[BRussell]

Here's on article.

BAGHDAD, Iraq - A series of coordinated explosions rocked five churches across Baghdad and the northern city of Mosul on Sunday, killing at least two people and injuring 38 others in the first attacks targeting the country's Christian minority in a violent 15-month insurgency.

Interesting strategy - let's start a religious war.

[lil'babykitten]

Like it wasn't already.

[BRussell]

Maybe it was. Well at least it's more explicit now. Christianity vs. Islam in a religious war, now that's scary.

I wonder why they went for this approach though? Maybe they feared they would lose support by attacking Muslims so often.

[lil'babykitten]

Originally posted by BRussell:
Maybe it was. Well at least it's more explicit now. Christianity vs. Islam in a religious war, now that's scary.

I wonder why they went for this approach though? Maybe they feared they would lose support by attacking Muslims so often.

Scary indeed.

They're just looking for new tactics, I believe. It's terrible news, what ever way you analyse it.

Bottom line: As long as US troops remain there and Iraqis view the government as illegitimate, the attacks won't stop.

[Logic]

****ing idiots should try to read what Muhammed said and read the Quran once in a while.

Prophet Muhammad (peace be on him) sent a message to the monks of Saint Catherine in Mount Sinai:


"This is a message written by Muhammad ibn Abdullah, as a covenant to those who adopt Christianity, far and near, we are behind them. Verily, I defend them by myself, the servants, the helpers, and my followers, because Christians are my citizens; and by Allah! I hold out against anything that displeases them. No compulsion is to be on them. Neither are their judges to be changed from their jobs, nor their monks from their monasteries. No one is to destroy a house of their religion, to damage it, or to carry anything from it to the Muslims' houses. Should anyone take any of these, he would spoil God's covenant and disobey His Prophet. Verily, they (Christians) are my allies and have my secure charter against all that they hate. No one is to force them to travel or to oblige them to fight. The Muslims are to fight for them. If a female Christian is married to a Muslim, this is not to take place without her own wish. She is not to be prevented from going to her church to pray. Their churches are to be respected. They are neither to be prevented from repairing them nor the sacredness of their covenants. No one of the nation is to disobey this covenant till the Day of Judgment and the end of the world."

[angaq0k]

Originally posted by lil'babykitten:
Scary indeed.

They're just looking for new tactics, I believe. It's terrible news, what ever way you analyse it.

Bottom line: As long as US troops remain there and Iraqis view the government as illegitimate, the attacks won't stop.

Exactly.

If this was not a religious war obviously enough yet, it will may there fast.

On the other hand, this may stay local for a while, long enough to relativize the whole thing.

Let's hope...

[BRussell]

"We should invade their countries, kill their leaders and convert them to Christianity."

-Ann Coulter, Secretary of State, Bush admin., 2005-2009

[angaq0k]

Originally posted by BRussell:
"We should invade their countries, kill their leaders and convert them to Christianity."

-Ann Coulter, Secretary of State, Bush admin., 2005-2009

And then they will ask why "they" hate them...

This is becoming an extremely titanesque stupidity. Shooting oneself in the foot with a loaded B-52 is barely comparable.

[Logic]

"Who could be more wicked than those who bar the mention of God's name from (any of) His houses of worship and strive for their ruin…For them, in this world, there is ignominy in store, and for them, in the life to come, awesome suffering."

The Holy Quran, 2:114

[dcolton]

So do you still consider these Jihad declaring killer muslims to be noble rebels? Or are they simply hate filled muslims trying to kill anything that isn't islam? I think we have now seen the true color of islamic fundamentalists trying to destroying everything Christian in the name of Allah.

[Logic]

Originally posted by dcolton:
So do you still consider these Jihad declaring killer muslims to be noble rebels? Or are they simply hate filled muslims trying to kill anything that isn't islam? I think we have now seen the true color of islamic fundamentalists trying to destroying everything Christian in the name of Allah.

huh?

These idiots are harming the noble cause of the true freedom fighting Iraqis.

[dcolton]

Originally posted by Logic:
huh?

These idiots are harming the noble cause of the true freedom fighting Iraqis.

Those idiots ARE your noble freedom fighters.

[Logic]

Originally posted by dcolton:
Those idiots ARE your noble freedom fighters.

huh?

Care to back that up?

[dcolton]

Originally posted by Logic:
huh?

Care to back that up?

Just open your eyes and look at the true intent of your noble islamic rebels.

They target and kill innocent civillians
They try to kill anything Jewish
They kill muslims who are too dark
And now, they are going after the Christians.

All in the name of Allah? In the name of Freedom? As part of a Jihad?

Nothing but hate filled MURDERERS continuing their war against anything non-islamic.

And you ask why Islamaphobia is running rampart throughout the world. (although the US is probably the SAFEST place in the world for the muslims who don't practice, support, or sympathize with the skewed muslim killer terrorists).

[Logic]

[dcolton]

Originally posted by Logic:

Don't roll your eyes...OPEN YOUR EYES.

[Logic]

Originally posted by dcolton:
Don't roll your eyes...OPEN YOUR EYES.

Perhaps you should follow your own advise............

[dcolton]

Originally posted by Logic:
Perhaps you should follow your own advise............

Show me one statement that isn;t true.

They target and kill innocent civillians
They try to kill anything Jewish
They kill muslims who are too dark
And now, they are going after the Christians.

[Logic]

Originally posted by dcolton:
Show me one statement that isn;t true.

You could make those statements about Christians as well. Some do it yes. Do all do it? No. Does the Iraqi rebels do it? No.

[ebuddy]

You could make those statements about Christians as well. Some do it yes. Do all do it? No. Does the Iraqi rebels do it? No.

This is a good point. Remember dColton, these are the same arguments used to persecute Christians. You hear it all the time and you and I know those are simply examples of foolish people bastardizing doctrine to justify revolt. It seems no different to me than fundamentalist Muslims' actions. I'm as angered by this as anyone, but we must keep these things in perspective. I am confused about the Q'uran on a couple of items though because I appreciated the quotes Logic provided regarding Peace, please explain the following and it's intent. You may find that the extremist feels justified, but is he an extremist if his doctrine contains the following;

...beware of them lest they seduce you from some part of that which Allah has revealed to you. And if they turn away know that Allah's will is to smite them...(Quran; Surah 5:49)

...Take not the Jews and Christians for friends. They are friends one to another. He among you who takes them for friends is one of them. Lo! Allah guids not these wrongdoing people. (Quran Surah 5:51)

And let not those who disbelieve suppose that they can overcome. Lo! they cannot escape. Make ready for them all you can by armed force...(Quran; Surah 8:59-60a)

...slay the idolaters wherever you find them, and take them captive, and besiege them, and prepare to ambush them. But if they repent and establish [Islamic] worship...their way is free. Lo! Allah is forgiving and Merciful. (Quran; Surah 9:5)

...Strive against the disbelievers and the hypocrites! Be harsh with them...(Quran; Surah 9:73)

[dcolton]

Originally posted by ebuddy:
This is a good point.

Not really. It is a feeble attempt to compare Christianity and it's history to contemporary Islam. The issue we are discussing isn't an imaginary situation where Christians are blowing up Mosques and targeting innnocent muslims throughout the world. We are discussing 'skewed' muslims who are attempting to take the workd hostage by attacking freedom. By attacking anything non-muslim.

[Logic]

I won't go into too much detail about these verses since I'm in a bit of a rush but I'll do my best to explain them.

Originally posted by ebuddy:
...beware of them lest they seduce you from some part of that which Allah has revealed to you. And if they turn away know that Allah's will is to smite them...(Quran; Surah 5:49)

This verse is a part of verses that right and wrong and that it is a divine revelation etc. As the verse says it's God's will to smite them, but that only means that he will punish those to "seduce" Muslims from the true faith and is not an order or encouragement to Muslims to "smite" those who do it.

...Take not the Jews and Christians for friends. They are friends one to another. He among you who takes them for friends is one of them. Lo! Allah guids not these wrongdoing people. (Quran Surah 5:51)

"Friends" isn't the best translation of the word used in this verse. The word used, Auliyâ', is better translated as patron, protecter or helper. This verse is about Muslims not relying on People of the Book for help but rather help themselves. Basically like we say here on Iceland "God helps the one that helps himself".

And let not those who disbelieve suppose that they can overcome. Lo! they cannot escape. Make ready for them all you can by armed force...(Quran; Surah 8:59-60a)

and the rest of 8:60:

and horses tethered, throwing a scare in the hearts of Allah's enemies, and your enemies, and of others besides them whom you do not know but whom Allah knows. Whatever you spend for Allah's Cause, you will get it back in full, and there would be no short-falls for you!

and then the following verse to get a bit of context:

And if they incline towards truce, you too incline towards truce and put your trust in Allah! Verily He hears everything and knows everything.

8:61

The verses you mention encourage Muslims to prepare for everything and to be ready for war if that is what the enemy wants. But as you see in the following verse if the enemy want's peace you should offer them peace.

...slay the idolaters wherever you find them, and take them captive, and besiege them, and prepare to ambush them. But if they repent and establish [Islamic] worship...their way is free. Lo! Allah is forgiving and Merciful. (Quran; Surah 9:5)

Why the omission of part of the verse?

Here's the full verse:

Then, when the auspicious months have passed away, slay the idolaters wherever you find them and take them captive and ravage them and lie in ambush for them. But if they repent and establish worship and give to the deserving their due, then get out of their way. Verily Allah is Magnanimous and Merciful!

Adding the [Islamic] is simply wrong and I somehow have the feeling you got these verses from some of the several anti-Islamic sites on the internet. But I'll answer it any way. This verse is a part of verses that talk about what to do in war. This particular verse is about what to do when a treaty has been broken or ended and the war resumes. And again, adding something to the Quran in the way done above is very disrespectful.

...Strive against the disbelievers and the hypocrites! Be harsh with them...(Quran; Surah 9:73)

Again, why not post the full verse?

O Prophet! strive hard against the unbelievers and the Hypocrites, and be firm against them. Their abode is Hell,- an evil refuge indeed.

Doesn't sound so bad now does it? The prophet was told to strive against unbelievers and Hypocrites. And to not be lenient towards them but firm and harsh to try to help them from being sent to Hell in the afterlife.

[typoon]

These Terrorists should NOT be called insurgents because they are not. They are Terrorists.

[Logic]

Originally posted by typoon:
These Terrorists should NOT be called insurgents because they are not. They are Terrorists.

I completely agree.

[ebuddy]

Logic, I apologize for the addition of the word "Islamic". The Bible is clear not to add and/or take away as well so I should've been more sensitive to that. I sincerely apologize.

[Face Ache]

Who cares if religious freaks kill each other? Just leave the atheists/agnostics out of it.

And when you're trying to lead the world in a war that I view as really between the forces of good and the forces of evil, you got to speak clearly.


President George W. Bush, in an interview with Christianity Today

[Logic]

Originally posted by ebuddy:
Logic, I apologize for the addition of the word "Islamic". The Bible is clear not to add and/or take away as well so I should've been more sensitive to that. I sincerely apologize.

Apology accepted