Welcome to the MacNN Forums.

ringo · Sep 8, 2004, 07:09 PM

OK, just curious about how many of the political lounge players are old enough, eligible, and registered to vote in the 2004 election. I post out of curiosity, and becuase the views on both sides sometimes seem to come from a broader range of ages than I expected.

Answer away...or lie like crazy because this is an internet poll and no one will know any better anyway.

For the record, I am a registered voter and plan to vote in 2004.

Cody Dawg · Sep 8, 2004, 07:50 PM

Registered Republican here.

(Compassionate conservative, tho

)

RAILhead · Sep 8, 2004, 08:19 PM

I've been voting since 1992, myself.

E's Lil Theorem · Sep 9, 2004, 01:47 AM

I'm registered and will be voting on a Presidential election for the first time. I was old enough in 2000, but I wasn't a citizen yet.

Interesting side note: Guess when I became a citizen? September 11, 2001

Krusty · Sep 9, 2004, 02:12 AM

Have been a registered Independent since I was 18 (16 yrs ago now). First voted in 1988.

SimeyTheLimey · Sep 9, 2004, 05:47 AM

I'm registered. Virginia doesn't have party registration. The first election I voted in was in 1986, and its the only vote I regret. I voted for Alan Keyes without knowing much about him. In my defense, I was voting against Barbera Mikulsky, and to "win one last one for the Gipper."

So far all my votes have been for Republicans with one exception. I voted for DC Mayor Anthony Williams over a Republican challenger. He deserved another term.

Randman · Sep 9, 2004, 05:51 AM

Going to cast my vote next month (working abroad).

placebo1969 · Sep 9, 2004, 06:09 AM

First voted in the 1988 Presidential one. Washington state doesn't require party registration. But this year both parties challenged that so now we have to pick a party for the upcoming Primary.

But we still won't register for a party and can vote for whomever in the General election in November.

lurkalot · Sep 9, 2004, 06:23 AM

Rudy Giuliani stated in his Republican convention speech that New York is the capital of the world but if that is the case then I will be one of the several billion world citizens waiting in vain for an absentee ballot that will give me a vote in an election for a Government that has a seat there.

Which is a little disconcerting, I guess, when some American citizens appear to think that the world outside the continental U.S. borders is little else than a battlefield were the wars are waged to keep Americans safe but anyway other threads for that discussion...

Voting rights still primarily on birth right. Revolutions were started over details like that. I would welcome some sort of world government with a system that would give me some sort of a vote in decisions like that beyond the vote for "my" national Government that are then largely ignored in current U.S. decision making processes. I did vote in every election for which I am eligible this year and have been voting for several years before 2004.

My -slightly modified- vote in this poll:

"I am old enough to vote in the 2004 U.S. Presidential election, but am unable to register due to nationality."

SimeyTheLimey · Sep 9, 2004, 07:24 AM

Originally posted by lurkalot:
Rudy Giuliani stated in his Republican convention speech that New York is the capital of the world but if that is the case then I will be one of the several billion world citizens waiting in vain for an absentee ballot that will give me a vote in an election for a Government that has a seat there.

Which is a little disconcerting, I guess, when some American citizens appear to think that the world outside the continental U.S. borders is little else than a battlefield were the wars are waged to keep Americans safe but anyway other threads for that discussion...

Voting rights still primarily on birth right. Revolutions were started over details like that. I would welcome some sort of world government with a system that would give me some sort of a vote in decisions like that beyond the vote for "my" national Government that are then largely ignored in current U.S. decision making processes. I did vote in every election for which I am eligible this year and have been voting for several years before 2004.

My -slightly modified- vote in this poll:

"I am old enough to vote in the 2004 U.S. Presidential election, but am unable to register due to nationality."

Presumably Americans can't vote in your country's elections either.

lurkalot · Sep 9, 2004, 08:15 AM

Originally posted by SimeyTheLimey:
Presumably Americans can't vote in your country's elections either.

You're right, they can't at the moment, not directly anyway, but I would have no objection to creating a global system where they could.

There is no question though that there is an American/foreign influence without representation from the people directly affected in many areas of the world already. The example of fighting war on foreign soil, I cited based on some commentary here and the actions of the current U.S. administration, is just one of the more extreme situations.

Preserving national sovereignty and state borders is not a priority in my ideas about a better future. How that would work in detail is another question. A vastly improved U.N. would probably have to figure in there somehow but only with an emphasis on "United" and a not on "Nations".

SimeyTheLimey · Sep 9, 2004, 08:33 AM

Originally posted by lurkalot:
You're right, they can't at the moment, not directly anyway, but I would have no objection to creating a global system where they could.

There is no question though that there is an American/foreign influence without representation from the people directly affected in many areas of the world already. The example of fighting war on foreign soil, I cited based on some commentary here and the actions of the current U.S. administration, is just one of the more extreme situations.

Preserving national sovereignty and state borders is not a priority in my ideas about a better future. How that would work in detail is another question. A vastly improved U.N. would probably have to figure in there somehow but only with an emphasis on "United" and a not on "Nations".

I profoundly disagree with this. The more remote you make a government, the less democratically acountable it is. Individual votes become diluted, and you rely more and more on the permanent beauracracy of government. What you will create with a world government is simply a permanent oligarchy that will not be accountable to the people, only to themselves, and their interests.

The UN is a good example of just how unrepresentative such a world government would be. Most of the members of the UN haven't even mastered democracy in their domestic politics. How anyone thinks that such a corrupt group ought to be running the world is beyond me.

You don't list your location. Presuming you live in a democracy, you have a way to make your voice heard, and that is through your national representatives, and your own government.

lurkalot · Sep 9, 2004, 08:46 AM

Originally posted by SimeyTheLimey:
I profoundly disagree with this. The more remote you make a government, the less democratically acountable it is. Individual votes become diluted, and you rely more and more on the permanent beauracracy of government. What you will create with a world government is simply a permanent oligarchy that will not be accountable to the people, only to themselves, and their interests.

The UN is a good example of just how unrepresentative such a world government would be. Most of the members of the UN haven't even mastered democracy in their domestic politics. How anyone thinks that such a corrupt group ought to be running the world is beyond me.

You don't list your location. Presuming you live in a democracy, you have a way to make your voice heard, and that is through your national representatives, and your own government.

I'm not surprised you disagree with this but right now I already live in such a situation where I am at the mercy of the U.S. elections and U.S. foreign policy without representation. How could that be worse than improving the U.N. to a better organization where at least some influence of my vote will be exercised?

SimeyTheLimey · Sep 9, 2004, 09:00 AM

Originally posted by lurkalot:
I'm not surprised you disagree with this but right now I already live in such a situation where I am at the mercy of the U.S. elections and U.S. foreign policy without representation. How could that be worse than improving the U.N. to a better organization where at least some influence of my vote will be exercised?

You have representation, and you have a voice. You have a sovereign government. It isn't any more powerful or influential because of the UN, and governments were dealing with each other long before the UN was created.

MindFad · Sep 9, 2004, 09:09 AM

Registered independent since I was 18. Voting this year fo' serious.

lurkalot · Sep 9, 2004, 09:12 AM

Originally posted by SimeyTheLimey:
You have representation, and you have a voice. You have a sovereign government. It isn't any more powerful or influential because of the UN, and governments were dealing with each other long before the UN was created.

Not in my opinion. The United States has a disproportionate influence in the world and my life which is beyond my control. I would like to see that changed. Preferably through a form of world democracy. The U.N. is far from perfect but an improved U.N. would be a step in the right direction. IMO. That's all I was saying. I'm not a conservative. The way nations dealt with each other and "their" subjects/citizens should serve mostly as a warning not as guidance, As far as I'm concerned.

Randman · Sep 9, 2004, 09:18 AM

What country are you lurk? Sounds like you have a chip on your shoulder. Have you been to the US?

SimeyTheLimey · Sep 9, 2004, 09:20 AM

Originally posted by lurkalot:
Not in my opinion. The United States has a disproportionate influence in the world and my life which is beyond my control. I would like to see that changed. Preferably through a form of world democracy. The U.N. is far from perfect but an improved U.N. would be a step in the right direction. IMO. That's all I was saying. I'm not a conservative. The way nations dealt with each other and "their" subjects/citizens should serve mostly as a warning not as guidance, As far as I'm concerned.

It's not our fault that your country is weak and it isn't our responsibility to come down to your level or to create the means for you to make up for your relative weakness.

Instead of whining that the US is too powerful, you should use your vote to make your country more powerful. If you want a counterweight to the US, make one. But don't expect us to weaken our representative government to do it for you.

djohnson · Sep 9, 2004, 09:22 AM

Originally posted by lurkalot:
Not in my opinion. The United States has a disproportionate influence in the world and my life which is beyond my control. I would like to see that changed. Preferably through a form of world democracy. The U.N. is far from perfect but an improved U.N. would be a step in the right direction. IMO. That's all I was saying. I'm not a conservative. The way nations dealt with each other and "their" subjects/citizens should serve mostly as a warning not as guidance, As far as I'm concerned.

Sounds a lot like a one world government.

vmarks · Sep 9, 2004, 09:25 AM

Originally posted by placebo1969:
First voted in the 1988 Presidential one. Washington state doesn't require party registration. But this year both parties challenged that so now we have to pick a party for the upcoming Primary. But we still won't register for a party and can vote for whomever in the General election in November.

This sounds like bi-partisanship to me- shamefully, though. Take a look at your ballot access laws to see if only Republicans and Democrats are allowed on the ballot, and if not, what hurdles another party's candidate must go through to be listed on the ballot. And then ask why the parties are so afraid of losing power that they must restrict your choices.

lurkalot · Sep 9, 2004, 09:29 AM

Originally posted by Randman:
What country are you lurk? Sounds like you have a chip on your shoulder. Have you been to the US?

It doesn't matter where I'm from or where I live/lived. I would like a more equal representation for the rest of the planet. How is that a chip on my shoulder? Is New York the capital of the world? If so it isn't the capital of a democratic world.

Randman · Sep 9, 2004, 09:43 AM

Originally posted by lurkalot:
It doesn't matter where I'm from or where I live/lived. I would like a more equal representation for the rest of the planet. How is that a chip on my shoulder? Is New York the capital of the world? If so it isn't the capital of a democratic world.

You either sound like a very young kid, or someone with a chip on their shoulder. But if you can't answer a simple question that would help to explain your view point, off to the ignore list you go.
Say good night Gracie.

Spliffdaddy · Sep 9, 2004, 09:46 AM

Originally posted by lurkalot:
It doesn't matter where I'm from or where I live/lived. I would like a more equal representation for the rest of the planet. How is that a chip on my shoulder? Is New York the capital of the world? If so it isn't the capital of a democratic world.

Oh, it matters where you're from and where you've lived.

We want to take note so we can avoid going there.

lurkalot · Sep 9, 2004, 09:46 AM

Originally posted by SimeyTheLimey:
It's not our fault that your country is weak and it isn't our responsibility to come down to your level or to create the means for you to make up for your relative weakness.

Instead of whining that the US is too powerful, you should use your vote to make your country more powerful. If you want a counterweight to the US, make one. But don't expect us to weaken our representative government to do it for you.

I have no interest in creating new adversarial systems on a global scale and don't care about nation states. All I want is a say in an election that decides who will ultimately be directing global policies that influence my life. Is that unreasonable?

lurkalot · Sep 9, 2004, 09:47 AM

Originally posted by djohnson:
Sounds a lot like a one world government.

Good. That's what it was meant to sound like. Literally.

lurkalot · Sep 9, 2004, 09:51 AM

Originally posted by Spliffdaddy:
Oh, it matters where you're from and where you've lived.

We want to take note so we can avoid going there.

I travel.

Does Spliffdaddy go places besides the MacNN boards or was that the elusive real person behind the act speaking this time?

SimeyTheLimey · Sep 9, 2004, 10:03 AM

Originally posted by lurkalot:
I have no interest in creating new adversarial systems on a global scale and don't care about nation states. All I want is a say in an election that decides who will ultimately be directing global policies that influence my life. Is that unreasonable?

Yes it is unreasonable. It's an American election. Only Americans get to vote. If you want to vote in it, move here and become an American.

Randman · Sep 9, 2004, 10:23 AM

Originally posted by lurkalot:
I travel.

The kitchen doesn't count.

Randman · Sep 9, 2004, 10:25 AM

Originally posted by SimeyTheLimey:
Yes it is unreasonable. It's an American election. Only Americans get to vote. If you want to vote in it, move here and become an American.

Better yet, move to Puerto Rico. You can still vote without bringing your idiocy to the States.

lurkalot · Sep 9, 2004, 10:25 AM

Originally posted by SimeyTheLimey:
Yes it is unreasonable. It's an American election. Only Americans get to vote. If you want to vote in it, move here and become an American.

That is exactly what I find unreasonable and what I objected to since the outcome influences my life no matter where I live. Not that I have the illusion that the situation will change anytime soon but I did want to point it out in this thread about the 2004 (U.S.) elections.

Randman · Sep 9, 2004, 10:28 AM

Originally posted by lurkalot:
That is exactly what I find unreasonable and what I objected to since the outcome influences my life no matter where I live. Not that I have the illusion that the situation will change anytime soon but I did want to point it out in this thread about the 2004 (U.S.) elections.

Sour grapes! Ha ha, you can't vote. You can't vote!

placebo1969 · Sep 9, 2004, 10:43 AM

Originally posted by vmarks:
This sounds like bi-partisanship to me- shamefully, though. Take a look at your ballot access laws to see if only Republicans and Democrats are allowed on the ballot, and if not, what hurdles another party's candidate must go through to be listed on the ballot. And then ask why the parties are so afraid of losing power that they must restrict your choices.

Libertarians are in the mix too. The legislature had written new rules that would have satisfied the court order, but the Governor vetoed part of it so this is what we have. He's not running, so we'll have a new governor and hopefully he or she will be able to work with the legislature to get a workable system.

SimeyTheLimey · Sep 9, 2004, 10:59 AM

Originally posted by lurkalot:
That is exactly what I find unreasonable and what I objected to since the outcome influences my life no matter where I live. Not that I have the illusion that the situation will change anytime soon but I did want to point it out in this thread about the 2004 (U.S.) elections.

Sounds like jealousy to me.

Don't worry, I'll vote for you.

Spliffdaddy · Sep 9, 2004, 11:08 AM

we got yer back.

lurkalot · Sep 9, 2004, 11:18 AM

Originally posted by SimeyTheLimey:
Sounds like jealousy to me.

Don't worry, I'll vote for you.

Of course it is. Jealousy, envy call it what you want. I would like to have a vote in elections that influence me but in this case I don't, while you do. That sounds pretty straightforward to me.

I think the U.S. is a democracy (Republic) only on a domestic level and not on the global stage and I don't like it. The U.S. is certainly not alone in that so changes are needed in other places as well.

There are people with a vote in the United States whose opinions are repugnant to almost all reasonable people. I'm sure you can think of examples of your own. The same is true for certain countries represented at the U.N.. That doesn't mean that the organization of the U.N. is useless anymore than that the U.S. election system is fatally flawed.

I'm trying as much as I can to make all Americans I know vote. Hope that doesn't backfire on me.

SimeyTheLimey · Sep 9, 2004, 11:23 AM

Originally posted by lurkalot:
Of course it is. Jealousy, envy call it what you want. I would like to have a vote in elections that influence me but in this case I don't, while you do. That sounds pretty straightforward to me.

I think the U.S. is a democracy (Republic) only on a domestic level and not on the global stage and I don't like it. The U.S. is certainly not alone in that so changes are needed in other places as well.

There are people with a vote in the United States whose opinions are repugnant to almost all reasonable people. I'm sure you can think of examples of your own. The same is true for certain countries represented at the U.N.. That doesn't mean that the organization of the U.N. is useless anymore than that the U.S. election system is fatally flawed.

I'm trying as much as I can to make all Americans I know vote. Hope that doesn't backfire on me.

I'd recommend you read a book by a well known Frenchman, Jacques Rousseau, who wrote The Social Contract. You aren't part of our polity. One of the basic freedoms that makes democracy possible is allowing people to be a part of different polities. We don't necessarily want to live our lives according to your standards. This country was established to escape foreign domination and control. So we vote for our government, which we set up according to our social contract, and you can live your life according to your social contract with your country. A world with one government would be a less free world because it would erase that choice.

djohnson · Sep 9, 2004, 11:39 AM

Originally posted by lurkalot:
That is exactly what I find unreasonable and what I objected to since the outcome influences my life no matter where I live. Not that I have the illusion that the situation will change anytime soon but I did want to point it out in this thread about the 2004 (U.S.) elections.

HA HA HA HA HA HA

You want a vote in the US but are not an American citizen? Here is what you need:

Oh wait, can I get a chance to change to policy in your country as well?

ringo · Sep 9, 2004, 04:06 PM

Originally posted by lurkalot:
Not in my opinion. The United States has a disproportionate influence in the world and my life which is beyond my control. I would like to see that changed. Preferably through a form of world democracy.

If you live in a country with a representative form of government, you can have some influence by voting for national leadership that will refuse to do business with the US. It's kind of a long shot, but a more realistic goal than the formation of a one-world-government.

Zimphire · Sep 9, 2004, 05:35 PM

Originally posted by RAILhead:
I've been voting since 1992, myself.

I've been able to since 91, but didn't start till the 92 elections.

Jansar · Sep 9, 2004, 06:02 PM

This will be the first time for me.

FOUR MORE YEARS!

Joshua · Sep 9, 2004, 06:05 PM

Originally posted by lurkalot:
That is exactly what I find unreasonable and what I objected to since the outcome influences my life no matter where I live. Not that I have the illusion that the situation will change anytime soon but I did want to point it out in this thread about the 2004 (U.S.) elections.

So you're offering to pay taxes too, right? And register Selective Service? Submit to U.S. jurisdiction in legal issues? Going to fly across the pond to serve jury duty?

itai195 · Sep 9, 2004, 06:11 PM

2nd presidential election I'll vote in, hopefully with a better outcome this time

MindFad · Sep 9, 2004, 06:12 PM

Originally posted by Jansar:
FOUR MORE YEARS OF HELL!

lol

Zimphire · Sep 9, 2004, 06:22 PM

Was that really worth laughing at loud?

Come on...

You must be high.

Jansar · Sep 9, 2004, 06:36 PM

Originally posted by MindFad:
lol

Get ready to put up with "hell" then, because Kerry's going to be sucking on ketchup for at least four more years.

DeathToWindows · Sep 10, 2004, 10:04 PM

Registered Democrat voting for the 1st time in November.

OldManMac · Sep 10, 2004, 10:28 PM

Indenpendent, who's voted in every election since 1968.

Spliffdaddy · Sep 10, 2004, 10:33 PM

Republican

And I've been cancelling-out his ^ vote since 1986.

OldManMac · Sep 10, 2004, 10:35 PM

Originally posted by Spliffdaddy:
Republican

And I've been cancelling-out his ^ vote since 1986.

You don't know that for a fact.

Spliffdaddy · Sep 10, 2004, 10:37 PM

This year I'm going to sit home on election day.

I trust my fellow Americans to do the right thing.

It's all up to you.

Surprise me.