[CreepingDeth]

What do you think about abortion?

[Zimphire]

You know this means nothing right?

All this shows is, people can vote more than once.

[CreepingDeth]

How? it wasn't set to multiple choice.

[Zimphire]

Multiple accounts = Ability to vote more than once.

[CreepingDeth]

Who keeps multiple accounts, several email addresses, etc., and be a loser enough to delete cookies and reset Safari to vote twice? There is also the discussion of the topic part.

[demograph68]

Originally posted by CreepingDeath:
Who keeps multiple accounts, several email addresses, etc., and be a loser enough to delete cookies and reset Safari to vote twice? There is also the discussion of the topic part.

I'll tell ya who! Those God damned confederate conservative assholes!

p.s. fetus, not "children"

[MindFad]

In Soviet Russia, fetuses abort you.

[BRussell]

Someone needs to take a bit of a break, hmmm? Creepingdeath, go to your room, and you can't start a new thread until all of your clothes are off that floor!

[Zimphire]

Originally posted by demograph68:
I'll tell ya who! Those God damned confederate conservative assholes!

p.s. fetus, not "children"

I guess that would be like someone saying "Infants, not children"

Thems "feel good" words. Just like "Pro Choice" instead of "pro-ending-of-a-life."

[CreepingDeth]

Originally posted by demograph68:
I'll tell ya who! Those God damned ungrateful communist Christian bashers!

Fixed, as people like to put it.

Russell, go to your room. I am in my room, and it is fairly clean, I might add.

[demograph68]

If a woman has a miscarriage, then how come it's not mentioned in the obituaries? If a mother is pregnant and has 2 children, why does she say,"I have 2 children and one on the way." Why isn't a fetus taken into account for a country's total population? - George Carlin

[Spliffdaddy]

if the mother wants to give birth, it's a child - and you're a murderer if you kill it.

if the mother doesn't want to give birth, it's just a fetus - nothing of value.

you gotta understand the terminology...

[phoenixboy70]

illegal:

masturbation - no
early term abortion - no
late term abortion - yes
murder - yes

[dcmacdaddy]

Originally posted by Spliffdaddy:
if the mother wants to give birth, it's a child - and you're a murderer if you kill it.

if the mother doesn't want to give birth, it's just a fetus - nothing of value.

you gotta understand the terminology...

child . . . fetus . . . whatever. I voted "Yes" because I support a woman's right to choose when and how she has children.
I believe a woman's right to choose takes precedence over an unborn fetus/baby/child and that the woman has more rights
than the fetus/baby/child growing inside her.

[OSX Abuser]

Originally posted by CreepingDeath:
Who keeps multiple accounts, several email addresses, etc., and be a loser enough to delete cookies and reset Safari to vote twice? There is also the discussion of the topic part.

Why do all of that when you can run multiple browsers.
You could have one account for each browser you have installed.

Safari
Mozilla
Firebird
IE
Opera
Ect

Just an example.

[strictlyplaid]

Originally posted by CreepingDeath:
What do you think about abortion?

Dude, you need to cut out the push-polling.

I mean, think if every morning I posted something like,

"Should people be permitted to freely own fully-automatic belt-fed machine guns with mounted grenade launchers without so much as a background check?"

or perhaps,

"How low can a person's IQ be before he/she's too dumb to run a country?"

I think you see my point, here. A question like that is determined to cheapen any discussion that emerges therefrom.

[RonnieoftheRose]

It's always amusing to watch a bunch of men debate an issue that should be decided on by women.

[Stradlater]

Originally posted by Zimphire:
I guess that would be like someone saying "Infants, not children"

Thems "feel good" words. Just like "Pro Choice" instead of "pro-ending-of-a-life."

How can you end a life when it hasn't yet begun?

Anyways, above all (even "feeling good"): accuracy over generality.

[Stradlater]

Originally posted by RonnieoftheRose:
It's always amusing to watch a bunch of men debate an issue that should be decided on by women.

It should be decided on by individual couples rather than any sweeping group, although the female should make the final call.

[mo]

There just aren't enough polls in the political/war lounge right now. Creepingdeath, would you mind posting a few more?

[Spliffdaddy]

Originally posted by RonnieoftheRose:
It's always amusing to watch a bunch of men debate an issue that should be decided on by women.

You mean the decision to have unprotected sex with men?

Or the extermination of a life that wouldn't have existed without the man?

color me confused...

[RonnieoftheRose]

Originally posted by Spliffdaddy:

Or the extermination of a life that wouldn't have existed without the man?

Most abortions happen because of what the man is as a person. Something to think about.

[Spliffdaddy]

Originally posted by RonnieoftheRose:
Most abortions happen because of what the man is as a person. Something to think about.

Most abortions are performed because the mother doesn't want to be inconvenienced.

Six have been performed for other reasons.

[RonnieoftheRose]

Originally posted by Spliffdaddy:
Most abortions are performed because the mother doesn't want to be inconvenienced.

Think deeper. You're nearly there.

[Spliffdaddy]

I've given plenty of thought to it.

You're the one who seems to be at a loss for an adequate rebuttal.

You blame men, remember?

So, in your opinion, women are both bad judges of character AND incapable of raising children without the assistance of a man.

[Zimphire]

Originally posted by Stradlater:
How can you end a life when it hasn't yet begun?

How do you know when life begins? We don't know. Anyone that says they know when life begins is a liar.

[Zimphire]

http://www.johnstonsarchive.net/poli...abreasons.html

Here are the reasons for abortion.

Look what makes the top of the list.

[MacGorilla]

I'm pro choice but I am not for using abortion as a method for birth control and it should be discouraged. I mean, we spent millions of dollars a preaching anti tobacco laws, why not do the same for abortions?

[phoenixboy70]

Originally posted by Spliffdaddy:
Most abortions are performed because the mother doesn't want to be inconvenienced.

no, actually most abortions are preformed because the father doesn't want to be inconvenienced (to pay for the child's upbringing etc.)

[angaq0k]

Originally posted by RonnieoftheRose:
Most abortions happen because of what the man is as a person. Something to think about.

There are many reasons why a woman would want abortion, and the partner's qualities are certainly to be considered. Some women find themselves in such a violent relationship that it makes no sense to keep the child.

Abortions can be done for humanitarian reasons.

Personally, I am for a reasonable use of it. Both partners are responsible and should be made accountable for the consequences. I believe life starts at the time of the conception (no one has to agree with me) but that life starts to have meaning only later on, and always in terms of the expectations of the parents.

Men waste 300 millions of spermatozoids in a day. That is a lot of life.
Women lose an ova a month. That is a loss of life, but it also serve a purpose for the hormonal balance.

Once the spermatozoid feconds the ova, life turns to a different level. But is it meaningful yet? If the parents want that child, they will invest a lot of interest in him/her and create many expectations for its future (and theirs, because like it or not, parents turn very narcissistics with the perspective of having children).

But if that future appears to be compromise, or that the conception of a child is used to "patch things up" in a relationship that is doomed from the beginning, that new life loses its meanings; it is no longer about having a child to perpetuate life, but rather, a scapegoat for the survival of the couple.

Children do not deserve such a treatment, and it is often too late when parents find out they did not care about the child.

Another consequence is that children born in a single parent family face more difficulties; not that it is necessarily a bad thing, for many will survive the ordeal, but if we can spare the misery, so much the better.

This something men have a lot of difficulty to understand, and sadly enough, that creates more damage than good, because the struggle is about power, not the welfare of the child or the family for that matter.

I think that women have enoughh responsability already, since most of the times, they end up with all responsabilities for raising the children. This is why women, I think, should have the last word in the matter.

Until society can provide solid structures to support single parents (of which number is always increasing), I do not see why women should be forced to complete the pregnancy. It is a question of humanism. Period.

A poll with a binary mode for a decision not appropriate to answer such a question.

[Scientist]

Originally posted by Zimphire:
How do you know when life begins? We don't know. Anyone that says they know when life begins is a liar.

It depends entirely on a person's definition of life. Your definition of life suits your needs and works well for your mental moral model while others use a different definition which better suits them. If you feel the need to explore issues from the point of view of someone with another definiton for life try mentally labeling it somehting like "life2". I think you will find this will make communication easier, help you to understand other's points of view and avoid pitfalls in logic.

[RonnieoftheRose]

Originally posted by Zimphire:
How do you know when life begins?

According to the religion you claim to know and follow so well life begins with the breath of life.

But that would mean late term abortions would be OK, which I don't agree with as it would be unhealthy for the mother and the foetus has developed to the point when it can live independent of the mother, eg. in an incubator.

[Zimphire]

Originally posted by phoenixboy70:
no, actually most abortions are preformed because the father doesn't want to be inconvenienced (to pay for the child's upbringing etc.)

Got any proof to back that up? I know MANY guys that had no choice in the matter. Some gals didn't even TELL their boyfriends or whatever knowing they would try to talk them out of it.

While I agree, your above statement does happen, saying "most" is a bit silly.

But if you have any proof to back that up, go on.

[Zimphire]

Originally posted by Scientist:
It depends entirely on a person's definition of life. Your definition of life suits your needs and works well for your mental moral model while others use a different definition which better suits them. If you feel the need to explore issues from the point of view of someone with another definiton for life try mentally labeling it somehting like "life2". I think you will find this will make communication easier, help you to understand other's points of view and avoid pitfalls in logic.

Again, facts are we don't know when life starts or begins. You can have an opinion as to what time you think it starts. BUT NO ONE KNOWS EXACTLY. And if anyone claims they do, they are liars. We are just guessing.

[Zimphire]

Originally posted by RonnieoftheRose:
According to the religion you claim to know and follow so well life begins with the breath of life.

No, that isn't what it says. You have made a lot of comments about what my "religion" says that is dead wrong. I suggest you go read before making anymore.

[Stradlater]

Originally posted by Zimphire:
Again, facts are we don't know when life starts or begins. You can have an opinion as to what time you think it starts. BUT NO ONE KNOWS EXACTLY. And if anyone claims they do, they are liars. We are just guessing.

Depends on how you define life. If you define a human life as the amalgamation of memories, a fetus is then definitely not a life but a mere potential life, just more likely to become a life than a lone sperm or egg.

[Scientist]

Originally posted by Zimphire:
Again, facts are we don't know when life starts or begins. You can have an opinion as to what time you think it starts. BUT NO ONE KNOWS EXACTLY. And if anyone claims they do, they are liars. We are just guessing.

We do not know definitively when human life starts because such a point is imaginary. You are approaching this problem the wrong way. Life doesn't just magically start and stop. There are grey areas.

Here is a question I like to ask people who believe abortion is wrong. How is an early stage fetus different than a colon polyp. This usually helps gets to the heart of the matter.

[Zimphire]

Originally posted by Scientist:
We do not know definitively when human life starts because such a point is imaginary. You are approaching this problem the wrong way. Life doesn't just magically start and stop. There are grey areas.

Again, another guess. You don't know. No one does.

[MacNStein]

Originally posted by demograph68:
If a woman has a miscarriage, then how come it's not mentioned in the obituaries? If a mother is pregnant and has 2 children, why does she say,"I have 2 children and one on the way." Why isn't a fetus taken into account for a country's total population? - George Carlin

why is it 2 counts of murder when a pregnant woman gets killed?

[Zimphire]

Originally posted by MacNStein:
why is it 2 counts of murder when a pregnant woman gets killed?

Double standard. It only counts as a life when it doesn't suit their selfish ways.

[Stradlater]

Originally posted by Zimphire:
Again, another guess. You don't know. No one does.

Why does fudge taste so darned good? You don't know. No one does.

[MacNStein]

Originally posted by Zimphire:
Double standard. It only counts as a life when it doesn't suit their selfish ways.

Oh, I was just making the statement that usually brings George Carlin to a screeching halt (it did on Politically incorrect, anyway).

[Zimphire]

Well that was about silly.

[Zimphire]

Originally posted by MacNStein:
Oh, I was just making the statement that usually brings George Carlin to a screeching halt (it did on Politically incorrect, anyway).

yes, people who worship Carlin are funny

[angaq0k]

Originally posted by Scientist:
We do not know definitively when human life starts because such a point is imaginary. You are approaching this problem the wrong way. Life doesn't just magically start and stop. There are grey areas.

Here is a question I like to ask people who believe abortion is wrong. How is an early stage fetus different than a colon polyp. This usually helps gets to the heart of the matter.

In a sense, life is an ongoing process for which nobody has an exact idea of it's beginning. Human life is just a phase of this process that started with the Big Bang (if there was such a thing!) and end up in an evaporation with the ongoing dilation of the universe.

Defining life, is to discard the whole process for the benefit of an incomplete and fixed snapshot in time.

A picture is a picture: it is static. Life is not static; it is dynamic, and therefore, merged in all other physical and chemical processes at the basis of this universe. There is a limit to Descartes dichotomic categorization.

So the question regarding when life begins is totally useless and irrelevant if you are looking for an ultimate, absolute answer.

The real question is: "when does one decide that a life is meaningful?"

And that becomes a very personal question, for which nobody else can answer but the questioner.

[Stradlater]

Originally posted by angaq0k:
So the question regarding when life begins is totally useless and irrelevant if you are looking for an ultimate, absolute answer.

The real question is: "when does one decide that a life is meaningful?"

[Zimphire]

Originally posted by angaq0k:
In a sense, life is an ongoing process for which nobody has an exact idea of it's beginning.....

So the question regarding when life begins is totally useless and irrelevant if you are looking for an ultimate, absolute answer.

The real question is: "when does one decide that a life is meaningful?"

And that becomes a very personal question, for which nobody else can answer but the questioner.

( I noticed strat agreed with him also, but left out the key elements that he told me I was wrong in, AKA NO ONE KNOWS)

[CreepingDeth]

Okay, so humans will decide when they think the process has yielded something they call human?

[Stradlater]

Originally posted by CreepingDeath:
Okay, so humans will decide when they think the process has yielded something they call human?

You missed the point.

[Scientist]

Originally posted by angaq0k:
In a sense, life is an ongoing process for which nobody has an exact idea of it's beginning. Human life is just a phase of this process that started with the Big Bang (if there was such a thing!) and end up in an evaporation with the ongoing dilation of the universe.

Defining life, is to discard the whole process for the benefit of an incomplete and fixed snapshot in time.

A picture is a picture: it is static. Life is not static; it is dynamic, and therefore, merged in all other physical and chemical processes at the basis of this universe. There is a limit to Descartes dichotomic categorization.

So the question regarding when life begins is totally useless and irrelevant if you are looking for an ultimate, absolute answer.

The real question is: "when does one decide that a life is meaningful?"

And that becomes a very personal question, for which nobody else can answer but the questioner.