[vmpaul]

Good stuff. That was the best thing I've seen on CNN in years.

I don't know how long these will be up:

stream here
another mirror here
BitTorrent here


from Salon:

Jon Stewart: Crossfire "hurting America"

"I think you're a lot more fun on your show," said Tucker Carlson to "Crossfire" guest Jon Stewart this afternoon. "And I think you're as much of a dick on your show as on any other," Stewart shot back. It wasn't the faux avuncularity we've come to expect from Stewart on "The Daily Show" but there, of course, he's playing a role. Here he was himself -- and he wasn't buying any of it.

From the moment Stewart sat down he made no secret of how repugnant he found the show. In fact, he said to Carlson and co-host Paul Begala that he had been so hard on the show he felt it was his duty to come on and say to their faces what he has said to friends and in interviews. What he said was that their show was "hurting America," and he was being only slightly hyperbolic. Stewart told them that when America needed journalists to be journalists they had instead chosen to present theater.

Carlson, trying to affect an air of dry amusement that a comedian would presume to lecture him, important pundit that he is, but looking as if his bow-tie were about to start spinning, could barely contain his outrage. In an absolutely mind-boggling moment, Carlson tried to counter Stewart's criticism by pointing out that during John Kerry's recent appearance on "The Daily Show," Stewart asked the candidate softball questions. "If you want to measure yourself against a comedy show," Stewart said, "be my guest."

Paul Begala tried to put a more conciliatory face on things by pointing out that theirs was a "debate" show. Stewart was having none of it. "I would love to see a real debate show," he said. And went on to tell them that instead of holding politicians' feet to the fire by asking tough question, "you're part of their strategy. You're partisan -- what's the word? -- uh, hacks."

It's almost a cliche by now to talk about "The Daily Show" being more trusted than real newscasts, but Stewart showed why. He pointed out to Carlson that he had asked Kerry if he really were in Cambodia but "I don't care," and when Carlson asked him what he thought about the "Bill O'Reilly vibrator flap," Stewart said, "I don't." It was as concise a demonstration of the triviality of the media as you could hope for.

"I thought you were going to be funny," Carlson said toward the end of the interview. Stewart responded, "No, I'm not going to be your monkey." And that was what was so bracing.

Stewart's "Crossfire" appearance is going to generate talk about how prickly he was, how he wasn't "nice" like he is on "The Daily Show." But prickliness is just what was needed. If you've built your reputation as a satirist pointing out how the media falls down on the job, you're not going to make yourself a part of their charade.

I've heard people talk about "The Daily Show" as an oasis of sanity, a public service. I couldn't agree more. Stewart's appearance on "Crossfire" was another public service. He went on and acted as if the show's purpose really was to confront tough issues, instead of being the political equivalent of pro wrestling. Given a chance to say absolutely what he thought, Stewart took it. He accomplished what almost never happens on television anymore: He made the dots come alive.

[Shaddim]

Boy, Jon got really defensive. What an ass. hahaha

[icruise]

That was pretty funny. I had read about this, but hadn't seen the actual footage. Those Crossfire guys didn't seem to be expecting any real criticism.

[CreepingDeth]

He's not funny. I have never laughed at his jokes. They all fall flat in normal fashion: talks normal, then speeds up near the end then stops. It's boring.
Why would anyone see a comedy news show as an oasis of sanity?

[QuadG5Man]

Go Jon Stewart! I love you! It's so great to see him stick it to those Crossfire automations.
He is devine. Heaven sent. Did I mention I love him?
He represents intelligent America, which is a minority. Thank God there's a voice like his!!!!

It was so refreshing to see someone REALLY try to talk about the problems we have in media/politics/power/spin here in the US of A. Go Jon.

Props to Jon tonight, and every night in the future he continues his 'public service'.

A thoughtful and humorous soul like him is so invaluable, especially in these times.

Everyone should give it up to Jon. Bravo!! Bravo!!

[Shaddim]

Originally posted by QuadG5Man:
Go Jon Stewart! I love you! It's so great to see him stick it to those Crossfire automations.
He is devine. Heaven sent. Did I mention I love him?
He represents intelligent America, which is a minority. Thank God there's a voice like his!!!!

It was so refreshing to see someone REALLY try to talk about the problems we have in media/politics/power/spin here in the US of A. Go Jon.

Props to Jon tonight, and every night in the future he continues his 'public service'.

A thoughtful and humorous soul like him is so invaluable, especially in these times.

Everyone should give it up to Jon. Bravo!! Bravo!!

Yep, he does it all for the "public good", no spin at all from him. No sir.

Damn, wake up people.

[CreepingDeth]

Where do you live, son?

[Anders]

Ouch...:wow:

Did someone feel sorry they invited him.

Anyone here know Bourdieu and his "On Television"? I just heard Al Frankens "Lying liars..." and while I like it for its exploration into the arguments of the right I felt betrayed because with his show and this book he is actually participating in keeping up a pseudo-system of political argument. Right winged talk show hosts on the throat of left winged ones and visa versa. So what if he can show that a colleague of his lied? The next book out from that person will show that Al lied too. Nothing comes out of this besides the reduction of politics to disguised entertainment. Thats what Steward is calling them out on.

Its interesting that its a comedy host who are the one to point this obvious fact out.

[dcmacdaddy]

Originally posted by Anders:
Ouch...:wow:

Did someone feel sorry they invited him.

Anyone here know Bourdieu and his "On Television"? I just heard Al Frankens "Lying liars..." and while I like it for its exploration into the arguments of the right I felt betrayed because with his show and this book he is actually participating in keeping up a pseudo-system of political argument. Right winged talk show hosts on the throat of left winged ones and visa versa. So what if he can show that a colleague of his lied? The next book out from that person will show that Al lied too. Nothing comes out of this besides the reduction of politics to disguised entertainment. Thats what Stewart is calling them out on.

Its interesting that its a comedy host who are the one to point this obvious fact out.

The fool/jester was ALWAYS the only one who could tell the truth and get away with it.
Everyone has a good laugh, realizes the kernel of truth contained within the jest, but moves on.
Jon Stewart has just updated that trend for the 21st century. He fills an important role in the
American political structure. But sadly, what is lacking is anyone with a shred of decency
within the White House, to acknowledge the filth spewing forth from the White House.

[SimeyTheLimey]

Last year I went to a live taping of Crossfire. I hated it. All those pithy exchanges between conservative high school nerd Tucker Carlson and evil stoat James Carville: they are all written out on scripts taped to the desks. I watched them read the damned things.

Al Sharpton was the guest when I was there. He was the only genuine thing in the entire show. The rest is manufactured crap.

[Randman]

Stewart was brilliant, especially telling that bowtie dude he is a "prick". Besides, no matter the political side of the fence you're on, America The Book is fun, though I prefer America The Book The Audiobook version.

[Anders]

Originally posted by Randman:
Stewart was brilliant, especially telling that bowtie dude he is a "prick". Besides, no matter the political side of the fence you're on, America The Book is fun, though I prefer America The Book The Audiobook version.

Yes. I have learned to love audible. I have bought "My life", "Against all enemies", "Lying liar...", "I , Robot" (no not THAT version) and the first three really added something you wouldn´t be able to find in the physical version. Especially Clarkes reproduction of 911 is amazing.

[Secret__Police]

Stewart was AWESOME

[OldManMac]

Originally posted by CreepingDeath:
Where do you live, son?

Now, that's funny! A 15 year old, calling someone "son."

[QuadG5Man]

>>
Where do you live, son?


Now, that's funny! A 15 year old, calling someone "son."




__________________
If Webster wrote the first dictionary, where did he find the words?
>>

ah, the internet's a wonderful place. And kid, Jon ROCKS. I hope you really aren't 15....it makes me shiver if you are.

[vmpaul]

Originally posted by SimeyTheLimey:
Last year I went to a live taping of Crossfire. I hated it. All those pithy exchanges between conservative high school nerd Tucker Carlson and evil stoat James Carville: they are all written out on scripts taped to the desks. I watched them read the damned things.

Al Sharpton was the guest when I was there. He was the only genuine thing in the entire show. The rest is manufactured crap.

Sounds exactly like the message Jon Stewart was trying to convey. Partisan hackery disguised as news and debate.

[vmpaul]

Originally posted by MacNStein:
Yep, he does it all for the "public good", no spin at all from him. No sir.

Damn, wake up people.

Spin? It's a COMEDY show. There are no journalistic standards for comedy shows. Just as there are no journalistic standards for sit-coms, or cop dramas, or medical shows, and on and on.

That's the absurdity of Tucker Carlson's and (to a minor extent) your reaction. How can anyone even expect journalism from Comedy Central? Carlson's either oblivious or unwilling to see the distinction. Here's another exchange that exemplifies that:

CARLSON: You had John Kerry on your show and you sniff his throne and you're accusing us of partisan hackery?
STEWART: Absolutely.
CARLSON: You've got to be kidding me. He comes on and you...
STEWART: You're on CNN. The show that leads into me is puppets making crank phone calls.

CNN (and all these so-called 'news' organizations) have a responsibility to the public to present information to the public in a impartial way. As well as a responsibility, I believe, to hold politicians accountable and answerable to the public. Lately, they've done neither job very successfully. Shows like 'Crossfire' are just platforms for both R's and D's to spout campaign slogans with the help of two so-called journalists. As Stewart and others have said (see Simey's experience), these shows are nothing but scripted theater when they pretend to be serious news programs with the intent to inform the public.

[itai195]

Originally posted by vmpaul:
Good stuff. That was the best thing I've seen on CNN in years.

I don't know how long these will be up:

stream here
another mirror here
BitTorrent here

Thanks for the links, vmpaul. I'd read about this and was hoping I could see it online someplace. Stewart is absolutely right, but it's not much a surprise since he satirizes the absurdity of news shows like Crossfire on the Daily Show every night.

PS America, the book is pretty funny too

[MindFad]

Thanks for the linkage. That was great.

[vmpaul]

Originally posted by itai195:
Thanks for the links, vmpaul. I'd read about this and was hoping I could see it online someplace. Stewart is absolutely right, but it's not much a surprise since he satirizes the absurdity of news shows like Crossfire on the Daily Show every night.

PS America, the book is pretty funny too

No problem. I'm glad the links are still up.

I might get the book as well. Looked through it at the bookstore but had to put it down after I got to the nude Supreme Court justices. I was laughing too loud.

[andi*pandi]

excellent.

[olePigeon]

I feel like we're missing something. Can't put my finger on it...

Oh yeah!

Zimphire: Stuart is a liberal moron who doesn't know his ass from his head. Look at him! He just reeks of liberalism! When will Democrats ever get it? That was the worst interview ever.

Captain Obvious: I don't know what he was talking about, but I'm going to insult everyone in this thread anyway. You all suck.


Ok, now it's a political thread.

[Isaac]

hmm... I think he came on alittle week...

[anti-sleep]

Originally posted by CreepingDeath:
He's not funny. I have never laughed at his jokes. They all fall flat in normal fashion: talks normal, then speeds up near the end then stops. It's boring.
Why would anyone see a comedy news show as an oasis of sanity?

Really? Your the first person I've heard that really didn't like him. What's next, a Dennis Miller fan?

[Spliffdaddy]

count me as the second person that doesn't like him.

[Randman]

Originally posted by Isaac:
hmm... I think he came on alittle week...

Luckily, he didn't come on weak.

[boots]

I like Stewart. As a political satirist, I think he's funny. He's definately not a fan of Bush, but he lampoon's Kerry a lot too.

I used to like Al Franken. Now he's decided that his satire isn't satire but truth. Since he made the leap to political analyst/liberal shock-jock on Air-Amaerica, I've lost interest.

I also used to like Dennis Miller. Again, I lost interest when he got the right-wing talk show.

If all y'all would just keep doing what you do best (making fun of yourself and others), we'd be fine. But I don't trust all y'all's credentials outside of the satire thing.

[saltines17]

I thoroughly enjoyed that. It's the kind of thing Michael Moore would do if he were somewhat intelligent rather than a decent film editor looking to make money from political hype.

[Anders]

Originally posted by saltines17:
I thoroughly enjoyed that. It's the kind of thing Michael Moore would do if he were somewhat intelligent rather than a decent film editor looking to make money from political hype.

MMs agenda is completely different

[spacefreak]

I think Stewart made some great points.

However, he is obnoxious in the sense that he refuses to let anybody else finish a sentence without his talking over them. Also, he is excruciatingly condescending, which makes him almost unbearable to watch. And his calling Carlson a 'dick' was completely out of line.

[Xeo]

A friend just sent me this today. Just wanted to say that I laughed through the whole thing. I can't believe that the guy couldn't grasp that Stewart's show on Comedy Central is different than this show on CNN.

[Spheric Harlot]

Originally posted by spacefreak:
I think Stewart made some great points.

However, he is obnoxious in the sense that he refuses to let anybody else finish a sentence without his talking over them. Also, he is excruciatingly condescending, which makes him almost unbearable to watch. And his calling Carlson a 'dick' was completely out of line.

No, it wasn't, because Carlson was being a dick.

See, if you watch it again, you'll note that the whole thing begins with Stewart saying that he came on the show for a single reason: to say something. He then tries to say it, and gets repeatedly cut off.

At that point, and watching those dicks handle their show, and hold his comedy show to the same standard, I find it difficult to see how one could NOT become condescending without actually just getting up and leaving.

-s*

[Spheric Harlot]

Originally posted by saltines17:
I thoroughly enjoyed that. It's the kind of thing Michael Moore would do if he were somewhat intelligent rather than a decent film editor looking to make money from political hype.

You're having difficulty distinguishing between crafty propaganda and intelligent, non-partisan dedication to democracy.

[aberdeenwriter]

Originally posted by vmpaul:
Spin? It's a COMEDY show. There are no journalistic standards for comedy shows. Just as there are no journalistic standards for sit-coms, or cop dramas, or medical shows, and on and on.

That's the absurdity of Tucker Carlson's and (to a minor extent) your reaction. How can anyone even expect journalism from Comedy Central? Carlson's either oblivious or unwilling to see the distinction. Here's another exchange that exemplifies that:

CNN (and all these so-called 'news' organizations) have a responsibility to the public to present information to the public in a impartial way. As well as a responsibility, I believe, to hold politicians accountable and answerable to the public. Lately, they've done neither job very successfully. Shows like 'Crossfire' are just platforms for both R's and D's to spout campaign slogans with the help of two so-called journalists. As Stewart and others have said (see Simey's experience), these shows are nothing but scripted theater when they pretend to be serious news programs with the intent to inform the public.

Years ago, when the network news departments were pared down and re-organized to operate under the control of the entertainment divisions, a great hue and cry went up from the news people. (See the films, Network and Broadcast News)

The American public yawned.

The networks wanted news to generate a PROFIT so that began the chase for ratings.

What we've got we've had for a while and the until ratings begin to drop we're gonna keep getting more of the same.

When it comes to American tastes, sad to say, if you sweeten it, we'll eat it. If it's dry and unflavored, but nutritious and real, we tend to pass on it.

I think "Meet The Press with Tim Russert" is terrific. I used to be a big fan of "This Week with David Brinkley" but news show ratings will never be huge unless there's an entertainment or HUGE news story going on at the time.

The Daily Show is very clever but if it WASN'T funny it would just be another news show with runt sized ratings. Stewart has a point because Crossfire is the only regularly scheduled show of it's type on the air and it hasn't seriously achieved or addressed it's potential.

Why?

Ratings. It wants to make money so it appeals to the lowest common denominator. WWF/WWE style that's what the ratings say the American public wants.

Politically Incorrect bit the dust because Bill Maher was too...ready?

POLITICALLY INCORRECT.

[Xeo]

Originally posted by aberdeenwriter:
The Daily Show is very clever but if it WASN'T funny it would just be another news show with runt sized ratings.

Well that's blatantly true. If it wasn't funny, it wouldn't have been put into existence at all. It's at the core of all that the show is.

[Stradlater]

Originally posted by CreepingDeath:
He's not funny. I have never laughed at his jokes. They all fall flat in normal fashion: talks normal, then speeds up near the end then stops. It's boring.
Why would anyone see a comedy news show as an oasis of sanity?

Your sig is too big. One line of text with an image.

[boots]

Originally posted by CreepingDeath:

Why would anyone see a comedy news show as an oasis of sanity?

I don't know. Maybe it's because in true Jonathan Swift tradition, one is able to use satire and humor to focus more sharply on the deeper issues and the underlying truths?