[BRussell]

Originally posted by MacGorilla:
But on a side note, the movie had like zero to do with Canada.

That doesn't seem like a side note.

[edit]Having read the article ( ), I see that he's not being charged for releasing the movie, as the original quote made it seem. What they're talking about is him coming into Canada and expressing a political opinion about the upcoming election. Apparently you're not allowed to do that in Canada.

[Wiskedjak]

Originally posted by dcolton:
http://www.canadafreepress.com/cover_storyj.htm


Interesting. I am sure it is too good to be true, but worth discussion!

What exactly is he being charged with?

[Wiskedjak]

Here it is from slightly more reliable sources. Looks like the story is legit:

Toronto Star
National Post
National Post

[Spliffdaddy]

Originally posted by Wiskedjak:
What exactly is he being charged with?

Releasing political propaganda before an election - while calling it a documentary.

According to the Canada Elections Act, it is an offence for anyone who is not a Canadian citizen and does not live in Canada to "in any way induce electors to vote or refrain from voting or vote or refrain from voting for a particular candidate" during an election period.

Apparently, during the Canadian release of his film, Moore also mentioned a candidate that Canadians should vote against.

[Wiskedjak]

Originally posted by Spliffdaddy:
Releasing political propaganda before an election - while calling it a documentary.

Interesting charge. Couldn't urging the electorate against voting for a particular candidate prior to an election be charged against almost any election reporter? Did he make this statement in Fahrenheit 9/11. However, if he broke Canadian law, then he should be charged.

[DBursey]

from the Toronto Star:

A Queen's University student and president of the Ontario Campus Conservatives has launched a Web site and online petition calling on Elections Canada to charge Moore with interfering in the recent federal election. When Moore was in Toronto during the election, promoting his film Fahrenheit 9/11, he urged Canadians to rally against Conservative leader Stephen Harper.

According to the Canada Elections Act, it is an offence for anyone who is not a Canadian citizen and does not live in Canada to "in any way induce electors to vote or refrain from voting or vote or refrain from voting for a particular candidate" during an election period.

From the Non-Interference by Foreigners clause (Part 11, Division 9, section 331) of the Canadian Elections Act:

No person who does not reside in Canada shall, during an election period, in any way induce electors to vote or refrain from voting for a particular candidate unless the person is

- a Canadian citizen; or

- a permanent resident within the meaning of subsection 2 (1) of the Immigration and Refugee Protection Act.

[Millennium]

I'm not sure I understand how Canada has any jurisdiction over this. I could be wrong, of course, but it doesn't look as though they have a case. Yeah, calling his films 'documentaries' is uncomfortably close to fraud, but I don't see where they're getting the idea that they have the necessary authority to prosecute.

[BlackGriffen]

Originally posted by Millennium:
I'm not sure I understand how Canada has any jurisdiction over this. I could be wrong, of course, but it doesn't look as though they have a case. Yeah, calling his films 'documentaries' is uncomfortably close to fraud, but I don't see where they're getting the idea that they have the necessary authority to prosecute.

The thing is that this doesn't have anything to do with his film other than that's why he was in Canada. What it looks like is he made some statements that were at odds with some xenophobic legislation.

BlackGriffen

[DBursey]

Millenium, I'm not sure who you're referring to as they. A group of young conservatives are petitioning Elections Canada to charge Moore based on the "Non-Interference by Foreigners" clause (Part 11, Division 9, section 331) of the Canadian Elections Act, which states that:

No person who does not reside in Canada shall, during an election period, in any way induce electors to vote or refrain from voting for a particular candidate unless the person is
- a Canadian citizen; or
- a permanent resident within the meaning of subsection 2 (1) of the Immigration and Refugee Protection Act.

So it's a petition brought forward by a group of private citizens to Elections Canada. Elections Canada won't follow through.

Blackgriffen: The law is by no means xenophobic!

[BRussell]

Originally posted by DBursey:
The law is by no means xenophobic!

It seems so to me, but more importantly it seems very anti-free-expression. Non-Canadians aren't allowed to express political opinions about an election? I bet it's one of those absurd laws that doesn't get enforced very often. I could see it applying if, say, an American corporation started funding TV ads on Canadian TV or something. But when it's just some American saying "Don't vote conservative!"?

But I'm not sure what the word "induce" means here. Usually induce means something stronger than "recommend," like "I'm going to shoot you with my American shotgun unless you vote for X."

[BlackGriffen]

Originally posted by DBursey:
Blackgriffen: The law is by no means xenophobic!

Hit a sore spot there, did I?

The problem is that it's too broad, with the effect that foreigners are muzzled. Look, foreigners have a stake in elections, too, though a less direct one. Expecting them to not voice their opinions for the sake of the 'purity' of the election is, frankly, xenophobic. What do you suppose would happen if the U.S. tried some bull$hit like this (aside from the Supreme Court striking it down, I hope)? There would be an international $hitstorm over the tyrannical xenophobic United States trying to put a muzzle on the rest of the world. And, frankly, rightly so.

If they were to amend it somehow so that foreigners could voice their opinions but were otherwise barred from exerting influence, then maybe I could stomach it. As it is, that law is an odious turd on Canada's books.

BlackGriffen

[Invictus]

The Canadian government isn't going to charge Moore or anyone else. You've all been punk'd by the Conservative Party youth wing. Never happen, sorry.

The government is not run by the youth wing, and besides if Moore were charged, than so would Ralph Nader, Paul Cellucci (American ambassador) and countless other foreigners who passed thru Canada expressing their opinions before the elections.

A non-starter.

P.S.: Thread title is misleading indeed by a known Canadian xenophobe.

NEXT

[angaq0k]

Originally posted by Invictus:
The Canadian government isn't going to charge Moore or anyone else. You've all been punk'd by the Conservative Party youth wing. Never happen, sorry.

The government is not run by the youth wing, and besides if Moore were charged, than so would Ralph Nader, Paul Cellucci (American ambassador) and countless other foreigners who passed thru Canada expressing their opinions before the elections.

A non-starter.

P.S.: Thread title is misleading indeed by a known Canadian xenophobe.

NEXT

The argumentation could be about the fact that such declarations were made a few days before elections, where candidates are required to stop campaigning, IIRC.

Nevertheless, people need to understand that such a charge would be valid if Moore had been in Canada for its declaration then, and also, understanding that we still have banners here and there left by the candidates.

This is a non-issue raised by some extremist punk, bored to death through a too hot summer, who can't understand he lost his elections, period.

Personally, I could not care less, especially that I did not vote, since we all had pretty crappy candidates...

[Spliffdaddy]

So nobody disagrees that the law applies in this situation - it's just that it won't be enforced in this particular instance.

Does that mean Dubya's father can travel to Canada and tell everyone to vote against liberals?

Or would *that* act be prosecuted?

Was the law designed to limit the influence of foreign conservatives?

Sure looks that way.

What other stupid laws does Canada selectively enforce?

[Wiskedjak]

If he broke the law of another nation while in that nation, then he should be charged and tried for it, regardless of how zenophobic the law in question may appear. The validity of the law will be tested in the courts.

Personally, I find the law to be a little strange (does any such law exist in the US?). I'll be surprised if he is convicted, if even charged. Though I could see a person who is part of the government of a foreign nation being charged and convicted of this "crime" should they make similar statements while on Canadian soil during an election ... regardless of which wing of the political plane they sit on.

[Monique]

It just shows that in Canada having an opinion is a criminal offence

[shmerek]

Originally posted by Monique:
It just shows that in Canada having an opinion is a criminal offence

leave already.

I had read that non-conservatives wanted the case to be brought forward so they could challenge the legality of that little section of the Canada Elections Act. It is a retarded bit of legislation.