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andi*pandi · Aug 23, 2004, 02:46 PM

http://money.cnn.com/2004/08/23/news...ex.htm?cnn=yes

I never heard of this before today, or thought there was a problem, but heck, they've changed the rules. And I don't think for the better.

I'm not salaried, I get an hourly wage. Currently my employer is on a "no overtime unless it's preapproved" policy, meaning, they aren't forcing me to work overtime, and I'm not working it unless I A) have to; and b) want to. So I may as well be salaried, except usually salaried folks are higher paid.

This new law concerns me because if I worked for another less scrupulous company, as a "professional" could they force me to work overtime and not pay me? What is with this job description determining overtime thing?

Doesn't it make more sense to just base it on hourly vs salaried?

Dr.HermanG. · Aug 23, 2004, 02:52 PM

Americans are such wimps when it comes to work.

"Oh no, I might have to work .2349569059^23 more minutes this week if I'm paid a salary."

MacNStein · Aug 23, 2004, 02:56 PM

Originally posted by andi*pandi:
http://money.cnn.com/2004/08/23/news...ex.htm?cnn=yes

I never heard of this before today, or thought there was a problem, but heck, they've changed the rules. And I don't think for the better.

I'm not salaried, I get an hourly wage. Currently my employer is on a "no overtime unless it's preapproved" policy, meaning, they aren't forcing me to work overtime, and I'm not working it unless I A) have to; and b) want to. So I may as well be salaried, except usually salaried folks are higher paid.

This new law concerns me because if I worked for another less scrupulous company, as a "professional" could they force me to work overtime and not pay me? What is with this job description determining overtime thing?

Doesn't it make more sense to just base it on hourly vs salaried?

"Another factor that could dampen the impact of the new regs is state law. Some 18 states, including California and Illinois, have separate overtime laws that trump federal law, according to Amy Bess, an employment law partner at Sonnenschein Nath & Rosenthal in Washington, D.C."

So, why even have a Federal law?

voodoo · Aug 23, 2004, 02:57 PM

In socially civilized countries the overtime is payed on hourly basis, even if you get monthly salaries for your daytime (9 to 5) work. Good system.

MacNStein · Aug 23, 2004, 03:00 PM

Originally posted by voodoo:
In socially civilized countries the overtime is payed on hourly basis, even if you get monthly salaries for your daytime (9 to 5) work. Good system.

Then why are they in such an economically inferior position?

andi*pandi · Aug 23, 2004, 03:03 PM

If I'm paid a salary and get all the benefits therein (extra vacation, flexible hours, more independence) then sign me up for salary. It's not like I'm getting paid for overtime anyhow.

However I'm concerned for others who don't have a decent boss like me. I've known several folks who work retail who've been told they HAVE to stay an extra hour or so, but because the boss isn't allowed to PAY overtime, the time sheets get cooked and it goes unpaid. And at $6/hr, I'd say every hour worked better damn well be paid for.

Dr G, are you saying that bosses don't have to pay their employees for time worked?

Macnstein, I was wondering that about the states too. Especially wondering what the laws are in each state.

voodoo · Aug 23, 2004, 03:04 PM

Originally posted by MacNStein:
Then why are they in such an economically inferior position?

<looks at living standards in Europe, looks at the same in the U.S.>

You were saying?

MacNStein · Aug 23, 2004, 03:06 PM

Originally posted by voodoo:
<looks at living standards in Europe, looks at the same in the U.S.>

You were saying?

<looks at *my* standard of living compared to almost *anyone* in Europe>

You were saying?

Dr.HermanG. · Aug 23, 2004, 03:07 PM

You're right, I would never live in Europe due to inferior living standards <case closed>

lil'babykitten · Aug 23, 2004, 03:07 PM

Originally posted by MacNStein:
<looks at *my* standard of living compared to almost *anyone* in Europe>

You were saying?

And how do you rate your standard of living? By the number of women in your bed?

voodoo · Aug 23, 2004, 03:09 PM

Originally posted by MacNStein:
<looks at *my* standard of living compared to almost *anyone* in Europe>

You were saying?

I think you answered your own question there!

MacNStein · Aug 23, 2004, 03:10 PM

Originally posted by voodoo:
I think you answered your own question there!

Yep, poor European bastards...

Logic · Aug 23, 2004, 03:10 PM

Originally posted by MacNStein:
<looks at *my* standard of living compared to almost *anyone* in Europe>

You were saying?

So tell me. In what way is it better?

MacNStein · Aug 23, 2004, 03:11 PM

Originally posted by lil'babykitten:
And how do you rate your standard of living? By the number of women in your bed?

hahaha. Cute.

No, by how much I can do with what $ I earn.

voodoo · Aug 23, 2004, 03:13 PM

Originally posted by MacNStein:
Yep, poor European bastards... :cry:

yes yes it is terrible over here.

He doesn't get it :D

lil'babykitten · Aug 23, 2004, 03:13 PM

Originally posted by MacNStein:
hahaha. Cute.

No, by how much I can do with what $ I earn.

And you know you have it better because...?

lil'babykitten · Aug 23, 2004, 03:15 PM

Originally posted by voodoo:
He doesn't get it

LMAO

MacNStein · Aug 23, 2004, 03:15 PM

Originally posted by lil'babykitten:
And you know you have it better because...?

... I have friends who live in various parts of Europe, who earn similar amounts, and have less buying power.

lil'babykitten · Aug 23, 2004, 03:17 PM

Originally posted by MacNStein:
... I have friends who live in various parts of Europe, who earn similar amounts, and have less buying power.

ya huh.

MacNStein · Aug 23, 2004, 03:17 PM

Originally posted by voodoo:
He doesn't get it

and neither do you poor sots.

andi*pandi · Aug 23, 2004, 03:18 PM

but do they get paid for their overtime? What is a work week over there? And the notorious 8 weeks of vacation all you Europeans get....

Bastards.

MacNStein · Aug 23, 2004, 03:19 PM

Originally posted by lil'babykitten:
ya huh.

Truth hurts.

Logic · Aug 23, 2004, 03:20 PM

Still waiting for your answer MacNStein..........

voodoo · Aug 23, 2004, 03:21 PM

Originally posted by andi*pandi:
but do they get paid for their overtime? What is a work week over there? And the notorious 8 weeks of vacation all you Europeans get.... Bastards.

Well minimum wage differs between countries but it is rarely less than �7 per hour. That is like McDonald's or something of that caliber.

In Norway it is around �9 per hour.

MacNStein · Aug 23, 2004, 03:22 PM

Originally posted by Logic:
Still waiting for your answer MacNStein..........

answered it already.

"No, by how much I can do with what $ I earn."

Millennium · Aug 23, 2004, 03:22 PM

I'll tell you, I wouldn't mind getting the vacation time said to exist in Europe. At the same time, I can't help but wonder who has really progressed more. Each side has its tradeoffs.

lil'babykitten · Aug 23, 2004, 03:22 PM

Originally posted by MacNStein:
Truth hurts.

Perhaps. But I haven't come across any in your posts in this thread.

MacNStein · Aug 23, 2004, 03:23 PM

Originally posted by Millennium:
I'll tell you, I wouldn't mind getting the vacation time said to exist in Europe.

Umm... I already get 16 weeks.

voodoo · Aug 23, 2004, 03:23 PM

Originally posted by Millennium:
I'll tell you, I wouldn't mind getting the vacation time said to exist in Europe. At the same time, I can't help but wonder who has really progressed more. Each side has its tradeoffs.

8 weeks is not standard in Europe for summer vacation I fear. So stories of that are exaggerated. 4 weeks is standard.

Logic · Aug 23, 2004, 03:24 PM

Originally posted by MacNStein:
answered it already.

"No, by how much I can do with what $ I earn."

Do you base that on perception or on facts?

And is that the only way of judging quality of life? That is how much money you can spend?

MacNStein · Aug 23, 2004, 03:25 PM

Originally posted by lil'babykitten:
Perhaps. But I haven't come across any in your posts in this thread.

So, you're saying things cost less in Europe?

*waits*

Logic · Aug 23, 2004, 03:25 PM

Originally posted by voodoo:
8 weeks is not standard in Europe for summer vacation I fear. So stories of that are exaggerated. 4 weeks is standard.

Not counting "rau�a daga"(whatever that is called in English).

macvillage.net · Aug 23, 2004, 03:26 PM

Originally posted by andi*pandi:

This new law concerns me because if I worked for another less scrupulous company, as a "professional" could they force me to work overtime and not pay me? What is with this job description determining overtime thing?

That was the intent.

It's good for business. But bad for ppl.

I know quite a few who make their money really on overtime.

Work 40 hours, and it doesn't pay the bills. Work 50-60/week... and it really racks up. That extra effort makes it doable to take the job.

Originally posted by MacNStein:
"Another factor that could dampen the impact of the new regs is state law. Some 18 states, including California and Illinois, have separate overtime laws that trump federal law, according to Amy Bess, an employment law partner at Sonnenschein Nath & Rosenthal in Washington, D.C."

So, why even have a Federal law?

Federal triumphs State.

It's only a matter of time before that's challenged. Espeially when money is involved.

Certain exceptions exist: such as Minimum wage, where states are authorized to establish their own (provided they exceed federal minimum). Education (they can expand upon federal requirements). And discrimination (they can extend the set of protected classes, as virtually all do).

Originally posted by Dr.HermanG.:
You're right, I would never live in Europe due to inferior living standards <case closed>

I'd love to see evidence of 'inverior living standards'.

Lower disease transmission rates (less likely to get something like TB in europe than here in the US where it's more prevelent). Better healthcare (helps #1), better social services, better public transportation.

Living in Europe is much more efficient. Your taxed a bit more most of the time, but the benefits you get save quite a bit. To buy the same services here in the US, you pay much more. Since the government is doing it near cost... while here in the US, your paying for a profit margin a company is making to serve you.

In all ways Europe is >= America in terms of living standards. In quite a few places >.

If your 65+ years old it's drastic.

MacNStein · Aug 23, 2004, 03:26 PM

Originally posted by Logic:
Do you base that on perception or on facts?

And is that the only way of judging quality of life? That is how much money you can spend?

I judge quality of life this way: money I have available + free time = quality

lil'babykitten · Aug 23, 2004, 03:26 PM

Originally posted by Logic:
And is that the only way of judging quality of life? That is how much money you can spend?

It would appear that that is the American Way�

Logic · Aug 23, 2004, 03:27 PM

Originally posted by lil'babykitten:
It would appear that that is the American Way�

Yup, seems that way by MacNSteins post above.

Dakar · Aug 23, 2004, 03:28 PM

Originally posted by MacNStein:
Then why are they in such an economically inferior position?

Because companies there play by the rules?

Logic · Aug 23, 2004, 03:29 PM

Originally posted by MacNStein:
I judge quality of life this way: money I have available + free time = quality

So things like the chance of getting an education, access to healthcare and cost of healthcare, crime rates, overall safety etc etc have nothing to do with quality of life? Interesting........

voodoo · Aug 23, 2004, 03:29 PM

Originally posted by MacNStein:
So, you're saying things cost less in Europe?

*waits*

Depends where you are in Europe. It isn't 1 country you know. Like If you live in Hawaii or San Fransisco you're not going to get as much for you money as when you live in uh some backwater state. Cheaper real estate etc.

Greece, Spain, Italy et al are the cheapest countries in Europe while Norway, Iceland are the most expensive. You are asking so leading and rhetorical questions.

macvillage.net · Aug 23, 2004, 03:34 PM

MOney isn't even = value.

I could have 1000 yen in my pocket... am I rich?

Economies aren't to scale. So even if you make less in Europe, and pay more taxes...

your living expenses, and life expenses are much less. And there's also more of a guarantee on them.

So really you end up with less to worry about (more free time), and more of the money you make is spending money... rather than paying for companies to make a profit off of services that could be provided without that steep profit margin.

MacNStein · Aug 23, 2004, 03:38 PM

Originally posted by Logic:
So things like the chance of getting an education, access to healthcare and cost of healthcare, crime rates, overall safety etc etc have nothing to do with quality of life? Interesting........

Let's see... my job provides awesome healthcare (no cost presriptions, no cost Dr. visits, no cost anything). I have a beautiful log home in the middle of a forest (no neighbors). Great German transportation (I love my M3). All the spending cash I could really want. And get 16 weeks off /yr. So, yeah, I like my quality of life.

Logic · Aug 23, 2004, 03:42 PM

Originally posted by MacNStein:
Let's see... my job provides awesome healthcare (no cost presriptions, no cost Dr. visits, no cost anything). I have a beautiful log home in the middle of a forest (no neighbors). Great German transportation (I love my M3). All the spending cash I could really want. And get 16 weeks off /yr. So, yeah, I like my quality of life.

So you are basically comparing your own lifestyle to that of the whole of Europe. OK, I get it. So can I now compare my father lifestyle to your and say that he has it much better and therefore Iceland has a higher quality of life than America has?

LoganCharles · Aug 23, 2004, 03:45 PM

At least here in the States you can buy a house and actually call it your own. Hell with mortgage rates as low as they are you can damn well buy a house on $25,000 a year. My parents visited England last summer and they said it was nuts how socialized things are. You literally have to contact the government if your toliet is clogged.

lil'babykitten · Aug 23, 2004, 03:48 PM

Originally posted by LoganCharles:
You literally have to contact the government if your toliet is clogged.

Where's that flashing BS gif?

LoganCharles · Aug 23, 2004, 03:48 PM

Originally posted by lil'babykitten:
It would appear that that is the American Way�

That really bothers you doesn't it?

I love America.

Logic · Aug 23, 2004, 03:49 PM

Originally posted by LoganCharles:
That really bothers you doesn't it?

I love America.

Good for you. But that doesn't mean that everyone thinks that's the way to go. But you wouldn't understand that would you?

lil'babykitten · Aug 23, 2004, 03:52 PM

Originally posted by LoganCharles:
That really bothers you doesn't it?

Not at all. It does amuse me though.

Originally posted by LoganCharles:
I love America.

Good for you. Here, have a flag.

MacNStein · Aug 23, 2004, 03:52 PM

Originally posted by Logic:
But you wouldn't understand that would you?

Same could be said about you.

MacNStein · Aug 23, 2004, 03:53 PM

Originally posted by Logic:
So can I now compare my father lifestyle to your and say that he has it much better and therefore Iceland has a higher quality of life than America has?

You could, but I doubt it's better.

Logic · Aug 23, 2004, 03:54 PM

Originally posted by andi*pandi:
but do they get paid for their overtime? What is a work week over there? And the notorious 8 weeks of vacation all you Europeans get.... Bastards.

Here in Scandinavia there are basically two systems for overtime work. Either you get payed per hour(how much depending on what time the overtime work is) or the time you work overtime is payed in vacationdays. That's the way it works where I'm currently working. Meaning that if I work more than my 40 hours a week I'm able to take that time out in vacation when I want to.

And like Voodoo said, the vacation is 4 weeks(though some have more due to union contracts).