[eklipse]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/3581514.stm

France's top administrative court has given a Lebanese TV channel until 1 October to put behind it charges of anti-Semitism or face a broadcast ban.

Al-Manar TV stands to lose its right to beam programmes into France if it does not sign up to France's code of conduct for media by that date.

It caused a storm last October by showing a drama which depicted a Zionist plot to take over the world.

A lawyer for the channel said it agreed the drama had been "inadmissible".

France has seen a rise in anti-Semitic attacks in recent years, linked by many commentators to unrest in the Middle East.

Arabic satellite TV is widely watched in urban areas where most of the country's five-million-strong Muslim community are concentrated.

...

http://www.aljazeera.com/cgi-bin/new...ervice_id=3074

...

The request comes at a time of mounting tension between Israel and France. Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon recently claimed that France is engulfed in "the wildest anti-Semitism" and urging Jews to leave.


Lebanon's Foreign Ministry defended Al-Manar on Friday, saying that the station's programs "condemn the policies of Israeli governments and are not by any means racist or critical of the Jewish faith or people."

...

Lebanon accused the French authorities have taken "a political role rather than a judicial" stance in the case against al-Manar.

"The bias by some French audiovisual outlets is clear since it is lenient toward French stations that broadcast anti-Islamic and anti-Arab programs," the Foreign Ministry statement said.

Also Arab governments have blamed France of being anti-Islamic when it banned schoolgirls' wearing Islamic head scarves at school.

Lebanon calls for the distinction between anti-Zionism and anti-Semitism.

"The Zionist ideology and practices are condemned because they are the basis of the Arab-Israeli conflict and the source of the tragedy and injustice the Palestinian people are subjected to," the Foreign Ministry statement said.

...

I'm not sure, I think both sides make valid points. The program was obviously inflammatory, but, is the response from the French authorities even-handed or just bowing to Israeli political pressure?


Discuss™!

[Logic]

So when are the French going to ban the stations that show movies/shows/etc where Arabs and Muslims are shown as terrorists? Or is that different somehow?

[lil'babykitten]

Originally posted by eklipse:
I think both sides make valid points.

I agree. But let's see the French taking similar action with regard to anti-Arab or anti-Islamic programs. Otherwise they risk being hypocritical...

[ebuddy]

I don't know about Al Manar, but the following statement by the Foreign Ministry is debateable; "The Zionist ideology and practices are condemned because they are the basis of the Arab-Israeli conflict and the source of the tragedy and injustice the Palestinian people are subjected to," the Foreign Ministry statement said.

This is a smidgen biased I believe as both are responsible for propogating violence.

[Zimphire]

Originally posted by Logic:
So when are the French going to ban the stations that show movies/shows/etc where Arabs and Muslims are shown as terrorists? Or is that different somehow?

Maybe because most terrorists around today are indeed Muslim based? That isn't stretching the truth.

Not the same thing as a zionist conspiracy to take over the world.

[Logic]

Originally posted by Zimphire:
Maybe because most terrorists around today are indeed Muslim based? That isn't stretching the truth.

Not the same thing as a zionist conspiracy to take over the world.

Care to back that up?

[macvillage.net]

France has a certain obligation to prosecute. As it should. I'm more concerned about it not being even handed against all, rather than against this case. I personally think France should prosecute, and should have been doing so. It's the right thing to do. But I don't think they should ignore other acts of racism until it hits the international spotlight.

The US is no more innocent in this either. It does the same thing. Then we have a high profile incident, and it goes back to days of old for a while.

[Zimphire]

Originally posted by Logic:
Care to back that up?

Care to back what up? Most terrorism today is backed by a distorted view of Islam?

[Zimphire]

Originally posted by macvillage.net:
The US is no more innocent in this either. It does the same thing. Then we have a high profile incident, and it goes back to days of old for a while.

Indeed. This isn't a France problem. This is a problem with humanity.

[Logic]

Originally posted by Zimphire:
Care to back what up? Most terrorism today is backed by a distorted view of Islam?

Yes, exactly. Could you back that up?

[macvillage.net]

Originally posted by Zimphire:
Care to back what up? Most terrorism today is backed by a distorted view of Islam?

This is Zimphire speak for:

What I don't like is backed by distored view of Islam.

What I like (as evil and immoral as it may be) isn't.

[PacHead]

Originally posted by Logic:
Yes, exactly. Could you back that up?

Does he care to back that up ? I sure would, If I were him, seeing at it has been backed up countless times before, and it is common knowledge.

Islamopigfascist terrorists have been blowing themselves up all across the globe in what can best be described as an epidemic. Just about anywhere you find muslims in conflict, you will find islamic terrorists blowing their worthless bodies up, killing civilians, taking hostages, beheading people etc.

Do you even get the news up there in Iceland ? Hardly a day goes by without some islamo terrorist killing somebody, somewhere in the world.

Some people might call them Jihadists, I call them by their proper name, cowardly, Islamopigfascists.

GOOGLE NEWS
"Islamic terrorist" = 446
"Christian terrorist" = 2

What's next ? Is logic going to ask people to back up that the earth is round ?

[phoenixboy70]

Originally posted by PacHead:
Some people might call them Jihadists, I call them by their proper name, cowardly, Islamopigfascists.

i would call it "man" doing "evil". MAN has always done "evil" things. religion can't do such a thing.

/i've always wanted to do this...ahhh...how easy.

[PacHead]

Originally posted by phoenixboy70:
i would call it "man" doing "evil". MAN has always done "evil" things. religion can't do such a thing.

And I would call it a screwed up religion/ideology doing such things. In WW2 we had the nazis, today we have islamopigpfascist terrorists, which share an equally warped and perverted ideology.

[Zimphire]

Originally posted by Logic:
Yes, exactly. Could you back that up?

You are kidding right? Take a look at the last 20 terrorist actions that have happened in this world. Most is extreme islam backed.

[Zimphire]

Originally posted by PacHead:
seeing at it has been backed up countless times before, and it is common knowledge.

That is why I was amazed he was acting like I was making it up.

[Logic]

Originally posted by Zimphire:
You are kidding right? Take a look at the last 20 terrorist actions that have happened in this world. Most is extreme islam backed.

Didn't think so. But thanks for playing. The exit is there : points :

[macvillage.net]

Originally posted by Zimphire:
You are kidding right? Take a look at the last 20 terrorist actions that have happened in this world. Most is extreme islam backed.

If I look at a Christian newspaper that's what I would see.

But if I look at something completely objective, or assemble it from worldwide new sources including athiest or other sources... I'd have a very different picture.

[Zimphire]

Originally posted by Logic:
Didn't think so. But thanks for playing. The exit is there : points :

LAWL

Tell me Logic. What is the biggest terrorist organization we know about? And what is their base religion?

[Taliesin]

Originally posted by Zimphire:
You are kidding right? Take a look at the last 20 terrorist actions that have happened in this world. Most is extreme islam backed.

Actually you are the one kidding, the last 20 terrorist actions were islam-backed? That comes out that way only because of your bias and what you and the western media likes to call terrorist-attacks. From the islamic world's point of view, every western bomb or rocket and every western tank-shell and every uranium-treated-bullet fired onto civilians in islamic countries are terrorist actions, which are christian-jewish or atheist-backed, which come mostly from the lovable USA and its local version Israel.

If I would count all these terrorist acts together, I would come to more than 1,000 terrorist actions commited by the USA and Israel in the time-frame you counted 20 islam-backed terrorist actions.

In the Quran, the islamic equivalent to Jesus (Jesus was/is God's word, the Quran is God's word), there is a verse that condemns the killing of innocents, by saying that if you kill one innocent human with full intent (in contrast to an accident), it's like you have killed whole humanity.

The only exception to that verse is in the case of war-time, in the case the enemy is killing civilians. For that case there are two options allowed in the Quran: Option 1 is more suggested and favoured in the Quran, the second option is merely allowed but not prescripted:

Option 1: Forgive your enemy and let it be in the assurance that God will punish the evil-doers and show patience regarding the attacks on your civilians.

Option 2: Retaliate in kind and in the same measure, and don't exceed the line of balance, one killed woman for one killed woman, one killed child for one killed child, one elderly for one elderly, etc..

The from the west socalled "moderate" muslims favour the option 1, while the from the west socalled "radical" or "fanatical" muslims favour option 2. Both are allowed by the Quran, though option 1 is prefered by the Quran.

Should the socalled radical muslims ever excceed the line of balance by killing more civilians than the enemy, then they would act criminally and would rightly be called terrorists, otherwise not. As far as I can see there are no terrorists in Palestine, except the israelic army and secret agencies.

Taliesin

[Zimphire]

I don't even know why I bother sometimes with some of you.

You live in a bizarro world. Good is bad. Bad is good.

Yes, American and Israel are terrorists!!! 24/7

Constantly. FOREVER!

The Great Satan! We deserve it all!

Get a grip on reality.

[Taliesin]

Originally posted by Zimphire:
LAWL

Tell me Taliesin. What is the biggest terrorist organization we know about? And what is their base religion?

Difficult, it's a close race, is it the american pentagon, including its military secret agency and its regular and paramilitary-troops, espescially the airforce, or is it the CIA? I really can't say it, but both are america-based, christian- or atheistic-based.

Israel's armies and secret-agencies are a runner-up in that category.

Taliesin

[Zimphire]

Originally posted by Taliesin:
Difficult, it's a close race, is it the american pentagon, including its military secret agency and its regular and paramilitary-troops, espescially the airforce, or is it the CIA? I really can't say it, but both are america-based, christian- or atheistic-based.

Israel's armies and secret-agencies are a runner-up in that category.

Taliesin

Only in your mind Taliesin. You also think Palestine is going to overthrow Israel too.

[lil'babykitten]

Originally posted by Zimphire:
What is the biggest terrorist organization we know about?

The CIA?

[Logic]

Originally posted by Zimphire:
LAWL

Tell me Logic. What is the biggest terrorist organization we know about? And what is their base religion?

How many work for the CIA? The IOF?

[Logic]

Originally posted by Taliesin:
Actually you are the one kidding, the last 20 terrorist actions were islam-backed? That comes out that way only because of your bias and what you and the western media likes to call terrorist-attacks. From the islamic world's point of view, every western bomb or rocket and every western tank-shell and every uranium-treated-bullet fired onto civilians in islamic countries are terrorist actions, which are christian-jewish or atheist-backed, which come mostly from the lovable USA and its local version Israel.

If I would count all these terrorist acts together, I would come to more than 1,000 terrorist actions commited by the USA and Israel in the time-frame you counted 20 islam-backed terrorist actions.

In the Quran, the islamic equivalent to Jesus (Jesus was/is God's word, the Quran is God's word), there is a verse that condemns the killing of innocents, by saying that if you kill one innocent human with full intent (in contrast to an accident), it's like you have killed whole humanity.

The only exception to that verse is in the case of war-time, in the case the enemy is killing civilians. For that case there are two options allowed in the Quran: Option 1 is more suggested and favoured in the Quran, the second option is merely allowed but not prescripted:

Option 1: Forgive your enemy and let it be in the assurance that God will punish the evil-doers and show patience regarding the attacks on your civilians.

Option 2: Retaliate in kind and in the same measure, and don't exceed the line of balance, one killed woman for one killed woman, one killed child for one killed child, one elderly for one elderly, etc..

The from the west socalled "moderate" muslims favour the option 1, while the from the west socalled "radical" or "fanatical" muslims favour option 2. Both are allowed by the Quran, though option 1 is prefered by the Quran.

Should the socalled radical muslims ever excceed the line of balance by killing more civilians than the enemy, then they would act criminally and would rightly be called terrorists, otherwise not. As far as I can see there are no terrorists in Palestine, except the israelic army and secret agencies.

Taliesin

[dreilly1]

Originally posted by Taliesin:
Actually you are the one kidding, the last 20 terrorist actions were islam-backed? That comes out that way only because of your bias and what you and the western media likes to call terrorist-attacks. From the islamic world's point of view, every western bomb or rocket and every western tank-shell and every uranium-treated-bullet fired onto civilians in islamic countries are terrorist actions, which are christian-jewish or atheist-backed, which come mostly from the lovable USA and its local version Israel.

...

In the Quran, the islamic equivalent to Jesus (Jesus was/is God's word, the Quran is God's word), there is a verse that condemns the killing of innocents, by saying that if you kill one innocent human with full intent (in contrast to an accident), it's like you have killed whole humanity.

Taliesin

Ok, I'll bite. Are you saying that there was intent behind every civilian that has been killed in Iraq and Afghanistan by US and coalition forces? That every military action in the region is intended to drive terror into the Islamic population? That seems just as absurd to me as Zimph's notion that most terrorists around the world are Muslim does to you.

(Note that I left Israel and Palestine out of that comparison on purpose. I'm beginning think the tactics on both sides are meant to drive terror into their opposition...)

[Logic]

http://www.informationclearinghouse....rticle5827.htm

[Wiskedjak]

Originally posted by Zimphire:
Tell me Logic. What is the biggest terrorist organization we know about? And what is their base religion?

Al Qaeda is probably the biggest terrorist organization in the world. The Israeli government is probably the most organized and most powerful terrorist organization in the world, having killed far more civilians than Al Qaeda. The base religion of both will be Power and Control.

[eklipse]

Originally posted by ebuddy:
This is a smidgen biased I believe as both are responsible for propogating violence.

Both may well be responsible for propagating the violence but Zionism is uniquely responsible for instigating the conflict in the first place.

[macvillage.net]

Originally posted by lil'babykitten:
The CIA?

The CIA actually did invent the modern car bomb. Many inovations used today by terrorists were pioneered by the CIA.

Back when America thought it was a brilliant idea to train indigious forces to use terrorist tactics to take down governments.

That's why occasionally when showing video of terrorist training camps you see a video with what looks like a US soldier's uniform. Because it is. It's old stockpile video that occasionally makes the cut in documentaries and other places where they need lots of training video.

Also lead to __many__ civilians dying in South America (in particular columbia).

[eklipse]

Originally posted by Taliesin:
Actually you are the one kidding, the last 20 terrorist actions were islam-backed? That comes out that way only because of your bias and what you and the western media likes to call terrorist-attacks. From the islamic world's point of view, every western bomb or rocket and every western tank-shell and every uranium-treated-bullet fired onto civilians in islamic countries are terrorist actions, which are christian-jewish or atheist-backed, which come mostly from the lovable USA and its local version Israel.

If I would count all these terrorist acts together, I would come to more than 1,000 terrorist actions commited by the USA and Israel in the time-frame you counted 20 islam-backed terrorist actions.

Well said.

[Taliesin]

Originally posted by dreilly1:
Ok, I'll bite. Are you saying that there was intent behind every civilian that has been killed in Iraq and Afghanistan by US and coalition forces? That every military action in the region is intended to drive terror into the Islamic population? That seems just as absurd to me as Zimph's notion that most terrorists around the world are Muslim does to you.

(Note that I left Israel and Palestine out of that comparison on purpose. I'm beginning think the tactics on both sides are meant to drive terror into their opposition...)

Ok, I'll bite, too ;-). Yes, the killing of civilians in a war can be seen as intentionally, espescially if an army is invading another country. Dropping bombs from planes onto civilian buildings and claiming to have targeted that pack of fighters while ignoring the civilians around is pretty hypocritical.

But and that is the important thing, it's not necessary to look if the US-army killed those civilians intentionally, as they are the invading army, and as such are responsible for every civilian they kill, and because noone told them to invade that country in the first place.

I can hear the justifications: "Oh, but that Saddam Hussein was such a cruel dictator, he had WMD's, he kills his own people, some might had to do something, we, the US had to do something!"

Nonsense, Saddam Hussein and his Baath-regime were installed by the US and supported for decades, even with WMD's, even when the whole world knew what cruel dictator he was, even when he was using that WMD's against Iran and his own people, the supplies kept on coming.

Sure, Saddam was a pain in the ass to his own people, but that was the business of them to dethrone him, and not US's business. The sanctions should never have been imposed on Iraq, even if it means that Iraq could have gained the atomic-bomb. To possess the atomic bomb wouldn't have saved Saddam Hussein from his own people, they would have toppled him no matter what a few years later. What has kept Saddam Hussein so long in power was the financial and military and diplomatic US-support. Without that it was only a matter of time when he would have been dethroned.

Taliesin

[RonnieoftheRose]

To Logic and Kitten, the reason behind the action is because the channel made references to the Protocols of the Elders of Zion which was a fraud document created by the Tsars and then used by the Bolsheviks and Nazis. Sadly many conspiracy theorists and Islamic fundamentalists still think this document is true when it has been proven not only false but also in conflict with Judaism and Jewish culture.

Jews don't rule the world and don't want to. This whole racist ******** came out of general anger by Europeans 100 and more years ago who saw successful Jewish lawyers, doctors, etc. Nowadays these positions are filled up with Indians and Pakistanis. Imagine some racist started spreading a rumor that South Asians want to rule the world. That's what happened. If that Lebanese channel is broadcasting such racism and falsity it should be given an ultimatum. Full stop. Period.

[Wiskedjak]

Originally posted by RonnieoftheRose:
Jews don't rule the world and don't want to.

I don't think Jews rule the world. I do think that some people in power are using the Jewish religion and sympathy resulting from the Holocaust as an excuse to rule their particular corner of the world. Likewise, I think other people use Christianity (read: ANY Western politician) and Islam (Al Qaeda, et al) for their own political/material gain.

[Zimphire]

Originally posted by Logic:
How many work for the CIA? The IOF?

[PacHead]

Welcome to the world of logic, talsien, eklipse, militant kitten, wisejack etc.

Welcome to the "Planet of the Apes".

Now we know what the astronauts truly felt when they found out they were stranded on the Planet of the Apes, or perhaps this is just an episode of the Twilight Zone.. Everything is 180 degrees the opposite of what it was before. Good = Bad, Bad = Good, USA = bad, terrorists = Good.

Carry on.

[Zimphire]

Originally posted by PacHead:
Apes

[macvillage.net]

Originally posted by PacHead:
Welcome to the world of logic, talsien, eklipse, militant kitten, wisejack etc.

Welcome to the "Planet of the Apes".

Now we know what the astronauts truly felt when they found out they were stranded on the Planet of the Apes, or perhaps this is just an episode of the Twilight Zone.. Everything is 180 degrees the opposite of what it was before. Good = Bad, Bad = Good, USA = bad, terrorists = Good.

Carry on.

Coming from somone who supports a governments 'right' to attack innocent civilians.

[Taliesin]

Originally posted by PacHead:
... USA = bad, terrorists = Good.

Carry on.

Hello, PackedHead,

USA = bad, terrorists= Good? You are contradicting yourself, I think you really mean USA = terrorists.

Keep on.

Taliesin

[Logic]

Originally posted by Taliesin:
Hello, PackedHead,

USA = bad, terrorists= Good? You are contradicting yourself, I think you really mean USA = terrorists.

Keep on.

Taliesin

[eklipse]

Originally posted by PacHead:
Now we know what the astronauts truly felt when they found out they were stranded on the Planet of the Apes,.....

Planet of the Apes was just a movie - it didn't really happen......also, aliens didn't really blow up the White House - that was also just a movie.

Carry on.

[Zimphire]

Originally posted by eklipse:
Planet of the Apes was just a movie - it didn't really happen......also, aliens didn't really blow up the White House - that was also just a movie.

Carry on.

[lil'babykitten]

I believe that was a triple smackdown on packedhead.

[Zimphire]

Hardly. You guys get all excited over little.

[Taliesin]

Originally posted by PacHead:
Everything is 180 degrees the opposite of what it was before.

I must have overread that the first time. Priceless, just priceless.

Taliesin

[Wiskedjak]

Originally posted by Zimphire:
Hardly. You guys get all excited over little.

This, from the guy who's implying that Kerry is in kahoots with terrorists (a definite sign of scrambling, by the way)

[lil'babykitten]

Originally posted by Taliesin:
I must have overread that the first time. Priceless, just priceless.

Taliesin

[lil'babykitten]

Originally posted by Wiskedjak:
This, from the guy who's implying that Kerry is in kahoots with terrorists (a definite sign of scrambling, by the way)

He'll get there eventually. He's already changed it once tonight.

[vmarks]

Here's one for you to enjoy:

http://www.al-manhaj.com/Page1.cfm?ArticleID=146

Dig that crazy global Jihad.