[aberdeenwriter]

Remember you heard it on these pages FIRST!

Guardian calls it quits in Clark County fiasco
By David Rennie in Youngstown
(Filed: 22/10/2004)

The Guardian yesterday ran up the white flag and called a halt to "Operation Clark County", the newspaper's ambitious scheme to recruit thousands of readers to persuade American voters in a swing state to kick out President George W Bush in next month's election.

The cancellation of the project came 24 hours after the first of some 14,000 letters from Guardian readers began arriving in Clark County. The missives led to widespread complaints about foreign interference in a US election.

[chris v]

Yeah, it's not like we go around influencing anything in other countries or anything. Where do they get off trying to tell another nation how to run their politics?!?

Once again, I'm shocked! Shocked to find gambling here!

[piGGy jacket]

The U.S. has NEVER tried to influence or intentionally killed anyone to change the outcome of a countries election or to incite a coup.

I swear it!

[Saad]

Originally posted by aberdeenwriter:


The cancellation of the project came 24 hours after the first of some 14,000 letters from Guardian readers began arriving in Clark County. The missives led to widespread complaints about foreign interference in a US election.

Should foreigners mind their own business, and restrain themselves from posting in a privately owned forum their own opinions? Is that you are getting at?

If you're political feelings cannot withstand the challenge of a Muslim Icelander or Israeli, your feelings should probably change them anyways.

FAUIAEPTP!

[aberdeenwriter]

Originally posted by Saad:
Should foreigners mind their own business, and restrain themselves from posting in a privately owned forum their own opinions? Is that you are getting at?

If you're political feelings cannot withstand the challenge of a Muslim Icelander or Israeli, your feelings should probably change them anyways.

FAUIAEPTP!

You are saved from being issued a Fuzzy Alert only because you obviously don't know the history behind this thread.

FYI, it was 80% very dry joke and 20% an editorial against people from outside the US who are unduly influencing the US voting process by failing to list their correct locations while making political arguments.

ONOMATOPOEIA!

[icruise]

Is this really related to your infamous thread? It's not like these letter writers were pretending to be Americans, after all. Your entire point was that you didn't want people who didn't identify themselves as foreigners influencing the political process. Well, these people DID identify themselves as foreigners. You should be happy.

As for the plan itself, it was very ill-conceived. Kind of like the time Japanese citizens got together to try and convince Americans that they should get rid of their guns. At best, it would have little or no effect, and at worst it would backfire.

[aberdeenwriter]

nally posted by Icruise:
Is this really related to your infamous thread? It's not like these letter writers were pretending to be Americans, after all. Your entire point was that you didn't want people who didn't identify themselves as foreigners influencing the political process. Well, these people DID identify themselves as foreigners. You should be happy.
[/QUOTE]


One Less Bell To Answer

by 5th Dimension

One less bell to answer
One less egg to fry
One less man to pick up after
I should be happy
But all I do is cry
(Cry, cry, no more laughter) I should be happy
(Oh, why did he go)
Since he left my life's so empty
Though I try to forget it just can't be done
Each time the doorbell rings I still run
I don't know how in the world
To stop thinking of him
'Cause I still love him so
I spend each day the way I start out
Crying my heart out
One less man to pick up after
No more laughter, no more love
Since he went away (he went away)
(One less bell to answer) Why did he leave me
(Why, why, why did he leave)
(One less bell to answer) Now I've got one less egg to fry
One less egg to fry
(Why, why, why did he leave) And all I do is cry
(One less bell to answer) Because a man told me goodbye
(Why, why, why did he leave)
(One less bell to answer) Somebody tell me please
Where did he go, why did he go
(Why, why, why did he leave) How could he leave me

[Saad]

Originally posted by aberdeenwriter:
You are saved from being issued a Fuzzy Alert only because you obviously don't know the history behind this thread.

FYI, it was 80% very dry joke and 20% an editorial against people from outside the US who are unduly influencing the US voting process by failing to list their correct locations while making political arguments.

ONOMATOPOEIA!

You are saved from being issued a Fuzzy Alert only because you obviously don't recognize the humor in my remarks.

FYI, it was 90% satirical joust and 10% an editorial against people unable to defend their opinions in the face of clever foreigners.

FAUIAEPTP!

[aberdeenwriter]

Originally posted by Saad:
You are saved from being issued a Fuzzy Alert only because you obviously don't recognize the humor in my remarks.

FYI, it was 90% satirical joust and 10% an editorial against people unable to defend their opinions in the face of clever foreigners.

FAUIAEPTP!

SIGH

If you were being satirical, I tip my cap to you.

Please help this less than clever Yank to understand the meaning of fauiaptp!

Is it the name of the latest WWE wrestler from Crete or something?

And, please, don't tell me you're calling me out. I've tried being inoffensive and dull for a week, just to prove to myself that I could. However, a week is long enough for showing my softer, gentler side and I'm sensing you are one clever foreigner.

[BRussell]

Aberdeen, yours was probably the dumbest thread in the history of the Political lounge. You said people were illegally influencing the American election, that they were breaking American law, and that you wanted the administrators of MacNN to require people to identify their locations.

Why you keep bringing it up again I don't know.

[OldManMac]

FUZZY LIBERAL ALERT! FUZZY LIBERAL ALERT!

I just coulnd't resist!

[aberdeenwriter]

Originally posted by KarlG:
FUZZY LIBERAL ALERT! FUZZY LIBERAL ALERT!

I just coulnd't resist!

You made me laugh and laugh KarlG!

Absolutely correct!

BRussell has, INDEED, triggered a FUZZY ALERT!

Failure to read thoroughly
Twisting opponent's argument
Inability to interpret accurately

BRussell, I may be guilty of MANY things like being a bit too quick for SOME of you, too subtle at times, too restrained in my suffrage of fools.

Your accusations are things I'm neither guilty of nor concerned with. Your post speak to your need to clean or change your Fuzzy Filter.

Nice one, KarlG!

[Saad]

Originally posted by aberdeenwriter:
SIGH

If you were being satirical, I tip my cap to you.

Please help this less than clever Yank to understand the meaning of fauiaptp!

Is it the name of the latest WWE wrestler from Crete or something?

And, please, don't tell me you're calling me out. I've tried being inoffensive and dull for a week, just to prove to myself that I could. However, a week is long enough for showing my softer, gentler side and I'm sensing you are one clever foreigner.

Here's the link:
http://forums.macnn.com/showthread.p...rs#post2220460

I'm not a foreigner. I was born a US citizen, and I live in Nashville.

[Saad]

Originally posted by BRussell:
Aberdeen, yours was probably the dumbest thread in the history of the Political lounge. You said people were illegally influencing the American election, that they were breaking American law, and that you wanted the administrators of MacNN to require people to identify their locations.

Why you keep bringing it up again I don't know.

I think he's just afraid a canadian kid might turn him liberal.

[aberdeenwriter]

Originally posted by BRussell:
Aberdeen, yours was probably the dumbest thread in the history of the Political lounge. You said people were illegally influencing the American election, that they were breaking American law, and that you wanted the administrators of MacNN to require people to identify their locations.

Why you keep bringing it up again I don't know.

For one whose location is listed as: "In the shower scrubbing off with some falafel" I would think YOU (of all people) would get it.

[aberdeenwriter]

Originally posted by Saad:
Here's the link:
http://forums.macnn.com/showthread.p...rs#post2220460

I'm not a foreigner. I was born a US citizen, and I live in Nashville.

For one whose location is listed as: "Nashville" I would think YOU (of all people) would get it.

[aberdeenwriter]

Originally posted by Saad:
I think he's just afraid a canadian kid might turn him liberal.

Saad, your post is just sad.

[Saad]

Originally posted by aberdeenwriter:
Saad, your post is just sad.

And the theory you propose in either of your 'foreigners' posts is even worse. Because the Guardian implemented a boneheaded policy, no foreigners should post in domestic foums for fear of changing someone's mind?

Now excuse me as I watch Deutsche Welle and read the Mail and Guardian.

[aberdeenwriter]

Originally posted by Saad:
And the theory you propose in either of your 'foreigners' posts is even worse. Because the Guardian implemented a boneheaded policy, no foreigners should post in domestic foums for fear of changing someone's mind?

I knew it would be simply a matter of time. LOL

FUZZY ALERT!

Failure to read thoroughly
Inability to interpret accurately
Twisting opponent's argument

I said I welcomed all voices and opinions, but when someone who might be influenced by the arguments of (to use your term) a "clever foreigner" reads those comments without knowledge of that person's location, it's like not listing a link when making an assertion in one's posts.

You have no way of appreciating that person's comments in a useful context. I commended and applauded the free and honest location disclosures by those who chose to do so, and have never had a problem with them speaking their minds.

With those 'location' cards on the table, discourse would and should continue as always.

What say you to that, oh Fuzzy one?

[Saad]

Originally posted by aberdeenwriter:
I knew it would be simply a matter of time. LOL

FUZZY ALERT!

Failure to read thoroughly
Inability to interpret accurately
Twisting opponent's argument

I said I welcomed all voices and opinions, but when someone who might be influenced by the arguments of (to use your term) a "clever foreigner" reads those comments without knowledge of that person's location, it's like not listing a link when making an assertion in one's posts.

You have no way of appreciating that person's comments in a useful context. I commended and applauded the free and honest location disclosures by those who chose to do so, and have never had a problem with them speaking their minds.

With those 'location' cards on the table, discourse would and should continue as always.

What say you to that, oh Fuzzy one?

We should protect people's opinions from influence of unmarked foreigners?

[aberdeenwriter]

Originally posted by Saad:
We should protect people's opinions from influence of unmarked foreigners?

The government said we should know THE SOURCE.

I agree.

You DON'T???

http://www.usdoj.gov/criminal/fara/q_A.htm

"The purpose of FARA is to insure that the American public and it's lawmakers know the source of information (propaganda) intended to sway public opinion, policy and laws. In 1938, the FARA was Congress' response to the large number of German propaganda agents in the pre-WWII U.S."

[Saad]

Originally posted by aberdeenwriter:
The government said we should know THE SOURCE.

I agree.

You DON'T???

http://www.usdoj.gov/criminal/fara/q_A.htm

"The purpose of FARA is to insure that the American public and it's lawmakers know the source of information (propaganda) intended to sway public opinion, policy and laws. In 1938, the FARA was Congress' response to the large number of German propaganda agents in the pre-WWII U.S."

22 U.S.C. 611, et seq.
Exemptions
...
(d) Any person engaging or agreeing to engage only (1) in private and nonpolitical activities in furtherance of the bona fide trade or commerce of such foreign principal; or (2) in other activities not serving predominantly a foreign interest; or (3) in the soliciting or collecting of funds and contributions within the United States to be used only for medical aid and assistance, or for food and clothing to relieve human suffering, if such solicitation or collection of funds and contributions is in accordance with and subject to the provisions of subchapter II of chapter 9 of this title, and such rules and regulations as may be prescribed thereunder;

Seems it exempts those foreign agents who only engage in political discussion. If your opinion cannot withstand the questioning of foreigners, find a forum without foreigners.

[aberdeenwriter]

Originally posted by Saad:
Seems it exempts those foreign agents who only engage in political discussion. If your opinion cannot withstand the questioning of foreigners, find a forum without foreigners.

FUZZY ALERT!!!

Fuzzy logic
Inability to interpret accurately
Twisting opponent's argument
Inability to face reality
Mole holing

My opinions withstand just fine. So far, I prefer MacNN thank you very much.

It is YOU I am beginning to find ojectionable.

Don't trifle with me.

[Saad]

Originally posted by aberdeenwriter:
FUZZY ALERT!!!

Fuzzy logic
Inability to interpret accurately
Twisting opponent's argument
Inability to face reality
Mole holing

My opinions withstand just fine. So far, I prefer MacNN thank you very much.

It is YOU I am beginning to find ojectionable.

Don't trifle with me.

Then why do you complain so much about foreign agent infiltration. It is legal. It is not detrimental to (most) users experiences.

[Saad]

Originally posted by aberdeenwriter:


It is YOU I am beginning to find ojectionable.

Don't trifle with me.

Perhaps you can find some other federal agency will listen to you complain.

[aberdeenwriter]

Originally posted by Saad:
Perhaps you can find some other federal agency will listen to you complain.

I recognize your Fuzzy Brainedness is a handicap which greatly challenges you (almost as much as it challenges the clear thinkers who have to deal with you) in life and for that I will make ONE LAST EFFORT to help you see the light.

I strongly suggest you read that entire thread. To help you out I've identified a few posts which might cut through the Fuzziness and make sense to you.

IN

NO

PARTICULAR

ORDER

[Saad]

Originally Posted by: Aberdeenwriter
I believe it's helpful for posters and readers to know as much about any poster's 'baggage' as possible when they are posting here so that the arguments by a US hater from another country won't be considered the same as a US citizen's argument when viewed by a possible swing voter.

As I've said before, If that HATER influences one damn vote, it's one vote too many.

If that damn swing voter sees something convincing or inciteful posted by a member, it hardly seems that it is the fault of the member posting the offending material, it is the fault of the swing voter. If a foreigner has a valid point, why cannot we not recognize the point?

Originally posted by Aberdeenwriter:
The matter before the visitors of this thread has to do more with ETHICS of disclosure.

It is inethical to post opinions to a privately owned forum if you are not from the US? Are foreign visitors in the US prohibitted from speaking their mind?

Originally posted by Aberdeenwriter:
Why do these laws exist?

Why was FARA enacted?

What did I propose?

Answers to those 3 questions should clear it up fer ya!

The laws exist to protect US citizens from individuals representing foreign governments swaying public opinion through propoganda.

FARA was enacted to protect US citizens from German propoganda in World War II.

You propose making the forum compliant with said law. That would require all non-US citizens who are foreign agents to register with the SU attorney general.

Originally posted by Aberdeenwriter:
The idea of govt. intervention was never seriously considered.

Then why do you bring up the FARA act? Why not say "It would be cool if members put location information in their profiles.", as opposed to

Originally posted by Aberdeenwriter:
This is an issue which I believe requires the immediate attention of MacNN management
Foreign Agents are Unduly Influencing the American Electoral Process on These Pages.

That implies that you are worried about foreign agents changing your mind, not interest in other's country of residence.

[aberdeenwriter]

Uh oh...I'm hearing my dear, departed grandad's voice in my brain...

When you rassle with a fool it's hard for anybody watching to know who's who.

I refuse you battle here and now. Maybe later, though.

[Saad]

Originally posted by aberdeenwriter:
Uh oh...I'm hearing my dear, departed grandad's voice in my brain...

When you rassle with a fool it's hard for anybody watching to know who's who.

I refuse you battle here and now. Maybe later, though.

Your inability to defend your postitions does not classify both of us fools (though we both may very well be). Later

[aberdeenwriter]

Originally posted by Saad:
Your inability to defend your postitions does not classify both of us fools (though we both may very well be). Later

In the past 24 hours I've taken a look at a few of your posts and have come to two findings:

You are a smart, decent guy.

I have ignored several of your posts.

I'd like to apologize for ignoring you. Your response to my un-responsiveness is to take steps which makes sure you will no longer be ignored.

I can only say the reason I've inadvertently ignored you is precisely because you are such a smart, decent guy and your posts haven't offended or enraged me. They have been reasonable and (for the most part) well thought out.

I notice at about the same time you began baiting me in this thread, you also started the 'abortion' thread (a subject ALWAYS sure to provoke a flurry of responses).

Because you are an intelligent guy, I trust you will find my previously stated positions on foreign agents and foreign participation on online forums self explanatory and that you and I have no major difference of opinion.

I just couldn't get a sense of outrage at your posts, sorry.

If one of us really does show signs of real stoopidity or if one of us really becomes outraged, then we may have a date with destiny () Until then, I lay down my sword and shield.