[dcolton]

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,127763,00.html

A few months from now, Peter Anthony Schlesinger hopes to zap a laser beam at a couple of chickens or other animals in a cage a few dozen yards away.

If all goes as planned, the chickens will be frozen in mid-cluck, their leg and wing muscles paralyzed by an electrical charge created by the beam, even as their heart and lungs function normally.

Among those most interested in the outcome will be officials at the Pentagon, who helped fund Schlesinger's work and are looking at this type of device to do a lot more than just zap the cluck out of a chicken.

Devices like these, known as directed-energy weapons (search), could be used to fight wars in coming years.

"When you can do things at the speed of light, all sorts of new capabilities are there," said Delores Etter, a former undersecretary of defense for science and technology and an advocate of directed-energy weapons.

Directed energy could bring numerous advantages to the battlefield in places like Iraq and Afghanistan, where U.S. troops have had to deal with hostile but unarmed crowds as well as dangerous insurgents...

[angaq0k]

Originally posted by dcolton:
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,127763,00.html

h-o-a-x

I don't believe it one bit. To have a laser beam (coherent light) create a paralysis of some muscles, and not others...

Nah. Does not work that way.

To paralyse the muscles, you need to create a local electric charge that will interfere with the regular innervation. What works, usually, is the insertion of an electrode that will stimulate a group of cells (if not a single cell) which can create spasms. To excite the same group of cells from a distance, using a laser, light as to be of the right frequency and a certain intensity to get electrons circulating against the usual, natural innervation.

I am afraid that such a laser could not be efficient enough to even affect a muscle other than by burning the skin over it.

I am not a physicist, or a neurophysiologist, but I read enough on the topic to doubt it.

[dcolton]

I am far from being able to intelligently discuss this...just thought it was interesting. At any rate, since this seems to be of interest to you, here is a link to the brochure:

http://www.fas.org/spp/starwars/program/dew.pdf

There are a few other links...if you look, but like I said, my interest goes as far as saying that this would be cool.

[angaq0k]

Originally posted by dcolton:
I am far from being able to intelligently discuss this...just thought it was interesting. At any rate, since this seems to be of interest to you, here is a link to the brochure:

http://www.fas.org/spp/starwars/program/dew.pdf

There are a few other links...if you look, but like I said, my interest goes as far as saying that this would be cool.

I read the brochure, and yes, from the article, it would be cool to have weapons that will not harm fatally an opponent. Now I am not saying it is impossible that a laser with such capability could exist, but I find it doubtful.

I know a patent for a water gun was received by the U.S. Office of Patents about 15 years ago (as published by New Scientis, which is not a reference, rather a curiosity in the world of science publishing) that, depending of the configuration, could either paralyze, or kill with huge amounts of suffering. It was also described as an instrument for "peace".

There are other weapons under study. Scientific American published something about it around 15 years ago as well. One of them is a foam that hardens a very short time after being sprayed. It may be potentially operational right now, who knows?

I am all for defensive weapons that are not injuring, but rather paralyze or immobilize. But to use a laser for that purpose, that is beyond my imagination, thereore, less credible to me. Does not me it is not real though. But patents like that are often theories, and rarely make it out of the paper, because they are flawed in some basic principle. I remember reading something about the U.S. office of patents being full of incredible ideas with no realistic applications.

I suspect this is the case here.

[f1000]

Sorry, ang, but this technology is no hoax and it's actually pretty old news.

High-intensity lasers at certain frequencies will ionize air. Very high-intensity lasers will even create sparks along the path of propagation. Active denial technology sends electric currents down these virtual wires to paralyze a target.

Japanese and German researchers have been studying similar technology for years to siphon lightning from storm clouds.

[angaq0k]

Originally posted by f1000:
Sorry, ang, but this technology is no hoax and it's actually pretty old news.

High-intensity lasers at certain frequencies will ionize air. Very high-intensity lasers will even create sparks along the path of propagation. Active denial technology sends electric currents down these virtual wires to paralyze a target.

Japanese and German researchers have been studying similar technology for years to siphon lightning from storm clouds.

I agree for that part you mention. No doubt about about large areas and such.

But to target a specific a muscle group (like the arms, without interfering with the heart and the lungs..), without creating injuries to the target, I am quite doubtful.

There is a long way between ionizing air, and interfering with an area of the body that has to do with muscle movement.

Sparks will injure the target.

[f1000]

Originally posted by angaq0k:
There is a long way between ionizing air, and interfering with an area of the body that has to do with muscle movement.

Sparks will injure the target.

I just mentioned the sparking because it's a neat effect; AD weapons would never use a beam of such intensity.

An AD weapon generates two parallel beams of laser light. Current from an electrode propagates down one beam, passes through the target's skin, and then returns to another electrode via the other beam. Shooting a person with such a weapon supposedly produces an effect that is similar to Tazing him.

That said, all electric shock poses some risk to a person, especially if that person has a bad heart.

[angaq0k]

Originally posted by f1000:
I just mentioned the sparking because it's a neat effect;

I like people to shine in the dark...

Sorry, I just could not help it...

AD weapons would never use a beam of such intensity.

An AD weapon generates two parallel beams of laser light. Current from an electrode propagates down one beam, passes through the target's skin, and then returns to another electrode via the other beam. Shooting a person with such a weapon supposedly produces an effect that is similar to Tazing him.

I am really curious about this. You have a link?

That said, all electric shock poses some risk to a person, especially if that person has a bad heart.

That reminds me that smoking is bad for our health...
Seriously though, I believe such weapons still can kill. Rubber bullet for instance. Shows that there is a limit to "humanistic" weaponry...

[Millennium]

So, what are the plans to attach them to sharks' heads?

[f1000]

Originally posted by angaq0k:
I am really curious about this. You have a link?

No, but you can always Google for it

OK, try this as a starting point: http://www.spie.org/app/Publications...aserlight.html

[f1000]

This seems to be the company that's actively working on this technology:

http://www.hsvt.org/

Patent# 5,675,103

[angaq0k]

Originally posted by Millennium:
So, what are the plans to attach them to sharks' heads?

You are such a Bond fan...

Here is to you:

[angaq0k]

From HSVT FAQ web site:

24.From what I read in your patent, the current is not much different from what I get by combing my hair. So why does it "tetanize" anyone?
The very weak current we use is able to hold the major skeletal muscles contracted because it closely replicates the nerve impulses that control those muscles. That is, the combination of the pulse wave form, the pulse repetition rate, and the amperage is exactly designed to mimic the neural pulses nature uses to activate those muscles. Only the voltage is greater so that the current will penetrate clothing and skin.

I am still doubtful about the efficiency of their weapon. They mention a model the size of a flash light available in a "few" years. If this had been such a miracle weapon, it would have been applied already. My suspicion is that the US Army wants to have a look at it because they are gadget-happy, early adopters type of people, especially with the promise to get an edge, which is understandable. That does not mean that such a weapon is viable.

Why are only the skeletal muscles tetanized?
The skeletal muscles are held immobile because they are composed of striated or "stringy" muscle tissue. Striated muscle tissue is easily stimulated by electrical currents. On the other hand, heart muscle is affected only by significantly more powerful currents. Thus, this difference in sensitivity is a natural safety factor.

How is the anti-vehicle weapon different from the tetanizing weapon?
The vehicle disabling weapon (VDW) differs from the tetanizing weapon in several ways. First, it uses only a single 500 microsecond pulse of high-frequency current to destroy the electronic controls of the target vehicle. It is able to do this because the integrated circuits in the controls are easily damaged by such currents. Second, the wavelength of the laser radiation emitted by the VDW is 248 rather than 193 nanometers (nm). Third, the range is approximately two kilometers. This range is achieved because the longer wavelength radiation is less rapidly absorbed. (At 248 nm, three simultaneous photons are needed to dislodge one electron from molecular oxygen. Therefore, a higher intensity must be emitted to create the same ionization density over the two-kilometer distance.) Fourth, it is larger and heavier because it may be carried in a vehicle rather than by hand.

It does not seem so practical: you need 2 laser beams to make it effective (a return channel is necessary for the current to make a loop), and a large vehicle. I suppose they will reduce those to the size of a keyholder. Actually, there are a few people at work I'd like to paralyze for a moment or two...

Well.. let's see what else the futur bring. I learned something again today! Thank you dcolton and f1000!


But I still am doubtful about it....

[f1000]

If you wear a metallized vest or a shirt with conductive wires woven into the fabric, you won't get zapped.

[angaq0k]

Originally posted by f1000:
If you wear a metallized vest or a shirt with conductive wires woven into the fabric, you won't get zapped.

Will a thin foil hat work?



I know I know. It does not affect the brain... yet.

[SimeyTheLimey]

Aunty Beeb had the obvious headline:

Set Phasers on Stun.



It does a better job explaining the theory for use liberal arts types.

[BlackGriffen]

I'm still a little skeptical. Even granting that they get the air to conduct in such a nice, neat way, I'd be dubios about their ability to get such a small voltage as they describe to conduct through the skin. Dry skin is actually a decent insulator. Though, if dry skin is a good insulator because it is airy, this would certainly get around it.

This would be simple to defeat, though. Metal mesh or foil, as mentioned, would work. Equally effective would be any insulator that doesn't permit air flow (though you'd be hot as hell inside).

BlackGriffen

[angaq0k]

Originally posted by SimeyTheLimey:
Aunty Beeb had the obvious headline:

Set Phasers on Stun.



It does a better job explaining the theory for use liberal arts types.

Note that all this information is 5 years old...

That still does not give it any credit...

April 27, 2004, a man claimed to have falsified Bohr's theory of the quantum (see Afshar).

Thus, it appears that both the Copenhagen Interpretation and the Many-Worlds Interpretation have been falsified by experiment.

An article from New Scientist (July 24, 2004) apparently claimed that Afshar may prove the inexistence of the photon

we have no other choice but to declare the idea of Einstein's photon dead

. His article is actually reviewed for Physical Review Letters, but comments in the community abound at the surprise of such a find and how unrealistic it appears.

This means that over 90 years of physics, and more precisely, quantum mechanics, would be going down the drain. And this is not the first claim to rewrite the whole field of physics. Penrose tried it with his twisters and how many others. Yet, those guys were giants, yet they were wrong. We saw similar claims in genetics (the discovery of the gene responsible for schizophrenia) and many other fields.

Any claims that make it on the first page of newspapers before having been reviewed, pondered, discussed, criticized, and re-experimented by peers should raise suspicion. The number of scientific articles published on a yearly basis leading to intellectual cul-de-sac is the majority of all publications; the problem is in the difficulties of proving them all wrong, because the fields of research are so vast.

Inventors of miracle remedies, of astounding discoveries abound, yet disappear quickly through the test of time...

Just like the idea of republicans from power...



This is my complicated and extrenuous way of explaining something simple. Sorry!

[PacHead]

Originally posted by BlackGriffen:

This would be simple to defeat, though. Metal mesh or foil, as mentioned, would work. Equally effective would be any insulator that doesn't permit air flow (though you'd be hot as hell inside).

That's fine. If the enemy runs around covered in some shiny aluminum foil, the US mil will just use good old fashioned bullets and shoot them down in the regular way. Probably cheaper too.

I heard some cool stuff about sound directional weapons also. The enemies of the USA couldn't have chosen poorer timing for their pathetic war. Soon the US will be zapping them from the ground, sea and air, using all sorts of cool gadgets coming out in the future. Actually, on second thought, that's pretty much what we do today. It will be interesting however to see some of the new breed of weapons coming out in the next decades.