Welcome to the MacNN Forums.

If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above. You may have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below.

You are here: MacNN Forums > Community > MacNN Lounge > Political/War Lounge > Palestinians 'end hunger strike'

Palestinians 'end hunger strike'
Thread Tools
Addicted to MacNN
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: The northernmost capital of the world
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Aug 27, 2004, 07:46 PM
 

"If Bush says we hate freedom, let him tell us why we didn't attack Sweden, for example. OBL 29th oct
     
Moderator
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Up In The Air
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Aug 27, 2004, 08:54 PM
 
Did you even see the full list of demands they had?

The BEEB didn't print them.

1. To allow the following to be purchased at the cantina by every prisoner: a
light-bulb for reading, electronic dictionary without restricting the brand, electric
shaving-machine, and electric fan
2. To install air ventilation in the cells and section as well as air conditioning
3. To install air conditioning at the visiting area and waiting cells
4. To provide electric kettle
5. To provide an electric toaster for each cell
6. To provide a small refrigerator in each cell
7. A small photocopier in each section
8. To install an Antenna for the radio
9. To allow winter jackets
10. To allow waist belts
11. To allow sport ropes
12. To allow to have cameras in each section and to be able to take collective
photos
13. To allow fruits knife in each cell

I wonder if they ended the strike in part because they saw that their leader Marwan Barghouti was stuffing his face when he was asking them to fast?
If this post is in the Lounge forum, it is likely to be my own opinion, and not representative of the position of MacNN.com.

     
Addicted to MacNN
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Appalachia
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Aug 27, 2004, 09:13 PM
 
Originally posted by vmarks:

I wonder if they ended the strike in part because they saw that their leader Marwan Barghouti was stuffing his face when he was asking them to fast?
Well man, do you blame him? It's hard to lead a rebellion on an empty stomach.

Retired
     
Logic  (op)
Addicted to MacNN
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: The northernmost capital of the world
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Aug 27, 2004, 09:14 PM
 
Originally posted by vmarks:
Did you even see the full list of demands they had?

The BEEB didn't print them.

1. To allow the following to be purchased at the cantina by every prisoner: a
light-bulb for reading, electronic dictionary without restricting the brand, electric
shaving-machine, and electric fan
2. To install air ventilation in the cells and section as well as air conditioning
3. To install air conditioning at the visiting area and waiting cells
4. To provide electric kettle
5. To provide an electric toaster for each cell
6. To provide a small refrigerator in each cell
7. A small photocopier in each section
8. To install an Antenna for the radio
9. To allow winter jackets
10. To allow waist belts
11. To allow sport ropes
12. To allow to have cameras in each section and to be able to take collective
photos
13. To allow fruits knife in each cell

I wonder if they ended the strike in part because they saw that their leader Marwan Barghouti was stuffing his face when he was asking them to fast?
1. They don't have lights in their cells? What do you mean with an electronic dictionary? Why can't they have an electric shaving machine? And why can't they have a fan?
2. Very reasonable.
3. Should be of course.
4. Electric kettle? My English is letting me down, could you explain what that is?
5. That's simply a ridiculous claim.
6. ^^
7. Why would they want that?
8. Why shouldn't they have an antenna for the radio?
9. How cold does it get in Israel in the winter? If it gets cold that isn't unreasonable.
10. Should be forbidden.
11. Should be forbidden.
12. Of course this should be denied.
12. And why should this be forbidden? Fruit knifes don't have to be sharp and dangerous to the guards.


And one question for you. Do Israeli prisoners have any of this?

"If Bush says we hate freedom, let him tell us why we didn't attack Sweden, for example. OBL 29th oct
     
Addicted to MacNN
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Appalachia
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Aug 27, 2004, 09:25 PM
 
Originally posted by Logic:
1. They don't have lights in their cells? What do you mean with an electronic dictionary? Why can't they have an electric shaving machine? And why can't they have a fan?
2. Very reasonable.
3. Should be of course.
4. Electric kettle? My English is letting me down, could you explain what that is?
5. That's simply a ridiculous claim.
6. ^^
7. Why would they want that?
8. Why shouldn't they have an antenna for the radio?
9. How cold does it get in Israel in the winter? If it gets cold that isn't unreasonable.
10. Should be forbidden.
11. Should be forbidden.
12. Of course this should be denied.
12. And why should this be forbidden? Fruit knifes don't have to be sharp and dangerous to the guards.


And one question for you. Do Israeli prisoners have any of this?
So with you in charge, they'd have continued to starve? By "electric kettle" I think they mean a crock pot, an electric soup cooker.

Retired
     
Moderator
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Up In The Air
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Aug 27, 2004, 09:30 PM
 
Actually, the list of demands goes on:

http://www.addameer.org/hunger_strike/demands.html

ADDAMEER
Prisoners' Support and Human Rights Association


August 15, 2004


Palestinian Prisoners Demands Presented to Israeli Prisons Service (IPS)


One: Family and/or Lawyers Visits


1. To remove the glass/plastic barrier between prisoners and visitors
2. To increase the period of family visit to one hour
3. To allow personal contact with children as in the past
4. To allow all family members and relatives to visit
5. To allow brothers and sisters to visit as in the past
6. To allow private visits (without barriers)
7. To allow second and third degree relatives to visit
8. To relocate detainees/prisoners in areas close to their residential areas
9. To relocate prisoners who are immediate relatives in one prison
10. To allow personal belongings and clothes to be brought during visits
11. To allow prisoners to take photos with family members and children
12. To allow family visits for Arab prisoners once every 6 months for at least�_
four hours
13. To allow visitors to bring with them an unlimited number of photographs of�_
relatives
14. To allow visitors to bring with them bed-covers, watches, Palestinian head�_
scarves, head wear, etc.
15. To make family visits on Fridays as in the past
16. To bring in families to visit as soon as they arrive to the prison. No delays
either at the prison or at checkpoints.
17. To allow prisoners to take out cantina (canteen food and drinks) to the visit
without limitations
18. To allow prisoners to take to any kind of drinks to the visit and not limit
it to "Sprite"
19. To allow prisoners to be in plain clothes during the visit and not restricted
to uniforms of certain colors or design
20. To allow prisoners' handwork to be given out at the visit after coordination
21. To allow bringing in all kinds of cigarettes, audio-tapes, and video-tapes�_
during the visit


Two: Phone Calls


1. To install pay phones in prison sections and/or yards and/or cells or allow�_
mobile phones in every cell or for every prisoner
2. To allow prisoners representatives to make phone calls to prisoner's organizations
and lawyers and to Palestinian Ministry of Prisoners Affairs.
3. To remove all signal-distortion equipment - known to cause various health problems including cancer


Three: Food


1. To prepare and define a list of quantities of all sorts of food that prisoners
have the right to receive and to provide this list to prisoners representatives
2. To change the basket of vegetables and fruits and end the practice of the administrations taking part of it
3. To allow prisoners to buy vegetables, fruits, fish, and meats of all sorts on
a monthly basis
4. To allow prisoners in all prisons to prepare their own food according to their
customs and religions
5. To give back kitchen equipment that was taken away from prisoners in all "security" prisons
6. To change old kitchen utensils and replace them with new ones
7. To open bakeries and allow Palestinian prisoners to work at them; to allow bread to be brought in during visits


Four: Health Care / Treatment


1. To develop and expand clinics and equip them for emergency cases especially at Nafha prison; A practicing physician should be at the clinic 7 days a week
2. To allow a Palestinian prisoner to be present and working at the clinic
3. To conduct surgery for prisoners immediately (without the usual intentional�_
delay)
4. To allow physicians from outside to be able to check prisoners and ease the�_
procedures in doing so
5. To widen the range of physicians to include all specialties
6. To allow dental surgeries/ teeth implants at the expense of prisoners by their
own doctors
7. To perform kidney, cornea and prosthetic transplants for those prisoners who
have been waiting for years.
8. To allow the purchase of medical mattresses, pillows, shoes and some pharmaceuticals through the cantina
9. To solve all problems related to the hospital in Ramleh
10. An overall medical checkup for every prisoner at least once a year
11. A optician visit to every prison on a regular and constant basis; eye checkups
for every prisoner once every 6 months, changing of glasses when needed, allow the use of eye lenses; and to provide all needed supplies to solve health problems related vision
12. To allow prisoners to have the equipment necessary to measure blood pressure and sugar levels where needed


Five: Counting


1. To end all practices and policies accompanying counting the prisoners; allow
all those prisoners in isolation back to regular sections


Six: Collective Punishment


1. To end all collective punishments
2. To end the policy of fines
3. To end the policy of confiscating personal belongings and punishing prisoners
by denying them family visits
4. To return all money confiscated from prisoners accounts to be able to use them in enhancing the health care and the education of prisoners
5. To compensate prisoners for every item that was damaged intentionally through raids on cell-blocks
6. To define the maximum isolation period as a punishment to a week and to provide humane detention conditions in isolation cells: access to toilets, a washing sink, a two hour recreation period, to allow a fan, to allow books and radio and cantina, not to handcuff prisoners inside the cells, to end the policy of handcuffing prisoners while meeting prison administration


Seven: Education at Universities


1. To allow prisoners to study at Palestinian, Arab, and International Universities
2. To end the policy of punishing prisoners by denying them the right to continue
their education
3. To allow newspapers, journals and magazines without any delay
4. To allow purchasing different electronic dictionaries not limited to one brand
5. To allow all cells to have access to a computer and not only students
6. To allocate study rooms and halls and to reopen all libraries
7. To allow stationary without limitation in type or quantities
8. To allow photocopying research material, educational material


Eight: Cantina


1. To allow buying from Arab sources and end the monopoly
2. To cancel the additional 17% tax
3. To unify the prices for all prisons
4. To end all restrictions on the items allowed
5. To form an investigation committee to check on the legality of the 17% additional tax and on the right of prisoners to benefit from the profit of the cantina


Nine: Movement within each section and the recreation area
1. To increase the recreation time to four hours a day as used to be the case
2. To restore visits between section and cells to day-long visits
3. To leave cell doors within each section open all day
4. To restore the right of elderly, ill prisoners, those who spent over tenyears
of imprisonment, and prisoners with special needs to get to yards and recreation
areas freely
5. To allow university students to choose recreation time suitable for them
6. To allow prisoners representatives to be able to visit sections, recreational
areas, and to be present at family visits in order to be able to follow up on issues
and concerns and solve any problem without making this right dependant on the mood of security guards
7. To open the gate to the recreational area every half an hour to enable prisoners to get to the area or back to sections
8. To allow freedom of movement within each section without restricting the time
or period
9. To install water pipes in each section
10. To restore the weekly general cleaning day as in the past
11. To install water pipes to the recreation area and the yard as used to be the
case
12. To restore the recreation time from 15:00 to 17:00 and from 17:00 to 19:00
13. To allow working prisoners to stay at the recreation area until 20:00
14. Not to transfer a prisoner from any prison before spending 2 years in it unless
the prisoner applies for a transfer
15. To cancel the policy of moving certain prisoners constantly around the prisons, never settling in one
16. To allow Friday Imams to be able to move from one section to another
17. To allow having events, debates, celebrations in the recreation areas and yards as in the past
18. Freedom to transfer among cells within one section without any sort of restriction
19. To remove the ban on practicing Karate during the recreation period

Ten: Tools, Instruments, private and general equipment


1. To allow the following to be purchased at the cantina by every prisoner: a�_
light-bulb for reading, electronic dictionary without restricting the brand, electric
shaving-machine, and electric fan
2. To install air ventilation in the cells and section as well as air conditioning
3. To install air conditioning at the visiting area and waiting cells
4. To provide electric kettle
5. To provide an electric toaster for each cell
6. To provide a small refrigerator in each cell
7. A small photocopier in each section
8. To install an Antenna for the radio
9. To allow winter jackets
10. To allow waist belts
11. To allow sport ropes
12. To allow to have cameras in each section and to be able to take collective�_
photos
13. To allow fruits knife in each cell


Eleven: Searching and Security Checks


1. To end the practice of body search by hand and to restrict it to electronic scanning
2. To stop searching children 14 years old and under during visits
3. End totally strip search
4. End night searches and the practice of Matsada unit, dissolve it or end it's services
5. Not to handcuff prisoners during the search
6. Never to damage or confiscate personal belongings while searching
7. To stop searching prisoners each time they leave to the recreation area or to prayers
8. Security search be limited to only once a day maximum and not to force prisoners outside the section during the search
9. Security search to be conducted during the recreation period
10. To limit the overall general search to once every 6 months


Twelve: Working Facilities


1. To increase the number of working prisoners in the various facilities
2. To restore kitchens, laundries, and sewing and allow Palestinian prisoners to work at these facilities
3. To allow at least two prisoners to work in the section (corridor) outside the cells till 22:30 and extend their recreation time till 20:00
4. To re-allow a prisoner to work in yard and recreation area as in the past and to make available a storage room and a room for working and working tools
5. To allow a prisoner to work at the clinic
6. To restore the special recreation period for workers
7. To raise payment for workers
8. To allow an additional worker at the library
9. To allow a worker to fix electric equipment in each section as in the past
10. To allow all tools for hairdressing and to change them once every 6 months


Thirteen: Counting


1. To allow prisoners in the upper beds not to step down at the morning count and to limit to them just raising themselves up in their beds
2. To be content by showing the hands for those who are in toilets at the time of counting taking into consideration to avoid using the toilet around the time of count unless it's urgent or to pass the cell and return to it later


Fourteen: Transfer, Travel and waiting (passing) sections


1. To allow prisoners to have cantina with them while being transferred (canned
food, etc.)
2. To be moved directly to the buses without being held and delayed in waiting�_
rooms
3. To change seats in the buses to more comfortable ones
4. Each prisoner to be handcuffed separately from others and to stop using the plastic handcuffs and replace them with the metal ones
5. To allow prisoners representatives to meet newly transferred prisoners at the bus as they arrive
6. To improve all conditions at the passing (waiting) sections in each of Asqalan, Ramleh, and Birsheva prisons
7. To remove the darkened windows of the buses


Fifteen: General Demands


1. To return to prisoners all the cans (canned food) and cups and all what was confiscated in Asqalan and Nafha after the last raids
2. To allow handwork and to be able to purchase all needed at the cantina or to be able to get it during visits
3. To remove asbestos from the cells to improve ventilation in cells and sections
4. To provide once again what the administrations used to provide at their expense: tooth paste, tooth brush, soap, cleaning and hygiene provisions, etc.
5. To make available lists of IPS rules in every section in Arabic
6. To increase the number of allowed TV channels
7. To re-install wooden boards to all beds, change the beds each year, paint cells each year, and to install sides to the beds
8. To remove all male guards from female sections
9. To improve all conditions and to meet all needs of imprisoned minors
10. To end the use of arbitrary transfer of prisoners from one prison to another
11. To remove one bed in each cell
12. To end the use of the special classification of certain prisoners "prisoners sentenced for serious offences" and end all unjustified punishments against them and to allow them to be able to work at various facilities in the prisons
13. To implements the Geneva Convention and all international human rights standards and agreements
14. To use only the buses to transfer prisoners between prisons and/or to and from court hearings
15. To allow visits on special occasions as religious holidays
16. To double the number and the period of visits during holidays
17. To allow prisoners to send out written material: diaries, poems, studies, prose, etc. during visits
18. To define the life sentence as in the case of Israeli prisoners and to consider seriously the provision of parole
19. Not to interfere in Friday prayers and/or preaching and not to punish preachers for whatever they say
20. To allow hard covers for books and never to remove them
21. To separate shower area from toilets
22. To provide prosthetics for those prisoners with amputations



ADDAMEER Prisoners Support and Human Rights Association
P.O.Box 17338, Jerusalem
Ramallah Office: Al-Isra' Bldg., 7th floor, Al-Irsal St.
Tel: +972-2-2960446 Fax: +972-2-2960447
E-mail: addameer@planet.edu
If this post is in the Lounge forum, it is likely to be my own opinion, and not representative of the position of MacNN.com.

     
Logic  (op)
Addicted to MacNN
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: The northernmost capital of the world
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Aug 27, 2004, 09:42 PM
 
Originally posted by MacNStein:
So with you in charge, they'd have continued to starve? By "electric kettle" I think they mean a crock pot, an electric soup cooker.
Nah. First I wouldn't keep people without charging them for crimes. I know, crazy idea don't you think?

Then I would make sure that they would be in suitable living conditions so that something like this wouldn't come up. And if my public defenders office would strongly condemn the conditions in the prisons I would listen to what they have to say.

"If Bush says we hate freedom, let him tell us why we didn't attack Sweden, for example. OBL 29th oct
     
Mac Elite
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Over there...
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Aug 27, 2004, 09:55 PM
 
Well, it is the Olympics after all..
"******* politics is for the ******* moment. ******** equations are for ******** Eternity." ******** Albert Einstein
     
Logic  (op)
Addicted to MacNN
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: The northernmost capital of the world
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Aug 27, 2004, 10:13 PM
 
One: Family and/or Lawyers Visits
See no problem with any of this, and can't believe some of this is forbidden.
Two: Phone Calls
K, nr. 3 is a bit dubious but this should of course all be allowed.
Three: Food
5. Is perhaps a bit dubious but everything else sounds reasonable.
Four: Health Care / Treatment
See no problem with any of this.
Five: Counting
This should be denied.
Six: Collective Punishment
The last part of number six should be denied but everything else sounds reasonable.
Seven: Education at Universities
Number 5 is the only thing I see a problem with. Education has always been the best way of rehabilitation.
Eight: Cantina
4 is the only thing that I see a problem with.
Nine: Movement within each section and the recreation area
See no problem with any of this.
Eleven: Searching and Security Checks
Some are OK, some are questionable and some would not be possible
Twelve: Working Facilities
Only 10 would be a problem.
Thirteen: Counting
Debatable
Fourteen: Transfer, Travel and waiting (passing) sections
1, 4, 5, 6 OK. The other debatable.
Fifteen: General Demands
All completely acceptable. These ones were particularly bad to read:
18. To define the life sentence as in the case of Israeli prisoners and to consider seriously the provision of parole
19. Not to interfere in Friday prayers and/or preaching and not to punish preachers for whatever they say


After reading that I have to ask. Do you treat the Palestinian prisoners worse than animals?

"If Bush says we hate freedom, let him tell us why we didn't attack Sweden, for example. OBL 29th oct
     
Moderator
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Up In The Air
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Aug 27, 2004, 10:38 PM
 
You don't allow incitement among prisoners. You know as well as I do that Friday prayer sermons encourage people to kill, kill the Jews. I have provided video examples of this in the past. Of course, a religion of Peace would never have a problem with this because they wouldn't incite people to homicidal martyrdom. Damn right they should prohibit that kind of behavior in the course of 'prayers.'

Your view of granting these demands, even with your disallowances, would have prisoners with luxuries in their cells, freedom to walk about as they please, freedom to take and give items freely to family and friends (smuggling things in and out? in bed sheets? in baked bread?) freedom to have a knife in the cell, freedom to incite to riot and murder. In a prison.

Increasing television channels and air conditioning everything is unnecessary. For two years I lived without air conditioning in Tel-Aviv. Granted, I was not a prisoner, but it really isn't needed. Even now I don't use it much, if at all.

Sorry, but prison is no field day or pleasure cruise. These people are there because they had a role in killing noncombatants. Many of them are happy to tell reporters that they will do it again if they are paroled.
If this post is in the Lounge forum, it is likely to be my own opinion, and not representative of the position of MacNN.com.

     
Clinically Insane
Join Date: Nov 1999
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Aug 28, 2004, 09:38 AM
 
Originally posted by vmarks:
Actually, the list of demands goes on:
Dude; that's a long list of demands. A fair number of them are actually quite reasonable, but many are not. I see little point in listing the ones which people already agree on, so let's have another look at the others.

By the way, I am coming from a perspective of prisons in general here; I do not mean to single out Palestinian prisoners.
1. To remove the glass/plastic barrier between prisoners and visitors
Um, no. This is standard practice in many prisons, and is necessary to keep visitors from handing dangerous objects to prisoners.
6. To allow private visits (without barriers)
See above. Or are you talking about conjugal visits?
8. To relocate detainees/prisoners in areas close to their residential areas
9. To relocate prisoners who are immediate relatives in one prison
Let each prisoner be placed into the facility best suited to his crime and also his needs. That may not be close by.
14. To allow visitors to bring with them bed-covers, watches, Palestinian head�_scarves, head wear, etc.
On the condition that these things can be thoroughly inspected.
16. To bring in families to visit as soon as they arrive to the prison. No delays either at the prison or at checkpoints.
Um, no. Way too easy to introduce dangerous items.
18. To allow prisoners to take to any kind of drinks to the visit and not limit it to "Sprite"
What's wrong with Sprite? Ahem. All joking aside, this seems more or less reasonable, though I'd restrict hot drinks, such as coffee. This is a safety thing.
20. To allow prisoners' handwork to be given out at the visit after coordination
No. This makes it way too easy to send out coded messages.
21. To allow bringing in all kinds of cigarettes, audio-tapes, and video-tapes�_ during the visit
See above.
1. To install pay phones in prison sections and/or yards and/or cells or allow�_ mobile phones in every cell or for every prisoner
Installing pay phones seems reasonable. Cell-phones, on the other hand, are not.
3. To remove all signal-distortion equipment - known to cause various health problems including cancer
OK, so long as they can immediately replace it with appropriate signal-shielding, and the jammers can remain in place until the shielding is complete.
7. To open bakeries and allow Palestinian prisoners to work at them; to allow bread to be brought in during visits
Such a specific request bothers me. Bread might be permissible after inspection, however.
1. To end all practices and policies accompanying counting the prisoners; allow all those prisoners in isolation back to regular sections
Does this mean a complete end to solitary confinement? No dice.
1. To end all collective punishments
What do they mean by this? Honest question.
2. To end the policy of fines
I certainly hope they don't mean ending fines in general; is there something more specific that has been lost in translation?
5. To compensate prisoners for every item that was damaged intentionally through raids on cell-blocks
Sure, but prove intent first.
1. To allow prisoners to study at Palestinian, Arab, and International Universities
I presume this would be handled through some kind of distance-learning program? Fair enough, if the prisoner can pay for it.
3. To allow newspapers, journals and magazines without any delay
This is standard procedure at most prisons, and is there for a reason.
4. To allow purchasing different electronic dictionaries not limited to one brand
Why must it be electronic? What brand do they want, anyway?
5. To allow all cells to have access to a computer and not only students
No. Set up a computer lab if need be, but private computers cause way too many problems.
4. To end all restrictions on the items allowed
They must be joking.
2. To restore visits between section and cells to day-long visits
That's too long.
3. To leave cell doors within each section open all day
That becomes a rather severe safety issue. Remember, these doors not only keep people in, they also keep people out.
19. To remove the ban on practicing Karate during the recreation period
Fair enough, but only under the strictest of supervision. Frankly, this is one where I'd only allow it if the guards could also train under the same instructor, so that it does not become an advantage for the prisoners.
4. To provide electric kettle
5. To provide an electric toaster for each cell
6. To provide a small refrigerator in each cell
Um, no. The first two are too easily used as weapons, and why is the third a necessity?
8. To install an Antenna for the radio
Explain, please; I get the feeling that something has been lost in translation.
9. To allow winter jackets
Honest question: how cold does it get in Israel during the winter? If it's cold enough to require a winter jacket, then this is quite reasonable.
10. To allow waist belts
11. To allow sport ropes
Too easily used as weapons. It might be theoretically possible to allow versions of these which could snap before actually strangling someone, but then they wouldn't be effective as waist belts or sport ropes.
13. To allow fruits knife in each cell
Are they insane?
1. To end the practice of body search by hand and to restrict it to electronic scanning
There are weapons which can defeat electronic scans. This said, it's reasonable for someone to be able to request a search from someone not attracted to the subject's gender.
2. To stop searching children 14 years old and under during visits
They should at least have electronic scans.
3. End totally strip search
"Totally" is awfully extreme. Placing strict regulations on it, however, alongside severe punishments for using it inappropriately, is reasonable.
6. Never to damage or confiscate personal belongings while searching
"Never" is extreme, but compensation should be provided.
8. Security search be limited to only once a day maximum and not to force prisoners outside the section during the search
The one-a-day limit is too predictable.
5. To allow a prisoner to work at the clinic
In certain jobs, perhaps, such as transcription. Having prisoners working in a health-care facility, however, opens up way too many potential problems.
10. To allow all tools for hairdressing and to change them once every 6 months
The tools should be restricted to use by a barber, but changing them regularly is reasonable.
4. Each prisoner to be handcuffed separately from others and to stop using the plastic handcuffs and replace them with the metal ones
Reasonable, though I am curious about desiring metal handcuffs over plastic ones.
8. To remove all male guards from female sections
Reasonable, if there are enough female guards. Again, it's reasonable for a prisoner to request a guard who is not attracted to the prisoner's gender.
12. To end the use of the special classification of certain prisoners "prisoners sentenced for serious offences" and end all unjustified punishments against them and to allow them to be able to work at various facilities in the prisons
I'm not sure I agree with this. Those sentenced for serious offenses do warrant special concern.
14. To use only the buses to transfer prisoners between prisons and/or to and from court hearings
What's being used now? I think something has been lost in translation.
17. To allow prisoners to send out written material: diaries, poems, studies, prose, etc. during visits
Inspection first, of course, but then reasonable. Again, there is the problem of coded messages.
19. Not to interfere in Friday prayers and/or preaching and not to punish preachers for whatever they say
If the preachers are held to the same rules as everyone else, then that's reasonable.
You are in Soviet Russia. It is dark. Grue is likely to be eaten by YOU!
     
Logic  (op)
Addicted to MacNN
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: The northernmost capital of the world
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Aug 28, 2004, 10:57 AM
 
Originally posted by Millennium:
Honest question: how cold does it get in Israel during the winter? If it's cold enough to require a winter jacket, then this is quite reasonable.
If I recall correctly it snowed in Israel last winter so it can get pretty cold. But I would guess that people used to 25-30°C and above would feel pretty cold if the temperature falls under 10°C. But that is just a guess since the temperature here on Iceland doesn't go over 10°C But like I said, if IIRC it snowed last winter in Israel.

Reasonable, though I am curious about desiring metal handcuffs over plastic ones.
The plastic ones can cut people pretty badly. I've experienced that myself. The metal handcuffs are more comfortable.


But like I said, most of those demands are very reasonable IMO and it surprises me that they'd have to "fight" for them. A few are way over the top though, and then there are several that might be negotiable. But from this I'm seriously wondering how the Israelis treat the prisoners and also if they treat their own prisoners that way.

"If Bush says we hate freedom, let him tell us why we didn't attack Sweden, for example. OBL 29th oct
     
Posting Junkie
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: South of the Mason-Dixon line
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Aug 28, 2004, 11:12 AM
 
If the prisoners were asking for food, water, or medical care - I'd suggest they were being mistreated.

They're asking for an antenna, fruit knives, and refrigerators.


I'd say they're getting treated quite well based on the list of demands they're making.
     
Mac Elite
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: Denville, NJ.
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Aug 28, 2004, 11:24 AM
 
And the alternative to giving them all this stuff was what? To watch them starve themselves? Hmmm......
     
Posting Junkie
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Salamanca, España
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Aug 28, 2004, 11:27 AM
 
All this stuff is to weird to me. What was the point of a hunger strike with demands like those? Was this an attempt at a collective suicide?

(cool sig btw rambo47 !)
I could take Sean Connery in a fight... I could definitely take him.
     
Senior User
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: with stupid
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Aug 28, 2004, 05:40 PM
 
Israel (well cantral and northern) recive at least one snowfall per winter... average...

never gets much below zero... -1 -2 is unusually low, Celcius of course

if they go outside in the winter yes jackets are required however they are provided it in some way or another I think they are asking for some "nice" winter jackets although cant be sure as you said with the translation.
     
Mac Elite
Join Date: Apr 2001
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Aug 29, 2004, 04:40 AM
 
I think the hungerstrike was a PR-stunt to draw attention to the IsraelvsPalestine-conflict, that is going under in the media thanks to the Iraq-war and US-election-campaigns.

The only reasonable demands are imho, the abolishment of naked strip-searches, which are pretty evil for muslims. They could use instead metal-detectors or even x-rays-systems.

The other legitimate demand is for more allowed visits through family-members, without dividing windows. They could even use microphones and cameras to ensure that they don't give any crucial informations out. Besides how should they direct retaliation-acts from inside a prison. The resistance-groups don't need the prisoners for that activity, it's not brain-surgery.

Taliesin
     
Baninated
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Capital of the World
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Aug 29, 2004, 05:36 AM
 
Originally posted by Taliesin:
Besides how should they direct retaliation-acts from inside a prison. The resistance-groups don't need the prisoners for that activity, it's not brain-surgery.
Apparently it is brain surgery for the palestinians, seeing that terror attacks are way down, and some of their terror leaders are in prison. Of course some of these same leaders would give orders even from behind bars. To suggest otherwise would be ridiculous, unrealistic and plain foolish. You would make a horrible warden, and you'd probably get the boot after a half-day on the job.

As for the hunger strike, I'm not surprised that these cowardly criminals did not have the courage to follow through on what they claimed they were going to do. All talk, no action, just hot air, and lies. Since the fence came into place, they're having a hard time making the news by blowing people up, so I suppose they figured they might as well have a hunger strike hoax to get some PR.
     
Senior User
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: with stupid
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Aug 30, 2004, 07:47 PM
 
Originally posted by Taliesin:
I think the hungerstrike was a PR-stunt to draw attention to the IsraelvsPalestine-conflict, that is going under in the media thanks to the Iraq-war and US-election-campaigns.

The only reasonable demands are imho, the abolishment of naked strip-searches, which are pretty evil for muslims. They could use instead metal-detectors or even x-rays-systems.

The other legitimate demand is for more allowed visits through family-members, without dividing windows. They could even use microphones and cameras to ensure that they don't give any crucial informations out. Besides how should they direct retaliation-acts from inside a prison. The resistance-groups don't need the prisoners for that activity, it's not brain-surgery.

Taliesin
however with a lack of barier (unless extensive searches were done on visitors they would be able to slip things to the prisoners... many dangerous posibilities.
     
Baninated
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: The Moon
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Aug 30, 2004, 08:29 PM
 
Originally posted by rambo47:
And the alternative to giving them all this stuff was what? To watch them starve themselves? Hmmm......
Heh
     
Moderator
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Up In The Air
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Aug 30, 2004, 08:39 PM
 
Originally posted by rambo47:
And the alternative to giving them all this stuff was what? To watch them starve themselves? Hmmm......
Actually, the Israeli guards forcibly hydrated and fed them so they wouldn't endanger themselves.

But the prisoners really had enough when they saw Marwan Barghouti stuffing his face while asking everyone else to starve.
If this post is in the Lounge forum, it is likely to be my own opinion, and not representative of the position of MacNN.com.

     
   
Thread Tools
Forum Links
Forum Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On
Top
Privacy Policy
All times are GMT -5. The time now is 10:42 PM.
All contents of these forums © 1995-2011 MacNN. All rights reserved.
Branding + Design: www.gesamtbild.com
vBulletin v.3.8.7 © 2000-2011, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd., Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.3.2