[BlackGriffen]

Xinhua reports:

[...]
A US Army investigation into the abuse at Abu Ghraib prison finds that the scandal was not just caused by a small circle of rogue soldiers but resulted from failure of leadership at the highest level of the US command in Iraq, The Washington Post reported Friday.

The Post report quoted anonymous officials as saying that the Army report, which runs some 9,000 pages and has not been completed, says a combination of leadership failings, confounding policies and absolute confusion at the prison led to the abuse.
[...]

Apparently the charges will include 20 more low ranking soldiers and 5 "civilian contractors" (euphemism of mercs?).

No officers to be charged as yet.

BlackGriffen

[BlackGriffen]

D'oh! Forgot to give the link.

Also from the CSM:

The Washington Post reports that the US military's investigation into the abuse by US military personnel of Iraqi prisoners at Abu Ghraib prison in Baghdad, headed by Maj. Gen. George Fay, will report that the incidents at Abu Ghraib weren't just the actions of a band of "rogue military police soldiers," but resulted from leadership failures that rise to the "highest levels" of the US military in Iraq. While the report will recommend new charges against 20 low-ranking soldiers, the Post reports, it will not, however, recommend any criminal charges against Army officers.
[...]
Reuters, meanwhile, reports that an article (subscription required) published in the prestigious British medical journal, The Lancet, alleges that US military doctors played a role in the abuse of prisoners at Abu Ghraib. The report, written by University of Minnesota bioethicist Steven Miles, cites evidence that some doctors "falsified death certificates to cover up killings and hid evidence of beatings."

Ouch.

BG

[voyageur]

I was reading about the doctors' involvement earlier today, and it's very sad, and also not surprising in light of history. I do hope that the investigation results in the removal of the highter-ups who were involved, but I will be surprised if this happens.

[SimeyTheLimey]

Why report reports about the Washington Post article? Why not post the Washington Post article itself?

One senior defense official said the investigation specifically decries the fact that many soldiers saw or knew of the abuse and never reported it to authorities. Concerns are also raised about the vague instructions from high-ranking officials about what was allowed during interrogations at the prison, which led military intelligence and military police soldiers to misapply them, the official said.

"The interrogation policy was misunderstood, and it was one of a few policies that failed," the official said. "There was total confusion about the military intelligence tactics, techniques and procedures."

Another defense official said the Army study would be "a comprehensive report, a thorough look at another aspect of Abu Ghraib, to include up to the CJTF-command level," a reference to Lt. Gen. Ricardo S. Sanchez, who until recently was the top U.S. commander in Iraq. Others said the report criticizes the leadership but softens its assessment by noting that top officers were focused on the insurgency that erupted last summer.

Officials said the probe criticizes commanders for essentially failing to pick up the strong signs of abuse as they rose through the chain of command and for all but ignoring reports from the International Committee of the Red Cross detailing the abuse.

The top command "shares responsibility for not ensuring proper leadership, proper discipline and proper resources," one defense official said. "Command should have paid more attention to the issue. Signals, symptoms of abuse weren't fully vetted to the top."

Washington Post

So basically, the instructions from commanders were misunderstood by low-ranking military policemen, and low-ranking Military Intelligence linguists, and some civilian contract employees (not "mercenaries"). They then committed their crimes, for which they are being prosecuted. The command then failed for not finding out and stopping it soon enough.

The officials, speaking on the condition of anonymity because the report has not yet been completed, said the 9,000-page document says that a combination of leadership failings, confounding policies, lack of discipline and absolute confusion at the prison led to the abuse. It widens the scope of culpability from seven MPs who have been charged with abuse to include nearly 20 low-ranking soldiers who could face criminal prosecution in military courts. No Army officers, however, are expected to face criminal charges.

Yup, that sounds about right, and about what we already knew. 20 low ranking soldiers actually involved, and some leadership failures.

[BlackGriffen]

Originally posted by SimeyTheLimey:
Why report reports about the Washington Post article? Why not post the Washington Post article itself?

100% pure laziness. Xinhua and CSM are what Google's News Aggregator giveth me to work with.

So

BG

[Dr.HermanG.]

Ah, another thread much ado about nothing.

[CreepingDeth]

The Twilight Zone

Guy 1: Whhhhooooa! What happened?

Guy 2: Dude, I don't know.

Guy 1: I think this is, like, one of those space-time thingies.

Guy 2: Maybe it was a vast time portal opened up by some loser on a Mac board who has a strangle hold on four month old news.

Guy 1: Whoa.

Narrator: It appears the boys have stepped into what this man like to call, the New York Times Zone.

Do do do doo do do do doo do doo do do do doo do do do doo do do do doo.

[angaq0k]

Originally posted by SimeyTheLimey:
So basically, the instructions from commanders were misunderstood by low-ranking military policemen, and low-ranking Military Intelligence linguists, and some civilian contract employees (not "mercenaries"). They then committed their crimes, for which they are being prosecuted. The command then failed for not finding out and stopping it soon enough.
(...)
Yup, that sounds about right, and about what we already knew. 20 low ranking soldiers actually involved, and some leadership failures.

Thank God!

It was just a misunderstanding!!!!!

[angaq0k]

Originally posted by Dr.HermanG.:
Ah, another thread much ado about nothing.

Yup!

Victims are not even Americans!

[CreepingDeth]

Mommy! They put panties on my head! I know dad was put in a meat grinder and the soldier's friend outside was shot, but it hurts having panties on my had! Waaaaah!

[Dr.HermanG.]

I propose we return the prison to the previous regime and see who complains then.

[SimeyTheLimey]

Originally posted by angaq0k:
Thank God!

It was just a misunderstanding!!!!!

No, not just a misunderstanding. Given the training all soldiers receive, those soldiers had to have known what they were doing was illegal. Even if they thought they were under direct orders to do it, they were obligated by law not to do it. That they did what they did was unforgivable, and criminal. Whether they misunderstood or not isn't any defense.

It does, however, go to the question of whether or not they were ordered to do it. The answer appears to be no, they weren't. That doesn't completely let the command off the hook. The command is responsible to make sure this kind of thing doesn't happen. But they aren't criminally culpable, and that is an important distinction.

But again, this merely confirms what we already knew.

[CreepingDeth]

Originally posted by SimeyTheLimey:
No, not just a misunderstanding. Given the training all soldiers receive, those soldiers had to have known what they were doing was illegal. Even if they thought they were under direct orders to do it, they were obligated by law not to do it. That they did what they did was unforgivable, and criminal. Whether they misunderstood or not isn't any defense.

It does, however, go to the question of whether or not they were ordered to do it. The answer appears to be no, they weren't. That doesn't completely let the command off the hook. The command is responsible to make sure this kind of thing doesn't happen. But they aren't criminally culpable, and that is an important distinction.

But again, this merely confirms what we already knew.

[SimeyTheLimey]

I don't get the significance of the picture. Isn't that a Merkava?

[CreepingDeth]

I couldn't find a *SMACKDOWN* picture, so OWNED will do.
Your post defeated the under orders thing.
Yes, I believe that is an Israeli tank. The N3 thing on the front is Hebrew letter, but it looks like an N.

[BlackGriffen]

Right, nothing new here, except the allegation that the doctors were actively in on it, too:

U.S. military doctors working in Iraq collaborated with interrogators in the abuse of prisoners at Abu Ghraib prison outside Baghdad, an article in the British medical journal The Lancet said on Friday.

A U.S. military spokesman said the article was inaccurate, and a spokesman for an American physicians group said that if the accusations are true, the doctors and other medical personnel should stand trial.

The Lancet report by University of Minnesota professor Steven Miles suggested that some doctors falsified death certificates to cover up killings and hid evidence of beatings, and one detainee who collapsed after a beating was revived by medics so that the abuse could continue.

"Army officials stated that a physician and a psychiatrist helped design, approve and monitor interrogations at Abu Ghraib," Miles wrote, citing U.S. congressional hearings, sworn statements of detainees and soldiers, medical journal accounts and aid agency information.
[...]
"If the facts are as they have been reported, with physicians and medics participating essentially in torture of prisoners ... these are the kinds of abuses that we properly prosecuted and associate, I'm sorry to say, with the actions of medical personnel during the Third Reich," said Robert Musil of the group Physicians for Social Responsibility.
[...]
The American Medical Association, when asked for comment on the report, said it supported a World Medical Association statement denouncing any physician participation in torture "for any reason."
[...]

BlackGriffen

[angaq0k]

Originally posted by BlackGriffen:
Right, nothing new here, except the allegation that the doctors were actively in on it, too:

BlackGriffen

It is just a coincidence, I'm sure!


We should care more about jeeps being squashed by tanks. It's more "manly". More fun. More distracting. It is entertaining. It makes denial fun. It is safe, since American soldiers are in the tank, not in the jeep, so it looks "cool". It looks strong!

[BlackGriffen]

More on the leadership failures:

MANNHEIM, Germany - The actual abuses at Abu Ghraib may have been the work of a few GIs, but excerpts of a report obtained exclusively by NBC News found failures of leadership from the prison to the Pentagon and said many must share some of the blame.

The report was commissioned by the Pentagon and authored by former Secretary of Defense James Schlesinger. It specifically says Brig. Gen. Janis Karpinski, head of the MPs at the prison — who called herself a scapegoat who got little or no support from her higher-ups and who was already relieved of her command — and Col. Thomas Pappas of Military Intelligence at the prison — who has refused to comment — both knew or ought to have known what was going on.
[...]
The report does not say that, but it does show flaws in training and staffing at Abu Ghraib.

Defense attorneys argued at a pre-trial hearing in Germany Monday that this report and others will prove that what happened at Abu Ghraib was known long before that night in November when the now infamous pictures were taken.

BlackGriffen