[Atomic Rooster]

Contrary to all the Bush administration electoral spin being bandied about.

What kind of place does "GLOOM" conjure up?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/3664136.stm

[zigzag]

http://www.cnn.com/2004/US/09/16/us.iraq.ap/

From Republican senators:

"It's beyond pitiful, it's beyond embarrassing, it's now in the zone of dangerous," said Sen. Chuck Hagel, R-Nebraska, referring to figures showing only about 6 percent of the reconstruction money approved by Congress last year has been spent.

. . . Hagel said the shift in funds "does not add up in my opinion to a pretty picture, to a picture that shows that we're winning. But it does add up to this: an acknowledgment that we are in deep trouble."

"Our committee heard blindly optimistic people from the administration prior to the war and people outside the administration -- what I call the 'dancing in the street crowd,' that we just simply will be greeted with open arms," Lugar said. "The nonsense of all of that is apparent. The lack of planning is apparent."

[CRASH HARDDRIVE]

Cute detail that BBC report left out:

The intelligence estimate, which was prepared for Bush, considered the window of time between July and the end of 2005. But the official noted that the document draws on intelligence community assessments from January 2003, before the U.S.-led invasion of Iraq and the subsequent deteriorating security situation there.

http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/i...-us-iraq_x.htm

In other words, the hope of gloom and doom that the usual suspects will salivate over in this report, is based on completely obsolete intel.

[zigzag]

Originally posted by CRASH HARDDRIVE:
Cute detail that BBC report left out:

In other words, the hope of gloom and doom that the usual suspects will salivate over in this report, is based on completely obsolete intel.

Which, based on events since then, would lead a rational observer to conclude that things are even worse than the report anticipated.

Or are you going to tell us that Hager and Lugar are "the usual suspects"?

[CRASH HARDDRIVE]

Originally posted by zigzag:
Which, based on events since then, would lead a rational observer to conclude that things are even worse than the report anticipated.

LOL! So it's even worse than civil war? Says who? Your statement makes no sense. A rational person would base the situation in Iraq on current intelligence, not intel from before the invasion. And that would include the good (that those against the war always leave out) along with the bad. But by all means, don't let anything spoil your obvious wish for gloom and doom.

Or are you going to tell us that Hager and Lugar are "the usual suspects"? [/B]

Usually you have better reading comprehension than this. Hager and Lugar don't even seem to be commenting on the report, rather they are upset over a shift in reconstruction funds.

[tie]

Originally posted by CRASH HARDDRIVE:
In other words, the hope of gloom and doom that the usual suspects will salivate over in this report, is based on completely obsolete intel.

I am not sure you are right, it can be interpreted in different ways. Could also be a typo, January 2003 makes less sense than January 2004.

Bush's current plan for Iraq is to do as little as possible in the hopes of keeping it from influencing the election. It is pretty disgusting that he is still lying about Iraq -- in this case, not accurately representing the intelligence he has been receiving.

[zigzag]

Originally posted by CRASH HARDDRIVE:
LOL! So it's even worse than civil war? Says who? Your statement makes no sense. A rational person would base the situation in Iraq on current intelligence, not intel from before the invasion. And that would include the good (that those against the war always leave out) along with the bad. But by all means, don't let anything spoil your obvious wish for gloom and doom.

The report suggests a range of possibilities, most of them pessimistic. You dismissed it as being based on obsolete intelligence. If you believe that current intelligence would reflect better on the situation, then yes, you would be correct. Let us know when you get back to earth.

Usually you have better reading comprehension than this. Hager and Lugar don't even seem to be commenting on the report, rather they are upset over a shift in reconstruction funds.

My reading comprehension is fine. The Senators were obviously speaking to the fact that the funding issue is symptomatic of much larger, and very serious, problems. Senator Lugar's reference to the "dancing in the street crowd" and to "nonsense," and Senator Hagel's statement that "we're in deep trouble," were obviously not directed solely to the funding issue.

Rather than play games, would you care to address the substance of the article, and the Senators' comments? Thanks.

[spacefreak]

So nice for this report based on pre-2003 info to come out now.

Did any one catch the new report that predicts the Arizona Diamonbacks will win the 2001 World Series?

[zigzag]

Originally posted by spacefreak:
So nice for this report based on pre-2003 info to come out now.

Did any one catch the new report that predicts the Arizona Diamonbacks will win the 2001 World Series?

It's a National Intelligence Estimate, only two months old, prepared specifically for the President, and approved by John McGlaughlin, his interim appointee to the CIA.

[zigzag]

It appears that it will take genuine Republican leaders to get the President to tell the truth about about Iraq:

http://www.cnn.com/2004/ALLPOLITICS/...ors/index.html

[Zimphire]

Originally posted by spacefreak:
So nice for this report based on pre-2003 info to come out now.

Did any one catch the new report that predicts the Arizona Diamonbacks will win the 2001 World Series?

It's called the smell of desperation.

[zigzag]

Originally posted by Zimphire:
It's called the smell of desperation.

A report commissioned by the White House, prepared by senior intelligence analysts, and approved by Bush's appointment to the CIA represents "desperation"?

Actually, you might be close to the truth, if only inadvertently. Republican Senator Lugar refers to the administration's conduct as "embarassing" and "incompetent." Republican Senator Hagel says "we're in deep trouble." Republican Senator McCain says the President isn't being honest. So desperation might, in fact, be a suitable characterization.

[Zimphire]

It's old info being used now..

[Troll]

Originally posted by Zimphire:
It's old info being used now..

What Zigzag has been asking you is what information you would prefer it to be based on! Do you think that if it was based on current information (you know like hundreds of people dying every week in terrorist attacks and counter attacks by the military) that the report would have been better for Bush? If you seriously want to argue that Iraq looks better on the ground now than it did in 2003 then you have a serious reality distortion problem.

[Zimphire]

I am saying it's irrelevant. I don't care what it shows.

[zigzag]

Originally posted by Troll:
What Zigzag has been asking you is what information you would prefer it to be based on! Do you think that if it was based on current information (you know like hundreds of people dying every week in terrorist attacks and counter attacks by the military) that the report would have been better for Bush? If you seriously want to argue that Iraq looks better on the ground now than it did in 2003 then you have a serious reality distortion problem.

Three different people reflexively dismissed the report before realizing that it was commissioned and approved by the Bush administration. This tells you more about the posters than it does about the report.

People criticize Kerry for not having an Iraq solution. The reason he doesn't have a solution is because there is none. Bush has gotten us into an intractable situation, has spent all of our political capital, and doesn't have a solution either. We'll plow on - we have no real choice - but everyone is basically keeping their fingers crossed. In that sense, it may not really matter who wins the election - whoever wins will be hamstrung by Iraq for years to come. It's difficult for me to believe that Bush may be rewarded for his incompetence, but that's politics.