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typoon · Aug 31, 2004, 01:59 PM

Looks like the terrorists are holding 2 Frenchmen and are demanding France rescind the ban on head scarfs. What are the French going to do?

http://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/europe...ges/index.html

PacHead · Aug 31, 2004, 02:05 PM

They're probably busy trying to surrender, but to who ?

Millennium · Aug 31, 2004, 02:25 PM

It would seem that they have no intention of dropping the ban.

I find this turn of events fascinating, to be honest. There is hypocrisy on all sides, and I'm not even talking about "appeasement" or anything like that. The banning of headscarves goes directly against the idea of a secular state in the first place (as a direct attack on freedom of religion). But we're all aware that the ones taking hostages are acting very un-Islamic despite their claims to be defending Islam.

It seems we're stuck in a no-win situation. France could simply Do The Right Thing and lift the ban, but the terrorists have now attached themselves to that. Doing it now will only encourage them, and there will be more kidnappings and attacks the next time they want something. This has been more than adequately shown by their past pattern of behavior.

This is not an acceptable situation.

Logic · Aug 31, 2004, 02:56 PM

Originally posted by Millennium:
It would seem that they have no intention of dropping the ban.

I find this turn of events fascinating, to be honest. There is hypocrisy on all sides, and I'm not even talking about "appeasement" or anything like that. The banning of headscarves goes directly against the idea of a secular state in the first place (as a direct attack on freedom of religion). But we're all aware that the ones taking hostages are acting very un-Islamic despite their claims to be defending Islam.

It seems we're stuck in a no-win situation. France could simply Do The Right Thing and lift the ban, but the terrorists have now attached themselves to that. Doing it now will only encourage them, and there will be more kidnappings and attacks the next time they want something. This has been more than adequately shown by their past pattern of behavior.

This is not an acceptable situation.

PacHead · Aug 31, 2004, 02:56 PM

France is asking for this. Their best reply to the scum who kidnap, would be to send French troops into Iraq. They can't complain one bit, when they are doing absolutely nothing to erradicate the terrorists.

This also proves the silly notion wrong that terrorists will only go after Americans or whatever. Anybody is a target, including Frenchmen. These terrorist animals will kill anybody for whatever reason.

The kidnappings of these French people doesn't surprise me one bit. Expect many more in the future.

villalobos · Aug 31, 2004, 03:54 PM

Originally posted by PacHead:
France is asking for this. Their best reply to the scum who kidnap, would be to send French troops into Iraq. They can't complain one bit, when they are doing absolutely nothing to erradicate the terrorists.

This also proves the silly notion wrong that terrorists will only go after Americans or whatever. Anybody is a target, including Frenchmen. These terrorist animals will kill anybody for whatever reason.

The kidnappings of these French people doesn't surprise me one bit. Expect many more in the future.

Because we know that the war on Iraq had everything to do with the war against islamists terrorists, don't we? Dude, you are still coming up with that excuse when Bush himself said that his main intention was to free Iraq from a dictator?..... and incidentally made of Iraq the new hip and cool breeding ground for more islamist terrorists. France did not decide not to go to war because it was afraid of terrorism, but rather because there were no compelling reasons to do so, as we can all see now.

You guys have no consistency whatsoever in your 'thinking' and will say whatever to bash France.

You people amuse me.

PacHead · Aug 31, 2004, 03:56 PM

Originally posted by villalobos:

You people amuse me.

I'm sure you'll be as amused when you see plenty more french hostages paraded on al-jazeera.

villalobos · Aug 31, 2004, 03:57 PM

Originally posted by PacHead:
I'm sure you'll be as amused when you see plenty more french hostages paraded on al-jazeera.

Probably not, but then I'll still be able to come here and read your comments to put a smile on my face.

You da man.

PacHead · Aug 31, 2004, 04:00 PM

Originally posted by villalobos:
You da man.

I usually disagree 100% with whatever certain leftists or europeans spew, but in this case who am I to argue ?

villalobos · Aug 31, 2004, 04:02 PM

Originally posted by PacHead:
I usually disagree 100% with whatever certain leftists or europeans spew, but in this case who am I to argue ?

that's right, do not go to webster.com and do not read the definition of sarcasm. i repeat, do not.

deedar · Aug 31, 2004, 04:22 PM

Originally posted by villalobos:
France did not decide not to go to war because it was afraid of terrorism, but rather because there were no compelling reasons to do so, as we can all see now.

Yeah, but why let this stop them!!! Sissies!!!!!!

spacefreak · Aug 31, 2004, 05:28 PM

Originally posted by villalobos:
France did not decide not to go to war because it was afraid of terrorism, but rather because there were no compelling reasons to do so, as we can all see now.

Nevermind the billions in illegal, behind-the-UN's-back French-Iraq oil contracts that were discovered once Saddam was tossed out that are now rendered worthless, or the crates of French helicopter repair kits and other illegal military supplies that were discovered.

"No compelling reasons" to boot Saddam from power? Man, you are way out there.

angaq0k · Aug 31, 2004, 05:37 PM

Originally posted by spacefreak:
Nevermind the billions in illegal, behind-the-UN's-back French-Iraq oil contracts that were discovered once Saddam was tossed out that are now rendered worthless, or the crates of French helicopter repair kits and other illegal military supplies that were discovered.

"No compelling reasons" to boot Saddam from power? Man, you are way out there.

You still have no proof.

Get them.

SimeyTheLimey · Aug 31, 2004, 05:46 PM

Originally posted by typoon:
Looks like the terrorists are holding 2 Frenchmen and are demanding France rescind the ban on head scarfs. What are the French going to do?

http://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/europe...ges/index.html

I imagine this has come as a bit of a shock to France. Opposing the liberation of Iraq hasn't inocculated them. However, I hope and trust that they can tough it out and that they will not back down to terrorist blackmail. My heart also goes out to the familes as well as (obviously) the hostages. Let's hope they are freed without giving in to terrorism.

Troll · Aug 31, 2004, 06:01 PM

I bet they get released. Everyone in the Arab world, including Arafat and even Hamas is calling for their release.

France has always been the US biggest ally in the War on Terror and the French government has done more than any other to avert terrorist attacks. They are still considered the best when it comes to dealing with Islamic terrorism and they have shared valuable intelligence. You may recall over a year ago that a busload of French workers were killed in a car bombing of a bus in Pakistan, so this is not the first time since 9/11 that they have been targeted, or even the first time since their opposition to Iraq. Their opposition to the war in Iraq had nothing to do with flagging commitment to the war on terror because the invasion of Iraq had nothing to do with terrorism

angaq0k · Aug 31, 2004, 06:05 PM

Originally posted by SimeyTheLimey:
I imagine this has come as a bit of a shock to France. Opposing the liberation of Iraq hasn't inocculated them.

I completly disagree with you, especially that this opinion of yours seems to hint that the French felt protected from any such situation.

France has been dealing with Islamic terrorism since the late 1800s when they set foot in Algeria. The following decades have always been a struggle, until the sixties, at which point they had no choice but leave Algeria to itself.

That was exactly what Chirac tried to explain to Bush. Why in Hell do you think they tried to prevent the invasion of Iraq?

This is not much different than during the Cold War when the Europeans were concerned for their well-being, the European continent being stuck between the 2 superpowers, legitimately under the threat of becoming a battle ground for a war that did not concern any of them.

However, I hope and trust that they can tough it out and that they will not back down to terrorist blackmail. My heart also goes out to the familes as well as (obviously) the hostages. Let's hope they are freed without giving in to terrorism.

Your hope conveys a very patronizing attitude which I think is despicable, as if France is a "weak" state. I certain France will react appropriately, according to their values, and that is certainly none of America's business.

If you intend to suicide by excess of your own patriotism, that is your business, but make sure that the blood will not spill on your allies...

PacHead · Aug 31, 2004, 06:10 PM

Originally posted by angaq0k:
I certain France will react appropriately, according to their values, and that is certainly none of America's business.

When America chose to react appropriately, according to our values, those French just had to butt their big noses into our business. Kinda funny, heh ?

PacHead · Aug 31, 2004, 06:13 PM

Originally posted by Troll:
I bet they get released. Everyone in the Arab world, including Arafat and even Hamas is calling for their release.

Oh great, murderers and terrorists calling for the release of a couple of people by another terrorist group. How many did Hamas kill today ? Who cares what they say ? Soon hamas, arafat and those groups in Iraq will all meet the same fate.

villalobos · Aug 31, 2004, 10:47 PM

Originally posted by spacefreak:
Nevermind the billions in illegal, behind-the-UN's-back French-Iraq oil contracts that were discovered once Saddam was tossed out that are now rendered worthless, or the crates of French helicopter repair kits and other illegal military supplies that were discovered.

"No compelling reasons" to boot Saddam from power? Man, you are way out there.

As I said, there is nothing compelling in what you just mentionned : besides half of it seems to come from your wild imagination. But don't make me stop you believing the propaganda of the Bushies and Faux News.

villalobos · Aug 31, 2004, 10:54 PM

I know this has been corrected already, but I would like to emphasize that France (amongst others) has been dealing with Islamist terrorism for a MUCH longer time than the US. I know it might come up as a shock to the great US of A but there was terrorism before 9/11.....
Once again, you are wrong thinking that France did not participate in the invasion of Iraq for fear of terrorism. France is still widely involved in the hunt for Al Qaida members in Afghanistan, but of course our Bush apologist friends here choose to ignore it and would rather slam the cheese eating surrendering monkeys....

Ah the bliss of ignorance. Sometimes I wish I could as simple minded as some here : it would prevent me of having to think and would make my life so much nicer and more serene.

You know what, you people amuse me.

villalobos · Aug 31, 2004, 10:56 PM

Originally posted by PacHead:
When America chose to react appropriately, according to our values, those French just had to butt their big noses into our business. Kinda funny, heh ?

So invading a thirld world country who never attacked you, killing a few thousand people in the mean time is representative of the US of A values. I sense the Founding Fathers would be really proud of that ideology. Really.

Spliffdaddy · Aug 31, 2004, 11:10 PM

I recall the US 'invading' a french-world country that never attacked us - 60 years ago - and *that* certainly hasn't been a rewarding experience - so you may have a point.

Troll · Sep 1, 2004, 04:20 AM

Originally posted by Spliffdaddy:
I recall the US 'invading' a french-world country that never attacked us - 60 years ago - and *that* certainly hasn't been a rewarding experience - so you may have a point.

Yes, you guys never learn from other people's mistakes. No wonder the Europeans think the US is a pre-pubescent country. Always insist on making the same mistakes they did. France screws up in Indochina, let's do the same thing, France discovers that you can't beat the Arabs into submission, let's give it a try ourselves ...

badidea · Sep 1, 2004, 06:04 AM

Originally posted by Spliffdaddy:
I recall the US 'invading' a french-world country that never attacked us - 60 years ago - and *that* certainly hasn't been a rewarding experience - so you may have a point.

What are you talking about?

I recall the US, UK and Canada 'invading' a german-world country that certainly has attacked you (remember submarines near the US coast...) and *that* has been rewarded countless times (maybe you also recall the celebrations this year?).....oh, well, you probably haven't been rewarded in the last ten minutes...