[Monique]

This week in France all young women will have to follow the new law which prohibit the hijab (sorry for the spelling) (head scraf) I agree if you want to practice your religion do it at home, at your place of worship, in the streets but school should be devoid of all religious practices and the head scarf for Muslim women is a clear sign of their religious belief (which is for me submission to men and now they have to follow the directives of the man in charge of them; he tells them to jump and they ask how high). The government is right in intervening in this case. Schools are made to learn about writing, reading, math etc. not imposing your religious beliefs on others.

What do you think??

[phoenixboy70]

i think it's lame that two men might have to die for this.

[Logic]

Originally posted by Monique:
.......hijab (sorry for the spelling)........

correct spelling

(head scraf)

What do you think??

I think the ban is pointless, counterproductive, discriminatory and idiotic.

[placebo1969]

Prediction:
At least 3 pages of posts by day end.

[PacHead]

If they don't like it, they can move back to whichever oppresive country they came from.

[PacHead]

Originally posted by phoenixboy70:
i think it's lame that two men might have to die for this.

Tell that to the lamers who are going to kill them.

[phoenixboy70]

Originally posted by PacHead:
Tell that to the lamers who are going to kill them.

true.

the more i think about this, the more ridiculous it becomes.

they are going to kill two totally innocent people so girls can wear butt ugly headscarfs in french schools.

now, if they had banned armani suits or diesel jeans otoh...

[Timo]

I personally don't agree with the ban.

However, I'm not French, I'm American, and this country is generally more tolerant about cultural and religious expression of its citizens.

What most folks don't understand is that the French Republic is decidedly, specifically and even venomously secular. Has been since 1789. The French State doesn't just co-exist with religion, it has a hand in its expression. This is so unlike the U.S., U.K., Germany, etc. that it's a little hard for outsiders to get. The French Republic has engaged, for many years, in leveling their populace: stamping out cultural expression inconsistent with what Paris thinks is France. In the past this was exemplified by restricting the teachings of native languages other than French, or the expropriation of e.g. Catholic properties. Today, this tendency is expressed via bans on the display of religious affiliations.

Part of the problem in France with its large Muslim minorty (the largest in Europe, I understand) is that there has not been a formal mechanism for a dialogue between Muslim leaders and the State, as there is between Catholic, Jewish and Protestant leaders. There is no mechanism -- and this has led to predictable extremism on both sides. There needs to be a discussion about this ban, but there isn't even a forum for it!

The French State should get smart about these citizens...but remember, the French State expects a degree of duty from its citizens. In return, French citizens expect and get more from their State. It's not an easy situation to just opt out of.

[itai195]

I agree with this ban as a short term measure to stem religious violence, but I hope the French government doesn't see this as a panacea. This solution won't solve all of France's issues dealing with immigrants.

[phoenixboy70]

Originally posted by itai195:
I agree with this ban as a short term measure to stem religious violence, but I hope the French government doesn't see this as a panacea. It's not a long term fix.

it's not a fix at all. i know quite a few muslim women who don't wear the damn thing, it's not that much of a deal (to them at least).

just don't wear it in school, mmmkay? where's the problem?

[Monique]

Exactly why is it such a big deal not to wear it in school; nobody is telling them not to practice their religion elsewhere. If they do not want to be a part of French society they should not have move there. It is like me I want to move to England so I will be speaking English at work and elsewhere in society but I still will be speaking French when I get home.

[TETENAL]

Originally posted by Monique:
Exactly why is it such a big deal not to wear it in school; nobody is telling them not to practice their religion elsewhere. If they do not want to be a part of French society they should not have move there.

There are Muslims that live in France that were born in France. Especially with school girls I would assume that is the majority even.

[voodoo]

While I agree with the ban on religious item in French public schools, it has been pointed out to me by muslims that I know that the scarf or hijab isn't a religious symbol itself, but rather a suggestion in the Koran for muslim women to be modest and cover their hair.

Still it is obvious that some muslims do think that it is very important for muslim women to wear a hijab to show their faith and that prohibiting them is preventing them from expressing their faith.

Nevertheless the French govt. considers the hijab to be a faith symbol and ban it as such. Alternatively it would have been considered a gang symbol which is also banned (already) in French public schools. So no matter how you slice it or dice it, crosses, hijabs, crescent moons, gang colors, gang symbols, etc etc are not welcome in French public schools, and I don't see anything wrong with that. No one group of people is being harassed, rather all are receiving the same treatment from the state. A good thing in most cases.

That is why I agree with this French law and I hope the students and *parents* will respect it. After all kids of any color, religion or culture are more interested in learning, playing and having a wild time rather than thinking about religion or dogmas.

Finally a bit off topic, the hijab has had most of the attention in this discussion and perhaps deservedly so since the French laws in question were formed a lot in response to a challenge by the muslim community in France to the state and I'd like to point out that unless there is another way a woman shows respect to God than a man there is no need for a hijab. It is rather obviously gender discriminate since it is traditionally only worn by women. This is nothing in direct relation to the French law, rather a criticism of the use of the hijab. If muslim men would traditionally wear a hijab as is expected of muslim women then I wouldn't be mentioning this. In the western world women were once expected to wear dresses and skirts for much the same reasons muslim women are still expected to wear hijab. Think about that.