[Dr.HermanG.]

http://prochoiceaction.org/campaign/stemcells_oregon

Take a look at who is sponsoring such a campaign. NARAL. As in "National Abortion Rights Action League"

Now tell me, what does stem cell research have to do with abortion rights and choice if we are only supposedly using stem lines from invitro embryos which might be destroyed anyways?

I will never support stem cell research so long as any pro-abortion group supports the idea in this manner.

[voodoo]

LAWL You'll never support Issue A while group X supports it!

<slaps the DrHermanG.>

Gooooooooooodgrief.

[Spheric Harlot]

Originally posted by Dr.HermanG.:
I will never support stem cell research so long as any pro-abortion group supports the idea in this manner.

That is probably the dumbest reasoning I've seen out of you so far.

You're also boycotting McDonald's, because I hear some pro-choice people eat there.

You're also boycotting Fox News, because al Qaeda members watch it too.

You also no longer fly, since terrorists use commercial aircraft, too.

And of course, you NEVER visit doctors or hospitals, because we all know what THEY have to do with abortion.

Right?

-s*

[Dr.HermanG.]

Originally posted by Spheric Harlot:
That is probably the dumbest reasoning I've seen out of you so far.

You're also boycotting McDonald's, because I hear some pro-choice people eat there.

You're also boycotting Fox News, because al Qaeda members watch it too.

You also no longer fly, since terrorists use commercial aircraft, too.

And of course, you NEVER visit doctors or hospitals, because we all know what THEY have to do with abortion.

Right?

-s*

Do you ever have anything useful to say?

[Dr.HermanG.]

Originally posted by voodoo:
LAWL You'll never support Issue A while group X supports it!

Why would a pro-abortion group support stem cell research if not to get stem cells and lines from aborted fetuses?

[voodoo]

Originally posted by Dr.HermanG.:
Why would a pro-abortion group support stem cell research if not to get stem cells and lines from aborted fetuses?

Who cares??!

You are against abortion and the abortion groups, no? Well then IGNORE them and their opinions and don't form YOUR opinions based on their.

If they are so evil they might just be playing reverse psychology to prevent stem cell research in the future. Who knows. Point being, who cares? Form your own opinions, and if you have to base them on the shoulders of others don't just adamantly take up the opposite position of the people you don't like or like what stand for. Your adversaries can work for you once in a while too!

[Dr.HermanG.]

I said in the thread title that this is a reason, not the reason.

I am highly suspicious of the motives behind stem cell research in the first place and when I see pro-abortion groups lining up to support it the dots don't take long for me to connect together.

[Spheric Harlot]

Originally posted by Dr.HermanG.:
Do you ever have anything useful to say?

I consider exposing your tripe for the senseless bullsh*t it is a "useful" activity.

[macvillage.net]

Originally posted by Spheric Harlot:
That is probably the dumbest reasoning I've seen out of you so far.

You're also boycotting McDonald's, because I hear some pro-choice people eat there.

You're also boycotting Fox News, because al Qaeda members watch it too.

You also no longer fly, since terrorists use commercial aircraft, too.

And of course, you NEVER visit doctors or hospitals, because we all know what THEY have to do with abortion.

Right?

-s*

There's a few good reasons not to use airplanes, fast food, fox news or hospitals.

[vmpaul]

Originally posted by Dr.HermanG.:


I am highly suspicious of the motives behind stem cell research in the first place and when I see pro-abortion groups lining up to support it the dots don't take long for me to connect together.

Motives being to find cures for millions of people suffering from debilitative diseases.

Yep, that IS suspicious...

[MindFad]

Well, that's retarded. I would expect no less from the good Dr., though.

[chris v]

"Yes! We need more Welfare-teen pregnancies, for more abortions, for more stem-cells, for more cosmetic surgery for more hollywood Ivory-Tower Liberels!"

-- signed, anyone to the left of Newt Gingrich.

[Secret__Police]

Originally posted by Dr.HermanG.:
Now tell me, what does stem cell research have to do with abortion rights and choice if we are only supposedly using stem lines from invitro embryos which might be destroyed anyways?

They really have very little to do we eachother. NARAL believe that both need to be supported and stem cell research needs to be advanced.

[Wiskedjak]

Originally posted by Dr.HermanG.:
I said in the thread title that this is a reason, not the reason.

I am highly suspicious of the motives behind stem cell research in the first place and when I see pro-abortion groups lining up to support it the dots don't take long for me to connect together.

Connecting the available dots, and connecting them in the correct order can result in two completely different pictures.

[angaq0k]

Originally posted by Dr.HermanG.:
Do you ever have anything useful to say?

ROFL

[deedar]

Originally posted by Dr.HermanG.:
http://prochoiceaction.org/campaign/stemcells_oregon

Take a look at who is sponsoring such a campaign. NARAL. As in "National Abortion Rights Action League"

Now tell me, what does stem cell research have to do with abortion rights and choice if we are only supposedly using stem lines from invitro embryos which might be destroyed anyways?

I will never support stem cell research so long as any pro-abortion group supports the idea in this manner.

Idiot.

[Wiskedjak]

Originally posted by Dr.HermanG.:
http://prochoiceaction.org/campaign/stemcells_oregon

Take a look at who is sponsoring such a campaign. NARAL. As in "National Abortion Rights Action League"

Now tell me, what does stem cell research have to do with abortion rights and choice if we are only supposedly using stem lines from invitro embryos which might be destroyed anyways?

I will never support stem cell research so long as any pro-abortion group supports the idea in this manner.

All I see at that site is the title "Ron Reagan Supports Stem Cell Research"

[lil'babykitten]

Will I receive a collective slap from you all if I say that our Herman friend here has a point?

[Wiskedjak]

Originally posted by lil'babykitten:
Will I receive a collective slap from you all if I say that our Herman friend here has a point?

One has to wonder why a pro-abortion group is supporting stem-cell research. However, that isn't a reason to oppose stem cell research. If that pro-abortion group is in turn supported by a group that would profit from harvesting stem cells, it would raise some alarms but still wouldn't be a reason to oppose stem cell research. Instead, it would point to the fact that there needs to be some very clear legislation to ensure that stem cell research is done appropriately. However, there are MANY possible reasons why a pro-abortion group would be interested in stem-cell research; the above is just ONE possibility.

Obviously there are some serious ethical concerns surrounding stem cell research. Fortunately, aborted fetuses are not the only source of stem cells.

[lil'babykitten]

Originally posted by Wiskedjak:
One has to wonder why a pro-abortion group is supporting stem-cell research. However, that isn't a reason to oppose stem cell research. If that pro-abortion group is in turn supported by a group that would profit from harvesting stem cells, it would raise some alarms but still wouldn't be a reason to oppose stem cell research. Instead, it would point to the fact that there needs to be some very clear legislation to ensure that stem cell research is done appropriately. However, there are MANY possible reasons why a pro-abortion group would be interested in stem-cell research; the above is just ONE possibility.

Obviously there are some serious ethical concerns surrounding stem cell research. Fortunately, aborted fetuses are not the only source of stem cells.

I agree completely.

I don't think the thread starter meant to give the impression that this particular development was primarily why he opposes stem cell research.

It'd be interesting to know why exactly a pro-abortion group is supporting this research however.

[voodoo]

Originally posted by lil'babykitten:
Will I receive a collective slap from you all if I say that our Herman friend here has a point?

Three letters: KBL <threatening stare>

[vmpaul]

Originally posted by lil'babykitten:


It'd be interesting to know why exactly a pro-abortion group is supporting this research however.

You want the cynical answer?

Because of the same reasons Bush and the extreme right wing oppose stem cell research - for political reasons. Pro-abortion groups are just making a stand. Although I find their stand much less objectionable (and likely to do less harm) then the anti-abortion folk.

Anti-abortion groups are trying to define the moment of conception as the start of life and therefore push their anti-abortion agenda forward. Nevermind that to the majority of Americans (both Democrat and Republican) the matter is already settled. Abortion is legal and will continue to be for the foreseeable future. Nevermind that by making this a political issue regarding their strident anti-abortion stance that they are delaying and possibly ending hopes for million with debilitative diseases that could be cured by stem cell therapies. In other words, they are playing games with the health of millions for an extreme political viewpoint.

That's not to say that every member of those organizations support what the public facing arm of their groups say. I'm sure there are people on both sides who see the real motives behind the scientists and researchers who are diligently working to find cures for some of these awful diseases. But playing politics with this issue is nothing but ugly.

[Lerkfish]

Originally posted by Dr.HermanG.:
Do you ever have anything useful to say?

I think his point is more than valid. I think you're incorrect to label it useless.

But I think that, for someone like you, your own point is valid as well. Since you equate pro-choice with EVIL, anything that even remotely is connected to it is also EVIL.

And, probably, if some well-to-do rich kid got a 15 yr. old pregnant, and took her across state lines to make her get an abortion before abortions were EVIL, you'd consider that EVIL too, right?

[Lerkfish]

Originally posted by Dr.HermanG.:
I said in the thread title that this is a reason, not the reason.

I am highly suspicious of the motives behind stem cell research in the first place and when I see pro-abortion groups lining up to support it the dots don't take long for me to connect together.

sort of like.....ermm....a conspiracy!!

You seriously need some competent mental health professional to handle your case.

[Spheric Harlot]

vmpaul:

Originally posted by Wiskedjak:
One has to wonder why a pro-abortion group is supporting stem-cell research. However, that isn't a reason to oppose stem cell research. If that pro-abortion group is in turn supported by a group that would profit from harvesting stem cells, it would raise some alarms but still wouldn't be a reason to oppose stem cell research. Instead, it would point to the fact that there needs to be some very clear legislation to ensure that stem cell research is done appropriately.

NOOOOOOOOOoooooooooo.....!

That would mean "Big Government"!

Free Science!

Free Market!

If it's a bad idea, it will fail anyway!

etc.

signed,

-The Right/Libertarian

[lil'babykitten]

Originally posted by voodoo:
Three letters: KBL <threatening stare>

Kitten Baby Little? I don't feel threatened at all!

[lil'babykitten]

Originally posted by vmpaul:
That's not to say that every member of those organizations support what the public facing arm of their groups say. I'm sure there are people on both sides who see the real motives behind the scientists and researchers who are diligently working to find cures for some of these awful diseases. But playing politics with this issue is nothing but ugly.

Agreed.

[greenamp]

Originally posted by Spheric Harlot:
That is probably the dumbest reasoning I've seen out of you so far.

You're also boycotting McDonald's, because I hear some pro-choice people eat there.

You're also boycotting Fox News, because al Qaeda members watch it too.

You also no longer fly, since terrorists use commercial aircraft, too.

And of course, you NEVER visit doctors or hospitals, because we all know what THEY have to do with abortion.

Right?

-s*

Your comparisons are all badly flawed.

[macvillage.net]

Originally posted by Wiskedjak:
One has to wonder why a pro-abortion group is supporting stem-cell research. However, that isn't a reason to oppose stem cell research. If that pro-abortion group is in turn supported by a group that would profit from harvesting stem cells, it would raise some alarms but still wouldn't be a reason to oppose stem cell research. Instead, it would point to the fact that there needs to be some very clear legislation to ensure that stem cell research is done appropriately. However, there are MANY possible reasons why a pro-abortion group would be interested in stem-cell research; the above is just ONE possibility.

Obviously there are some serious ethical concerns surrounding stem cell research. Fortunately, aborted fetuses are not the only source of stem cells.

There are many groups that support various causes.

Why do companies sponsor things like Breast Cancer Walks?

Why do local chapters of PETA participate in AIDS Research campaigning?

Why do members of a local red cross chapter participate together in the March of Dimes?

[djohnson]

Stem Cell Research -> Genetic Engineering

[Wiskedjak]

Originally posted by djohnson:
Stem Cell Research -> Genetic Engineering

Genetic engineering already exists, my friend. Stem cell research has absolutely nothing to do with genetic engineering. Stopping stem cell research will do absolutely nothing to stop genetic engineering.

Better take off that tin-foil hat before someone mistakes you for a CONSPIRACY THEORIST.

[djohnson]

Originally posted by Wiskedjak:

Genetic engineering already exists, my friend. Stem cell research has absolutely nothing to do with genetic engineering. Stopping stem cell research will do absolutely nothing to stop genetic engineering.

Better take off that tin-foil hat before someone mistakes you for a CONSPIRACY THEORIST.

Are you kidding me? I will assume( ) that you know enough about stem cell research... It can and will lead to better genetic engineering abilities. I am not talking about small scale engineering, I am talking about the ability to create a super race of people.

[macvillage.net]

Originally posted by djohnson:
Are you kidding me? I will assume( ) that you know enough about stem cell research... It can and will lead to better genetic engineering abilities. I am not talking about small scale engineering, I am talking about the ability to create a super race of people.

That's really just far out theory.

In reality, what's being researched is using it to cure various illnesses and injuries (in particular brain spinal and other nervous problems).

There's great potential of a stem cell operation or injection to heal a spinal injury (which can cause anything from backpain in many americans to an injury like Christopher Reeves).

[Dakar]

Originally posted by djohnson:
Stem Cell Research -> Genetic Engineering

I suppose you're opposed to it because we're "playing God?"

[vmpaul]

Originally posted by djohnson:
Are you kidding me? I will assume( ) that you know enough about stem cell research... It can and will lead to better genetic engineering abilities. I am not talking about small scale engineering, I am talking about the ability to create a super race of people.

Interesting bit of logic you have there.

Stem cell research does not equal genetic engineering. As Wiskedjak said, the two have nothing to do with each other.

By your logic, I'm assuming you're for outlawing guns. Yes, guns are used for self-protection and sport but more often than not they are used for crime. They must be too dangerous to keep around, right? Are you proposing we stop all research into understanding our universe because it might be used in a dangerous manner?

All knowledge (and technology) is a double-edged sword. How we decide to apply that knowledge is the measure of our society. The goal of stem cell research is to find cures for disease. Nothing more.

[Stradlater]

Originally posted by Wiskedjak:

Genetic engineering already exists, my friend.

Yup, and working stem cell therapy's been around for over a decade, I think.

[Spheric Harlot]

Originally posted by greenamp:
Your comparisons are all badly flawed.

Yes. That realization was Step 1.

Now for Step 2.

You are *this* --><-- close to actually getting the point I was making.

-s*

[itai195]

Originally posted by djohnson:
Are you kidding me? I will assume( ) that you know enough about stem cell research... It can and will lead to better genetic engineering abilities. I am not talking about small scale engineering, I am talking about the ability to create a super race of people.

And belief in Christianity will lead to the apocalypse, causing the deaths of billions. Lets ban it!

[voodoo]

Originally posted by djohnson:
Are you kidding me? I will assume( ) that you know enough about stem cell research... It can and will lead to better genetic engineering abilities. I am not talking about small scale engineering, I am talking about the ability to create a super race of people.

Genetic engineering and stem cell research have nothing to do with each other. Take it from me, I'm a molecular biologist.

[Mr. Bob]

The reason why NARAL supports stem-cell research is because they support embryonic stem cell research, and fetal tissue stem-cell research.

I don’t have a problem with adult stem-cell research, as people choose to use their cells with their permission.

I also don’t have a problem with using umbilical cords for stem-cell research either, as it is a normally discard body part. The mother can choose whether or not to donate it, as the baby does not need it to function in any capacity.

However, using aborted fetuses, and embryos are bad. Simple logic and understanding makes abortion, and embryonic stem-cell research a blatant hypocrisy against what we call civil rights, just as bad as slavery, and ethnic cleansing (the Indians), both of which America has played a role in.

Now, NARAL likes it because if people like embryonic stem-cell research, and fetal tissue stem-cell research, that makes it easier for people to accept hacking apart little children while they are still in the womb.

I believe people should be able to choose their destiny. When a person is still just a simple one-cell organism, (we all were one time), and cant yet speak. That doesn’t give the go ahead to kill that person for medical research. Now, again some people will say (cant the woman choose her destiny?!?), and when she made the “choice ™” to have sex, she just did.

Just because NARAL likes stem-cell research, does not mean that you should dislike it. As long as mankind does not sacrifice his basic ideals of civil liberties for their betterment (something we seem to be good at in America), it is all good.

Embryonic and fetal stem-cell research is just as bad as when the Japanese hacked up people from China against their will, to get better medical techniques. Granted, a fetus and embryo cannot yet talk, but that does not mean he or she is saying “YES”.

I await hypocrisy on why abortion is not murder, as some people still think black is white for their convenience. But, adult and umbilical stem-cell research is good, and offers many cures to mankind’s woes. Those are what you should be supporting. However, the other two, are indeed bad, unless you truly believe only 75% of people in America deserve civil liberties.

[Spliffdaddy]

very compelling argument, Mr Bob.

[Logic]

One question for those of you who are against stem-cell research.

1. Could you give me a somewhat detailed account on what stem-cell research actually is?

Just wondering

[dodo_nutter]

Basically you are growing a few cells. Just like you would make a culture of bacteria. Noone objects to research on bacteria for developing antibiotics do they and hundreds of millions of bacteria cells are killed doing just that so what's the problem with researching on a few cells that could make a human IF you multiplied their number by a couple of billion?? You don't kill baby's to get the stem cells (I actually had to pursuade a woman thats not what they did once and work on a bar )

[dodo_nutter]

BTW read up for yourself here

[chris v]

Originally posted by dodo_nutter:
Basically you are growing a few cells. Just like you would make a culture of bacteria. Noone objects to research on bacteria for developing antibiotics do they and hundreds of millions of bacteria cells are killed doing just that so what's the problem with researching on a few cells that could make a human IF you multiplied their number by a couple of billion?? You don't kill baby's to get the stem cells (I actually had to pursuade a woman thats not what they did once and work on a bar )

Save the Bacterias.

[dodo_nutter]

Hehehehe

[Stradlater]

Originally posted by Spliffdaddy:
very compelling argument, Mr Bob.

</sarcasm?>

[Wiskedjak]

Originally posted by Mr. Bob:
<snip>

Agreed. Just because SOME stem cell research is morally objectionable doesn't mean ALL stem cell research is. That's why I take issue with statements such as "This is a reason why I oppose stem cell research...". A more thought out statement would be "This is a reason why I oppose stem cell research using aborted fetal and embryonic tissue".

[JLFanboy]

Originally posted by Mr. Bob:
However, using aborted fetuses, and embryos are bad. Simple logic and understanding makes abortion, and embryonic stem-cell research a blatant hypocrisy against what we call civil rights, just as bad as slavery, and ethnic cleansing (the Indians), both of which America has played a role in.

Simple logic can do a lot of things, can't it? For instance, I can use simple logic to show that there is nothing wrong with abortion and embryonic stem-cell research, and there is no shred of hypocrisy in it. It feels almost futile to say this but fetuses and embryos are NOT people. They are FETUSES and EMBRYOS. I really hope you have to go through having someone in your family go through something like Alzheimer's. It's sad that oftentimes it takes personal tragedy to make people see the importance of stem-cell research.

[vmpaul]

You want to know what the bottom-line, practical reality of this issue is?

As soon as the first cure is found from stem cell research, all this moaning and ethical high-mindedness and political back-fighting is going to fall faster than Enron stock. No politician is going to want to be seen standing in the way of a cure for people suffering. There is no way they'll survive in the political arena.

If need be, we'll see all sorts traveling to Great Britain, or South Korea, or China to obtain cures in countries where there's less restrictions on stem cell research. But that won't last long as the pressure on the US politicians would be too big to ignore. Look what's happening with prescription drugs and allowing seniors to travel to Canada to obtain them.

As there will be no one, including people like our own Mr. Bob and Dr.Herman here, who will turn down a stem cell therapy if they are suffering from diabetes, heart disease, Parkinson's, or a spinal cord injury that could be cured. Or if they have to support a mother, father, sister, brother, or spouse that could be helped.

Can you imagine a father who would deny their child a therapy that would cure them of diabetes or allow them to walk again after a spinal cord injury? Would you deny your child a cure all for the sake of a few cells in a petri dish? Absolutely no way.