[PacHead]

You live in a state where Bush gets a majority ? Kaboom ! You will die infidel !

This is the new translation that is coming out of Al-Qaeda websites explaining Bin Ladens latest message.

Basically, vote for Kerry, and you will be spared, you infidel.

Vote for Bush, and your state will be targeted, you infidel.

And, any moron claiming Bin Laden wants Bush to win now, is just that, a lying moron, as Bin Laden has made it clear who he wants to win, something I have always claimed. How dumb are certain people ? Of course the primitive, cavedwelling scum wants Kerry to win.

The tape of Osama bin Laden that was aired on Al-Jazeera(1) on Friday, October 29th included a specific threat to "each U.S. state," designed to influence the outcome of the upcoming election against George W. Bush. The U.S. media in general mistranslated the words "ay wilaya" (which means "each U.S. state")(2) to mean a "country" or "nation" other than the U.S., while in fact the threat was directed specifically at each individual U.S. state. This suggests some knowledge by bin Laden of the U.S. electoral college system. In a section of his speech in which he harshly criticized George W. Bush, bin Laden stated: "Any U.S. state that does not toy with our security automatically guarantees its own security."

The Islamist website Al-Qal'a explained what this sentence meant: "This message was a warning to every U.S. state separately. When he [Osama Bin Laden] said, 'Every state will be determining its own security, and will be responsible for its choice,' it means that any U.S. state that will choose to vote for the white thug Bush as president has chosen to fight us, and we will consider it our enemy, and any state that will vote against Bush has chosen to make peace with us, and we will not characterize it as an enemy. By this characterization, Sheikh Osama wants to drive a wedge in the American body, to weaken it, and he wants to divide the American people itself between enemies of Islam and the Muslims, and those who fight for us, so that he doesn't treat all American people as if they're the same. This letter will have great implications inside the American society, part of which are connected to the American elections, and part of which are connected to what will come after the elections."(3)

http://www.memri.org/bin/latestnews.cgi?ID=SA1404

[warmspit]

YAWN.



terrorism only works if you accept the fear. Cheney has been making veiled and not so veiled threats against americans who don't vote for Bush for the last couple of months: VOTE BUSH/CHENEY OR SUFFER A NUCLEAR TERRORIST ATTACK.

its old. get over it. What it SHOULD tell you is that bush cannot keep us safe, could not even catch Bin ladin...this should point to both the complexity of the issue and the incompetence of the commander in chief. Why right wing nutjobs think it supports their candidate to get scary death threats....is beyond me.

[OldManMac]

warmspit,

[PacHead]

Originally posted by warmspit:
YAWN.

No kidding, Osama's threat is just that, an empty, impotent threat. If he could've bombed us, he would've have. Now he is left to releasing ridiculous videotapes with stupid threats. Anybody who lets Osama influence their decision is a spineless moron.

[icruise]

Bullsh!t.

The sentence immediately preceding the sentence in question is "your security does not depend on Bush or Kerry." You're trying to tell us that he followed that by saying that he'll attack any states that vote for Bush? And you're saying that every news organization and the White House itself got the meaning of this message wrong?

[Luca Rescigno]

Cheney Vows To Attack U.S. If Kerry Elected

[Rolling Bones]

[PacHead]

The truth/real life/facts is obviously hard for the masturbating left to handle. . . . .

[icruise]

Originally posted by PacHead:
The truth/real life/facts is obviously hard for the masturbating left to handle. . . . .

Actually, I think the majority of masturbators uses their right...

[Rolling Bones]

Originally posted by Icruise:
Actually, I think the majority of masturbators uses their right...

[RAILhead]

What's truly frightening is how much Osama sounds like a the current, public Democratic party. I mean, it REALLY sounds like he's reading the Dem's talking points verbatim.

Further, I'd hate to be a Democrat and know that all the things I've been saying and thinking for so long jibe with those of Osama. Talk about a wake-up call -- when my opinions and thoughts are echoed by a global terrorist, I'd start rethinking my opinions...

Maury

[RAILhead]

Originally posted by Icruise:
Bullsh!t.

The sentence immediately preceding the sentence in question is "your security does not depend on Bush or Kerry." You're trying to tell us that he followed that by saying that he'll attack any states that vote for Bush? And you're saying that every news organization and the White House itself got the meaning of this message wrong?

Wrong, mien kapitan -- check your sources again. It WAS translated incorrectly at first, but everyone is now agreeing on an updated translation -- which concurs with various Arab web sites -- and he DID mean each individual state.

Well, I guess I'm next since I'm in Texas and we're into oil big time. Not to mention the space program and weapons development. I guess I'll gather up my supplies and get ready for the attack.

Oh wait.

We haven't been attacked in Sept 11, 2001. Thanks President Bush!

Maury

[Logic]

Originally posted by RAILhead:
We haven't been attacked in Sept 11, 2001. Thanks President Bush!

Maury

I'm sure your troops in Iraq agree.....

And just for fun. Name the last two terrorist attacks on US soil committed by international terrorists and the dates of the attacks.

[andi*pandi]

if you let the terrorists influence your vote, they've already won.

if these are even the terrorists.

[warmspit]

Originally posted by PacHead:
No kidding, Osama's threat is just that, an empty, impotent threat. If he could've bombed us, he would've have. Now he is left to releasing ridiculous videotapes with stupid threats. Anybody who lets Osama influence their decision is a spineless moron.

If you think that, why this thread?

[icruise]

Originally posted by RAILhead:
What's truly frightening is how much Osama sounds like a the current, public Democratic party. I mean, it REALLY sounds like he's reading the Dem's talking points verbatim.

Further, I'd hate to be a Democrat and know that all the things I've been saying and thinking for so long jibe with those of Osama. Talk about a wake-up call -- when my opinions and thoughts are echoed by a global terrorist, I'd start rethinking my opinions...

Maury

Which parts sound like the democratic party's talking points exactly?

[icruise]

Originally posted by RAILhead:
Wrong, mien kapitan -- check your sources again. It WAS translated incorrectly at first, but everyone is now agreeing on an updated translation -- which concurs with various Arab web sites -- and he DID mean each individual state.

So show me a few of these. The only thing I've found is a Washington Post article that just talks about the same article quoted at the beginning of this thread.

[icruise]

The point is that whether the words in question are translated as "states" or "united states" does not really matter. It takes a lot of twisting to get from "Each and every state that does not tamper with our security will have automatically assured its own security" (here) to "vote for Bush and your state will be attacked" especially given the previous sentence ("Your security does not lie in the hands of Kerry, Bush, or al-Qaeda.")

[swrate]

There is a much longer transcript on Aljaheera.Net, with in depth "justification" for his politics. (OBL's attitude and speech were those of a politician, imo)

[warmspit]

Originally posted by RAILhead:
What's truly frightening is how much Osama sounds like a the current, public Democratic party. I mean, it REALLY sounds like he's reading the Dem's talking points verbatim.

Further, I'd hate to be a Democrat and know that all the things I've been saying and thinking for so long jibe with those of Osama. Talk about a wake-up call -- when my opinions and thoughts are echoed by a global terrorist, I'd start rethinking my opinions...

Maury

or, when even a terrorist can plainly see what is wrong with this administration, I'd start rethinking your support of Bush.

btw: I find your attempt to paint democrats with the same brush as bin ladin reprehensible and beneath the dignity of this forum, what little it has. IMHO

[eklipse]

Originally posted by PacHead:

Fixed.

[PacHead]

Originally posted by warmspit:
or, when even a terrorist can plainly see what is wrong with this administration, I'd start rethinking your support of Bush.

btw: I find your attempt to paint democrats with the same brush as bin ladin reprehensible and beneath the dignity of this forum, what little it has. IMHO

Oh, so bin laden thinks Bush is bad. Yep, better rethink my position.

BTW - You appear to agree with bin laden, so I don't think painting certain people's thought patterns with the same brush as bin laden is inappropriate.

[PacHead]

Originally posted by eklipse:

Fixed. . . . .

[eklipse]

Originally posted by Icruise:
The point is that whether the words in question are translated as "states" or "united states" does not really matter. It takes a lot of twisting to get from "Each and every state that does not tamper with our security will have automatically assured its own security" (here) to "vote for Bush and your state will be attacked" especially given the previous sentence ("Your security does not lie in the hands of Kerry, Bush, or al-Qaeda.")

Exactly. Bin Laden was referring to the United states but he in no way implied that voting for Bush would incur an attack.

[Nicko]

Face it, without Bin Laden, Bush is nothing.

Think about it.

[PacHead]

Originally posted by eklipse:
Exactly. Bin Laden was referring to the United states but he in no way implied that voting for Bush would incur an attack.

Sure. . . . . . . That's just your wishful thinking & interpretation.

Afraid Bush is gonna win ?

[eklipse]

Originally posted by PacHead:
Afraid Bush is gonna win ?

Couldn't give a crap, bub.

[warmspit]

Originally posted by PacHead:
Oh, so bin laden thinks Bush is bad. Yep, better rethink my position.

BTW - You appear to agree with bin laden, so I don't think painting certain people's thought patterns with the same brush as bin laden is inappropriate.

small minds are overtaxed easily.

[PacHead]

Originally posted by eklipse:
Couldn't give a crap, bub.

Yeah sure, I don't believe you to be quite honest. . . .

[PacHead]

Originally posted by warmspit:
small minds are overtaxed easily.

Yep, bring on the cheap insults you liberal terrorist lovers.

[swrate]

Rainbow country

and jimi's "Star spangled banner" the New Cold War.

[itai195]

Originally posted by RAILhead:
What's truly frightening is how much Osama sounds like a the current, public Democratic party. I mean, it REALLY sounds like he's reading the Dem's talking points verbatim.

Further, I'd hate to be a Democrat and know that all the things I've been saying and thinking for so long jibe with those of Osama. Talk about a wake-up call -- when my opinions and thoughts are echoed by a global terrorist, I'd start rethinking my opinions...

Maury

Wow, so you're lowering yourself to this level, eh?

[PacHead]

Originally posted by itai195:
Wow, so you're lowering yourself to this level, eh?

That's basically true.

If one were just to read the transcripts of what certain people say/claim, one would have a very hard time distuingishing between Bin Laden and certain Democrats. Mind you, not all, just certain ones. (The far left, loony, traitorous ones)

[itai195]

Originally posted by PacHead:
That's basically true.

If one were just to read the transcripts of what certain people say/claim, one would have a very hard time distuingishing between Bin Laden and certain Democrats. Mind you, not all, just certain ones. (The far left, loony, traitorous ones)

There are about a million ways I could respond to this. But I'll take the high road this time and just point out RH was talking about Democratic talking points, which presumably are quite different from the views of some on the far left.

[warmspit]

Originally posted by PacHead:
Yep, bring on the cheap insults you liberal terrorist lovers.

MY, my. we've strayed from the talking points. remember, its "liberal SADDAM-sympathizers, not liberal OBL sympathizers...remember, SADDAM is behind 9/11, not OBL, according to Cheney..

time for you to check yourself back into the Limbaugh re-education center and stop these thoughtcrimes.

[typoon]

Originally posted by warmspit:
or, when even a terrorist can plainly see what is wrong with this administration, I'd start rethinking your support of Bush.

btw: I find your attempt to paint democrats with the same brush as bin ladin reprehensible and beneath the dignity of this forum, what little it has. IMHO

It's the wrong adminstration because they KNOW that Bush is taking to them and trying to fight them. They don't want you to fight them they just want to convert you. When you fight they KILL you. When you "assimilate" like good sheeple then no one gets hurt.

[itai195]

Originally posted by typoon:
It's the wrong adminstration because they KNOW that Bush is taking to them and trying to fight them. They don't want you to fight them they just want to convert you. When you fight they KILL you. When you "assimilate" like good sheeple then no one gets hurt.

That doesn't make much sense. They killed lots of people during Clinton's term, was Clinton also fighting them?

[typoon]

Originally posted by Logic:
I'm sure your troops in Iraq agree.....

And just for fun. Name the last two terrorist attacks on US soil committed by international terrorists and the dates of the attacks.

Not sure about 2 But I can sure name you one. The 1993 WTC bombing.

[typoon]

Originally posted by itai195:
That doesn't make much sense. They killed lots of people during Clinton's term, was Clinton also fighting them?

NOt as actively as this president is. When you are offered the head of a terrorist organization basically on a silver platter and DON'T take him 3 times. To me that is NOT fighting terrorism. Firing some missles is not fighting terrorism.

How did Clinton Fight terrorism?

[itai195]

Originally posted by typoon:
NOt as actively as this president is. When you are offered the head of a terrorist organization basically on a silver platter and DON'T take him 3 times. To me that is NOT fighting terrorism. Firing some missles is not fighting terrorism.

How did Clinton Fight terrorism?

You said that they kill Americans when we fight them. I pointed out that they killed Americans during Clinton's term, and presumably you believe Clinton didn't fight them (or didn't fight them enough). So how do you resolve the inconsistency in this logic?

[RAILhead]

Originally posted by eklipse:
Exactly. Bin Laden was referring to the United states but he in no way implied that voting for Bush would incur an attack.

New York Post.

Partial quote form the article:

MEMRI said radical Islamist commentators monitored over the Internet this past weekend also interpreted the key passage of bin Laden's diatribe to mean that any U.S. state that votes to elect Bush on Tuesday will be considered an "enemy" and any state that votes for Kerry has "chosen to make peace with us."

The statement in question is when bin Laden said on the tape: "Your security is up to you, and any state that does not toy with our security automatically guarantees its own security."

That sentence followed a lengthy passage in the video in which bin Laden launches personal attacks on the president.

Yigal Carmon, president of MEMRI, said bin Laden used the Arabic term "ay-wilaya" to refer to a "state" in that sentence.

That term "specifically refers to an American state, like Tennessee," Carmon said, adding that if bin Laden were referring to a "country" he would have used the Arabic word "dawla."

MEMRI also translated an analysis of bin Laden's statement from the Islamist Web site al-Qal'a, well known for posting al-Qaeda messages, which agreed that bin Laden's use of the word "ay-wilaya" was meant as a "warning to every U.S state separately."

"It means that any U.S. state that will choose to vote for the white thug Bush as president, it means that it chose to fight us and we will consider it an enemy to us, and any state that will vote against Bush, it means that it chose to make peace with us and we will not characterize it as an enemy," the Web site said, according to MEMRI's translation.

[Wiskedjak]

Originally posted by PacHead:
That's basically true.

If one were just to read the transcripts of what certain people say/claim, one would have a very hard time distuingishing between Bin Laden and certain Democrats. Mind you, not all, just certain ones. (The far left, loony, traitorous ones)

Are you suggesting that "certain Democrats" are threatening to attack the US?

[icruise]

Originally posted by RAILhead:
New York Post.

Partial quote form the article:

Again, what we are looking at is a third party interpretation of the meaning of this speech. The web site called al-Qal'a does not represent Al Qaida or bin Laden, and frankly their interpretation doesn't make sense. If bin Laden wanted to say what you say he said, don't you think he would have actually done so?

"It means that any U.S. state that will choose to vote for the white thug Bush as president, it means that it chose to fight us and we will consider it an enemy to us, and any state that will vote against Bush, it means that it chose to make peace with us and we will not characterize it as an enemy," the Web site said, according to MEMRI's translation.

Just so no one will misunderstand, the "translation" in question is MEMRI's translation of the web site, not of the speech. In fact, if you look at the web site in question you will see that it is an internet forum, just like this one. Do you think people should be making policy decisions based on information taken from MacNN?

[eklipse]

Originally posted by RAILhead:
New York Post.

Partial quote form the article:

What's your point?

That some 'radical commentators' and/or a Zionist propaganda outlet misunderstood or chose to misinterpret what Bin Laden actually said?

[Isaac]

Originally posted by Icruise:
Bullsh!t.

The sentence immediately preceding the sentence in question is "your security does not depend on Bush or Kerry." You're trying to tell us that he followed that by saying that he'll attack any states that vote for Bush? And you're saying that every news organization and the White House itself got the meaning of this message wrong?

no one has even attempted to refute this... if Osama doesn't belive that either Bush or Kerry will make a difference, then why would he care if Bush or Kerry won?.... he didn't say vote for bush and die, he said: "Each and every state that does not tamper with our security will have automatically assured its own security"... now, does this say to vote for Kerry?... and yes, Osama is smart enough to know that Kerry isn't going to change US policy in any significant way....


furthermore, Osama has stated his intrest, before 9.11, to be
a) end US support of the Saudi Crown
b) end US support of Israel
now, it's true that:
a) the Saudi regime is tyranal
b) maintained in power with the aid of the US government
c) revolt in Saudi Arabia is not feasiable because of US forign policy
d) Israel's policys towards it's neigbors and occupants are at the absolutle very leasy heavy handed

[UR-20]

Originally posted by PacHead:
How dumb are certain people ? Of course the primitive, cavedwelling scum wants Kerry to win.

I've always wondered...how dumb 'certain' people are...

[Rygar]

Originally posted by PacHead:
Anybody who lets Osama influence their decision is a spineless moron.

Agreed, and the same goes for anyone who lets you influence their vote.

warmspit: "Small minds are overtaxed easily."

Pachead: "Yep, bring on the cheap insults you liberal
terrorist lovers."

I gotta say Pac, the irony is not lost on me.


Pachead: He started it!

[vmarks]

Originally posted by itai195:


There are about a million ways I could respond to this. But I'll take the high road this time and just point out RH was talking about Democratic talking points, which presumably are quite different from the views of some on the far left.

http://www.zombietime.com/obl_video/..._kerry_quotes/

http://deadcantrant.com/blog/2004/10...talking-points

http://newsmax.com/archives/ic/2004/10/30/95420.shtml

It is interesting to say the least, the coincidence of word choice that survives even after translation.

[effgee]

Originally posted by PacHead:
http://www.memri.org/bin/latestnews.cgi?ID=SA1404

You cite "MEMRI" as a source for "news"?? You have got to be kidding. That's like giving the folks at moveon.org a call and asking them for an opinion about George W. Bush so you could post it here as "objective" information ...

• "... Mrs Wurmser, an ultra-Zionist opponent of the Oslo peace process ... Along with Yigal Carmon, a former colonel in Israeli military intelligence, she was also co-founder of the Middle East Media Research Institute (Memri), which circulates translations from the Arabic media to "opinion formers" in the west. ..."

Rrrrrright.

[UR-20]

Originally posted by effgee:
You cite "MEMRI" as a source for "news"?? You have got to be kidding. That's like giving the folks at moveon.org a call and asking them for an opinion about George W. Bush so you could post it here as "objective" information ...

It's just as valid for 'objective' political news as this site.