[CreepingDeth]

Is the concept of business evil? I'm talking 200 and above sized stuff here. Are businesses wrong, evil, harmful, etc.? Is entrepreneurialism bad as well? Do people have a right to start a business?

[Note, this is in general, please do not point to Enron or anything like that. They are bad, but we're talking in general.]

[BRussell]

Absolutely businesses are evil. We must elect Kerry because he will destroy all businesses so we can live in a natural utopian state of free love.

[CreepingDeth]

I have to ask. Are you pulling my leg, or do you really believe that. If you don't you're very convincing.

[RonnieoftheRose]

Your question is stupid because you're under the impression every leftwing, liberal or socialist has a problem with business. It's actually the other way around. Rightwingers are anti-business in the long run. They promote the idea of the quick and moralless accumulation of wealth with no long term strategy for the health of the economy, and more importantly, the health of society. There is ethical and moral business practice and then there is the irresponsible leeching of society, resources and, in the case of oil and arms, lives are destroyed so profits can be made.

[Saad]

A company is motivated primarily for profit, so ideally all businesses would always act in the public's interest, if only to maintain a large market share through positive public relations.

That said, I think many companies act only in the interests of producing more money, regardless of public opinion. For example, Coca Cola pollutes water in India. The converse is that Coca Cola offers a large source of tax revenues and gives many jobs, so it is a difficult question to ask.

[Saad]

Originally posted by RonnieoftheRose:
Your question is stupid because you're under the impression every leftwing, liberal or socialist has a problem with business. It's actually the other way around. Rightwingers are anti-business in the long run. They promote the idea of the quick and moralless accumulation of wealth with no long term strategy for the health of the economy, and more importantly, the health of society. There is ethical and moral business practice and then there is the irresponsible leeching of society, resources and, in the case of oil and arms, lives are destroyed so profits can be made.

That is very true. Enviromentalism is a very pro-business policy in the long run. (No Natural Resources=No Business Selling, Using Natural Resources) For example, deforestation around the world generates a lot of money for corporations, but ultimately make it very expensive to produce paper or lumber as forest's land values rise with demand.

[CreepingDeth]

Is it pro-business when they start restricting and taxing everything for Bamby? Making them conform to impossible standards?

[Saad]

Is it pro business to sacrifice tomorrow's resources for today's profits? Do you not think that government lands should be regulated to avoid over use?

[CreepingDeth]

Government lands???? Are you talking about businesses? Because I believe they usually own their stuff.
I think businesses are good because they generate capital. More capital equals more business. More business is more expansion. More expansion is more employees. More employees is money for the people. More money for the people is survival and luxury. More luxury money is more money into businesses. More money into other businesses repeats the cycle. Capitalism is a cycle.
It can also be bad. If gas goes up, transportation goes up. IF transportation goes up, the cost of products goes up. Higher price is less for other businesses and people to buy, less profit. You get the idea. The opposite can occur. Cheaper gas can do the opposite of higher gas. Usually.

[macvillage.net]

Originally posted by CreepingDeath:
Is the concept of business evil? I'm talking 200 and above sized stuff here. Are businesses wrong, evil, harmful, etc.? Is entrepreneurialism bad as well? Do people have a right to start a business?

[Note, this is in general, please do not point to Enron or anything like that. They are bad, but we're talking in general.]

That's a real tough question to answer.

Some companies (some of the largest in our country) are actually quite good in all respects: ethics, as an employer, environmentally, community/socially.

And of course there is the other side.

Which is the majority? I don't think it's possible to tell unless you work for every company and know the dirt. Until days before Enron finished it's colapse, there were people who swore they were a model for the rest of the nations companies.

[CreepingDeth]

What those companies did was terrible. And it was noted on the original post. Let's try to keep the Enron assholes out of it.

[BRussell]

Originally posted by CreepingDeath:
I have to ask. Are you pulling my leg, or do you really believe that. If you don't you're very convincing.

I just find your topics impossibly irresistible to troll. "Is communism good or bad?" "Are businesses evil?" I'm waiting for "Is the negro race inferior?" and "Should women be permitted to work outside the home?"

[CreepingDeth]

Originally posted by BRussell:
I just find your topics impossibly irresistible to troll. "Is communism good or bad?" "Are businesses evil?" I'm waiting for "Is the negro race inferior?" and "Should women be permitted to work outside the home?"

By the order of the quotes.
Bad
No
No
Yes

Go troll somewhere else. Isn't that against the rules?

[RonnieoftheRose]

Originally posted by CreepingDeath:

I think businesses are good because they generate capital. More capital equals more business. More business is more expansion. More expansion is more employees. More employees is money for the people.

Your favorite form of capitalism is like a sprinter trying to run a marathon in 9.8 seconds. He'll blow his knee caps after 300m. That's what happens without future planning. Better to be a tortoise than a hare.

[CreepingDeth]

I'm not sure what that really has to do with the topic of capitalism being a system…

[angaq0k]

Originally posted by BRussell:
Absolutely businesses are evil. We must elect Kerry because he will destroy all businesses so we can live in a natural utopian state of free love.

[angaq0k]

Originally posted by RonnieoftheRose:
Your question is stupid because you're under the impression every leftwing, liberal or socialist has a problem with business. It's actually the other way around. Rightwingers are anti-business in the long run. They promote the idea of the quick and moralless accumulation of wealth with no long term strategy for the health of the economy, and more importantly, the health of society. There is ethical and moral business practice and then there is the irresponsible leeching of society, resources and, in the case of oil and arms, lives are destroyed so profits can be made.

Wisdom.

[Dr.HermanG.]

Of course business is EVAL. The nerve of people investing and making a profit. The insulting part is that some people want to get ahead by working harder and working their way up. We're all supposed to be slaves of the government from birth until death.

[CreepingDeth]

Originally posted by Dr.HermanG.:
Of course business is EVAL. The nerve of people investing and making a profit. The insulting part is that some people want to get ahead by working harder and working their way up. We're all supposed to be slaves of the government from birth until death.

"All Power to the soviets!"

[Atomic Rooster]

Stay out of the forest! Trees are eviiiil! Well some trees are. The ones that fall on you when some evil fascist neonazicon taps you on the shoulder to distract you. And babies...they are just plain evil satanic sh!t machines.

[voodoo]

Businesses are not persons and cannot be attributed with personal emotions or fundamental alignments like good and evil.

[CreepingDeth]

Is the PLO evil? Yes. IS the KKK evil? Yes. Is al Qaeda evil? Yes.
So who says I can't? And good and evil isn't an emotion. Happy and sad is an emotion. Good and evil is a classification.

[voodoo]

Originally posted by CreepingDeath:
Is the PLO evil? Yes. IS the KKK evil? Yes. Is al Qaeda evil? Yes.
So who says I can't? And good and evil isn't an emotion. Happy and sad is an emotion. Good and evil is a classification.

Nope not really, good and evil is a psychological alignment. Namely, the reasoning that drives you to a conclusion. Businesses don't have a psyche nor can they therefore the question you pose in this thread doesn't apply.

While we're at defining things, PLO, KKK and Al Quaeda aren't businesses.

[Saad]

Originally posted by CreepingDeath:
Government lands???? Are you talking about businesses? Because I believe they usually own their stuff.
I think businesses are good because they generate capital. More capital equals more business. More business is more expansion. More expansion is more employees. More employees is money for the people. More money for the people is survival and luxury. More luxury money is more money into businesses. More money into other businesses repeats the cycle. Capitalism is a cycle.
It can also be bad. If gas goes up, transportation goes up. IF transportation goes up, the cost of products goes up. Higher price is less for other businesses and people to buy, less profit. You get the idea. The opposite can occur. Cheaper gas can do the opposite of higher gas. Usually.

Throughout the world, companies have access to natural resources on public lands.

[Dr.HermanG.]

Oh, the horror of it.

[macvillage.net]

Originally posted by CreepingDeath:
What those companies did was terrible. And it was noted on the original post. Let's try to keep the Enron assholes out of it.

Why is Enron exempt? They had more political backing than any other non-government contractor in our nations history. If anything they should have been held to a higher standard, rather than be protected like you are doing.

Enron wasn't unique. There are literally thousands of cases like that taking place constantly. Enron was big, and it fell hard. That's why it was newsworthy. A few others hit the spotlight in it's wake as well (Adelphia for example).

Enron was worse because of all the protection politicians have/did give it. But is it less of a crime on behalf of the company if politicians don't see what's going on?

Who are you trying to protect?

Enron changed the business ethics curriculum for anyone entering the study of business, economics, trade, ethics, politics. It's reshaped no less than 30% of the content. To ignore is about as bad for the field of study as to deny the holocuast when studying world history. It leaves a giant obvious hole.

What's important is that we learn from Enron, and why it was allowed to do what it did.... and ensure that nobody can ever repeat it.


My first change if I was in charge of fixing this issue would be for more criminal liability. Officers of the company, and politicans who allowed it and ignored the problem. It's clear it was seen by quite a few priviliaged people.

Part of our capitalist society concept is that you get what you work for... when you do something criminal... you should get exactly what you earn. Jail. For a long time.

Unless we hold the guilty accountable for what they did, Enron will just be the first of many. Capitalism relies on a certain level of trust. Companies are just to big to audit everything 100% (nobody in a big company knows what's going on everywhere). If our economy is to trust in capitalism, we must have some assurance that this type of activity isn't tolerated, and will be dealt with swiftly, and fairly.


If the US isn't interested in protecting a core value of capitalism... why do we fight to bring it everywhere?

---

PLO, KKK and Al Quaeda aren't businesses.

Not legally, but they opperate in a very similar manner. In fact more so than many legitimate companies do. So does the maffia. I wrote an entire paper that pointed out how Goodfellas is really a prime example of a bad business. All are examples of organized crime. There's a reason that term exists. Everything from social structure, finance, rules/regulations, payroll, IT, etc. The only difference is a legitimate company pays taxes as an entity (Corporation), where these organizations live as either non-profits, or don't have any legal recognition (though still may be taxed a bit as persnal [not to be confused with sole proprietor]).

[mo]

Originally posted by BRussell:
I just find your topics impossibly irresistible to troll. "Is communism good or bad?" "Are businesses evil?" I'm waiting for "Is the negro race inferior?" and "Should women be permitted to work outside the home?"

Thank you.

[angaq0k]

Originally posted by CreepingDeath:
"All Power to the soviets!"

Da! Kamarrad!

[MacGorilla]

Business are neither good or bad but they can act in either good ways (...thinking of an example....Ben and Jerry's) or bad (Archer Daniel Midlands).

[Wiskedjak]

Originally posted by BRussell:
Absolutely businesses are evil. We must elect Kerry because he will destroy all businesses so we can live in a natural utopian state of free love.

You should stop telling conservatives what they want to hear ... they get enough of that from Bush.

[RAILhead]

My business is good. It helps me pay the bills, helps me live in the home I just bought, let me buy the cars I drive, the food I eat, pay for the vacations I go on.

So no, business for me isn't evil -- it's the means to an end.

Maury

[tie]

Originally posted by BRussell:
Absolutely businesses are evil. We must elect Kerry because he will destroy all businesses so we can live in a natural utopian state of free love.

I for one really believe this. I am also confident that Kerry agrees. Here is a quote: "Businesses .. must .. sensitively .. die .. !" Here's a Bush quote: "My .. mission .. to .. feed .. America .. to .. Kenny Boy Lay's .. wolves .. is .. accomplished!"