Welcome to the MacNN Forums.

Logic · Jul 29, 2004, 07:10 PM

daimoni · 11:43 AM

.

macvillage.net · Jul 30, 2004, 05:50 AM

THis is the quote I keep seeing that scares me the most:

Even so, over 40% of the general population would support the detention of Arabs and Muslims without the evidence to prosecute them.

When you change it to:

Even so, over 40% of the general population would support the detention individuals without the evidence to prosecute them.

It drops to only a few percent.

The fact that's even a question just shows how 'free' America views itself.

lil'babykitten · Jul 30, 2004, 05:56 AM

They found 49% of the general population would support the increased surveillance of Arab Americans.

After reading that, one could conclude that 49% of the American population are ignorant fools.

y0y0 · Jul 30, 2004, 08:01 AM

Is that the same number of Americans who managed to think that Saddam had ICBM's pointed at the USA?

dcolton · Jul 30, 2004, 08:10 AM

Not much of an article , huh. But it sure gives some people the opportunity to dream up the worst. Arabs have nothing to fear.

Logic · Jul 30, 2004, 08:12 AM

Originally posted by dcolton:
Arabs have nothing to fear.

So they don't have to fear that 49% of the fellow citizens support locking them up without probable cause? They don't have to fear the 50%(or was it 100%) increase in attacks on Arabs and Muslims? Why shouldn't they worry about that?

dcolton · Jul 30, 2004, 08:21 AM

Originally posted by Logic:
So they don't have to fear that 49% of the fellow citizens support locking them up without probable cause? They don't have to fear the 50%(or was it 100%) increase in attacks on Arabs and Muslims? Why shouldn't they worry about that?

You are reading a report on the BBC that is vague and useless. What were the questions asked? HOw did they ask these questions. How scientific was the study? It is all BS. BS. BS. But I do't know, I only live in the states. YOur talking like their is some sort of epedemic of violence against muslims in the states and that clearly is untrue.

Actually, who cares. Make **** up in your mind. thnk the worst. YOU, LBK, yoyo, and macvillage can continue to hate America. I am moving on. This is a non story.

undotwa · Jul 30, 2004, 08:24 AM

Originally posted by Logic:
So they don't have to fear that 49% of the fellow citizens support locking them up without probable cause? They don't have to fear the 50%(or was it 100%) increase in attacks on Arabs and Muslims? Why shouldn't they worry about that?

Your posts contains too many percentages to be true.

lil'babykitten · Jul 30, 2004, 08:31 AM

Originally posted by dcolton:
You are reading a report on the BBC that is vague and useless. What were the questions asked? HOw did they ask these questions. How scientific was the study? It is all BS. BS. BS. But I do't know, I only live in the states. YOur talking like their is some sort of epedemic of violence against muslims in the states and that clearly is untrue.

....Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah......

So attacks against Muslims in the US has not increased lately?

You don't trust the BBC article? Why don't you do some research to verify it? Or do you just want to continue to believe that all is fine and dandy?

Why were you so quick to believe the article that talked about a rise in anti-semitic attacks in France, but you're cautious about "anti-Arab" attacks in the US? Hmm?

Are you one of the 49% of ignorant fools in the US?

lil'babykitten · Jul 30, 2004, 08:33 AM

Originally posted by undotwa:
Your posts contains too many percentages to be true.

Whatchoo talkin' aboot?!

dcolton · Jul 30, 2004, 08:37 AM

Originally posted by lil'babykitten:
So attacks against Muslims in the US has not increased lately?

No. Define attacks. Someone spray painting a mosque? Bodily harm? Death? Trust me, an Arabn or muslim getting attacked, in any city...in any way would be big news. It just isn;t happening. SOrry to et you down, but it just is not happening.

You don't trust the BBC article? Why don't you do some research to verify it? Or do you just want to continue to believe that all is fine and dandy?

Are you trying to tell me you hhave a better ideal of whats going on the the states than I do. Have you ever been to the states? Here is a hint: The internet is not a location.

Why were you so quick to believe the article that talked about a rise in anti-semitic attacks in France, but you're cautious about "anti-Arab" attacks in the US? Hmm?

I don't recall participating in that conversation. Probably for the same reason.

Are you one of the 49% of ignorant fools in the US?

Are you one of the 99% of ignorant europeans that rely on the 49% of ignorant american fools?

Logic · Jul 30, 2004, 08:44 AM

Originally posted by dcolton:
You are reading a report on the BBC that is vague and useless. What were the questions asked? HOw did they ask these questions. How scientific was the study? It is all BS. BS. BS. But I do't know, I only live in the states. YOur talking like their is some sort of epedemic of violence against muslims in the states and that clearly is untrue.

Actually, who cares. Make **** up in your mind. thnk the worst. YOU, LBK, yoyo, and macvillage can continue to hate America. I am moving on. This is a non story.

Would the final report itself be better for you?

http://www.isr.umich.edu/news/arab-a...nal-report.pdf

dcolton · Jul 30, 2004, 08:48 AM

Originally posted by Logic:
Would the final report itself be better for you?

http://www.isr.umich.edu/news/arab-a...nal-report.pdf

Have you read the entire report or did you just pick out numbers to make you feel good? Grow up and quit believeing everything you read just because you agree with it.

ebuddy · Jul 30, 2004, 08:49 AM

I think the "49%" establishes the fact that we are pretty much ALL in fear for our families since 9/11.

The good news is; we've not been attacked since. I don't hate Arabs, I'll even fly with them. Knowing what percentage of our population they constitute; I may not fly with 5-8 of them on one flight. You can call that racist, I call it discernment.

BTW, does this alleged increase in Arab discrimination take into account the number of grey-haired old caucasion ladies I see brought forth from their wheelchairs for pat-downs at the terminal?

Is all this the average American's fault? Please don't let U.S. statistics bother you, rather take a local look around. Racism in the UK and elsewhere on the rise. I believe the British call it Islamophobia.

lil'babykitten · Jul 30, 2004, 08:53 AM

Originally posted by dcolton:
No. Define attacks. Someone spray painting a mosque? Bodily harm? Death? Trust me, an Arabn or muslim getting attacked, in any city...in any way would be big news. It just isn;t happening. SOrry to et you down, but it just is not happening.

Are you trying to tell me you hhave a better ideal of whats going on the the states than I do. Have you ever been to the states? Here is a hint: The internet is not a location.

D-E-N-I-A-L!

Read the report, which was researched by one of your beloved American universities. I'm sure you know what's going on in every state and I'm sure FOX's "Fair and Balanced" news reports the rising attacks against Muslims.

Originally posted by dcolton:
Are you one of the 99% of ignorant europeans that rely on the 49% of ignorant american fools?

You didn't answer my question. Where'd you get the 99% from anyway? Your ass?

dcolton · Jul 30, 2004, 08:56 AM

Originally posted by lil'babykitten:
D-E-N-I-A-L!

Read the report, which was researched by one of your beloved American universities. I'm sure you know what's going on in every state and I'm sure FOX's "Fair and Balanced" news reports the rising attacks against Muslims.

You didn't answer my question. Where'd you get the 99% from anyway? Your ass?

Did I read somewhere you are part Arab part English?

What color is your hair?

Logic · Jul 30, 2004, 09:00 AM

Originally posted by dcolton:
Did I read somewhere you are part Arab part English?

What color is your hair?

And that is important to you why?

lil'babykitten · Jul 30, 2004, 09:00 AM

Originally posted by dcolton:
Did I read somewhere you are part Arab part English?

What color is your hair?

Is this where I'm supposed to post that ASL image again?!

dcolton · Jul 30, 2004, 09:12 AM

Originally posted by Logic:
And that is important to you why?

It's not. Just don't feel like arguing with foreigners about the status of my nation. Where I live. Where I see far more attacks on Jews, blacks, and gays (albeit far and few between) than attacks on arabs and muslims. I am tired of foreigners telling me my nation isnt truly free when we enjoy freedoms that many other nations dream of.

We were attacked on 9/11. We are in a state of war and readiness while we try to maintain the integrety of the constitution. It is not an easy thing to do when our enemy uses the veil of Islam for its cowardly attacks. It is not easy to do when Muslims dance in the streets after the death of Americans and criticize every effort the US makes to bring peace and stability to the world. It is not easy to do when muslims continually point fingers and blame blame blame instead of taking responsibility for their actions and instead of offering solutions...or even making an attempt to compromise.

But I will say this...no matter what you think, we are doing a pretty good damned job. We are able to look beyond the hate and silliness of muslims and their terrorist counterparts and move forward in a society where muslims, sikhs, christians, Jews and even devil worshippers can PROUDLY practice their faith...without fear.

Logic · Jul 30, 2004, 09:17 AM

I take it you took a quick look at the report and noticed that your beloved nation faces the same challenges as many other nations around the world. That is an increase in xenophobia and racism. It's ok, 'em bad Arab Muslims aren't all out to get you............

lil'babykitten · Jul 30, 2004, 09:26 AM

Originally posted by dcolton:
It's not. Just don't feel like arguing with foreigners about the status of my nation. Where I live. Where I see far more attacks on Jews, blacks, and gays (albeit far and few between) than attacks on arabs and muslims. I am tired of foreigners telling me my nation isnt truly free when we enjoy freedoms that many other nations dream of.

It's ironic that you talk of all this 'freedom' you have, yet you don't want others to exercise their freedom to express an opinion. It's also typically close-minded of you. God forbid someone question the almighty US.

You are one person with his eyes shut in a huge country Just because you might not see such attacks occurring, doesn't mean they aren't. That's why you need to expand your horizons.

Originally posted by dcolton:
We were attacked on 9/11. We are in a state of war and readiness while we try to maintain the integrety of the constitution. It is not an easy thing to do when our enemy uses the veil of Islam for its cowardly attacks. It is not easy to do when Muslims dance in the streets after the death of Americans and criticize every effort the US makes to bring peace and stability to the world. It is not easy to do when muslims continually point fingers and blame blame blame instead of taking responsibility for their actions and instead of offering solutions...or even making an attempt to compromise.

Perhaps if you actually kept your noses out of Muslim countries, they wouldn't have a problem with you. Do you really think you were attacked just for the hell of it? US explotative foreign policy in the Middle-East all these years had nothing to do with it? Many Muslims are sick and tired of losing their loved ones in wars that the US starts with them. And you wonder why they blame you?

Originally posted by dcolton:
But I will say this...no matter what you think, we are doing a pretty good damned job. We are able to look beyond the hate and silliness of muslims and their terrorist counterparts and move forward in a society where muslims, sikhs, christians, Jews and even devil worshippers can PROUDLY practice their faith...without fear.

Yes, you're doing a pretty good damned job at ****ing the world up.

dcolton · Jul 30, 2004, 09:39 AM

Originally posted by lil'babykitten:
It's ironic that you talk of all this 'freedom' you have, yet you don't want others to exercise their freedom to express an opinion. It's also typically close-minded of you. God forbid someone question the almighty US.

You are one person with his eyes shut in a huge country Just because you might not see such attacks occurring, doesn't mean they aren't. That's why you need to expand your horizons. [/b]

How am I not letting anyone express their opinion? Perhaps you should kindly STFU and look in your own backyard.

Perhaps if you actually kept your noses out of Muslim countries, they wouldn't have a problem with you. Do you really think you were attacked just for the hell of it? US explotative foreign policy in the Middle-East all these years had nothing to do with it? Many Muslims are sick and tired of losing their loved ones in wars that the US starts with them. And you wonder why they blame you?

Are you saying 9/11 was justified. Are you saying you supportted it? Are you one of the muslims I saw celebrating the deaths of innocent americans?

Yes, you're doing a pretty good damned job at ****ing the world up.

Rock, glass house. How is it going over their in the UK...our strongest ally in the war on terror?

Logic · Jul 30, 2004, 09:42 AM

Originally posted by dcolton:
How am I not letting anyone express their opinion? Perhaps you should kindly STFU and look in your own backyard.

Read those two sentences again!

Are you saying 9/11 was justified. Are you saying you supportted it? Are you one of the muslims I saw celebrating the deaths of innocent americans?

I think you've asked both me and teh kitten those questions often enough.

Rock, glass house. How is it going over their in the UK...our strongest ally in the war on terror?

Living in a country doesn't mean that you are from that country.

dcolton · Jul 30, 2004, 09:51 AM

Originally posted by Logic:
Read those two sentences again!

I think you've asked both me and teh kitten those questions often enough.

Living in a country doesn't mean that you are from that country.

Mind your own business.

What kills me is that you are two white bread muslims living in the western world criticizing everything western. You don't know what it is like to be a true muslim. You guys probably don't even practice your religion until it is time to spout out a few passages from the Quran on macnn. YOu want to talk root causes and so on, yet you probably have never stepped foot into a muslim nation...why?

Could it be that you fear Arabs and muslims equally? Could it be that you don't wish to live in the confines of an Islamic society? Could it be that you enjoy FREEDOM?

Logic · Jul 30, 2004, 09:57 AM

Originally posted by dcolton:
Mind your own business.

What kills me is that you are two white bread muslims living in the western world criticizing everything western. You don't know what it is like to be a true muslim. You guys probably don't even practice your religion until it is time to spout out a few passages from the Quran on macnn. YOu want to talk root causes and so on, yet you probably have never stepped foot into a muslim nation...why?

Do I need to be a "sandniggah" or "towelhead" for you to view me as a true Muslim? You have no idea what you are talking about........ And I've never been in a Muslim nation? Well perhaps you should take that up with the Muslims living in Bosnia and the 100% Muslim villages and cities I went to protect. I'm sure they agree that they weren't a Muslim nation.

Could it be that you fear Arabs and muslims equally? Could it be that you don't wish to live in the confines of an Islamic society? Could it be that you enjoy FREEDOM?

Equally as what? You? Americans? Xenophobic fools in the western world? And you have no idea where I want to live and what helps me decide where I want to live, so perhaps you should tone it down a notch

dcolton · Jul 30, 2004, 10:02 AM

Originally posted by Logic:
So perhaps you should tone it down a notch

Trust me...I did!

Logic · Jul 30, 2004, 10:10 AM

Originally posted by dcolton:
Trust me...I did!

Why so hostile? Does it have anything to do with me being Muslim? Aren't you just proving the report to be correct?

Spliffdaddy · Jul 30, 2004, 10:11 AM

Originally posted by dcolton:
Mind your own business.

What kills me is that you are two white bread muslims living in the western world criticizing everything western. You don't know what it is like to be a true muslim. You guys probably don't even practice your religion until it is time to spout out a few passages from the Quran on macnn. YOu want to talk root causes and so on, yet you probably have never stepped foot into a muslim nation...why?

Could it be that you fear Arabs and muslims equally? Could it be that you don't wish to live in the confines of an Islamic society? Could it be that you enjoy FREEDOM?

Direct hit.

dcolton · Jul 30, 2004, 10:26 AM

Originally posted by Logic:
Why so hostile? Does it have anything to do with me being Muslim? Aren't you just proving the report to be correct?

Today is my bitter day! Deal with it.

Logic · Jul 30, 2004, 10:47 AM

Originally posted by Spliffdaddy:
Direct hit.

Where's my smackdown award for my reply to his post? Oh yeah, smackdowns handed out by you only go to right wing nuts.......

Logic · Jul 30, 2004, 10:48 AM

Originally posted by dcolton:
Today is my bitter day! Deal with it.

Perhaps you should step away from the computer and do something creative. Perhaps read a book or something. I recommend you study the Quran, it will probably help you.

dcolton · Jul 30, 2004, 10:51 AM

Originally posted by Logic:
Where's my smackdown award for my reply to his post? Oh yeah, smackdowns handed out by you only go to right wing nuts.......

Just like bannination and forced breaks are non-existent for left wing commies.

Perhaps you should step away from the computer and do something creative. Perhaps read a book or something. I recommend you study the Quran, it will probably help you.

Perhaps. But I will stick with the Holy Bible...the TRUE word of God.

Logic · Jul 30, 2004, 11:07 AM

Originally posted by dcolton:
Just like bannination and forced breaks are non-existent for left wing commies.

Do we have left wing commies here? Could you tell me who they are since I've never seen one here.

Perhaps. But I will stick with the Holy Bible...the TRUE word of God.

Of course you stick to what you know, otherwise you might learn something

lil'babykitten · Jul 30, 2004, 11:10 AM

Originally posted by dcolton:
How am I not letting anyone express their opinion? Perhaps you should kindly STFU and look in your own backyard.

ROFL! Damnit, you really are a complete moron!

Originally posted by dcolton:
Are you saying 9/11 was justified. Are you saying you supportted it? Are you one of the muslims I saw celebrating the deaths of innocent americans?

Yeah that's it, I was the one with the bright blue and pink hair

Originally posted by dcolton:
How is it going over their in the UK...our strongest ally in the war on terror?

Well, the weather is surprisingly good. Unfortunately, the attacks against Muslims (that you deny to acknowledge) here have risen just as they have in the US.

And as for all your other wild theories about me in your other sh1t filled post, you couldn't be more wrong! The UK is not my homeland, and I'm glad it isn't.

dcolton · Jul 30, 2004, 11:20 AM

Originally posted by lil'babykitten:
Yeah that's it, I was the one with the bright blue and pink hair

Thought so. Blue and pink hair...no wonder you don't live in the ME.

Well, the weather is surprisingly good. Unfortunately, the attacks against Muslims (that you deny to acknowledge) here have risen just as they have in the US.[/B]

Yeah, I am sure muslims would be a whole hell of a lot safer here in the states.

BRussell · Jul 30, 2004, 11:31 AM

The report says that twice as many Detroit Arabs have gotten encouragement from non-Arabs than have had bad treatment:

Fifteen percent say that, since 9/11, they personally had a bad experience due to their ethnicity. These experiences included verbal insults, workplace discrimination, special targeting by law enforcement or airport security, vandalism, and in rare cases, vehicular and physical assault. A third also say they received gestures of support from non-Arabs after the attacks.

Logic · Jul 30, 2004, 11:35 AM

Originally posted by BRussell:
The report says that twice as many Detroit Arabs have gotten encouragement from non-Arabs than have had bad treatment:

Yup, and that is good to hear. But dcolton said we shouldn't trust this report so perhaps it's wrong

BRussell · Jul 30, 2004, 11:49 AM

Another interesting thing is that 56% of Arabs support increased surveillance of US citizens, whereas 52% of the general population supports it. So Arabs are slightly more likely to want increased surveillance. But then just 17% of Arabs want increased surveillance of Arabs, whereas 49% of the general population wants increased surveillance of Arabs.

I suppose it makes some sense, in that Arab-Americans want more security, but they just don't want to be targeted themselves. But it just puts that "half of Americans want to take away Arabs' liberties" in some context: Arabs want increased police powers just as much, if not more, than the general population.

dcolton · Jul 30, 2004, 11:55 AM

Originally posted by Logic:
Yup, and that is good to hear. But dcolton said we shouldn't trust this report so perhaps it's wrong

Glad your paying attention. Now think about it. It was a limited study dealing with arabs in detroit...nowhere else AND, as far as I can tell, this was done by students (could be wrong, but can't find anything to lead me to believe otherwise).

Why should I believe or take as fact any random article you present when it is obvious your only concern is to bash the states and demonize anything and anyone who isn't muslim or sympathetic to terrorists and the Islamic faith.

macvillage.net · Jul 30, 2004, 11:57 AM

Originally posted by dcolton:
Have you read the entire report or did you just pick out numbers to make you feel good? Grow up and quit believeing everything you read just because you agree with it.

meanwhile we can take your KKK propeganda as fact?

dcolton · Jul 30, 2004, 12:00 PM

Originally posted by macvillage.net:
meanwhile we can take your KKK propeganda as fact?

lol. I don't think the KKK would let me into their organization.

BRussell · Jul 30, 2004, 12:18 PM

Originally posted by dcolton:
Glad your paying attention. Now think about it. It was a limited study dealing with arabs in detroit...nowhere else AND, as far as I can tell, this was done by students (could be wrong, but can't find anything to lead me to believe otherwise).

Why should I believe or take as fact any random article you present when it is obvious your only concern is to bash the states and demonize anything and anyone who isn't muslim or sympathetic to terrorists and the Islamic faith.

The Institute for Social Research at UM is probably the most respected survey research center there is. And it wasn't done by students; all of the directors of the research were PhDs in sociology/political science and related fields.

dcolton · Jul 30, 2004, 12:35 PM

Originally posted by BRussell:
The Institute for Social Research at UM is probably the most respected survey research center there is. And it wasn't done by students; all of the directors of the research were PhDs in sociology/political science and related fields.

Like I said, I could be wrong...

BUt how conclusive can a study in one metro area be? I guarantee you the Arabs in Kentucky have a different outlook than the arabs in Detroit. I guarantee that ANY offense against a muslim, whether motivated by hate or not, is reported as a hate crime in this report. At any rate, I don't know what America you live in...but the Detroit metro area does not define all of the America I live in.

gorgonzola · Jul 30, 2004, 01:04 PM

Try to avoid personal attacks, please...

OldManMac · Jul 30, 2004, 01:11 PM

Originally posted by dcolton:
Like I said, I could be wrong...

BUt how conclusive can a study in one metro area be? I guarantee you the Arabs in Kentucky have a different outlook than the arabs in Detroit. I guarantee that ANY offense against a muslim, whether motivated by hate or not, is reported as a hate crime in this report. At any rate, I don't know what America you live in...but the Detroit metro area does not define all of the America I live in.

Dearborn/Detroit just happens to have the largest concentration of Arabs in the United States. There are more Arabs there than any other city in the world, outside of actual Arab countries, so, although you could no doubt find an Arab in Kentucky, I think you'd have to look very hard. Please do some real research before you make judgements. Because you haven't seen it, doesn't make it so.

dcolton · Jul 30, 2004, 01:30 PM

Originally posted by KarlG:
Dearborn/Detroit just happens to have the largest concentration of Arabs in the United States. There are more Arabs there than any other city in the world, outside of actual Arab countries, so, although you could no doubt find an Arab in Kentucky, I think you'd have to look very hard. Please do some real research before you make judgements. Because you haven't seen it, doesn't make it so.

Please do some real research before you make silly comments. Kentucky has quite a few arabs and welcomes many more on a regular basis.

Yes, I realize that the Detroit Metro area has quite an arab population, but that number is far less than the total Arab population in the states. Do you think attitudes are the same throughout the nbation? Do you believe that southerns have a different culture than northerners? Do you think the culture is different in KY than in CA?

You know damn well that this study is a study of Arabs in the Detroit Metro area and cannot be applied to the Muslim/ Arab experience throughout the nation.

OldManMac · Jul 30, 2004, 01:44 PM

I stand corrected on the Arab populations in the U. S. I remember at one time, reading an article that metro Detroit had the highest number, but that apparently has changed. However, your assertion about the different cultures in one region versus another, has nothing to do with Arabs being discriminated against. That happens no matter what region they are in, and that's simply because people have a tendency to be suspicious of those who are "different." I don't know "damn well" that discrimination is practiced, or not, because of the region. I would think that Californians are just as angry over 9/11 as Kentuckians. In the climate of post 9/11, Arabs nationwide have reported being discriminated against because they look different. There have been cases reported by groups, such as the Sikh, who are not even Muslims, but who are singled out simply because they wear turbans.

dcolton · Jul 30, 2004, 02:06 PM

Originally posted by KarlG:
However, your assertion about the different cultures in one region versus another, has nothing to do with Arabs being discriminated against. That happens no matter what region they are in, and that's simply because people have a tendency to be suspicious of those who are "different." I don't know "damn well" that discrimination is practiced, or not, because of the region. I would think that Californians are just as angry over 9/11 as Kentuckians. In the climate of post 9/11, Arabs nationwide have reported being discriminated against because they look different. There have been cases reported by groups, such as the Sikh, who are not even Muslims, but who are singled out simply because they wear turbans.

When does anger over 9/11 equate to discrimination and racism towards Arabs?

And I am sorry...but culture is MUCH different in CA than in KY.

dcolton · Jul 30, 2004, 02:11 PM

Seriously, Karl...

Notwithstanding the fact that no hate crime is good or justifiable...do ou really believe attacks against Arabs is such a problem that all muslims must fear for their safety all of the time? Do ou really think it is such an epedemic that no arab anywhere in the US can walk down the street without being attacked?