[mo]

From the Chicago Sun-Times:

U.S. Senate candidate Alan Keyes told a rally Saturday that incest was "inevitable" for children raised by gay couples because the children might not know both biological parents.

"If we do not know who the mother is, who the father is, without knowing all the brothers and sisters, incest becomes inevitable," Keyes told the Marquette Park rally held to oppose same-sex marriages.

"Whether they mean it or not, that is what will happen. If you are masked from your knowing your biological parents, you are in danger of encountering brothers and sisters you have no knowledge of."

[Cody Dawg]

He's got a good point, if you think about it -- REALLY think about it.

I don't think he should tie it to gay couples, though. It should be mentioned in relationship to opening up sealed adoption records instead.

Though, I'd like to hear how gay couples are going to teach children through role modeling that a natural nuclear family is a mother of the female gender and a father of the male gender. I am against gay adoptions for that reason and only that reason. I think it is confusing for children and in some cases, may prove to be a stumbling block for them psychologically with respect to their peers.

[OldManMac]

Approximately 2% to 4% of the population is gay, and only a small percentage of them are in long term relationships, and out of that, very few have children, but of course Keyes, who obviously has a fascination with homosexuality has nothing else to run on, knowing he's going to get his ass handed to him on a platter in the election, so focuses on an issue which affects so few that it really isn't relevant, but it sure does inflame people with good moral character.

I find it amazing that so many are so afraid of something that will never affect their lives.

Funny stuff.

[chris v]

So, his use of the word "inevitable" and his use of the phrase "that is what will happen" means that he really believes that all children brought up by a gay parent must neccessarily become incestuous?


Utterly, fantastically bizarre. Quote of the week, for sure.

[itai195]

More evidence that any random Republican off the street would have been a better candidate choice than Keyes

[xi_hyperon]

What a bizarre thing to say. Of all the things wrong in this world, and this is the nonsense that a man running for Senate is going on about. If incest is so "inevitable", then I guess anyone who is adopted should be concerned.

[Wiskedjak]

"If we do not know who the mother is, who the father is, without knowing all the brothers and sisters, incest becomes inevitable," Keyes told the Marquette Park rally held to oppose same-sex marriages.

"Whether they mean it or not, that is what will happen. If you are masked from your knowing your biological parents, you are in danger of encountering brothers and sisters you have no knowledge of."

Would this logic not hold true for any adopted children, whether they're adopted by gay or hetro families?

Anyone watch Big Brother 5 this summer?
http://www.cbs.com/primetime/bigbrot.../thurs01.shtml

[xi_hyperon]

Originally posted by Cody Dawg:
He's got a good point, if you think about it -- REALLY think about it.

What I REALLY think is that Keyes is desperate to get some votes, at least from the fringe, so that the election won't be a total shutout for him.

[mo]

Originally posted by xi_hyperon:
What I REALLY think is that Keyes is desperate to get some votes, at least from the fringe, so that the election won't be a total shutout for him.

Ever since the state Republicans imported Keyes from Maryland, I've wondered why there wasn't somebody -- some GOP state senator, or sheriff, or whatever -- they couldn't put up to at least avoid the embarrassment of having this maniac on the ballot. The more Keyes runs, the crazier he seems to get.

[Wiskedjak]

Originally posted by Cody Dawg:
He's got a good point, if you think about it -- REALLY think about it.

I don't think he should tie it to gay couples, though. It should be mentioned in relationship to opening up sealed adoption records instead.

And, why do you suppose he didn't mention his theory in relationship to opening up sealed adoption records, instead choosing to focus it on the issue of gay marriage?

[Cody Dawg]

I don't know, to be honest.

I think that connecting it to gay adoptions for THAT reason was idiotic.

People should just shut up about gay people, once and for all. Who really gives a flying crap, you know?

The truth is that it does not matter. Love who you want to love.

[angaq0k]

Sexual abuse is about power. Not sex.

Sex is the medium; abusing children is about easy control for self-satisfaction.

Nothing to do with gays, even if some of them might turn perpetrators, the majority of the population of perpetrators are heterosexual.

Get some book and read the goddam scientific litterature.

Are people so desperatly anti-gay and prejudiced to use their own beliefs to rule the world?
This is such a sad world..

I am so very tired of that ********...

Guys like Keyes are the new witches. They have this magic thinking that what they think has to be true and everybody else should swallow that has canned wisdom.

Well it is stale.

[MacGorilla]

Originally posted by itai195:
More evidence that any random Republican off the street would have been a better candidate choice than Keyes

I've heard Keyes speak about non political things, likee a speech he did on Shakespaere. he's a very intelligent, well spoken man but when it comes to politics...his brain just vanishes.

[NYCFarmboy]

Originally posted by xi_hyperon:
What I REALLY think is that Keyes is desperate to get some votes, at least from the fringe, so that the election won't be a total shutout for him.

I don't think there is any chance these comments by Keyes would help him win any more votes. I don't think the people of Illinois are that stupid. Obama will win by a landslide of historic proportions in Illinois...THANKFULLY. I think this is just more evidence that the Republican Party in Illinois has completely collapsed, evidenced by this mistake in importing this freak from Maryland to run for Senate in their own state.

[undotwa]

The wording of Senator Keyes was a bit too absolute, but I agree with the essence of his message that children are better off in homes with a mother and father. Before we start allowing gay couples to adopt children, I think we need to first shake off the ideological aspects of the issue and have more studies on the psychological impacts it has on a child.

The western world needs to place a greater emphasis in preserving the 'nuclear' family structure, by helping those thinking of divorce, making sure marriage isn't premature etc. This nuclear family structure is not really cultural, it reflects human nature (even societies which allow polygamous relationships only very few are).

[Xeo]

Originally posted by undotwa:
This nuclear family structure is not really cultural, it reflects human nature (even societies which allow polygamous relationships only very few are).

If polygamy was allowed, it would easily offset the non-reproducing gay couples as far as the population goes. But hell, even gay couples can reproduce, just not with each other. Women can have babies using a sperm donor, and men can donate sperm if they can find a surrogate mother.

But I don't think there is anyway one could argue that population growth is in any danger. The only reason children would have a problem being raised by two men or two women is that other kids will be mean about it. But if kids don't have that to be mean about, they will just find something else based on looks or some other characteristic. As long as they have a loving home, the kid's life will be fine.

But whatever the issues on this topic, at least we all seem to agree that the conclusion drawn by Keyes is nonsense.

[xi_hyperon]

Originally posted by NYCFarmboy:
I don't think there is any chance these comments by Keyes would help him win any more votes. I don't think the people of Illinois are that stupid. Obama will win by a landslide of historic proportions in Illinois...THANKFULLY. I think this is just more evidence that the Republican Party in Illinois has completely collapsed, evidenced by this mistake in importing this freak from Maryland to run for Senate in their own state.

I agree with your sentiment, but apparently Keyes doesn't. He or someone in his group must think this will win him votes.

[Spheric Harlot]

Originally posted by undotwa:
The wording of Senator Keyes was a bit too absolute, but I agree with the essence of his message that children are better off in homes with a mother and father. Before we start allowing gay couples to adopt children, I think we need to first shake off the ideological aspects of the issue and have more studies on the psychological impacts it has on a child.

The western world needs to place a greater emphasis in preserving the 'nuclear' family structure, by helping those thinking of divorce, making sure marriage isn't premature etc. This nuclear family structure is not really cultural, it reflects human nature (even societies which allow polygamous relationships only very few are).

Perhaps (and it's been discussed here ad nauseaum), but none of that is relevant at all to the idiotic claim that gay parents' kids WILL commit incest.

Obviously, all hetero parents' adopted kids will commit incest as well, seeing as they don't know who their biological siblings might be.

Interestingly, he's aborted one of his ilk's pet theories against gay adoption: That homosexuality is somehow infectious and that gay adoption inevitably leads to gay kids. That's positive, at least.

I get the impression that Keyes' brain might be the deformed product of such a pool of incestuous relationships.

-s*

[warmspit]

why doesn't this offend Lynne and Dick Cheney?

[d4nth3m4n]

this is what the anti-gay argument has resorted to? wow.

i dont know if i should be happy about all the progress that has been made, or sad that it has turned to this.

[Wiskedjak]

Originally posted by Xeo:
The only reason children would have a problem being raised by two men or two women is that other kids will be mean about it.

And kids will likely be mean about it if their parents are mean about it. On the issue of gay parents, I think kids are more likely to be accepting of it than many parents.

[andi*pandi]

way to make something a gay issue, that isn't. This is an adoption issue, or a child-of-a-traveling-salesman issue.

[Chinasaur]

What a hate filled person he must be

This is similar to the justification Southern states used for moving up to .38 pistols. They claimed "drug crazed negroes were not stoppable by .32 bullets" when it was really about racism and disenfrachisement.

This doesn't differ from GW's stance on using the Constitution to exclude a segment of the US population simply because they don't fit into the fanatical religious delusion he calls reality.

[Xeo]

Originally posted by Wiskedjak:
And kids will likely be mean about it if their parents are mean about it. On the issue of gay parents, I think kids are more likely to be accepting of it than many parents.

I agree that prejudice from the parents will create prejudice in the children. But at the same time, kids love to form groups and then pick on people who aren't in the group for their differences. It doesn't even matter what is different about them, they find something. This is just an easy target. That's a bad argument against gay adoption.

I definitely agree that in general, kids will be more accepting, just like our generation is ("our" being gen. Y) more than our parents. In a few generations, the fact that we're even discussing this will seem strange.

[Sven G]

Isn't the incest "taboo" originating from the fact that people from the same family shouldn't reproduce together? What has this to do with gay/non gay couples' children? As long as sex is really desired (in a loving context) I don't see any problem with non-reproductive "incest" and other forms of early sexuality (if wanted by all parties, again): the problem, rather, is that sex, in today's society, is just some form of goods to be consumed - that's the real vulgarity!

That said, I don't have sisters or brothers, so my reasoning is just in the form of principles and theory.

The general trend, anyway, seems to be that we have indeed regressed from the sexual (and, thus, social) point of view: modernity my arse!

And there are people who bother about incest and other mental masturbation nonsense, and don't see the much worse and critical problems that today's society faces: again, we seem to be living in a regressive society...

[BRussell]

Originally posted by andi*pandi:
way to make something a gay issue, that isn't. This is an adoption issue, or a child-of-a-traveling-salesman issue.

It's not an issue at all.

[Spheric Harlot]

Originally posted by Sven G:
Isn't the incest "taboo" originating from the fact that people from the same family shouldn't reproduce together? What has this to do with gay/non gay couples' children?

Nothing.

As has been pointed out, it applies equally badly to all adopted children, regardless of sexual orientation of their parents.

This is not a "gay" issue.

Or an issue at all, IMO.

[icruise]

I find it ironic that he's actually coming out against adoption, which is what anti-abortion activists (like Keyes) have been saying is a great alternative to abortion for years.

[warmspit]

Originally posted by Icruise:
I find it ironic that he's actually coming out against adoption, which is what anti-abortion activists (like Keyes) have been saying is a great alternative to abortion for years.

flip-flopping.