[NYCFarmboy]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/4228739.stm

Five million Germans out of work

Germany's unemployment figure rose above the psychologically important level of five million last month.

On Wednesday, the German Federal Labour Agency said the jobless total had reached 5.037 million in January, which takes the jobless rate to 12.1%.

"Yes, we have effectively more than five million people unemployed," a government minister said earlier on ZDF public television.

Unemployment has not been this high in Germany since the 1930s.

Changing calculations

Changes to the way the statistics are compiled partly explain the jump of 572,900 in the numbers.

But the figures are embarrassing for the government.

"With the figures apparently the worst we've seen in the post-war period, these numbers are very charged politically," said Christian Jasperneite, an economist with MM Warburg.

"They could well put an end to the recent renaissance we've seen by the SPD [the ruling Social Democrats] in the polls, and with state elections due in Schleswig-Holstein and North Rhine-Westphalia, they may have an adverse effect on the government's chances there."

Worse to come

The opposition also made political capital from the figures. It said there are a further 1.5 million-2 million people on subsidised employment schemes who are, in fact, looking for real jobs.

It added that government reforms, including unpopular benefit cuts, do not go far enough.

Under the government's controversial "Hartz IV" reforms, which came into effect at the beginning of the year, both those on unemployment benefits and welfare support and those who are long-term unemployed are officially classified as looking for work.

The bad winter weather also took its toll, as key sectors such as the construction sector laid off workers.

Adjusted for the seasonal factors, the German jobless total rose by 227,000 in January from December.

[BoomStick]

Can't they just live off the utopian welfare state and never have to work again?

[saab95]

Originally posted by BoomStick:
Can't they just live off the utopian welfare state and never have to work again?

Sure, why not?

In Nazi Germany, there was no unemployment.

[NYCFarmboy]

Originally posted by BoomStick:
Can't they just live off the utopian welfare state and never have to work again?

I don't think Germans will stand for this much longer. Most Germans have a very high work ethic. However the point has been reached that there are not enough workers to pay for for the unemployed.

It is just extremely difficult to get a job in Germany because of the restrictions made on employers in terms of rules/hours of work/days of work etc that make it prohibitively expensive to hire people.

Schroeder is in a pickle.. he is a left wing socialist but to get the economy going he is going to have to reform work/union rules that would allow German companies to begin hiring again...but those reforms are VERY unpopular with his own party's constituents.

[TETENAL]

Originally posted by NYCFarmboy:
It is just extremely difficult to get a job in Germany because of the restrictions made on employers in terms of rules/hours of work/days of work etc that make it prohibitively expensive to hire people.

That's not the main problem. The main problem is that east Germany has no economy.

[BRussell]

Can't they all just take jobs as prostitutes?

[bubblewrap]

Wow, when I was in Germany in the late 80's / early 90's, employers were begging for workers. In fact I had never made so much money in my life.(I was 24)
I made about $29/hr(US). I had more DM than I knew what to spend it on. Even after taxes.

[voodoo]

Originally posted by NYCFarmboy:
I don't think Germans will stand for this much longer. Most Germans have a very high work ethic. However the point has been reached that there are not enough workers to pay for for the unemployed.

It is just extremely difficult to get a job in Germany because of the restrictions made on employers in terms of rules/hours of work/days of work etc that make it prohibitively expensive to hire people.

Schroeder is in a pickle.. he is a left wing socialist but to get the economy going he is going to have to reform work/union rules that would allow German companies to begin hiring again...but those reforms are VERY unpopular with his own party's constituents.

...and that's why it'd be a good idea to let Turkey into the EU?

(a question posed to anyone favoring that idea)

Sure doesn't look like the EU needs a bigger labor force now does it? This whole thing is rotten. It is time to consolidate the EU. High time.

When I travelled through Germany last summer they seemed to be doing fine though as a whole. It isn't breaking a part yet or anything.

[SimeyTheLimey]

Originally posted by TETENAL:
That's not the main problem. The main problem is that east Germany has no economy.

Dig deeper. Why doesn't the Eastern part of Germany have an economy? Neighboring Poland, the Czech Republic, and Hungary all do, and their economies were worse off under the Communists than the DDR's was.

[TETENAL]

Originally posted by SimeyTheLimey:
Dig deeper. Why doesn't the Eastern part of Germany have an economy? Neighboring Poland, the Czech Republic, and Hungary all do, and their economies were worse off under the Communists than the DDR's was.

The eastern part of Germany has no economy because the standard of living was raised to western leves in no time for political reasons (i. e. to win Kohl the election). That killed the eastern economy.
Neighboring eastern countries were worse off, but their standard of living is still lower than that of east Germany, and it is only slowly increasing in correspondance to economic growth.

[SimeyTheLimey]

Originally posted by TETENAL:
The eastern part of Germany has no economy because the standard of living was raised to western leves in no time for political reasons (i. e. to win Kohl the election). That killed the eastern economy.
Neighboring eastern countries were worse off, but their standard of living is still lower than that of east Germany, and it is only slowly increasing in correspondance to economic growth.

Our point exatly. You have a distorted economy. If you want to fix it, you have to un-distort it. That means market reforms and deregulation. Don't tell me this isn't understood in Germany. I have German friends. You have been talking about it for years.

[TETENAL]

Originally posted by SimeyTheLimey:
Our point exatly.

Whose point? I haven't seen it made yet.

You have a distorted economy. If you want to fix it, you have to un-distort it. That means market reforms and deregulation.

Germany has a distorted economy, but Germany doesn't need deregulation to fix it, Germany needs more regulation – in particular east Germany needs to be made a special economic zone to allow it to build up its own economy and more naturally grow to western productivity levels. Unfortunately that's politically not enforceable.
Not sure what market reform you mean.

I have German friends.

Me too. That's no the reason that one of us is right or not.

[SimeyTheLimey]

Originally posted by TETENAL:
Germany needs more regulation

[badidea]

The most important thing we need is: less whining!
Germans are the biggest whiners in the world!
If everybody thinks that our economy is getting worse and worse, nobody will be brave enough to employ new workers!
That's (in my opinion) the biggest problem we (still the third largest economy in the world and worldchampion for exports) have right now!

[Psychonaut]

Sie brauchen eigentlich Kapitalismus.

[OreoCookie]

Originally posted by BoomStick:
Can't they just live off the utopian welfare state and never have to work again?

Apparently, we were still rich enough to buy Chrysler

[roberto blanco]

Originally posted by badidea:
The most important thing we need is: less whining!
Germans are the biggest whiners in the world!
If everybody thinks that our economy is getting worse and worse, nobody will be brave enough to employ new workers!
That's (in my opinion) the biggest problem we (still the third largest economy in the world and worldchampion for exports) have right now!

that's exactly right. things aren't really that bad here. people just need to invest more and become more optimistic.

otoh, you don't see anybody here working two jobs and still being too poor to afford decent medical care, - unlike other places in this world we know of...

/don't even get me started on this...

[NYCFarmboy]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by roberto blanco:
that's exactly right. things aren't really that bad here. people just need to invest more and become more optimistic.

otoh, you don't see anybody here working two jobs and still being too poor to afford decent medical care, - unlike other places in this world we know of...

/don't even get me started on this... [/QUOTE

[idjeff]

Originally posted by NYCFarmboy:
[B]Five million Germans out of work

Germany's unemployment figure rose above the psychologically important level of five million last month.

I'm surprised nobody has blamed the US yet...

[Sherwin]

Meh. Talking about the German economy and unemployment, my favourite synth company went bump.

I vote to give Germany all of our money so they can restart and nationalise this gem of a company, providing them with employment and me with synths. Or maybe we could just invade and take control of the whole sorry situation. I don't really care as long as they start making those synths again.

[bubblewrap]

Who, Roland?

[Sherwin]

Originally posted by bubblewrap:
Who, Roland?

Narh. Waldorf.
Roland are my second favourite synth manufacturer.

[bubblewrap]

I had a Jupiter and a Juno in the 80's.