[djohnson]

Throughout the course of history, the strongest military has shaped history. Why is it that even though the US has the strongest military, people do not want the US to shape histroy?

[Logic]

Originally posted by djohnson:
Throughout the course of history, the strongest military has shaped history. Why is it that even though the US has the strongest military, people do not want the US to shape histroy?

duh.......

Nazi Germany, Napoleon, Gengis Khan, and the list goes on for former strongest militaries and their leaders and I think very few want that trend to continue. Well except those who vote for Bush.

[lil'babykitten]

Why should we want the US to be "shaping history" just because it has a strong military force?

The only history the US has "shaped" is one of destruction, death and misery.

Am I supposed to be appreciative?

[SimeyTheLimey]

Originally posted by lil'babykitten:
The only history the US has "shaped" is one of destruction, death and misery.

Am I supposed to be appreciative?

You know more history that to make a stupid comment like that.

[BRussell]

Precisely because America is powerful, we must be sensitive about expressing our power and influence. Our goal is to patiently build the momentum of freedom, not create resentment for America itself. We pursue our goals; we will listen to others; we want strong friends to join us, not weak neighbors to dominate. In all our dealings with other nations, we will display the modesty of true confidence and strength.

I'm not so sure the role of the United States is to go around the world and say this is the way it's got to be. We can help. And maybe it's just our difference in government, the way we view government. I mean I want to empower people. I want to help people help themselves, not have government tell people what to do. I just don't think it's the role of the United States to walk into a country and say, we do it this way, so should you.

[djohnson]

I am guessing then that ya'll will throw in these Ancient Empires as well?

Rome, Greece, Egypt...

Each once controlled a vast empire and made some great strides. What about these more recent ones:

Spanish Empire, English Empire, Russian Empire, Chinese Dynasties

Why do people always dwell on the negative instead of the positive?

[Millennium]

Actually, there have been times when the US did not have the strongest military. The classic example would be the Cold War, when the Soviet military was actually stronger. This fact didn't matter as much as you might think, since the US military was still strong enough to destroy it, though only at the cost of its own destruction, which is why it never happened, The same was pretty much true the other way around; the Soviet army could have destroyed the US army, but would itself have been destroyed in the process.

Why don't people want the US to shape world history? Pretty much for the same reason that the US doesn't want anyone else to shape world history. What people fear most is a system where their current way of life is no longer possible. American culture, for all its flaws, is still incredibly seductive, as evidenced by the spread of American pop culture worldwide. This can be seen most easily in terms of entertainment, but the spread of McDonald's and similar institutions is also rather telling. Many people fear -to variyng degrees of accuracy- that this is crowding out their own cultural traditions, and that their way of life is dying.

[phoenixboy70]

Originally posted by djohnson:
Each once controlled a vast empire and made some great strides. What about these more recent ones:

Spanish Empire, English Empire, Russian Empire, Chinese Dynasties

Why do people always dwell on the negative instead of the positive?

maybe because humans have moved on A LOT in recent history. just in the last 100 years we have discovered more about humanity and what life holds for each individual than in all the thousands of years before combined.

anybody who says "it's rather about nations/god/country than HUMANITY in general" is just completely ignorant and full of it.

afaic, we don't even need leaders anymore (or empires). there are issues that are far more pressing (universal healthcare, science, research, sustainable growth, the ecology...)

[djohnson]

Originally posted by Millennium:
...American culture, for all its flaws, is still incredibly seductive, as evidenced by the spread of American pop culture worldwide. This can be seen most easily in terms of entertainment, but the spread of McDonald's and similar institutions is also rather telling. Many people fear -to variyng degrees of accuracy- that this is crowding out their own cultural traditions, and that their way of life is dying.

A very reasonable idea. To answer my own question, other countries do not want the US's culture to spread and overtake their own. This would also account for many countries denying that the US has its own culture. Now, what about the Americans that do not want the US's culture to spread?

[Millennium]

Originally posted by lil'babykitten:
Why should we want the US to be "shaping history" just because it has a strong military force?

The only history the US has "shaped" is one of destruction, death and misery.

Am I supposed to be appreciative?

Hyperbole doesn't become you, Kitten.

It is true that the US has been responsible for some of the vilest acts over the last couple of centuries. It has, however, also been responsible for some of the greatest good over that same time period. The same could be said of pretty much any nation, though few have achieved that kind of scale. The question is, where does the balance lie? Has the good outweighed the bad? I would argue that it has.

[djohnson]

Originally posted by phoenixboy70:
...there are issues that are far more pressing (universal healthcare, science, research, sustainable growth, the ecology...)

Those are good points. I don't know many people that don't want a good economy, enviroment, better education, better healthcare, etc. Well I guess there are those that just want a fast buck... But anyways, for those things to become the foremost idea and actions, the world would have to unite into 1 government/culture. That will happen eventually...

[djohnson]

Originally posted by Millennium:
Hyperbole doesn't become you, Kitten.

It is true that the US has been responsible for some of the vilest acts over the last couple of centuries. It has, however, also been responsible for some of the greatest good over that same time period. The same could be said of pretty much any nation, though few have achieved that kind of scale. The question is, where does the balance lie? Has the good outweighed the bad? I would argue that it has.

I must agree that the US has done some autrocious thing, actually using 2 nukes comes to mind(but that also has good points).... At the same time, I highly doubt our medical skills would be anywhere near where it is now without the US. So will kill some but save potentially billions. Life is full of trade offs.

[Lysistrata]

Throughout the course of history, the strongest military has shaped history. Why is it that even though the US has the strongest military, people do not want the US to shape histroy (sic)

Strongest military? The US hasn't won a war on it's own since the Mexican war in 1848. It was defeated by a third world country (Vietnam). Nowadays it only attacks very weak countries, and then mainly from the air (how brave!)

[lil'babykitten]

I'm more appreciative of the scientific and technological advances the US has made rather than it's military "successes". Technological developments etc etc are, in my opinion, more spectacular and important.

The military has far too often demonstrated the 'dirty side' of America. I don't really have much 'love' for it. Perhaps if it was not generally used as a means to exploit other countries I might have a different opinion.

[RAILhead]

Originally posted by lil'babykitten:
Why should we want the US to be "shaping history" just because it has a strong military force?

The only history the US has "shaped" is one of destruction, death and misery.

Am I supposed to be appreciative?

I'm not miserable, FWIW.

My family has had members in every major war, and thanks to their courage and commitment — and that of others — we're all able to post in this little forum. America's "power" has made the world a better place, and only an idiot — yes, an idiot — could think otherwise. And yes, you should be appreciative.

Maury

[dcolton]

Originally posted by Lysistrata:
Strongest military? The US hasn't won a war on it's own since the Mexican war in 1848. It was defeated by a third world country (Vietnam). Nowadays it only attacks very weak countries, and then mainly from the air (how brave!)

How brave? Seems to be pretty damned smart to me. Why wouldn't we bomb the hell out of our enemy prior to putting our soldiers in harms way? Or would you rather the US to just send in troops so there would be a higher casualty rate?

As for Vietnam...militarily, not really a loss if you think about it.

[voyageur]

Originally posted by lil'babykitten:
I'm more appreciative of the scientific and technological advances the US has made rather than it's military "successes". Technological developments etc etc are, in my opinion, more spectacular and important.

And as an American, I have to say that while I understand that a strong military is important as a deterrent, and can even spur basic research in new technologies, an over-emphasis on military spending comes at the expense of medical research. The National Institutes of Health, the main source of funding for medical research, are now looking at across-the-board 10% cuts in all grants this year. The US has a wonderful medical research record that has benefitted many people. It's sad to me that we're making such huge cuts in order to allot taxes to war.

[phoenixboy70]

Originally posted by RAILhead:
America's "power" has made the world a better place,

except that "america's power", in this case, isn't it's military.

[dcolton]

Originally posted by lil'babykitten:
I'm more appreciative of the scientific and technological advances the US has made rather than it's military "successes". Technological developments etc etc are, in my opinion, more spectacular and important.

The military has far too often demonstrated the 'dirty side' of America. I don't really have much 'love' for it. Perhaps if it was not generally used as a means to exploit other countries I might have a different opinion.

Where do you think a lot of the scientific and technological advances come from?

[lil'babykitten]

Originally posted by dcolton:
Where do you think a lot of the scientific and technological advances come from?

Huh?

I'm not talking about advances in weapons capabilities or technology for military purposes. On the whole, it is an utter waste of money.

Originally posted by voyageur:
And as an American, I have to say that while I understand that a strong military is important as a deterrent, and can even spur basic research in new technologies, an over-emphasis on military spending comes at the expense of medical research. The National Institutes of Health, the main source of funding for medical research, are now looking at across-the-board 10% cuts in all grants this year. The US has a wonderful medical research record that has benefitted many people. It's sad to me that we're making such huge cuts in order to allot taxes to war.

[djohnson]

Originally posted by voyageur:
...It's sad to me that we're making such huge cuts in order to allot taxes to war.

No allocating more money to a war and away from research, just going into more debt.

[voyageur]

Huh?

[placebo1969]

Originally posted by lil'babykitten:
Huh?

I'm not talking about advances in weapons capabilities or technology for military purposes. On the whole, it is an utter waste of money.

I'm sure someone else has a more complete list, but how about RADAR? That's certainly not a military only use anymore. Cell phone technology, GPS and countless medical advances (yes, I understand the irony in that) have all come from the military. The military is more than just "death and destruction."

[voodoo]

Originally posted by placebo1969:
I'm sure someone else has a more complete list, but how about RADAR? That's certainly not a military only use anymore. Cell phone technology, GPS and countless medical advances (yes, I understand the irony in that) have all come from the military. The military is more than just "death and destruction."

Sure but these tech advances can well be made without the military ordering them.

[Logic]

I forgot this in my first post so I'll post it here:

Do you want to see more 9/11's in the US? Because that is what military influence leads to.

[macvillage.net]

Originally posted by Millennium:
Actually, there have been times when the US did not have the strongest military. The classic example would be the Cold War, when the Soviet military was actually stronger. This fact didn't matter as much as you might think, since the US military was still strong enough to destroy it, though only at the cost of its own destruction, which is why it never happened, The same was pretty much true the other way around; the Soviet army could have destroyed the US army, but would itself have been destroyed in the process.

Post WWI the US even did away with Rifles, instead training with sticks, since it was cheaper (and everyone promised WWI was 'the war to end all wars').

[Zimphire]

Originally posted by Logic:
duh.......

Nazi Germany, Napoleon, Gengis Khan, and the list goes on for former strongest militaries and their leaders and I think very few want that trend to continue. Well except those who vote for Bush.

Please, we aren't trying to conquer the world like those you listed.

[Zimphire]

Originally posted by Logic:
I forgot this in my first post so I'll post it here:

Do you want to see more 9/11's in the US? Because that is what military influence leads to.

That would have happened regardless. We are the "Great Satan"

[lil'babykitten]

Originally posted by Zimphire:
Please, we aren't trying to conquer the world like those you listed.

lol, I like that little addition there.

[Logic]

Originally posted by Zimphire:
Please, we aren't trying to conquer the world like those you listed.

You aren't? What makes you so certain of that?

[Zimphire]

Originally posted by lil'babykitten:
lol, I like that little addition there.

It's obvious I am speaking about the three he listed.

[Logic]

Originally posted by Zimphire:
That would have happened regardless. We are the "Great Satan"

Sure sure........ The truth hurts.....

[Zimphire]

Originally posted by Logic:
You aren't? What makes you so certain of that?

I am not engulfed in paranoia and fear.

[Zimphire]

Originally posted by Logic:
The truth hurts.....

I'll take your word for it.

[Logic]

Originally posted by Zimphire:
I am not engulfed in paranoia and fear.

Just schizophrenia and delusions?

[Logic]

Originally posted by Zimphire:
I'll take your word for it.

I know. It's probably a while since you experienced anything even close to the truth.

[PacHead]

Just face it, we are the strongest, baddest, meanest and smartest dudes on the block. And if we don't like what you're doing, we're gonna kick your butts, and there aint a damn thing you can do about it.

Welcome to reality.

[lil'babykitten]

Originally posted by Zimphire:
It's obvious I am speaking about the three he listed.

I know. Now write it without the 'like those you listed' part.

[phoenixboy70]

Originally posted by PacHead:
Just face it, we are the strongest, baddest, meanest and smartest dudes on the block. And if we don't like what you're doing, we're gonna kick your butts, and there aint a damn thing you can do about it.

Welcome to reality.

welcome to fascism.

[voodoo]

Originally posted by Zimphire:
Please, we aren't trying to conquer the world like those you listed.

So you are using different tactics. If it walks like a duck...

[djohnson]

Originally posted by phoenixboy70:
welcome to fascism.

Is that really much worse than Communism?

[djohnson]

Originally posted by voodoo:
So you are using different tactics. If it walks like a duck...

Are you trying to say that the US is going to take over the world?

[voodoo]

Originally posted by djohnson:
Is that really much worse than Communism?

..that was the other option

I think you missed the middle bit.

[djohnson]

Originally posted by PacHead:
Just face it, we are the strongest, baddest, meanest and smartest dudes on the block. And if we don't like what you're doing, we're gonna kick your butts, and there aint a damn thing you can do about it.

Welcome to reality.

Too bad the US has enough restraint to hold back and not invade every other nation... Think how fast it would take to sweep through all of North and South America?

[voodoo]

Originally posted by djohnson:
Are you trying to say that the US is going to take over the world?

influencing the world with the use of the most powerful military and shaping it.. call it what you will.

[djohnson]

Originally posted by voodoo:
..that was the other option

I think you missed the middle bit.

Unfortunately in here, there is little to no middle...

[djohnson]

Originally posted by voodoo:
influencing the world with the use of the most powerful military and shaping it.. call it what you will.

Fine, we can just withdrawal aid from all countries except those we want to succeed.

[voodoo]

Originally posted by djohnson:
Unfortunately in here, there is little to no middle...

..in here being what? Your mind?

[djohnson]

Originally posted by voodoo:
..in here being what? Your mind?

Ahh... So that is where those voices are coming from.

[djohnson]

Originally posted by Zimphire:
That would have happened regardless. We are the "Great Satan"

If the US is the great satan, then why do some muslims want to live in the US? All 3 million+ cannot want to destroy the US, can they?