[typoon]

http://abcnews.go.com/WNT/story?id=206661

Alleged American Al Qaeda Warns of U.S. Attacks

Azzam the American: 'Streets of America Will Run Red With Blood'

A man identified only as "Azzam the American" appears on a tape saying America faces a new wave of terror attacks._(ABC News)

By BRIAN ROSS

NEW YORK, Oct. 28, 2004 —_A man describing himself as an American member of al Qaeda says a new wave of terror attacks against the United States could come "at any moment," according to a videotape obtained by ABC News.

The tape was acquired by ABC News last Friday from a source known to have Taliban and al Qaeda contacts in the tribal region of Pakistan. ABC paid the source $500 in transportation fees.

From the ABCNEWS Investigative Unit: Daily Investigative Report

Alleged American Al Qaeda Warns of U.S. Attacks

While CIA officials say they have not been able to authenticate the 75-minute tape, an agency spokesman says it "appears to have been produced by al Qaeda's media organization, al Sahab productions." The tape is marked with the same logo and graphics seen on previous videos released by al Qaeda.

The man on the tape is identified only as "Azzam the American." U.S. officials say they had not previously known of the nom de guerre. His face is never fully visible and he makes no reference to where in the United States he might have lived.

"No, my fellow countrymen you are guilty, guilty, guilty, guilty. You are as guilty as Bush and Cheney. You're as guilty as Rumsfeld and Ashcroft and Powell," he says in what he calls his message to America. "After decades of American tyranny and oppression, now it's your turn to die. Allah willing, the streets of America will run red with blood matching drop for drop the blood of America's victims."

Senior administration officials told ABC News tonight that copies of the tape are being provided to all 13 current and former administration figures mentioned by name in the tape, and that the tape is being shown to captured al Qaeda leaders in U.S. custody to see if they can identify the man on the tape.

"A member of al Qaeda who professes to be a U.S. citizen was always coveted and looked for by the al Qaeda," said Jack Cloonan, a former FBI agent who interviewed a number of captured al Qaeda members and is now an ABC News consultant. Cloonan said he believed the tape to be authentic.

Law enforcement officials and linguistic expert Gerald Lampe, deputy director of the National Foreign Language Center at the University of Maryland, believe English was not Azzam's first language. They speculate he may have learned English as a child in a household of non-native speakers.

U.S. officials believe there are several Americans working with al Qaeda, including Adam Gadahn, a former Southern California student who is wanted for questioning by the FBI. U.S. intelligence officials say the voice on the tape does not match Gadahn's or that of any Americans suspected of being part of al Qaeda.

Azzam makes references to several American officials, including 9/11 Commission Chairman Tom Kean, and even refers to the controversial remarks made by comedian Bill Maher about the cowardice of the U.S. launching cruise missiles compared with terrorist suicide attacks.

And he warned that Sept. 11 was only the beginning.

"People of America, I remind you of the weighty words of our leaders, Osama bin Laden and Dr. Ayman al-Zawahri, that what took place on Sept. 11 was but the opening salvo of the global war on America," said Azzam. "And that Allah willing, the magnitude and ferocity of what is coming your way will make you forget all about Sept. 11."


WE NEED TO STOP MESSING AROUND AND DESTROY THESE DAMN TERRORISTS. TAKE THE GLOVES OFF!!!

[jojo gunne]

Originally posted by typoon:
'Streets of America Will Run Red With Blood'

A man identified only as "Azzam the American" appears on a tape saying America faces a new wave of terror attacks._(ABC News)

WE NEED TO STOP MESSING AROUND AND DESTROY THESE DAMN TERRORISTS. TAKE THE GLOVES OFF!!!

has he been to parts of los angeles?

[Krusty]

October Surprise™ ?

[MindFad]

Originally posted by Krusty:
October Surprise™ ?

Beat me to it.

[ironknee]

Originally posted by Krusty:
October Surprise™ ?

here it is right on time amazing

[typoon]

It's kind of interesting people talking about an October surprise since it came from abcnews. Probably one of the more liberal news networks. Why would they want to damage their candidate's chances of winning.

[itai195]

Originally posted by typoon:
It's kind of interesting people talking about an October surprise since it came from abcnews. Probably one of the more liberal news networks.

[aberdeenwriter]

All the left leaning "predictions" or "AHA's!" of an October Surprise floor me!

The terrorists observe our media.

They know of your sentiments.

They know the best way to take advantage of your pacifist fears is to threaten terrorism. (It worked with the French so why not the Americans, too?)

They know you will be swayed.

They know the election is Nov. 2nd, the time when your 'voice' will be registered.

They know that making this threat anytime before the election wouldn't be as effective as making it now.

Those who really believe this is an orchestrated attempt by the Bush administration to ratchet up the country's fear in order to stack the deck for Bush are mistaken.

Those who are just trying to have fun by mentioning "Oct. Suprise," then disregard this post.

[mikellanes]

Lets see what happens to the "Terror Level" in the next few days...

It is already at mellow yellow
http://www.dhs.gov/dhspublic/display?theme=29

[Millennium]

Feh. I've come to the conclusion that any attack announced in advance like this is a hoax.

Think about it. A large part of the point of terrorism is fear. If you really want to scare someone, you strike unannounced. It's like the German buzzbombs from World War II, which travelled faster than the speed of sound: as long as you could hear them, you were safe. It was the one you didn't hear that got you.

[Taliesin]

Originally posted by aberdeenwriter:


The terrorists observe our media.

They know of your sentiments.

Indeed, but the conclusion you draw is not the right one. The Al-Kaida-terrorists know the US-sentiment, and they know that when the US is threatened that it sticks to its current president. Obviously Al-Kaida tries to help Bush a bit by threatening the US.

See, everything the US does right now is good for Al-Kaida, even the Afghanistan-war was good for Al-Kaida, and espescially the Iraq-war, which has led to the toppling of one of Al-Kaida's enemies.

What Al-Kaida wants is a war with the US, and Bush delivers. Most of Al-Kaida-members even desire to die at the hands of the US-army, as long as they can take at least one US-soldier with them.

Personally I don't like neither, Bush or Kerry. Kerry represents the covert-operation-style of US-intervention, the one that makes extensive use of secret-agencies of assassinating politicians, instilling rebellions, etc.. the Kissinger-way, while Bush represents the direct war-fare-kind of intervention.

Al-Kaida obviously prefers the direct warfare as it's more sensational and is a better tool for recruitment.

For me, both are just two sides of the same coin.

Taliesin

[Randman]

Spin, spin, spin.

All it needs is a voice over saying: I'm Osama bid Laden, and I approved this election message.

[Toutgood]

Originally posted by aberdeenwriter:
They know the best way to take advantage of your pacifist fears is to threaten terrorism. (It worked with the French so why not the Americans, too?)

They know you will be swayed.

Do they have color TV's in the world you live in?

[badidea]

Originally posted by typoon:
It's kind of interesting people talking about an October surprise since it came from abcnews. Probably one of the more liberal news networks. Why would they want to damage their candidate's chances of winning.

Do you want to tell me that FoxNews doesn't show this??

[SimeyTheLimey]

Originally posted by Millennium:
Think about it. A large part of the point of terrorism is fear. If you really want to scare someone, you strike unannounced. It's like the German buzzbombs from World War II, which travelled faster than the speed of sound: as long as you could hear them, you were safe. It was the one you didn't hear that got you.

[aside]Buzzbombs didn't travel faster than the speed of sound, that was the V2, not the V1.

The V1 was subsonic. As a matter of fact, the RAF was able to down quite a few by getting a Spitfire to fly alongside and tip the V1 over with its wingtip, causing the V1's gyros to tumble.

Because it was subsonic, you could hear its (very loud) pulse jet engine before it flew by you. My mother described hearing it and being terrified. However, when the pulse jet shut down, the V1 would fall unguided -- which is when you prayed. So the problem wasn't that it was unannounced (as the V2 was), rather it was that it was terrifyingly announced.

Bringing the analogy forward, the psychological effect was a lot like giving a general warning of an attack (the engine noise), but not giving the specifics of where the attack would occur (the silence after shutdown). So you think its coming, and could be coming for you, no matter where you are.

Of course, if you work someplace like the center of Washington, DC, that's not exactly a new feeling.

[typoon]

Originally posted by badidea:
Do you want to tell me that FoxNews doesn't show this??

It's on Foxnews now :-P http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,136937,00.html

If it came from Foxnews first or one of the other conservative websites then Yes I might say they are trying for an "October Surprise" but since it was reported and released on ABC first. I doubt it.

[mitchell_pgh]

Originally posted by SimeyTheLimey:
Of course, if you work someplace like the center of Washington, DC, that's not exactly a new feeling.

Thanks Jerk

[PacHead]

More proof that muslim terrorists are not driven by loyalty to their country, but rather to their ridiculous faith.

Also proof that we need to weed out some more enemies living amongst us.

[icruise]

Originally posted by PacHead:
Also proof that we need to weed out some more enemies living amongst us.

Damn right. We don't have nearly enough division and suspicion in this country.

[PacHead]

Originally posted by Icruise:
Damn right. We don't have nearly enough division and suspicion in this country.

So what ? You can thank hateful, lying fools like michael moore for that.

Anyhow, when Bush wins, who gives a crap what the other whining side thinks ?

[ironknee]

so if it is real, why isn't the terror alert higher?

a) if the terror alert goes up because of this tape 4 days before the elections, the bush administration could be accused of scaring people to vote for bush (wag the dog)

b) not wanting the above perception to happen, the bush team does not raise the terror alert hoping for the best.

[PacHead]

And one more thing, this contradicts the liberal lie that the terrorists wants Bush to win.

Anybody who believes that is not too bright. The terrorists are getting mowed down all across the globe, of course they want him to lose, something I have always said, and something this tape backs up.

[Busemann]

Originally posted by PacHead:
The terrorists are getting mowed down all across the globe, of course they want him to lose, something I have always said, and something this tape backs up.

The terrorists aren't getting "mowed down all across the globe".. Just because Bush says Saddam was behind 9/11 doesn't mean its true.

And one more thing, this contradicts the liberal lie that the terrorists wants Bush to win.

Anybody who believes that is not too bright.

How so? A socialistic Europe and right-wing America is the perfect recipe for tension.

[PacHead]

Originally posted by Busemann:
The terrorists aren't getting "mowed down all across the globe".. Just because Bush says Saddam was behind 9/11 doesn't mean its true.

How so? A socialistic Europe and right-wing America is the perfect recipe for tension.

Sure the terrorists are getting mowed down. We've caught plenty of Al-Qaeda types. Some are six feet under, some are in captivity.

In regards to Europe, look at where bombs are going off all the time. Seems like we're doing the right thing. Euroheads are free to pursue whichever method they please. Good luck. . . . .

[aberdeenwriter]

Originally posted by ironknee:
so if it is real, why isn't the terror alert higher?

a) if the terror alert goes up because of this tape 4 days before the elections, the bush administration could be accused of scaring people to vote for bush (wag the dog)

b) not wanting the above perception to happen, the bush team does not raise the terror alert hoping for the best.

That is so funny. (But not "Ha, ha" funny.)

Some of us have the advantage of seeing on these pages EXACTLY what happens when honest news is earnestly delivered to the public.

You're damned if you do and damned if you don't.

ABC paid $500 transportation costs for the tape. They did their best to have it verified. They broadcast what they had. The tape was submitted to the legal authorities who have nothing more to go on, or at least nothing more they can reveal. The public can take appropriate measures as they see fit.

Were the government to ratchet up the terror alert HALF THE COUNTRY (the left half) would be crying out that it was a hoax or an "October Surprise" tactic, as you've demonstrated.

[aberdeenwriter]

Originally posted by Icruise:
Damn right. We don't have nearly enough division and suspicion in this country.

There are ever changing dynamics within a family. Time and circumstances will heal those divisions. But when a member of the family is trying to kill Uncle Joe or Grandma Elizabeth, then that person has to be stopped.

I don't care how much you like your crazy Cousin Ted, you have to see the greater good is not to sympathize with him, provide him excuses or help him continue to kill your family...you must stop him.

If you don't, you are also culpable.

[typoon]

Originally posted by PacHead:
Sure the terrorists are getting mowed down. We've caught plenty of Al-Qaeda types. Some are six feet under, some are in captivity.

To bad not all of the bastards that we have catpured have been killed. We should do what it takes to wipe them from the face of the planet. As for this "American Al Qaeda" Member if he is ever captured they should treat him like the traitor he is. They should either shoot him on sight or they should hang him publicly. The only thing these animals understand is violence. We shouldn't listen to those who say that they should be treated with dignity and kindness. They don't treat there innocent captives that way. We shouldn't treat these scumbags that way either.

[PacHead]

Originally posted by typoon:
To bad not all of the bastards that we have catpured have been killed. We should do what it takes to wipe them from the face of the planet. As for this "American Al Qaeda" Member if he is ever captured they should treat him like the traitor he is. They should either shoot him on sight or they should hang him publicly. The only thing these animals understand is violence. We shouldn't listen to those who say that they should be treated with dignity and kindness. They don't treat there innocent captives that way. We shouldn't treat these scumbags that way either.

Yep, I don't believe we should even capture them and hold them. Once found guilty, they should die.

Look at the retards who are being let free from Gitmo. Quite a few are continuing their terrorist careers.

Once a muslim terrorist, always a muslim terrorist. Only way is to kill'em. Those people aren't going to change.

[aberdeenwriter]

Originally posted by Busemann:
The terrorists aren't getting "mowed down all across the globe".. Just because Bush says Saddam was behind 9/11 doesn't mean its true.

Just because the definitive truth hasn't yet emerged re: the al Qaeda-Iraq connection doesn't mean there wasn't one.

Originally posted by PacHead:
"The terrorists are getting mowed down all across the globe, of course they want him to lose, something I have always said, and something this tape backs up."

PacHead never said Saddam was behind 9/11.

But there is too much circumstantial evidence which does suggest a connection between them. A connection the PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES recognized and which prompted him to take actions to protect YOU rather than waiting around for the terrorists to kill you.

There were and are alQaeda and other fundamentalist terror groups operating within Iraq.

Zarqawi announced his alQaeda 'membership' last week.

Here's evidence of alQaeda fighting in Iraq from last year. If need be, I'll pull links showing alQaeda is in Iraq TODAY.

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/v-pf...6p-91025c.html

New York Daily News - http://www.nydailynews.com
Al Qaeda: We're Iraq resistance
By LAURA J. WINTER in Baghdad and DAVE GOLDINER in New York
DAILY NEWS WRITERS
Monday, July 14th, 2003
An Iraqi group claiming to be part of the Al Qaeda terror network said yesterday that its supporters - not Saddam Hussein's loyalists - are behind the recent string of deadly attacks on American troops.

The previously unknown group said in an audiotape aired on Arab TV that it would step up attacks in coming days and vowed a new strike to "break the back of America completely."

"I swear by God, no one from his [deposed dictator Saddam's] followers carried out any jihad operations like he claims," said the speaker, who said he represents a group called the Armed Islamic Movement for Al Qaeda, the Fallujah Branch.

"They [the attacks] are a result of our brothers in jihad," the speaker on the tape broadcast by Dubai-based Al Arabiya television said.

The new group's claims seemed to play on fierce resistance to the U.S. in the Sunni Muslim city of Fallujah, west of Baghdad. U.S. officials had no immediate comment on the authenticity of the tape, but a military spokesman in Baghdad said "anything is possible."

"It's likely some [attacks] could have been carried out by operatives trained by Al Qaeda," the spokesman said.

[Busemann]

Originally posted by aberdeenwriter:
Just because the definitive truth hasn't yet emerged re: the al Qaeda-Iraq connection doesn't mean there wasn't one.

Originally posted by PacHead:
"The terrorists are getting mowed down all across the globe, of course they want him to lose, something I have always said, and something this tape backs up."

PacHead never said Saddam was behind 9/11.

But there is too much circumstantial evidence which does suggest a connection between them. A connection the PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES recognized and which prompted him to take actions to protect YOU rather than waiting around for the terrorists to kill you.

There were and are alQaeda and other fundamentalist terror groups operating within Iraq.

Zarqawi announced his alQaeda 'membership' last week.

Here's evidence of alQaeda fighting in Iraq from last year. If need be, I'll pull links showing alQaeda is in Iraq TODAY.

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/v-pf...6p-91025c.html

New York Daily News - http://www.nydailynews.com
Al Qaeda: We're Iraq resistance
By LAURA J. WINTER in Baghdad and DAVE GOLDINER in New York
DAILY NEWS WRITERS
Monday, July 14th, 2003
An Iraqi group claiming to be part of the Al Qaeda terror network said yesterday that its supporters - not Saddam Hussein's loyalists - are behind the recent string of deadly attacks on American troops.

The previously unknown group said in an audiotape aired on Arab TV that it would step up attacks in coming days and vowed a new strike to "break the back of America completely."

"I swear by God, no one from his [deposed dictator Saddam's] followers carried out any jihad operations like he claims," said the speaker, who said he represents a group called the Armed Islamic Movement for Al Qaeda, the Fallujah Branch.

"They [the attacks] are a result of our brothers in jihad," the speaker on the tape broadcast by Dubai-based Al Arabiya television said.

The new group's claims seemed to play on fierce resistance to the U.S. in the Sunni Muslim city of Fallujah, west of Baghdad. U.S. officials had no immediate comment on the authenticity of the tape, but a military spokesman in Baghdad said "anything is possible."

"It's likely some [attacks] could have been carried out by operatives trained by Al Qaeda," the spokesman said.

how dense are you really?

[Busemann]

The al-qaeida links with Iraq is just a hoax. If anything, it's the US occupation that has led to Iraq being a haven for terrorists. Its quite ironic that just a few minutes ago, a free and seemingly healthy Bin Laden released a new video, three years after 9/11... It just goes to show it was a mistake to switch the main focus to Iraq before catching the guy who was responsible for 9/11.

'nuff said

[mikellanes]

Originally posted by Busemann:
It just goes to show it was a mistake to switch the main focus to Iraq before catching the guy who was responsible for 9/11.

PRESIDENT BUSH:__"I don't know where he is.__I__--__I'll repeat what I said.__I truly am not that concerned about him [Osama Bin Laden]"

[aberdeenwriter]

Originally posted by Busemann:
how dense are you really?

Oh, I can be pretty dense. Too dense for you. Really.

[Busemann]

Originally posted by aberdeenwriter:
Oh, I can be pretty dense.

yeah, you seem to lack a basic grasp of what you are talking about, heh

[aberdeenwriter]

Originally posted by Busemann:
yeah, you seem to lack a basic grasp of what you are talking about, heh

heh


Find this article at:
http://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/meast/...qawi.statement
_
Al-Zarqawi group claims allegiance to bin Laden

'We will listen to your orders,' group tells al Qaeda boss


DUBAI, United Arab Emirates (CNN) -- A statement attributed to Abu Musab al-Zarqawi's militant group declared allegiance to al Qaeda leader Osama bin Laden on Sunday.

The statement, posted on Islamist Web sites, addressed bin Laden as "the sheik" and said al-Zarqawi's Unification and Jihad movement "badly needed" to join forces with al Qaeda.

"We will listen to your orders," it said. "If you ask us to join the war, we will do it and we will listen to your instructions. If you stop us from doing something, we will abide by your instructions."

U.S. officials have said they believe the Jordanian-born al-Zarqawi is in the insurgent-held city of Falluja, west of Baghdad, and numerous American airstrikes have targeted buildings believed to house his followers in recent weeks.

Unification and Jihad has claimed responsibility for the killings of numerous Westerners in Iraq, including the recent slayings of two Americans and a Briton kidnapped in September.

At least two audiotapes have appeared on Web sites over the past several months that CIA officials have attributed to al-Zarqawi, in which he claimed credit for attacks on coalition forces.

On a tape in April, al-Zarqawi claimed credit for the bombing of the U.N. headquarters in Baghdad on August 19, 2003, that killed 22 civilians, including the U.N.'s chief envoy to Iraq, Sergio Vieira de Mello. (Full story)

He also is suspected in the bombing of the Jordanian Embassy in Baghdad two weeks earlier that killed at least 16 people.

On the most recent tape, in July, al-Zarqawi threatened to kill Iraqi interim Prime Minister Ayad Allawi; Gen. John Abizaid, commander of the U.S. Central Command in Iraq; and L. Paul Bremer, who was then the U.S. civilian administrator in Iraq.

Jordan and the United States suspect al-Zarqawi of planning the death of U.S. diplomat Laurence Foley, who was killed in October 2002 in Amman.

A Jordanian court convicted him in absentia of planning to bomb tourist hotels during millennium celebrations.

On Sunday, a Jordanian prosecutor indicted al-Zarqawi and 12 others on charges of plotting to attack targets in that country with chemical and conventional weapons.

In June, the U.S. State Department put a $25 million price on al-Zarqawi's head, saying he had "a long-standing connection to the senior leadership of al Qaeda." (Full story)

Officials have said al-Zarqawi, who is said to be skilled in chemical and biological weapons, is not known to have been a member of al Qaeda, but evidence suggests he was in contact with key figures of the terrorist network.

Other observers consider al-Zarqawi a potential rival to bin Laden, whose group was behind the terrorist attacks of September 11, 2001, in the United States.

Sunday's statement said al-Zarqawi has "exchanged views" with al Qaeda over the past eight months.

"[Al Qaeda] showed understanding for our strategy, and they showed their support for our strategy and style and system," the group's statement said.

Before the invasion of Iraq, U.S. intelligence reports suggested al-Zarqawi had his leg amputated in a Baghdad hospital after being wounded fighting U.S. forces in Afghanistan. The allegation was part of Secretary of State Colin Powell's presentation to the U.N. Security Council in February 2003, in which he laid out the U.S. case for war.

But in April, a senior U.S. official said that report had been called into question: al-Zarqawi was still thought to have received medical treatment in Baghdad, but reports that he had his leg amputated appeared to have been incorrect, a U.S. official said.

Powell held up al-Zarqawi's al Qaeda-affiliated group operating in Baghdad as evidence of ties between al Qaeda and Iraq. He told the Security Council that after al Qaeda and the Taliban were ousted from Afghanistan, al-Zarqawi established a camp in northeastern Iraq to train terrorists in using explosives and poisons.

Intelligence services disagreed whether the camp was linked to Saddam's regime, and Iraqi officials steadfastly denied they had any links to al Qaeda, insisting such charges were part of a U.S. disinformation effort to justify a military attack.

Powell said that during al-Zarqawi's stay in Baghdad, nearly two dozen of his associates set up a base of operations in the capital to move people, money and supplies throughout the country.

CNN.com's Caroline Faraj contributed to this report.

_
_

[aberdeenwriter]

Originally posted by Busemann:
yeah, you seem to lack a basic grasp of what you are talking about, heh

heh

What type of terrorist groups has Iraq supported?
Primarily groups that can hurt Saddam’s regional foes. Saddam has aided the Iranian dissident group Mujahedeen-e-Khalq and the Kurdistan Workers’ Party (known by its Turkish initials, PKK), a separatist group fighting the Turkish government. Moreover, Iraq has hosted several Palestinian splinter groups that oppose peace with Israel, including the mercenary Abu Nidal Organization, whose leader, Abu Nidal, was found dead in Baghdad in August 2002. Iraq has also supported the Islamist Hamas movement and reportedly channeled money to the families of Palestinian suicide bombers. A secular dictator, Saddam tended to support secular terrorist groups rather than Islamists such as al-Qaeda, experts say.

[aberdeenwriter]

Originally posted by Busemann:
yeah, you seem to lack a basic grasp of what you are talking about, heh

heh

http://www.foxnews.com.edgesuite.net...103028,00.html

U.S. Names Groups Behind Iraq Attacks

Thursday, November 13, 2003

WASHINGTON_—_U.S. intelligence agencies have identified several guerrilla groups, including one whose name calls for_Saddam Hussein (search)'s return, that they now believe are behind much of the anti-U.S. violence in Iraq.

The top general in the region,_Gen. John Abizaid (search), estimated Thursday that insurgent fighters in Iraq total no more than 5,000, and he said the largest and most dangerous groups are Saddam loyalists.

"I would say that this group of Baathists [Saddam loyalists], by far, represents the greatest threat to peace and stability," the general said.

Abizaid, the chief of U.S. Central Command, did not provide details, but said the insurgent forces have considerable training and supplies, plus money from stashes left over from Saddam's rule and from sources outside Iraq "that are not clear to us."

Other officials, who spoke to The Associated Press on condition of anonymity, described some of the major guerrilla groups they believe have taken shape in Iraq.

The most significant,_The Return Party (search), is composed primarily of members of Saddam's Baath Party, the officials said. Another, Muhammad's Army, appears to be run by former chiefs of Saddam's security services.

Other threats include Sunni Islamic extremists, some from outside the country, and Shiite extremists who may be receiving support from others in Iran.

Much remains murky about these opposition forces, the officials acknowledged. And most of the major bombings and attacks against U.S. and other Western targets remain unsolved.

But defense and other American officials familiar with Iraqi intelligence say they are making some headway into characterizing the guerrillas. Identifying the groups and their support structures has been a major stumbling block to U.S. efforts in Iraq.

The groups are all using classic guerrilla tactics: bombings, snipings and hit-and-run attacks, and at least some are using homicide bombers, officials said. While the groups have varying degrees of organization and capability, their emergence in the months since Saddam was ousted suggests the U.S. could be facing a sustained insurgency from several fronts.

Chief among the identified guerrilla groups are:

-- The Return Party: Considered the most significant insurgent group in Iraq, although officials could not put a figure to its size. It is composed primarily of members of Saddam's Baath Party and maintains the party's prewar structure, with regional and local organizations.

Its name refers to the return of Saddam to power, which is the group's goal. The group is strongest in Baghdad as well as in central and western Iraq, in the provinces of Salahaddin and Anbar. It is also thought to be distributing materials aimed at frightening Iraqis away from cooperating with American forces.

One U.S. defense official said members of this group may be working with Islamic extremists.

-- Muhammad's Army: This group, also seeking to return Saddam to power, consists of at least several hundred former members of Iraq's intelligence and security services.

Members are thought to be primarily targeting Iraqis who are working with American and other occupation forces. A group with this name is one of several that claimed responsibility for the Aug. 19 bombing of U.N. headquarters in Baghdad.

The group is strongest in Baghdad, Mosul and Fallujah. How closely it is working with the Return Party is unclear.

-- Saddam's Fedayeen: Elements of the Fedayeen, one of Saddam's prewar irregular militias, continue to operate separately from other insurgents, U.S. officials say.

Most of the Iraqi forces supporting Saddam's return are from the country's Sunni minority but are thought to be motivated by politics rather than religion.

U.S. officials also have identified several groups they label as extremist:

-- Muntada al-Wilaya: A Shiite extremist group operating in Baghdad and southern Iraq. It wants to eject American forces and set up an Islamic state like Iran's. American officials have suspicions that this group is linked to the Qods Force, an Iranian special forces unit that reports to the religious government in Tehran, and to Lebanese Hezbollah.

-- Ansar al-Islam: A Sunni group, composed primarily of ethnic Kurds from Iraq's north, that U.S. officials say has ties to the Al Qaeda terror network. Members may be acting as local fixers for foreign Al Qaeda members entering Iraq.

-- Abu Musab Zarqawi: A man, not a group, with Al Qaeda ties. This Jordanian is thought to be working with Ansar al-Islam but also leads his own network in Iraq.

Various U.S. officials have also spoken generally of "foreign fighters" as a threat. While some may be operating under Al Qaeda's umbrella, many are thought to be lone actors or small groups inspired to wage jihad, or religiously motivated war, against U.S. forces.

In addition, the U.S. defense official said members of more than two dozen non-governmental organizations operating in Iraq are suspected of supplying logistical and intelligence assistance to anti-U.S. fighters. The official did not name any, however.

[aberdeenwriter]

Originally posted by Busemann:
yeah, you seem to lack a basic grasp of what you are talking about, heh

Oh, B use(d by the terrorists)mann,

Because I lack a basic grasp of things, please enlighten me as to what would make you stop providing support and encouragement to the enemy who wants you dead?

Please use small words as I'm kinda dense.

[aberdeenwriter]

Originally posted by Busemann:
yeah, you seem to lack a basic grasp of what you are talking about, heh

http://www.state.gov/s/ct/rls/pgtrpt...html/10249.htm
__
Patterns of Global Terrorism__ -2001
Released by the Office of the Coordinator for Counterterrorism
May 21, 2002
Overview of State-Sponsored Terrorism

"Every nation in every region now has a decision to make. Either you are with us, or you are with the terrorists."

Iraq

Iraq was the only Arab-Muslim country that did not condemn the September 11 attacks against the United States. A commentary of the official Iraqi station on September 11 stated that America was "…reaping the fruits of [its] crimes against humanity." Subsequent commentary in a newspaper run by one of Saddam’s sons expressed sympathy for Usama Bin Ladin following initial US retaliatory strikes in Afghanistan. In addition, the regime continued to provide training and political encouragement to numerous terrorist groups, although its main focus was on dissident Iraqi activity overseas.

Iraq provided bases to several terrorist groups including the Mujahedin-e-Khalq (MEK), the Kurdistan Workers’ Party (PKK), the Palestine Liberation Front (PLF), and the Abu Nidal organization (ANO). In 2001, the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine (PFLP) raised its profile in the West Bank and Gaza Strip by carrying out successful terrorist attacks against Israeli targets. In recognition of the PFLP’s growing role, an Iraqi Vice President met with former PFLP Secretary General Habbash in Baghdad in January 2001 and expressed continued Iraqi support for the intifadah. Also, in mid-September, a senior delegation from the PFLP met with an Iraqi Deputy Prime Minister. Baghdad also continued to host other Palestinian rejectionist groups, including the Arab Liberation Front, and the 15 May Organization.

Meanwhile, Czech police continued to provide protection to the Prague office of the US Government-funded Radio Free Europe/Radio Liberty (RFE/RL), which produces Radio Free Iraq programs and employs expatriate journalists. The police presence was augmented in 1999 and 2000, following reports that the Iraqi Intelligence Service might retaliate against RFE/RL for broadcasts critical of the Iraqi regime. As concerns over the facility’s security mounted through 2000, the Czechs expelled an Iraqi intelligence officer in April 2001.

The Iraqi regime has not met a request from Riyadh for the extradition of two Saudis who had hijacked a Saudi Arabian Airlines flight to Baghdad in 2000. Disregarding its obligations under international law, the regime granted political asylum to the hijackers and gave them ample opportunity to voice their criticisms of alleged abuses by the Saudi Government in the Iraqi Government-controlled and international media.

[Saad]

Originally posted by mikellanes:
PRESIDENT BUSH:__"I don't know where he is.__I__--__I'll repeat what I said.__I truly am not that concerned about him [Osama Bin Laden]"

My favorite debate moment.

[Busemann]

Aberdeenwriter, we all agree Iraq and Saddam was bad news, just as there was/is a lot of states in the middle east that is.. What we disagree upon is whether or not it was right to invade in early 2003 when the real terrorists are still at large.

[Busemann]

Also, I haven't had time to read through everything you've copy-pasted in this thread (do you think you look more knowledgeable by posting lots of text?), but some of it seems to be quite wrong and inaccurate. For instance, Ansar al-islam has later been proven to not have ties with al-qaida afaik. Its leader has gotten all of his charges dropped at least. Also, most of it seems to rehash the sentiment that Iraq has seen a spurge of terrorism post 2003 (which I don't contradict)...

[aberdeenwriter]

Originally posted by Busemann:
Aberdeenwriter, we all agree Iraq and Saddam was bad news, just as there was/is a lot of states in the middle east that is.. What we disagree upon is whether or not it was right to invade in early 2003 when the real terrorists are still at large.

Your guy Kerry said it was "smart."

http://www.zwire.com/site/news.cfm?n...4551&rfi=6

To fully appreciate the scurrilous disingenuousness of Kerry’s current rhetoric on the subject, consider this Kerry remark on CNN’s "Crossfire" program in 1997:"We know we can’t count on the French. We know we can’t count on the Russians. We know that Iraq is a danger to the U.S., and we reserve the right to take pre-emptive action whenever we feel it’s in our national interest."
The Kerry campaign has been a chronicle of second-guessing on our military operations in Afghanistan and Iraq to root out and destroy hotbeds of terrorism. A favorite bit of Kerry Monday morning quaterbacking, for example, is his campaign spiel that the Bush administration botched the effort to capture Osama bin Laden in Afghanistan by "outsourcing" the assignment to Northern Alliance forces, enabling the terror kingpin to slip through his encirclement atTora Bora. Contrast this rhetoric with Kerry’s comments at the time (Dec. 14, 2001) in a televised interview on this very issue. "I think we have been smart," he said. "I think the administration’s leadership has done it well. We are on the right track." Kerry then added: "I think we have been doing this pretty effectively. We should continue to do it that way."

[aberdeenwriter]

Originally posted by Busemann:
Also, I haven't had time to read through everything you've copy-pasted in this thread (do you think you look more knowledgeable by posting lots of text?), but some of it seems to be quite wrong and inaccurate. For instance, Ansar al-islam has later been proven to not have ties with al-qaida afaik. Its leader has gotten all of his charges dropped at least. Also, most of it seems to rehash the sentiment that Iraq has seen a spurge of terrorism post 2003 (which I don't contradict)...

I find by pasting just the part in question people come back with ignorant replies (not referring to you, but some folks) or questions.

When I post just the link, the same thing happens, but worse.

By posting a paragraph or two I get the info out there, in context which, hopefully, settles the point and (even MORE hopefully) raises the knowledge level of the PL community.

Not referring to you, but it bothers me when people just ignore the facts because it's too difficult to click on a link.

[Taliesin]

Originally posted by aberdeenwriter:
Because I lack a basic grasp of things, please enlighten me as to what would make you stop providing support and encouragement to the enemy who wants you dead?

Please use small words as I'm kinda dense.

On this one, Busemann is right. You even support his point by posting these articles that talk about the involvement of Al-Kaida in the resistance in Iraq, because before the Iraq-war there was no Al-Kaida in Iraq, because Saddam Hussein, the US-bastard, prosecuted, tortured and killed the radical islamists in his country, so that Al-Kaida couldn't get a foot upon it. At the same time he also prosecuted, tortured and killed communists.

Busemann has really let you go off the cliff with that one, actually very mean of him.

Taliesin