[djohnson]

Why do we even use the terms? What difference is the between a black and a white person??? Also, why not use the term American, Mexican, Canadian, Englishman, Frenchman, etc... I know some people of African decent that can trace their lines back in America much earlier then some of my Eurpoean decendant friends... Doesn't that make them more American then the other guy?

Sorry to rant, but this is the place for such things and I want to know everyone's opinion.

[Millennium]

When it comes down to it, race and nationality are states of mind more than anything else. Artificial discinctions, drawn up originally to drive people apart and still serving that purpose.

[RAILhead]

I still try to get people to refer to me as an Irish Italian American, but no one will: I'm just "white" to everyone. :/

I've always thought African American was an odd moniker unless the specific person used to live in Africa and now lives in America. Who gives a rip where someone's extended family comes from outside of personal family history? That's great if you do, but why should I have to "care" by acknowledging you as such? Should I call my Korean neighbors Korean Americans? No, they were born and reared in the USA. The Chinese couple down the street, however, ARE Chinese Americans because they were born and reared in China — then moved to the US.

Anyway, I think all this ethnic labelling is absurd. If you were born in the US, you're an American. If you were born outside the US and moved here, then you're a Whatever-American in my book.

Rant's over now.
Maury

[djohnson]

Originally posted by RAILhead:
Anyway, I think all this ethnic labelling is absurd. If you were born in the US, you're an American. If you were born outside the US and moved here, then you're a Whatever-American in my book.

Exactly! I guess this thread will turn into a rant thread, but thats ok with me!

But wait... If I move to Australia, will I be an American-Australian?

[PacHead]

African American is a stupid name. Not every "black" person in the USA is an African American, and what about a white person from Africa ? Are these African Americans also ?

Tuh-Ray-zah "ketchup" Kerry is an African American. If Kerry should win, I wonder if that would make her the first African American first lady.

[phoenixboy70]

like i stated in another thread.

divisons run first and formost along income/class, rather than race and nationality.

i don't believe in "races" at all, and nationality is only as much of an importance to me, as language might be a barrier for conversation and understanding.

i usually refer to people of european decent as "whites"...but that kind of labelling is rather meaningless. people are as little "white" as they are "black".

oh, and of course the way you use language shapes the way you look at things.

but thanks for starting this thread, showing (when reading between the lines) that race in fact IS VERY MUCH AN ISSUE in the us of a. the responses also reflect this.

[CreepingDeth]

Well, there might be an insignificant difference like melanin and stuff like that, but that's about it.

One thing I don't get is black people are called African-Americans, but white people are…uh…just white. Frankly, all the hyphenation is meaningless. I'm not Italian-American, I'm an American. It is pointless to have these racial and national subdivisions. "I'm from ITaly but I'm an American" would be a better attitude.

Oh yeah Phoenix, I don't feel any economic barrier or whatever you're talking about.

[Dr.HermanG.]

I think knowing where you come from is very important to know where you are going.

I for one, despite being an "American," still maintain my ethnic heritage because it's important. I never refer to myself as American because in the grand scheme of things my family's roots have barely existed on this continent long enough for that to be a reality. Maybe in 500 years or so it might make sense.

"White and black" are dumb. There's nothing wrong with Asian, European, African as a general reference. I suppose African is most generic since countries there were colonized, names changed, and it's difficult to trace one's roots back since countries and borders themselves weren't as important as tribal boundaries.

[phoenixboy70]

Originally posted by CreepingDeath:
Oh yeah Phoenix, I don't feel any economic barrier or whatever you're talking about.

yeah, i'm sure you don't. because "america is a completely classless society...it's all just one biig middle class." rrrrriiiight.

[Dakar]

Originally posted by djohnson:
Why do we even use the terms? What difference is the between a black and a white person??? Also, why not use the term American, Mexican, Canadian, Englishman, Frenchman, etc... I know some people of African decent that can trace their lines back in America much earlier then some of my Eurpoean decendant friends... Doesn't that make them more American then the other guy?

Sorry to rant, but this is the place for such things and I want to know everyone's opinion.

Quite honestly I find it to be a handy qualifier like pointing out the person wearing a red shirt or blonde hair. My question is, should I feel bad for using it to make identification easier? (This to say to point out a friend to someone or, to help make remembering someone easier. Why dance around saying "he's black" when trying to help someone recall someone by notable features? Doesn't that just qualify as PC bull-****?)

[PacHead]

Originally posted by phoenixboy70:
yeah, i'm sure you don't. because "america is a completely classless society...it's all just one biig middle class." rrrrriiiight.

Um, there's poor people and rich people and everybody else inbetween in America. I feel just as comfortable walking into some "high class" store on 5th avenue as I do walking around some ghetto neighborhood in the Bronx or someplace.

On the subway, a 5 dollar an hour worker sits next to a stockbroker making 6 figures a year. I don't see this class distinction. Where you from ?

[Dr.HermanG.]

You obviously don't know about the SEKRET HYKLASS subways that only Wall Street executives can use. And then there's the cars at the back of the regular trains where the lower classes have to sit.

C'mon, dude, get out more.

[CreepingDeth]

I thought you socialist wanted to unite people? Class Warfare is so old.
Find a new trick.
I don't give a **** if you're rich. Good for you. Work hard, employ someone. See, Phoenix, the reason you hate rich people is because you're very jealous and hate capitalism and free makrets.

[phoenixboy70]

Originally posted by PacHead:
Um, there's poor people and rich people and everybody else inbetween in America. I feel just as comfortable walking into some "high class" store on 5th avenue as I do walking around some ghetto neighborhood in the Bronx or someplace.

mhmmhmhmmm. yeah. sure. right.

there are no gated communities, no ghettos, no country clubs, no suburbs...

lemme tell ya something, you try and get into a country club, which will have asian-american, african-american and many other members as a regular steel worker...and we can talk "comfortable" again.

[CreepingDeth]

Yeah, so you wanna take everyone's money and make them equal! And then we'll make the rich people be poor because rich are EVIL and give the poor people more money than the rich people! What do we call it? I don't know Joe! It is a just and fair system! Yes, fair to the point of dictatorial oppression! I got it!

We'll call it Communism.


Please, spare us.
You just hate people with more than you.

[PacHead]

Originally posted by phoenixboy70:
lemme tell ya something, you try and get into a country club, which will have asian-american, african-american and many other members as a regular steel worker...and we can talk "comfortable" again.

The main reason a "steel worker" would not get into a fancy country club is because the membership fee is probably more than their yearly salary.

Are you even American ? I don't think you have a clue as to what you're talking about. You want to talk about class systems ? Look at india.

[phoenixboy70]

Originally posted by CreepingDeath:
See, Phoenix, the reason you hate rich people is because you're very jealous and hate capitalism and free makrets.

see, the reason why you think i "hate" rich people shows that you are far more jealous, than i ever have been, or will be.

the difference between you and me is that you're an a55kissing sycophant, while i am not.

i don't hate rich people, just like i don't hate poor people. as matter of fact, i don't hate anybody. i just point out things the way they are. and that's something you really hate.

[phoenixboy70]

Originally posted by CreepingDeath:
We'll call it Communism.

you don't have a fu<king clue what communism is, do you?

[phoenixboy70]

Originally posted by PacHead:
The main reason a "steel worker" would not get into a fancy country club is because the membership fee is probably more than their yearly salary.

thanks for making my point.

[CreepingDeth]

Jealous?
You're the one bitching because a some people can't get into a country club!
There is no right to country club membership.

Where were be before Phoenix pulled the "Class Warfare" one on us?

[PacHead]

Originally posted by phoenixboy70:
thanks for making my point.

And that point was ?

You know, I'd love to go out and get myself that new ferrari today, but unfortunately, teh evil caste system in America is holding me back.

Oh, well, guess I'll just have to work a bit harder.

[phoenixboy70]

Originally posted by CreepingDeath:
Jealous?
You're the one bitching because a some people can't get into a country club!
There is no right to country club membership.

you really don't get it, do you?

how old are you anyway? do you have any formal education beyond highschool?

look, i suggest if you want to keep on bitching about communists and socialism, why don't you go and read a book called "das kapital", and then try to understand it.

the example i gave was to illustrate that divisional lines first and foremost run between groups of different income, rather than race, or ethnic heritage...or do you see a lot of wall street types hanging out with people working the late shift at denny's?

i didn't think so.

[phoenixboy70]

Originally posted by PacHead:
And that point was ?

that divisional lines run along income/class.

and please refrain from the stupid protestant work ethic argument. class mobility, though not impeded by law like in india, is fairly tight in the us. to say the least. especially downward.

[PacHead]

Originally posted by phoenixboy70:
or do you see a lot of wall street types hanging out with people working the late shift at denny's?

i didn't think so.

Again, absolutely ridiculous. Workers tend to hang with their own kind. Their education levels are similiar, their income is similiar and they do afterall share the same job.

And if a worker from denny's wants to go to a bar around the wall street area (where I'm sure you'll find plenty of wall street workers), nobody is stopping him.

If you work at denny's, then I now understand your resentment of others who make decent money.

[Dr.HermanG.]

Originally posted by phoenixboy70:

lemme tell ya something, you try and get into a country club, which will have asian-american, african-american and many other members as a regular steel worker...and we can talk "comfortable" again.

Why would a steel worker want to go to a country club? I doubt seriously a steel worker would want to go anywhere that didn't have Budweiser or Miller on tap.

"Chivas? Sherry? Whut thuh heayell is that crap?"

[Dr.HermanG.]

Originally posted by phoenixboy70:
...or do you see a lot of wall street types hanging out with people working the late shift at denny's?

Why would they?

[CreepingDeth]

Now how would their schedules work?
Are you saying I should go read Marx?

I agree, on a certain level. Some people and places, like colleges, break everyone down to races and classes. I don't care about either.

[phoenixboy70]

Originally posted by PacHead:
Workers tend to hang with their own kind. Their education levels are similiar, their income is similiar and they do afterall share the same job.

: LAFFO :

thanks for making my point, again.

[CreepingDeth]

Then…isn't their choice?

[phoenixboy70]

Originally posted by Dr.HermanG.:
Why would a steel worker want to go to a country club? I doubt seriously a steel worker would want to go anywhere that didn't have Budweiser or Miller on tap.

heh. how "classist" of you.

the point i'm making isn't that steelworkers should be admitted into country clubs, but that people tend to associate almost exclusively depending on their income and class, rather than race or ethnicity.

[PacHead]

Originally posted by phoenixboy70:
: LAFFO :

thanks for making my point, again.

The only point one can conclude from your posts, is that you want everybody to earn exactly the same. You want everybody to wear grey clothes. You want everybody to live in similiar houses. You want to force people as to who they are or are not allowed to associate with. etc.

Sounds like a commie to me.

[phoenixboy70]

Originally posted by Dr.HermanG.:
Why would they?

yeah, interesting question. why would they?

[phoenixboy70]

Originally posted by PacHead:
The only point one can conclude from your posts, is that you want everybody to earn exactly the same. You want everybody to wear grey clothes. You want everybody to live in similiar houses. You want to force people as to who they are or are not allowed to associate with. etc.

WTF?

[CreepingDeth]

Originally posted by PacHead:
The only point one can conclude from your posts, is that you want everybody to earn exactly the same. You want everybody to wear grey clothes. You want everybody to live in similiar houses. You want to force people as to who they are or are not allowed to associate with. etc.

Sounds like a commie to me.

What's behind Door #1, Johnny?
The right answer!

Here's your free duck.

[phoenixboy70]

Originally posted by CreepingDeath:
/got nothing

fixed™

[Dr.HermanG.]

Originally posted by phoenixboy70:
heh. how "classist" of you.

the point i'm making isn't that steelworkers should be admitted into country clubs, but that people tend to associate almost exclusively depending on their income and class, rather than race or ethnicity.

[RAILhead]

Originally posted by phoenixboy70:
mhmmhmhmmm. yeah. sure. right.

there are no gated communities, no ghettos, no country clubs, no suburbs...

lemme tell ya something, you try and get into a country club, which will have asian-american, african-american and many other members as a regular steel worker...and we can talk "comfortable" again.

I'm a member of our local country club, and there are a handful of blacks there, too. If you can afford the dues and your membership app is accepted, that's it.

What's your deal with well-off people living the way they want to, anyway? Let them be and quit whining about their lifestyles, bub.

Maury

[CreepingDeth]

Social Justice.
That's what they call it.

[RonnieoftheRose]

Originally posted by CreepingDeath:
[B hate capitalism and free makrets. [/B]

Where is this free market?

[angaq0k]

Originally posted by djohnson:
Why do we even use the terms? What difference is the between a black and a white person??? Also, why not use the term American, Mexican, Canadian, Englishman, Frenchman, etc... I know some people of African decent that can trace their lines back in America much earlier then some of my Eurpoean decendant friends... Doesn't that make them more American then the other guy?

Sorry to rant, but this is the place for such things and I want to know everyone's opinion.

I was born in Quebec, Canada. You could call me French-Canadian.

My mother is 2 nd generation Irish immigrant, not speaking a word of English. Her Grand-Father was the son of an Irish Catholic mother and English Protestant father (whom converted to Catholicism).

On my father's side, we can trace back to the very beginning of the French colony of Nouvelle-France, amongst the first born here, with a few First Nation injections between now and then. But our last name is a strong indication of North-African origins, from the time of the Crusades.

What am I?

I am also an intellectual, with a good professional career, while my father is a plumber who made it very well in life, while my mother is not educated at all, raising to awful brats... (I was not so bad anyway...)

Do we need races? Are those real? If I remember correctly, there is this guy whom was a strong defender of the idea that races make no sense, until he was proved that forensic profilers are able to identify people by specific sets of genetic characteristics.

But in the end, having skin colour is no different than eye colour and ear shape. It is just one different attribute carried by our DNA.

Pretty much everything else is cultural.

[Dr.HermanG.]

Free Market™.

It's Everywhere You Want To Be™

[CreepingDeth]

Originally posted by Dr.HermanG.:
Free Market™.

It's Everywhere You Want To Be™

Except in the following locations:
Cuba
Europe
Russia
Vietnam
North Korea
Most of Africa
Most of the Middle East
A state that rhythms with California

Also, service is not guaranteed under these governments:
Socialism
Fascism
Democratic Socialism
Dictatorship
Tribalism

And many others!

[phoenixboy70]

Originally posted by Dr.HermanG.:
Free Market™.

It's Everywhere You Want To Be™

NOT™

[phoenixboy70]

Originally posted by RAILhead:
I'm a member of our local country club, and there are a handful of blacks there, too. If you can afford the dues and your membership app is accepted, that's it.

...which again proves my point. thanx.

[phoenixboy70]

Originally posted by CreepingDeath:
Also, service is not guaranteed under these governments:

wtf?

[Dr.HermanG.]

Originally posted by phoenixboy70:
NOT™

Yes™

[gerbnl]

Originally posted by phoenixboy70:

Ok, now go to the lower lounge, where there is a thread Most Idiotic Thing You've Ever Done and explain to the brave people there that you've tried to educate people in the upper lounge.

Now go on and be honest about it...

Most of them are christians anyway and will forgive you and take you up in their midst again.

[macvillage.net]

Originally posted by Millennium:
When it comes down to it, race and nationality are states of mind more than anything else. Artificial discinctions, drawn up originally to drive people apart and still serving that purpose.

Biologically speaking. There are no human 'races'. Just genetic variation within the human race.

[phoenixboy70]

Originally posted by macvillage.net:
Biologically speaking. There are no human 'races'. Just genetic variation within the human race.

[djohnson]

Originally posted by macvillage.net:


Biologically speaking. There are no human 'races'. Just genetic variation within the human race.

True, but some people are so ingrained that certain people are not human, I dont think anyone can convince them otherwise.