[dcolton]

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,128154,00.html

I think I have come to a conclusion. The world is full of pus$ies! We spend all of this time attacking coalition soldiers for defending their RIGHT TO LIFE in a hostile area while insurgent scum decapitate heads, attack christianity, and kidnap anyone western. This is bullsh!t and becoming quite sickening. Why is it we will demonize those of good and common demeanor while defending those who attack freedom and innocence?

COPENHAGEN, Denmark — A Danish army officer was accused by military prosecutors Thursday of allegedly denying food and water to detainees in Iraq (search), forcing them to sit in "painful positions" and verbally humiliating them.

The preliminary charges against Capt. Annemette Hommel (search), 37, stem from four alleged incidents between March and June during her tour of duty at a Danish military camp in southern Iraq. Hommel, an intelligence officer, and Col. Henrik Flach (search), the head of Denmark's 496-soldier deployment in Iraq, were ordered home this week because of the allegations.

The accusations were first reported Monday by the Ekstra Bladet newspaper and confirmed by the government.

The abuse allegations have raised concerns about Denmark's participation in U.S.-led coalition in Iraq, but Defense Minister Soeren Gade vowed Thursday not to pull the contingent out of the country.

Military prosecutor Peter Otken said detainees being questioned by Hommel were "forced to sit in stressing and eventually painful positions and maintained with force to stay in these positions." The detainees also were verbally humiliated and denied food and water.

Military prosecutors said they found four separate instances of Hommel mistreating detainees.

[Face Ache]

.

[dcolton]

Originally posted by Face Ache:
WWJD?

Forgive you for your sins and offer you eternal life.

[Face Ache]

.

[PacHead]

This is absolutely stupid. We are fighting a war not running a nursery school.

Forced to sit in painful positions ? Hell, when I take the subway, I'm often standing in an uncomfortable, painful position. Same goes when I fly on a plane, since I'm tall, and airplane seats are made for midgets. I'll be sure to file my "torture" lawsuit against the airlines soon.

[Face Ache]

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[dcolton]

Originally posted by Face Ache:
Cool. When I stop sinning I'll give him a call.

By that point, you will probably be burning in hell with your insurgent buddies!

[TheMosco]

Originally posted by dcolton:
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,128154,00.html

I think I have come to a conclusion. The world is full of pus$ies! We spend all of this time attacking coalition soldiers for defending their RIGHT TO LIFE in a hostile area while insurgent scum decapitate heads, attack christianity, and kidnap anyone western. This is bullsh!t and becoming quite sickening. Why is it we will demonize those of good and common demeanor while defending those who attack freedom and innocence?

Because just because the terrorists are scum, doesn't meant we can disregard human life. Denying someone water? We shouldn't be acting less bad than them, we shouldn't be acting badly at all.

[dcolton]

Originally posted by TheMosco:
Because just because the terrorists are scum, doesn't meant we can disregard human life. Denying someone water? We shouldn't be acting less bad than them, we shouldn't be acting badly at all.

I don't think the terrorist was in dire need for water. That is my point. Where is the line drawn? When is criticism acceptable? I don't believe anything this soldier of freedom did was illegal or of any consequence.

"He was bold as brass and did his best to dodge in every way my questions and started to ask for water," Hommel said, adding that she refused to give it to him during the one-hour interrogation session.

"There was no serious physical need for water. It was an obstruction mechanism."

[Wiskedjak]

Originally posted by dcolton:
I don't think the terrorist was in dire need for water.

Do you know, or are you assuming? That's our point. Where is the line drawn, who draws it and who enforces crossing of the line? Furthermore, these are detainees, not prisoners. For all we know, their sole infraction could be "Looking like a terrorist". How is denying a detainee water "defending [the soldier's] RIGHT TO LIFE"? And, finally, these soldiers wouldn't have to defend their "right to life" if they weren't sent there in the first place.

[dcolton]

Originally posted by Wiskedjak:
Do you know, or are you assuming? That's our point. Where is the line drawn, who draws it and who enforces crossing of the line? Furthermore, there are detainees, not prisoners. For all we know, their sole infraction could be "Looking like a terrorist".

That's great....are you immdeiately dismissing the word of the Danish soldier? Why do you dismiss her assertion that there was no dire need for water?

If you look like, act like and talk like a terrorist...does that mean you are not a terrorist? Why do you people want to make it so difficult for the American led coalition to defend their lives from men who desire nothing more than to kill?

[Wiskedjak]

Originally posted by dcolton:
That's great....are you immdeiately dismissing the word of the Danish soldier?

Yes. If she committed a crime, she's likely lying. If she did not commit a crime, then the evidence will prove her innocence. Innocent until proven guilty? That was thrown out a long time ago when the concept of detainees was introduced.

Originally posted by dcolton:
If you look like, act like and talk like a terrorist...does that mean you are not a terrorist?

I said, "look like a terrorist", not act or talk like one. The simple truth about detainees is that no one knows why they are being detained. They could be detained simply for the detainer not liking how the detainee looked at them. Seems like detainees are often released without a single charge, which leads one to question further why they were detained and tortured in the first place.

Originally posted by dcolton:
Why do you people want to make it so difficult for the American led coalition to defend their lives from men who desire nothing more than to kill?

Because the American led coalition shouldn't be in Iraq in the first place and many prison guards seem to desire nothing more than to abuse detainees.

[Spliffdaddy]

heh.

[dcolton]

Originally posted by Wiskedjak:
Yes. If she committed a crime, she's likely lying. If she did not commit a crime, then the evidence will prove her innocence. Innocent until proven guilty? That was thrown out a long time ago with the concept of detainees.


I said, "look like a terrorist", not act or talk like one. The simple truth about detainees is that no one knows why they are being detained. They could be detained simply for the detainer not liking how the detainee looked at them. Seems like detainees are often released without a single charge, which leads one to question further why they were detained and tortured in the first place.


Because the American led coalition shouldn't be in Iraq in the first place and many prison guards seem to desire nothing more than to abuse detainees.

It absolutly amazes me that you would take the word of a terrorist over a Danish soldier.

[MacNStein]

Originally posted by dcolton:
It absolutly amazes me that you would take the word of a terrorist over a Danish soldier.

Of course, that's what the typical socialist "fluffy bunny" does, isn't it? Soldier = Monster, Terrorist = Freedom Fighter?


We need use a lot more of these...

[PacHead]

Originally posted by MacNStein:
We need use a lot more of these...

I agree.

What is it though, a J-dam ?, Tomahawk ?

[Wiskedjak]

Originally posted by dcolton:
It absolutly amazes me that you would take the word of a terrorist over a Danish soldier.

We don't know that this detainee is a terrorist.

[dcolton]

Originally posted by Wiskedjak:
We don't know that this detainee is a terrorist.

Whether he is a terrorist or not is irrelevant. He is an enemy combatant. Of course, you will claim that he probably did nothing...but I guess that is because you value the life of a suspiciously innocent terrorist over that of a soldier trying to survive in a hazardous environment. You seem to be against a soldier using caution to preserve life and for allowing anarchy and death.

[Wiskedjak]

Originally posted by dcolton:
Whether he is a terrorist or not is irrelevant. He is an enemy combatant.

How do we know the detainee is an enemy combatant? Of course, you will claim that he probably did something illegal without evidence ... but I guess that is because you value the life of a suspiciously innocent soldier over that of an Iraqi trying to survive in a hazardous environment.

Caution would dictate that these soldiers not be sent on frivolous invasions.

[Face Ache]

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[dcolton]

Originally posted by Wiskedjak:
How do we know the detainee is an enemy combatant? Caution would dictate that these soldiers not be sent on frivolous invasions.

How convienient to leave out the rest of my post that pre-addressed your assertion

[MacNStein]

Originally posted by PacHead:
I agree.

What is it though, a J-dam ?, Tomahawk ?

FAE (Fuel Air Explosive), the only true path to urban renewal.

[Wiskedjak]

Originally posted by dcolton:
How convienient to leave out the rest of my post that pre-addressed your assertion

I made no such assertion. I simply questioned the evidence used for your assertion that this detainee is a terrorist. I'm not asserting that the detainee is not a terrorist, but neither am I assuming that the detainee is a terrorist without evidence.

[tie]

Originally posted by dcolton:
I don't think the terrorist was in dire need for water. That is my point. Where is the line drawn? When is criticism acceptable? I don't believe anything this soldier of freedom did was illegal or of any consequence.

Why are you calling the detainee a terrorist? You have no evidence to support this. Your entire argument is based on conjecture and stereotypes; until you have more information, sit back and let the justice system do its job.

[dcolton]

Originally posted by tie:
Why are you calling the detainee a terrorist? You have no evidence to support this. Your entire argument is based on conjecture and stereotypes; until you have more information, sit back and let the justice system do its job.

Terrorist, detainee, whatever. He wasn't an upstanding citizen...that is all I need to know.

Everyone elses argument is assuming the Dane is guilty of abuse. It is horsesh!t to assume the worst of a coalition soldier because you don't support the liberation effort.

[Wiskedjak]

Originally posted by dcolton:
Terrorist, detainee, whatever. He wasn't an upstanding citizen...that is all I need to know.

Everyone elses argument is assuming the Dane is guilty of abuse. It is horsesh!t to assume the worst of a coalition soldier because you don't support the liberation effort.

How do you know he wasn't an upstanding citizen? Simply by virtue of the fact that he was detained?

As for assuming, you are assuming that the detainee deserves whatever treatment he gets because you are assuming he is guilty. You don't have the information necessary to correctly make such an assumption.

[dcolton]

Originally posted by Wiskedjak:
How do you know he wasn't an upstanding citizen? Simply by virtue of the fact that he was detained?

I read the article, how about you?

As for assuming, you are assuming that the detainee deserves whatever treatment he gets because you are assuming he is guilty. You don't have the information necessary to correctly make such an assumption.

I read the article, how about you?

On June 9, Hommel and three other officers questioned a member of the militia loyal to radical Shiite cleric Muqtada al-Sadr suspected of planning to ambush Danish soldiers, she said. She did not identify the suspect, but said he earlier had been detained by soldiers for putting up illegal roadblocks in the area.

"He was bold as brass and did his best to dodge in every way my questions and started to ask for water," Hommel said, adding that she refused to give it to him during the one-hour interrogation session.

[PacHead]

"He was bold as brass and did his best to dodge in every way my questions and started to ask for water," Hommel said, adding that she refused to give it to him during the one-hour interrogation session

Wow, how inhumane ! 1 full hour without water ! 60 minutes ! Did he die ? Can he sue for such barbaric treatment and torture ? What is the world coming to ? We can't have any thirsty terrorists around, now can we ?

[Wiskedjak]

As simple video of the interrogation and charge against the detainee should clear up any confusion here.

[dcolton]

Originally posted by Wiskedjak:
As simple video of the interrogation and charge against the detainee should clear up any confusion here.

Something tells me you would still find a way to defend this terrorist scum who was illegally putting up road blocks...I wonder why.

[Wiskedjak]

Originally posted by dcolton:
Something tells me you would still find a way to defend this terrorist scum who was illegally putting up road blocks...I wonder why.

And something tells me you would still find a way to defend a soldier proven to be torturing innocent Arabs ... I wonder why.

[dcolton]

Originally posted by Wiskedjak:
And something tells me you would still find a way to defend a soldier proven to be torturing innocent Arabs ... I wonder why.

I will be honest and say that I will take the word of a soldier over a detainee any day. Am I wrong...only because I will admittantly do it to a fault. I support our troops and will defend any soldier until they are proven guilty.

Is it fair on my part...no. Are we in a war effort? Yes. I put stock in reasonable caution. Detaining suspected enemies is caution and reasonable when in a war zone where every move is a life or death situation.

BUT...if it were a Canadian soldier...I would have the rope ready!

[Wiskedjak]

Originally posted by dcolton:
I will be honest and say that I will take the word of a soldier over a detainee any day.

I will not take the word of one innocent until proven guilty person over another innocent until proven guilt person. All people are equal in my eyes until proven otherwise.

[Spliffdaddy]

Except for conservatives and Americans, right?

[Face Ache]

Originally posted by Spliffdaddy:
Except for conservatives and Americans, right?

[CreepingDeth]

Hey, does anyone remember Nicholas Berg?

[Face Ache]

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[CRASH HARDDRIVE]

One can’t help but notice the tendency of certain folks to give terrorists, enemy combatants, dictators -you name it- the benefit of the doubt, while on the other hand immediately condemning the actions of ANY coalition solider.

Anyone who has truly deluded themselves into believing that terrorists et al aren’t sharp enough to have picked up on this fact, or clever enough not to try and exploit and use it against us any and every time they possibly can, has to just be out there on a cloud in September 10th land somewhere, singing an endless chorus of Kum By Yah while they sniff the glue fumes.

“Verbal humiliation and denied food and water.”? Come off it. I don’t believe ‘verbal humiliation’ is anything legitimate to charge an intelligence officer with, and truly ‘denying someone food and water’ doesn’t begin to mean ON FREAKIN’ DEMAND!

Next thing we’ll be putting officers trying to do a difficult, nigh on impossible job up on charges because they failed to give detainees milk and cookies on demand, and didn’t read a bedtime story when ordered to.

Let’s just get rid of anyone with the actual backbone to do difficult intelligence work, and just hire Captain Kangaroo types to replace them. That way when some detainee at the Hilton loudly demands an intel officer serve them strawberry pop tarts rather than the blueberry ones, and demands that the channel be changed back over to PowerPuff Girls rather than Jeopardy, it’ll all be worked out with a smile and a “yes sir, right away sir, can I get you anything else sir?”

[Logic]

Hey, does anyone remember the 12 year old Ali Abbas?

[Spliffdaddy]

Originally posted by Face Ache:
Does anybody here remember Vera Lynn?

remember how she said that we would meet again some sunny day.

[Spheric Harlot]

Originally posted by Spliffdaddy:
remember how she said that we would meet again some sunny day.

Her song is also the final scene of Dr. Strangelove - set to creepily beautiful footage of exploding atomic bombs...first time I'd actually heard the song itself, rather than just the Floyd's reference to it.

[Wiskedjak]

Originally posted by Spliffdaddy:
Except for conservatives and Americans, right?

All people are equal in my eyes until proven otherwise. Even Americans and conservatives ... though many Americans, conservatives and liberals have proven otherwise, particularily those who convict without evidence.

[CreepingDeth]

But sometimes you can just tell. Jacko for example.
A bunch of guys are not given food and water: the Red Star (or crescent) Press gives numerous stories. Nicholas Berg and Johnson beheaded by a bunch of evil ****ers? See page 14A.

[Spheric Harlot]

Originally posted by CreepingDeath:
But sometimes you can just tell.

That's not Freedom™, nor Liberty™, nor Democracy™, nor Justice™.

It does seem to be becoming the American Way™ of late, though.

[CreepingDeth]

It's obvious Michael Jackson did it. He has a history, and he seems to be saying he did, but calls it ignorance. Looks like what a jury would say.

[Zimphire]

Originally posted by Spheric Harlot:

It does seem to be becoming the American Way™ of late, though.

Here let me tell you about the new German way of life.

I've never lived there, but I am sure If you know what the "American Way" is..

[Anders]

The accusations doesn´t come from the detaniees but from a military translator. But thjen again we all know those terrorist translators are not to be trusted