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bubblewrap · Mar 19, 2005, 09:35 AM

He's a registered sex offender, paid his debt and promised to be a good boy

Now someone else's child is dead.

But we'll just rehabilitate him and he'll pay his debt again.
Maybe it'll be your daughter this time.

Zimphire · Mar 19, 2005, 09:38 AM

bubblewrap · Mar 19, 2005, 10:35 AM

And there are people that will hold his life as meaningful as his victims or future victims.

Zimphire · Mar 19, 2005, 10:37 AM

Yeah, he should never have been let out.

ThinkInsane · Mar 19, 2005, 11:18 AM

They need to take the suicide watch off this guy and let him (for once) do the right thing.

bubblewrap · Mar 19, 2005, 11:24 AM

But, bbbbut, HIS life has value!

ThinkInsane · Mar 19, 2005, 11:34 AM

Originally posted by bubblewrap:
But, bbbbut, HIS life has value!

Not to me

TETENAL · Mar 19, 2005, 11:38 AM

Whether rehabilitation always works and where it works and where it doesn't needs to be discussed without labels like "monsters".

bubblewrap · Mar 19, 2005, 12:08 PM

Murderous pedophiles are not monsters?
Oh, I'm sorry, they're "productive citizens".
They serve a "purpose".

Millennium · Mar 19, 2005, 12:15 PM

Originally posted by TETENAL:
Whether rehabilitation always works and where it works and where it doesn't needs to be discussed without labels like "monsters".

Is this to deny that monsters exist?

roberto blanco · Mar 19, 2005, 12:53 PM

Originally posted by Millennium:
Is this to deny that monsters exist?

no, - it simply "mystifies" an otherwise completely explainable act/person.

some people can be rehabilitated, others can't. that fact doesn't make repeat offenders any less "human".

bubblewrap · Mar 19, 2005, 01:15 PM

Explainable act?
Sounds like a justification to me.

How does their haneous actions make them equal to me or othe law abiding citizens who would ever harm a child?

TETENAL · Mar 19, 2005, 01:27 PM

Originally posted by bubblewrap:
How does their haneous actions make them equal to me or othe law abiding citizens who would ever harm a child?

Obviously child molesters are not equal to people who don't commit such crimes. Nevertheless they're still human.

Explainable act?
Sounds like a justification to me.

America has an extremely high incarceration rate. Eventually you have to look more into how more people can be rehabilitated. That's unavoidable. Explanations are important for prediction and prevention. They're not done to justify crimes. Mystification on the other hand serves no rational purpose.

bubblewrap · Mar 19, 2005, 01:32 PM

Petty drug crime are the reason for high conviction rates.
Child molesters aren't even in the same ball park.
The only wat to have "prevented" this was to remove this "human" from society. Psychologists have been trying to "treat" these dregs of society for years. When in reality, all they're doing is creating more opportunities for your children to become victims.

Anders · Mar 19, 2005, 02:15 PM

A sad story indeed.

But if you all just yell "monster" and don�t start to wonder why such things happens more often in US than in other western countries you are part of the problem...

roberto blanco · Mar 19, 2005, 02:23 PM

Originally posted by bubblewrap:
Explainable act? Sounds like a justification to me.

you and all the other conservatives who have this kind of philosophical opinion, please open a dictionary and look up the difference between "justification" and "explanation".

Originally posted by bubblewrap:
How does their haneous actions make them equal to me or othe law abiding citizens who would ever harm a child?

it is not their "haneous actions" that make them equal, but their genetic make up (or do these peolple have other dna than "law abiding" citizens?)

i am not arguing that these people are innocent of commiting a crime and shouldn't be punished for it, - i'm arguing that calling them "monsters" only distracts from the real problem and the issue at hand.

bubblewrap · Mar 19, 2005, 02:55 PM

When you have a cancerous growth, do you try to explain it's being there or lop it off to save your life?

Monster is a great description.

a cruel wicked and inhuman person

And the problem at hand is that the bleeding hearts that decided this "monster" deserved to be let loose among the lambs failed miserably at protecting children.
Yes, registering this dredge work just great.

Oh, amd here is why it's not a problem in Iran.
Remove them from the genepool

I understand their(pedophiles) problem.
It's children aren't fair game and murder is illegal. That's their "problem"

You want the "rehabilitated" or "cured pedophile" living next to your family, that's fine with me. Blame yourself when something happens, not the "sick" individual.

And I didn't start on partisan politics. You and the other leftists.

Anders · Mar 19, 2005, 03:02 PM

Originally posted by bubblewrap:
When you have a cancerous growth, do you try to explain it's being there or lop it off to save your life?

If you need to cut of your arm to save your life your body will most likely be infected in other places. So cutting your arm of will not help you if not you analyze your sickness.

roberto blanco · 03:15 PM

Originally posted by bubblewrap:
When you have a cancerous growth, do you try to explain it's being there or lop it off to save your life?

you (try to) understand how it works, treat it accordingly and then stop it from re-occuring, by taking appropraite steps to prevent it from "breaking out" again.

Originally posted by bubblewrap:
Monster is a great description.

no, it's a mythological concept.

oh, and how much do you want to bet that this type of thing is going to happen again in iran?!

yeah, you just keep on treating the symptoms and see if it'll get you anywhere.

bubblewrap · Mar 19, 2005, 03:14 PM

You mean treating symptoms and burying victims.
Treating symptoms is all modern psychology can do.
Ranks right up there with the idiot that claimed he coul "cure" homosexuality.(I have no problem with homosexuals)

Maybe the rest of the world views pedophelia defferently, embraces it perhaps.
Roman Polanski is an excellant example of this.

And Iran has one less pedophile. One problem solved.

roberto blanco · Mar 19, 2005, 03:25 PM

Originally posted by bubblewrap:
Treating symptoms is all modern psychology can do.

certainly not. understanding psychopathological patterns has and will yield results in terms of combating crime and treating psychological illnesses.

just because some criminals can't be cured (yet) and people still commit crimes because they are sick does not mean psychology fails at explaining/treating and preventing pathological behavior.

Originally posted by bubblewrap:
Ranks right up there with the idiot that claimed he coul "cure" homosexuality.

homosexuality does not need to be "cured" since it's not considered a pathology.

Originally posted by bubblewrap:
And Iran has one less pedophile. One problem solved.

...one symptom removed. the cause is still there.

Anders · Mar 19, 2005, 03:32 PM

bubblewrap:

Why do US have more of those cases per capita than the rest of the western world? because you have more lenient punishments?

bubblewrap · Mar 19, 2005, 04:41 PM

Are our punishments more leaniant?
Perhaps it's the population.
Remember we have nearly 300,000,000 concentrated in cities.

Does the US really have a high number of sexual predators compaired to the resto of the world. Or does the rest of the world brush their statistics under the rug?

Pedophilia is not a pathology then. It's a genetic desorder?
Or trait? Like green eyes? A gene that can be identified in a fetus preventative action can be taken(abortion)?

lil'babykitten · Mar 19, 2005, 05:55 PM

Originally posted by roberto blanco:
...one symptom removed. the cause is still there.

Is the cause known? (Honest question)

placebo1969 · Mar 19, 2005, 08:12 PM

Why is there such an argument over semantics?

The guy is "sick"
The guy is "pathological" or a "monster" or "human."

Does any of that matter? Sex offenders have the highest recidivism rates. I have worked with juvenile offender for 10 years and adults for 5. Put whatever label on them you want. I believe that there is truly something different with a sex offender, especially ones with young victims. People can look for a "cause" or a "cure" but what about the here and now? A lot of places (at least in the US) require sex offenders to register after their crimes. Some are civilly committed after their sentences because of the danger they pose. They are different.

Until something better is found to deal with them, the best place, I believe, is away from society. Okay, there are some finer points that need to be dealt with, but I don't feel like it right now.

roberto blanco · Mar 20, 2005, 12:23 AM

Originally posted by lil'babykitten:
Is the cause known? (Honest question)

actually, no. but there are many indicators of what (may lead) people to become pedophiles or otherwise pathologically delinquent.

from what i understand, it's usually a combination of a genetic predisposition and/or something going very "wrong" in (the early stages) of the socialization process (parents, relatives etc.).

usually, this kind of behaviour is just an expression of deep seeded feelings of inadequacy, where the perpetrator of the crime is looking for some kind of cathartic event to get "back" at the people who hurt them sometime in the past.

roberto blanco · Mar 20, 2005, 12:27 AM

Originally posted by placebo1969:
Does any of that matter? Sex offenders have the highest recidivism rates.

why do you think that is? (honestly) could that have something to do with the (prison) environment, which only makes their condition worse and reinforces their feelings of "inferiority"?

(this is just a guess. i don't think there has been any research done on this)

roberto blanco · Mar 20, 2005, 12:44 AM

Originally posted by bubblewrap:
Are our punishments more leaniant?

hardly. even if the punishment for sex offenders would be the death penalty, you'd have the same amount of cases. (just a guess)

Originally posted by bubblewrap:
Does the US really have a high number of sexual predators compaired to the resto of the world.

yes, - and not only that, they have the most serial killers as well...

Originally posted by bubblewrap:
Pedophilia is not a pathology then. It's a genetic desorder?

many times it's part of it...and one doesn't necessarily exclude the other.

Originally posted by bubblewrap:
A gene that can be identified in a fetus preventative action can be taken(abortion)?

no, because it's not a "black and white" prepostion. where are talking about a genetic "predisposition" here, not genetic "determination". maybe one day, we'll be able to manipulate the genetic code in order to reduce the numbers of crimes associated with genetics.

bubblewrap · Mar 20, 2005, 09:31 AM

But turning them loose after "treatment" dosen't garuntee the public's safety.
Anyone who deems them "safe" for society should be held 100% liable for their patient's actions.

How does the rest of the world fix these patients?

SimpleLife · Mar 20, 2005, 09:47 AM

Originally posted by bubblewrap:
But turning them loose after "treatment" dosen't garuntee the public's safety.
Anyone who deems them "safe" for society should be held 100% liable for their patient's actions.

How does the rest of the world fix these patients?

There is not much that can be done unless there is early intervention. After too many years of being submitted to this pathology, therapy is bound to be useless unless there is a heavy medication applied.

These are cases that may belong to a life in prison until we find a real cure.

Children have to be fully protected, whatever the solution we may come with one day.

Cody Dawg · Mar 20, 2005, 04:42 PM

Good thread.

He NEVER should have been let out.

ANY PERSON CONVICTED AS A FELONY SEX OFFENDER SHOULD BE REQUIRED TO WEAR AN ELECTRONIC MONITORING DEVICE FOR THE REST OF THEIR LIVES.

Buckaroo · Mar 20, 2005, 06:39 PM

This is one person that deserves to be dragged behind a car for 5 miles.

Going 120 mph.

Heck make it a 120 mile trip at that speed.

Dimethyltrypt · Mar 20, 2005, 08:56 PM

Rehab is a ****ing myth. This guy was born demon, he will stay this way.

He showed he could not be trusted, now he's beyond repair.

Do him a favor and execute him.

RAILhead · Mar 20, 2005, 09:44 PM

I think child molesters should have CM (child molester) tattooed on their forehead.

In case anyone is wondering, I'm being 110% serious. Really.

Maury

RAILhead · Mar 20, 2005, 09:46 PM

Originally posted by TETENAL:
America has an extremely high incarceration rate.

If we'd kill the people on death row when they're sentenced, we wouldn't have as many people incarcerated.

Maury

roberto blanco · Mar 21, 2005, 01:04 AM

Originally posted by RAILhead:
If we'd kill the people on death row when they're sentenced, we wouldn't have as many people incarcerated....

but still the highest rate of pedophiles and serial killers. go figure.

Athens · Mar 21, 2005, 01:53 AM

Originally posted by bubblewrap:
He's a registered sex offender, paid his debt and promised to be a good boy

Now someone else's child is dead.

But we'll just rehabilitate him and he'll pay his debt again.
Maybe it'll be your daughter this time.

Lock him up for life and throw away the key

Athens · Mar 21, 2005, 02:06 AM

Originally posted by roberto blanco:
no, - it simply "mystifies" an otherwise completely explainable act/person.

some people can be rehabilitated, others can't. that fact doesn't make repeat offenders any less "human".

Sorry repeat offenders are a danger to community and should be prevented from being part of any community, they are the ones Jails are ment for.

Athens · Mar 21, 2005, 02:18 AM

Originally posted by RAILhead:
If we'd kill the people on death row when they're sentenced, we wouldn't have as many people incarcerated.

Maury

No matter what the crime ever I am 100% totally opposed to the death penalty!

Originally posted by roberto blanco:
but still the highest rate of pedophiles and serial killers. go figure.

I dont know about that, for serial killers and pedophiles there rate seems about the same as Canada's based on a per capita. What the US leads in is the most Violent crimes. More car jackings, house breakins, car breakins, people beating each other up with the use of weapons and extreme violence.

BoomStick · Mar 21, 2005, 08:04 AM

Originally posted by Anders:
bubblewrap:

Why do US have more of those cases per capita than the rest of the western world? because you have more lenient punishments?

No, it's because the "enlightened" rest of the world allows pedophile monsters free reign so it isn't considered a crime.

If no crime is reported, then no crime must have taken place.

roberto blanco · Mar 21, 2005, 08:18 AM

Originally posted by Athens:
Sorry repeat offenders are a danger to community and should be prevented from being part of any community, they are the ones Jails are ment for.

...and what does that have to do with my post?

roberto blanco · Mar 21, 2005, 08:20 AM

Originally posted by BoomStick:
No, it's because the "enlightened" rest of the world allows pedophile monsters free reign so it isn't considered a crime...
If no crime is reported, then no crime must have taken place...

bullsh1t. that was a completely pathetic reply. pedophilia is considered a crime in almost all countries, - it's just a (sad) fact that the us of a has most of them. and that's not a coincidence if you ask me.

RAILhead · Mar 21, 2005, 08:29 AM

Originally posted by roberto blanco:
but still the highest rate of pedophiles and serial killers. go figure.

...only because they know nothing will be done to them. There's no consequence in America. None. Sitting in a jail with AC, heat, a TV, plumbing, recreation, three meals PREPARED and PAID FOR -- that's not jail. For many, it's an improvement.

Thus, no real consequence means no real need to not commit a crime.

Take Scott Peterson, for example. Does anyone on this board actually think he'll be put to death? IF he does, it won't be for another 15 years -- and by that time, most people won't even know who he is. FIFTEEN years. If I had a baby today, my kid would about to get his/her driver's license and this monster would still be sucking air.

Realize the Scarlet Letter. Bring back the gallows.

Maury

Athens · Mar 21, 2005, 08:31 AM

Originally posted by roberto blanco:
bullsh1t. that was a completely pathetic reply. pedophilia is considered a crime in almost all countries, - it's just a (sad) fact that the us of a has most of them. and that's not a coincidence if you ask me.

I need some stats on that because ive never reserched that personally. I cant see the US being any higher for pedophilia then any other place. what makes the news anyways sure make it seem like a similar amount all across the board. The big problem in the US which stands out is the violence of crimes, crimes in other places that wouldnt be so violent.

BoomStick · Mar 21, 2005, 08:31 AM

As I recall a massive pedophile ring was just broke up in Europe.

********?

Heh.

The child-sexslave industry is BIG business in "progressive" europe.
The liberal, monster coddling laws are what let this tragedy happen in Florida. It is no coincidence that it happened.
If he would have been treated properly and executed, I gurantee it would have NEVER happened.

Athens · Mar 21, 2005, 08:33 AM

Originally posted by BoomStick:
As I recall a massive pedophile ring was just broke up in Europe.

********?

Heh.

The child-sexslave industry is BIG business in "progressive" europe.
The liberal, monster coddling laws are what let this tragedy happen in Florida. It is no coincidence that it happened.
If he would have been treated properly and executed, I gurantee it would have NEVER happened.

RCMP and FBI recently where working on that same ring here in North America, from what I understood, world wide in 13 countries over 1000 people have been arrested. Its global and hard to say the US is the worst. W5 did a show in italy and it was worst then I ever saw here or heard coming out of the US.

BoomStick · Mar 21, 2005, 08:59 AM

What I'm amazed about is the number of people who use the I hate the US so I blame them instead of the criminal monster and actually excuse his actions.

sick sick sick.

This monster would have never done this if they would have used proper "electro shock therapy" or massive "drug treatment".

The only good pedophile is a dead one.

Cody Dawg · Mar 21, 2005, 09:12 AM

I hate pedophiles - for a private personal experience reason.

Trust me, they deserve to spend the rest of their lives being "outed" in the communities in which they live and they should be required to wear an electronic parole bracelet that shows exactly where they are ALL of the time.

Heck, they should implant one in them.

Macrobat · Mar 21, 2005, 09:46 AM

http://209.157.64.200/focus/f-news/1356017/posts
http://www.cnn.com/WORLD/9608/26/german.pedophile/
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?p...p;refer=europe

Too bad for you, Blanco, that the statistics say Europe and Latin America are the two largest perveyors of pedophilia, not the US.

Your agenda is showing (again).

badidea · Mar 21, 2005, 09:50 AM

WOW, a thread full of killers...