[Spliffdaddy]

France has the most (< edit: too hard to defend that word. so I added another > ) strict legislation regarding race and religion - of any nation on Earth.

Yet, they're baffled as to why it doesn't seem to prevent racial or religious crimes. lol.

"We have laws against that.", the French government will say.

And they'll have a serious look on their face when they say it.

Then they'll go home to their families, eat dinner, and bitch about Jews.






http://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/europe...eut/index.html


PARIS, France (Reuters) -- French politicians and Jewish leaders denounced on Monday a call by Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon for French Jews to emigrate immediately to Israel to escape what he called the "wildest anti-Semitism."

Sharon made his remarks in a speech to visiting Jewish leaders in Jerusalem, despite acknowledging efforts to fight anti-Semitism led by President Jacques Chirac. His comments have soured the atmosphere as France tries to build ties with Israel.

Attempts by an Israeli spokesman to ease tensions made little impact after Paris demanded an explanation for the comments.

Parliamentary speaker Jean-Louis Debre, a member of Chirac's ruling conservative party, the UMP, told Europe 1 radio Sharon's comments were unacceptable and irresponsible: "These are matters which distort reality...and I think they are an expression of hostility towards our country."

Sharon often calls on all the world's Jews to migrate to Israel. He acknowledged the French government was making efforts to stem anti-Semitism but added that the threat was so grave that French Jews should head for Israel without delay.

France is home to western Europe's biggest Jewish and Muslim communities and has been troubled by attacks on Jewish people and property in recent years, some of it blamed on tensions stoked by the Israeli-Palestinian conflict.

But French leaders said Sharon's remarks were ill-informed.

"France is not Germany of the 1930s," said Julien Dray, spokesman for the opposition Socialist Party, referring to the Nazi persecution of Jews.

Defense Minister Michele Alliot-Marie told RTL radio France strongly condemned racism and added: "I would simply recall that France is today certainly the country with the strictest legislation on all problems of racism."

French Jewish organizations distanced themselves from Sharon's remarks.

"He should leave the French Jewish community to deal with its own affairs," said Theo Klein, honorary president of the CRIF umbrella group representing major French Jewish organizations.

Israel has often criticized the stance taken by France and the European Union over the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, accusing the EU of bias towards the Palestinians.

Paris has been trying to strengthen trade and political ties with Israel, but renewed tension in relations could undermine such moves. The French Foreign Ministry demanded an explanation on Sunday for comments it said were unacceptable.

A spokesman for Sharon tried to ease tension on Sunday by saying the prime minister had praised France for its "strong stance" against anti-Semitism while blaming anti-Semitism in France on "a large Muslim populace who are hostile to Israel."

About 600,000 Jews and five million Muslims form part of France's population of 60 million.

The French Interior Ministry registered 67 attacks on Jews or their property and 160 threats against Jews in the first quarter of this year compared with 42 attacks and 191 threats in the last three months of 2003.

[DBursey]

France has the most legislation regarding race and religion - of any nation on Earth.

That's quite a claim! Can you authenticate it? Is it as speciously inaccurate as those propped in your sig?

[Spliffdaddy]

Give me a minute to collect more sources on *most* legislation...while you simmer on *strictest* for a while >

"I would simply recall that France is today certainly the country with the strictest legislation on all problems of racism." - Defense Minister Michele Alliot-Marie

[Millennium]

Laws against racism serve only to sweep it all under the rug, so we can all pretend it doesn't exist.

Is France home of "the wildest anti-Semitism"? Probably not. At the same time, their laws have not done anything to combat it, and they never will, because laws only breed the very resentment on which racism thrives. The key is education and open discussion, not simply shouting these fiends down. Let them prove their own foolishness to the world, and they will do so.

[lil'babykitten]

Originally posted by Spliffdaddy:
Then they'll go home to their families, eat dinner, and bitch about Jews.

The recent upsurge in anti-semitism has occurred as a result of the continued violence surrounding the Israel-Palestine conflict. Though you like to think this is predominantly a French problem, it is not. Ignorance exists everywhere in the world.

[Troll]

The "anti-semitism" in France is quite different from the anti-semitism you see in other countries. In the US or Germany for example, anti-semitism is, for the most part, the work of neo-Nazis. In France, the tension has other sources.

France has the largest Jewish population in Europe. It also has the largest Muslim, Arab population in Europe. The Jews are relatively well integrated into France; the Arabs less so. Most of the anti-semitic attacks are conducted by young Muslims of Arab or North-African descent. The research into the motives for these attacks shows an attribution by the perpetrators of Israel's policies to French jews. The perpetrators apparently see Jews as Israeli rather than French. The tension between Palestinians and Israelis therefore plays itself out in "anti-semitic" attacks in France. Jews, for their part, don't deny the link. I have many French Jewish friends and they tell me that they cannot separate Israel from their identity. They feel compelled to support her even when Israel's policies conflict with their core beliefs. This doesn't seem to me to be particular to France. Jews all over the world consider it their duty to defend Israel.

What seems to have happened is that the hatred for the policies of Israel has morphed into hatred for French Jews. Given France's history, each incident becomes a major talking point and is blown out of proportion. It's clear that in any country that has large Jewish and Arab populations there is going to be a problem. These two nations have been killing each other for half a century in Israel; it's only natural that that conflict will spill into other areas of the global village.

Still, I don't see the point in gloating about France's difficulties in handling this. The globalisation of the Palestinian conflict which is starting first in the countries with the biggest potential for conflict, is nothing to be happy about.

[DBursey]

It also has to do with the demographics of immigration, with a huge French influx of young, unemployed muslim men from Africa and the mideast.

[Spliffdaddy]

Well, let's just say that a good portion of the world is inclined to be skeptical whenever Europeans pretend to love Jews all of the sudden.

Call it a stereotype if you want. We all get stuck with one.


When the government of Mississippi decides to give every negro forty acres and a mule - YOU can be skeptical. mkay?


"well, sure, my grandpa lynched a few coloreds back in the day, but we feel different about 'em now."

"well, sure, my grandpa gassed a few Jews back in the day, but we feel different about 'em now."

[lil'babykitten]

Originally posted by Millennium:
The key is education and open discussion, not simply shouting these fiends down. Let them prove their own foolishness to the world, and they will do so.

That doesn't necessarily solve the problem either. Take the BNP for example, a racist, yet politically recognised party in the UK. A BBC reporter recently infiltrated the party and uncovered their shocking (but not surprising) racial prejudices and criminal activities, yet this is a party that is allowed to operate and has won several seats in elections. They thrive on the ignorance of a large part of the public and they only serve to ensure that such ignorance remains. The right to free speech is one thing, but inciting racial hatred and violence is a criminal act.

Simply letting such people prove their own foolishness to the world doesn't work when people are so misinformed. There is no easy solution to this. Education is definitely important but where is it right now?

[BRussell]

Originally posted by Troll:
The "anti-semitism" in France is quite different from the anti-semitism you see in other countries. In the US or Germany for example, anti-semitism is, for the most part, the work of neo-Nazis. In France, the tension has other sources.

I'm sure the neo-Nazis believe they are justified in their views just as much as the French Muslims feel they're justified in their views.

[Millennium]

Originally posted by lil'babykitten:
That doesn't necessarily solve the problem either.

What does it mean for this problem to be "solved", come to think of it? If this problem were to be solved, does that mean that racism would no longer exist? Would it continue to exist but be illegal, such that anyone who believed racist things would go to jail for that reason alone? Would it exist but cease to be relevant?

Take the BNP for example, a racist, yet politically recognised party in the UK. A BBC reporter recently infiltrated the party and uncovered their shocking (but not surprising) racial prejudices and criminal activities, yet this is a party that is allowed to operate and has won several seats in elections.

Freedom of association: should they be denied that right because of what they believe?

Simply letting such people prove their own foolishness to the world doesn't work when people are so misinformed. There is no easy solution to this. Education is definitely important but where is it right now?

If you believe the current system of education isn't adequate, then what are you doing -or failing that, what do you suggest be done- to improve it?

[PacHead]

France is going to have some huge problems in the future. That is my take on the issue.

[OldManMac]

Originally posted by PacHead:
France is going to have some huge problems in the future. That is my take on the issue.

Really? No kidding?

[PacHead]

Originally posted by KarlG:
Really? No kidding?

To many it is. I have always held this view, while many have written it off.

[Troll]

Originally posted by PacHead:
France is going to have some huge problems in the future. That is my take on the issue.

All countries in the world are going to have problems in the future. What we're learning is that the continued support by the West of Israel is drawing us into the conflict. Terrorist attacks against us are inspired by that conflict and now internal strife is motivated by that conflict. Things look bleak for all of us, not just France, unless we sort this problem out. That means sanctions against Israel IMHO. Israel needs to learn to get on with the Palestinians - the same way the apartheid government of South Africa had to learn to share power with blacks.

[Troll]

Originally posted by BRussell:
I'm sure the neo-Nazis believe they are justified in their views just as much as the French Muslims feel they're justified in their views.

No doubt, but the problem is not the same. In the wake of Sharon's bizarre statement that they should leave France, French Jews have finally raised their voices and draw a distinction between French Jews and Israelis. They now say that Sharon doesn't represent them, that they are French not Israeli. I think that if that message can be brought across to French Muslims, then the problem can be solved relatively quickly. If French Jews and Muslims can show solidarity in bringing an end to Israeli oppression and Palestinian terrorism, then things will improve here. Arab anger at Israel is justified as is Jewish anger at Palestinian terrorism. But those targets need to remain defined. French Jews are not Isralis and French Muslims are not Palestinian terrorists. In fact, even if they can't learn to get along, if both groups can remember that their enemies are overseas not next door, then things should be okay.

People shouldn't get the wrong idea though about France. Because people were shipped from Paris to the gas chambers, every incident here is blown out of proportion. I have a buddy from Algeria that I snowboard with. He's a devout Muslim and his best friend is a religious Jew. There's a very small minority of kids that feel that playing out the Palestinian conflict in the Paris banlieue is some moral act equivalent to the Resistance. Their anger needs to be guided and targeted at Israel, the state, rather than the Jewish religion. And I might mention that the opposite applies to. Jews need to realise that not every Arab is a terrorist.

[Logic]

Originally posted by Troll:
No doubt, but the problem is not the same. In the wake of Sharon's bizarre statement that they should leave France, French Jews have finally raised their voices and draw a distinction between French Jews and Israelis. They now say that Sharon doesn't represent them, that they are French not Israeli. I think that if that message can be brought across to French Muslims, then the problem can be solved relatively quickly. If French Jews and Muslims can show solidarity in bringing an end to Israeli oppression and Palestinian terrorism, then things will improve here. Arab anger at Israel is justified as is Jewish anger at Palestinian terrorism. But those targets need to remain defined. French Jews are not Isralis and French Muslims are not Palestinian terrorists. In fact, even if they can't learn to get along, if both groups can remember that their enemies are overseas not next door, then things should be okay.

People shouldn't get the wrong idea though about France. Because people were shipped from Paris to the gas chambers, every incident here is blown out of proportion. I have a buddy from Algeria that I snowboard with. He's a devout Muslim and his best friend is a religious Jew. There's a very small minority of kids that feel that playing out the Palestinian conflict in the Paris banlieue is some moral act equivalent to the Resistance. Their anger needs to be guided and targeted at Israel, the state, rather than the Jewish religion. And I might mention that the opposite applies to. Jews need to realise that not every Arab is a terrorist.

[dcolton]

Seems to me as if Chirac and Sharon have a little bad blood between the two for whatever reason.

[lil'babykitten]

Originally posted by Millennium:
What does it mean for this problem to be "solved", come to think of it? If this problem were to be solved, does that mean that racism would no longer exist?

No. To me this sort of racism has come about as a result of today's political circumstances. A lot of the xenophobia present in France and the UK right now has spun off from the whole issue of terrorism. It's raised more domestic problems such as asylum policy which has often resulted in racist outburst against foreigners. This sort of racism seems different to where it has derived from in the past. I think a lot of it is based on misinformation and misunderstanding, especially regarding religion.

People need to understand the issues and the people involved fully. This might be followed by a decrease in the number of people acting on their racial prejudices. Of course it's not going to result in racism in general disappearing all together, but it might do something to relieve the current tensions.

Originally posted by Millennium:
Would it continue to exist but be illegal, such that anyone who believed racist things would go to jail for that reason alone? Would it exist but cease to be relevant?

Inciting racial hatred already is illegal as far as I know, at least in Britain anyway. The Home Secretary has also proposed further law changes that deal with this issue. I don't think it's realistic to expect that we can get rid of racism altogether, yet. But we can introduce measures to deal with it's causes and repercussions more effectively.

Originally posted by Millennium:
Freedom of association: should they be denied that right because of what they believe?
If you believe the current system of education isn't adequate, then what are you doing -or failing that, what do you suggest be done- to improve it?

Education within schools etc etc can be improved of course but that's not what I am talking about. General public education - a role in which the media should play an important part but obviously fails miserably in many areas - is where work needs to be done. Intelligent, well-educated adults can still hold racial prejudices based on incomplete/manipulated information. The government can play a role in giving people a fuller picture of contemporary events, of course if it's in their interest to, which I think on the whole it is.

Essentially, I see the current racial tensions stemming from the unstable status of the world right now, with terrorism and war at the height of it all. You've probably been on this planet for 10-15 years longer than me and might have a different, more experienced outlook on this. But this is how I see things at the moment, with my ten or so years of experience

[Invictus]

Vive le France Libre!

[PacHead]

Originally posted by Troll:
All countries in the world are going to have problems in the future. What we're learning is that the continued support by the West of Israel is drawing us into the conflict. Terrorist attacks against us are inspired by that conflict and now internal strife is motivated by that conflict. Things look bleak for all of us, not just France, unless we sort this problem out. That means sanctions against Israel IMHO. Israel needs to learn to get on with the Palestinians - the same way the apartheid government of South Africa had to learn to share power with blacks.

Sorry, I don't share this view. Israel has palestinians living within it's borders. Isreal's goal is not the elimination of the palestinians, this could be accomplished relatively easy. Meanwhile, the palestinian goal is elimination of Israel, fronted by terror groups such as hamas.

Your statement that Israel needs to leran to get on with the palestinians, is like saying the jews in WW2 needed to learn to get along with the nazis, aint gonna happen. The palestinians could have had their miserable state in 1948, instead they and other arabs chose war, time and time again. Frankly, I don't give a crap about them. They are the aggressors, and they need to stop whining, and solve their own problems. Blowing up innocents is not part of the solution, by the way. The whole palestinian leadership is basically corrupt and terror supporters, that's why the USA has written off arafat, because he is a waste of time and irrelevent.

Trying to turn this into a comparison with south africa and apartheid is just silly. The wall is to keep murderers out, as opposed to the commie berlin wall which kept people in.

[angaq0k]

"I would simply recall that France is today certainly the country with the strictest legislation on all problems of racism." - Defense Minister Michele Alliot-Marie

And whats wrong with that?

MIllenium: What do you do when don't care about the talking?

[villalobos]

FYI, Sharon is now persona non grata in France until he explains his statement. This statement was very Bush-esque i.e. very dumb and uneducated (as illustrated there.

villa

[villalobos]

yeah France probably has the only real church and state separation in the civilized world. That's it. If you can handle that that's too bad for you religious zealots. Feel free to emigrate.

Interestingly, everybody in France, including the Jewish community leaders criticized Sharon's statement. It seems like only the Bush/Sharon apologists on this forums think that should be noticed.

As usual, you people amuse me.

villa

[macvillage.net]

Originally posted by PacHead:
France is going to have some huge problems in the future. That is my take on the issue.

So is the US.

The hate crime averages for France aren't really out of line with the US.

They just aren't proportional to Europe, where things have been calming down in recent decades.

[Spliffdaddy]

Keep hiding from the problem, France. Ignore it, downplay it, pretend it's not so bad.

Sounds familiar. Strangely familiar.

[villalobos]

Originally posted by Spliffdaddy:
Keep hiding from the problem, France. Ignore it, downplay it, pretend it's not so bad.

Sounds familiar. Strangely familiar.

They are actually not hiding from the problem. they are actually addressing the problem with legislation, and by making hate crime and hate speech illegal. You seem a little confused and overwhelmed with that concept Spliffdaddy. That's ok, we are here to help you.

[Spliffdaddy]

"...Shalom Ouaki is a Tunisian-born Jew who came to France as a boy. But he said he wants to leave the country because of anti-Semitism.

Two weeks ago, his son was badly beaten by a group of North African boys. They taunted him with anti-Semitic remarks and tore his skullcap from his head.

Ouaki said he is harassed every day. "I have to deal with the insults, the spitting as I pass, the aggressive body language," he said. "I always feel ill at ease walking in my neighborhood."

Muslims and Jews often live side-by-side in and around Paris.

Groups working to combat the problem say poor, jobless men from North Africa often take out their anger on Jews.

"Without a doubt, anti-Semitism is increasing in our country," said anti-racism campaigner Nasser Ramdane. "Those who deny it have no idea what they're talking about.""

full text>
http://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/europe...ron/index.html

(this short diversion from the usual anti-American topics was brought to you by friends of Spliffdaddy)

[BRussell]

When I was in college, about 14 years ago, I was in Paris with my Lebanese girlfriend and some young French punk spit on her. He was in a group of about 6 and I didn't do anything because I was scared, and she just kept walking to not get into a fight. She said it wasn't all that uncommon. It's the only time I'd been in France, and it was the first or second day I'd been there.

[Troll]

Originally posted by BRussell:
When I was in college, about 14 years ago, I was in Paris with my Lebanese girlfriend and some young French punk spit on her. He was in a group of about 6 and I didn't do anything because I was scared, and she just kept walking to not get into a fight. She said it wasn't all that uncommon. It's the only time I'd been in France, and it was the first or second day I'd been there.

I assume he gave a reason for spitting on her?

I walk the streets of Paris every day and every night with Jews and Arabs. Never once has an Arab friend of mine been spat on or a Jewish friend of mine harassed. That doesn't mean there isn't a rise in the level of tension, but let's keep some perspective here. The figures are 500 incidents last year and another 500 odd so far the last 6 months.

[macvillage.net]

Originally posted by Troll:
I assume he gave a reason for spitting on her?

I walk the streets of Paris every day and every night with Jews and Arabs. Never once has an Arab friend of mine been spat on or a Jewish friend of mine harassed. That doesn't mean there isn't a rise in the level of tension, but let's keep some perspective here. The figures are 500 incidents last year and another 500 odd so far the last 6 months.

That's the strange thing. It's not out of proportion.

It's just Sharon is being an opportunist. He needs to show growth of population in his country before elections roll around.

[Logic]

Originally posted by macvillage.net:
That's the strange thing. It's not out of proportion.

It's just Sharon is being an opportunist. He needs to show growth of population in his country before elections roll around.

And it's also a desperate attempt to keep a Jewish majority in Israel since the Arab(muslim and christian) population is growing so fast that there won't be a Jewish majority within maybe just over a decade or so. Unless they import foreigners to force the Jewish state to survive.

[Millennium]

Originally posted by villalobos:
They are actually not hiding from the problem. they are actually addressing the problem with legislation, and by making hate crime and hate speech illegal.

The problem is, that doesn't work, never has, and never will. Punishing beliefs only makes them stronger; it's the way of human emotion.

[Troll]

Originally posted by Millennium:
The problem is, that doesn't work, never has, and never will. Punishing beliefs only makes them stronger; it's the way of human emotion.

What do you propose be done then? I thought that all a state can do is spend tax money to promote understanding and pass laws to punish those who don't understand. If that isn't good enough, then we can't blame the state really, can we?

[macvillage.net]

Originally posted by Troll:
What do you propose be done then? I thought that all a state can do is spend tax money to promote understanding and pass laws to punish those who don't understand. If that isn't good enough, then we can't blame the state really, can we?

The difference between France and the rest of Europe is it's perspective on other ethnicities.

Because of colonial ties, and WWI/WWII most other Europian countries have signifigant non-europian residents. British in particular since they colonized so much, but so do the Dutch (Indian, Turkish, Indonesian) and Spanish among others...


The difference is that the Jewish and Muslim population in France is very segregated... and this segregation is allowed.

France will bark when a Frenchman only sells appartments to French people, and excludes Jews...

But if a Jewish person only sells his home to other Jews... that's perfectly Ok. Nobody would dare to confront that. Nor a Muslim in a Muslim community.

As a result, you get these hate filled environments, that will clash.

The US has it's share of these areas as well... places where people do this in excess have this problem.


These groups spend their whole lives hearing only bad about the other side... and when they become adults and finally meet the other side, they do what their society tells them to do: attack each other.


We have this in the US as well.


Heck here in the NYC area, we have gone so far as seeing hate crimes commited by Jewish people against other Jewish people Hasidic and Orthodox often don't get along... each claiming to be 'the only real Jewish people'.... after being raised with hatred... they go out and 'defend their honor and faith'.

It's still a 'hate crime' even though they don't like to call it that.

Christians aren't innocent... they do this BS as well, it's just not as accepted.

I personally blame the community that continues to allow this to breed on both sides. They know the problem exists... but they allow it. And bark when the other side takes a swing.



And of course you have Muslim and Jewish people in France (as well as the US), who are perfectly normal functioning, tolerant people in society... who would never cause any problem, or express themselves in any crime of this type (or feel the need to). That's the bulk of them.


France could tackle the problem... but through tough love.

France is going after only a small part (the neo-nazi's). That's a tiny fraction of the problem taking place. This is recipricating hatred between a few parties. Until you stop it from all directions, it's not going away.


If france made a showcase of a few people on all sides, with severe penalties... I'd bet this would drop off somewhat quick. A few people are going to need to do some hard time for a bulk of their natural lives... but that will level things off.



When NYC started cracking down on housing discrimination... hate crimes also dropped, as neighborhoods weren't as segregated. The coorilation isn't accidental.

[BRussell]

Originally posted by Troll:
I assume he gave a reason for spitting on her?

I walk the streets of Paris every day and every night with Jews and Arabs. Never once has an Arab friend of mine been spat on or a Jewish friend of mine harassed. That doesn't mean there isn't a rise in the level of tension, but let's keep some perspective here. The figures are 500 incidents last year and another 500 odd so far the last 6 months.

Yeah, he calmly explained to us his rationale and offered to provide us with additional material if we wished to learn more about his philosophy.

I'm not saying that my one experience points to any broader trends, and it was almost 15 years ago. But I've spent a grand total of about 10 days in France, and that was one of the things that happened.

[Millennium]

Originally posted by Troll:
What do you propose be done then? I thought that all a state can do is spend tax money to promote understanding and pass laws to punish those who don't understand. If that isn't good enough, then we can't blame the state really, can we?

"Punishing those who don't understand" is punishing belief. Racism may be fiendish, but it has as much of a fundamental right to exist as any other belief.

What should the state do, then? Promote understanding. Some people will slip through the cracks; this is not the state's problem unless they actually start hurting people, which is already illegal for other reasons and so there is no need to tack on special punishments on account of the person's beliefs.

[lil'babykitten]

Originally posted by Millennium:
Racism may be fiendish, but it has as much of a fundamental right to exist as any other belief.

[Logic]

Originally posted by Millennium:
Racism may be fiendish, but it has as much of a fundamental right to exist as any other belief.

[Troll]

Originally posted by BRussell:
Yeah, he calmly explained to us his rationale and offered to provide us with additional material if we wished to learn more about his philosophy.

I'm not saying that my one experience points to any broader trends, and it was almost 15 years ago. But I've spent a grand total of about 10 days in France, and that was one of the things that happened.

I think you missed my point. What I'm saying is that, from what you said, you don't know that those guys spat on her because she's an Arab. There are enough kids in any city that are just looking for trouble ... irrespective of who they start it with. Paris is no exception. With 6 million people in a small area, you're bound to bump into some of the scum.

[Taliesin]

Originally posted by BRussell:
I'm sure the neo-Nazis believe they are justified in their views just as much as the French Muslims feel they're justified in their views.

No, actually the Nazis feel/felt much more justified, because their ideology outrightly declared/declares them to be the superior race on the planet and that it would be the number-one-priority to ensure that that race doesn't get mixed with other races. Additionaly it is declared that every other race has no rights compared with the "superior race", and that every mean is justified to ensure the "cleanness" of the superior race...

Compare that with the islamic religion and the Quran, in which the jews and christians are espescially pointed out as the "people of the book" that should be respected and protected when under islamic reign...

Yes, between muslims and jews are tensions because Israel is leading war against the arabs and terrorising, oppressing, driving out and stealing land...

But once that conflict is enpeaced and solved (preferably with a democratic state in which both israelis and palestinians can live together and in which both groups have equal rights) the tensions will vanish, so God will..

Taliesin

[PacHead]

Originally posted by Taliesin:


But once that conflict is enpeaced and solved (preferably with a democratic state in which both israelis and palestinians can live together and in which both groups have equal rights) the tensions will vanish, so God will..

Taliesin

I believe a single state solution is just another scheme in wiping out Israel. They've tried conventional wars countless times, they've tried terrorism, so now some want a single state. This will never happen. We all know their motives, as they say such all of the time.
Let them have their own state, if they ever get this, but a single state ? haha

Talk about a trojan horse. People are not that stupid.

[BRussell]

Originally posted by Troll:
I think you missed my point. What I'm saying is that, from what you said, you don't know that those guys spat on her because she's an Arab. There are enough kids in any city that are just looking for trouble ... irrespective of who they start it with. Paris is no exception. With 6 million people in a small area, you're bound to bump into some of the scum.

Maybe you just had to be there. I think it was absolutely clear what was going on, but yeah, I can't prove it.

[Troll]

Originally posted by BRussell:
Maybe you just had to be there. I think it was absolutely clear what was going on, but yeah, I can't prove it.

I'll take your word for it then. With the biggest Muslim population of any country in Europe, a kid that wants to spit on Arabs is going to have to develop big saliva glands!

[Taliesin]

Originally posted by PacHead:
I believe a single state solution is just another scheme in wiping out Israel.

Yes, it is exactly that. If there will be a single-state-solution, then the political state Israel as a special state for jews would be gone obviously.

Taliesin

[Sherwin]

Hitler's Mein Kampf currently ranks sixth on the best-seller list among Palestinian Arabs

Is anyone really surprised?

Odds on there'll be a fairly major ethnic cleansing happening again in Europe by 2050. You heard it here first.

[PacHead]

Originally posted by Taliesin:
If there will be a single-state-solution, . . . . . . .
Taliesin

This will never happen. As I stated, people are aware of this trojan horse scheme that certain people are trying to pull.

[Logic]

Originally posted by Sherwin:
Hitler's Mein Kampf currently ranks sixth on the best-seller list among Palestinian Arabs

Is anyone really surprised?

Odds on there'll be a fairly major ethnic cleansing happening again in Europe by 2050. You heard it here first.

First paragraph:

1. Great site

2. No footnotes or anything to verify the claim?

Second paragraph.

no

Third paragraph:

Yup, very true. Only it won't be the same people as last time. And again the Europeans are blind to what's happening.

[Logic]

Originally posted by PacHead:
This will never happen. As I stated, people are aware of this trojan horse scheme that certain people are trying to pull.

What would be so terrible about a one state solution?

[Sherwin]

Originally posted by Logic:
Yup, very true. Only it won't be the same people as last time.

True.

Originally posted by Logic:
And again the Europeans are blind to what's happening.

Yep. Hostilities won't start until the particular population of a European country outnumbers the rest and uses democracy to switch to their own non-democratic version of "the law". That country will be lost (or gained, depending on your viewpoint). All other countries will be forced to take action and the sh*tstorm will start.

2050 at the latest.