[Athens]

http://www.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/americ....ap/index.html


Dont you think its time we decrimilize it, and provide it as a treatment for those that are addicted so these drug lords are put out of business.

[macintologist]

I totally agree, and I'm glad that the rightwing Libertarians are in agreement with the hippie leftist liberals on this.

How do you convince people that this isn't a job of the gov't?

What I mean is, anytime you bring up decriminalizing drugs, people say "but drugs are so bad for you! Why would you want to legalize them?? "

The things you have to do nowadays to reverse 50 years of ******** and lies

[macintologist]

I think what we should do is legalize drugs, and tax the **** out of them (but they will still be way below current market prices, due to competition).

All the taxes go to not-for profit rehab centers.

[Mastrap]

I totally agree. All drugs should be 100% legal and available at state controlled outlets, under strict medical supervision. On purchase you can educate the user on why prolonged drug use is not a good idea™.
Because, even with taxes on top, the government can easily undercut the dealers they will instantly lose a huge amount of custom. Crime will be reduced over night. Add to this that many, many drug users do not die from the drug itself but from the lifestyle associated with it and we should be in a position to save lives. It's a win win situation.
Personally I don't take drugs, but I have little issue with people who do so responsibly.

[Kilbey]

Don't you get tired of starting these threads?

"Harsh Laws make more violent crime"

[Buckaroo]

I believe we should double and triple the punishments for illegal drug use. Drug pushers should be executed for pushing death.

[James L]

Originally posted by Buckaroo:
I believe we should double and triple the punishments for illegal drug use. Drug pushers should be executed for pushing death.

While I do not feel that cocaine, heroin, etc have a place in legal drug use because of the degree of damage they cause...

Many of the drugs that are currently illegal are no more harmful than smoking tobacco, or drinking alcohol. Indeed, smoking and excessive drinking place huge burdens on society both from a social and a health care point of view.

So, if we also outlaw those two items, and apply the same punishment to them as you want to other drugs, then I might agree with you.

Or, we could realize that drug laws in North America are hypocritical, and just because they have been a certain way for years doesn't mean that is the way they should still be.

I am not a smoker, drinker, or drug user... I am an emergency health care worker, and a musician. I am around drugs a lot unfortunately. The question is, what are we basing our laws on? Morals? Health care risks? Archaic believes that are still being perpetuated?

If we are basing our laws on health care risks, then it is a joke that pot is illegal, while alcohol, which drags down the health care system, rips apart families, causes car accidents, etc is legal. Not too mention the known damage that smoking, and second hand smoke, cause.

If we are saying that alcohol and tobacco are legal and it is a moral choice, than the same rule should apply to pot.

If we are blindly supporting these laws because that is the way it is always been, then we need to get a life and base our laws on facts.

[bubblewrap]

I used to be against legalizing marajuana.
Now I say legalize it, tax it and export it.

But. How do you regulate use?
Would you want me at the controls of your commuter plane stoned?

[Athens]

Originally posted by James L:
While I do not feel that cocaine, heroin, etc have a place in legal drug use because of the degree of damage they cause...

Many of the drugs that are currently illegal are no more harmful than smoking tobacco, or drinking alcohol. Indeed, smoking and excessive drinking place huge burdens on society both from a social and a health care point of view.

So, if we also outlaw those two items, and apply the same punishment to them as you want to other drugs, then I might agree with you.

Or, we could realize that drug laws in North America are hypocritical, and just because they have been a certain way for years doesn't mean that is the way they should still be.

I am not a smoker, drinker, or drug user... I am an emergency health care worker, and a musician. I am around drugs a lot unfortunately. The question is, what are we basing our laws on? Morals? Health care risks? Archaic believes that are still being perpetuated?

If we are basing our laws on health care risks, then it is a joke that pot is illegal, while alcohol, which drags down the health care system, rips apart families, causes car accidents, etc is legal. Not too mention the known damage that smoking, and second hand smoke, cause.

If we are saying that alcohol and tobacco are legal and it is a moral choice, than the same rule should apply to pot.

If we are blindly supporting these laws because that is the way it is always been, then we need to get a life and base our laws on facts.

Based on your posts you seem like a smart fellow, so im posing this questoin directly to you because I know I'll get a good answer for or against. Currently it is illegal to do drugs, yet people do them anyways. Creating laws that punish them even more, do you A believe it will only cause more harm to put some on in jail for longer times say 20 years for causing self harm, or B decriminilze it and tax it. The same persons will still be drug addicts but it will remove a secondary problem with drugs, the crime users commit to support a 500 a day habit.

Next question is a person who is drug free now, its by choice. Taxing all drugs do you think drug free people will start being users on a large scale or that they will still make the choice to be drug free. Of corse some might try harder drugs but I personally beleive it would be a small amount.

Last question and prob a harder one, as a drug free person I am going to assume you wouldnt take drugs just because it was legal, as you said you dont smoke and that is legal so you have already made these choices in your life. Do you personally think the streets would be safer for you if addicts didn't have to pay 500 a shoot to get there drugs for example car theifts, breakins, robberies and do you think the money resources spent in policing and security at ports trying to keep drugs out would actually go to better things at the same time gov collecting taxes from the legal use to help with addiction and drug lords being put out of business? Do you think that is a outcome and would it better your life and community?

Where I live it sure would.

[Athens]

Originally posted by bubblewrap:
I used to be against legalizing marajuana.
Now I say legalize it, tax it and export it.

But. How do you regulate use?
Would you want me at the controls of your commuter plane stoned?

If we assume all drugs lets start with pot
No public smoking

Harder Drugs purchase and consumption only at safe drug sites with a manditory 1/2 hour cooling off period depending on the substance.

[sideus]

Hell, lets decriminalize speeding. Why not? You can die doing 25mph just as easy doing 95mph.

[macintologist]

Originally posted by bubblewrap:
I used to be against legalizing marajuana.
Now I say legalize it, tax it and export it.

But. How do you regulate use?
Would you want me at the controls of your commuter plane stoned?

Using the same type of regulations dealing with alcohol.

Pilots aren't allowed to be drunk at the wheel. Same principle.

[Athens]

Originally posted by sideus:
Hell, lets decriminalize speeding. Why not? You can die doing 25mph just as easy doing 95mph.

except speed can cause direct injury and death to innocent drivers sharing the road.

[bubblewrap]

Originally posted by macintologist:
Using the same type of regulations dealing with alcohol.

Pilots aren't allowed to be drunk at the wheel. Same principle.

But you can smell a drunk pilot.
And I won't scare you with how many captains I've had that drank.

I fear some will see it as "just smoking a cigarette".
We saw what happened when a barge pilot was high.

[budster101]

Quite a few 'drunk' drivers are shown to have partaken some of the chronic after testing.

I think the number was about 1/3, but someone check that.

You want to make it legal?

[roberto blanco]

Originally posted by Mastrap:
I totally agree. All drugs should be 100% legal and available at state controlled outlets, under strict medical supervision. On purchase you can educate the user on why prolonged drug use is not a good idea™.
Because, even with taxes on top, the government can easily undercut the dealers they will instantly lose a huge amount of custom. Crime will be reduced over night. Add to this that many, many drug users do not die from the drug itself but from the lifestyle associated with it and we should be in a position to save lives. It's a win win situation.
Personally I don't take drugs, but I have little issue with people who do so responsibly.

[Chuckit]

Originally posted by budster101:
Quite a few 'drunk' drivers are shown to have partaken some of the chronic after testing.

I think the number was about 1/3, but someone check that.

You want to make it legal?

What is your argument here? "Many drunk drivers also smoke pot. Therefore, pot should be illegal." That's completely non sequitur. Drink drivers do a lot of things that should not be illegalized, and nobody was suggesting that we legalize driving under the influence.

Originally posted by sideus:
Hell, lets decriminalize speeding. Why not? You can die doing 25mph just as easy doing 95mph.

I do think we should decriminalize speeding on freeways. Make it like the German autobahn. Most people ignore speed limits on freeways anyway, and those who do pay attention are cautious enough that they wouldn't be be going that fast even without a speed limit. 55 MPH is way slower than necessary for most places.

[SVass]

Originally posted by Chuckit:
I do think we should decriminalize speeding on freeways. Make it like the German autobahn. Most people ignore speed limits on freeways anyway, and those who do pay attention are cautious enough that they wouldn't be be going that fast even without a speed limit. 55 MPH is way slower than necessary for most places.

The problem is that ignorant people buy Ford Explorers, mount retreads, and drive at high speeds causing accidents. If tires, brakes, etc were speed rated by bright colors, then speed limits could be raised. In the winter at the first snowfall, I stay home because all of the idiots slip and slide all over the road and down our hills. I don't want them on our high speed roads thinking that their high centered truck can go as fast as a well maintained grand touring car.

In other words, our laws sometimes limit everyone to protect us against the idiots. sam (Note that legalizing drugs would mean that our fearless leader, Bush, would no longer have to deny their past use.)

[bubblewrap]

And Klinton.

[Zimphire]

You do know that people steal, and other violent crime to buy alchohol that is also legal right?

[Athens]

Originally posted by Zimphire:
You do know that people steal, and other violent crime to buy alchohol that is also legal right?

not to the same degree, a study done in 2002 found 90% of property crimes in Vancouver directly related to drugs, 90%!!!!

[Zimphire]

Yeah true, not to the same degree.

You can always bum say , $5 for a 6 pack or whatever

[bubblewrap]

I'll bet the money is for meth and not pot.

[Athens]

Originally posted by bubblewrap:
I'll bet the money is for meth and not pot.

meth, crack, heroin. Pot is dirt cheap and plentiful here no one steals to support that.

[Zimphire]

Originally posted by Athens:
Pot is dirt cheap and plentiful here no one steals to support that.

I know someone that was getting GOOD funk for $100 a OZ which is dirt cheap (For primo stuff)

He still stole to support his habit.

[bubblewrap]

Still, decriminalizing pot won't stop meth users.

[Spliffdaddy]

yup. pot sure did ruin my life.

excuse me while I get back to enjoying my retirement.

ya'll just keep working...or whatever it is that the 'smart' people do all day.

[Athens]

Originally posted by Zimphire:
I know someone that was getting GOOD funk for $100 a OZ which is dirt cheap (For primo stuff)

He still stole to support his habit.

you just have to walk into the forests 20 minutes to find some pot growing. you can get joints for 2.00 downtown.

[Athens]

Originally posted by bubblewrap:
Still, decriminalizing pot won't stop meth users.

WHy decriminalize one and not the other. My post dosent say Decrimilize pot, it says drugs as in all substances and regulate and tax them all and drive the kingpins out of business while taking in income for treatment centers.

[spacefreak]

Originally posted by Athens:
WHy decriminalize one and not the other. My post dosent say Decrimilize pot, it says drugs as in all substances and regulate and tax them all and drive the kingpins out of business while taking in income for treatment centers.

Society is in the midst of criminalizing tobacco usem abd at the same time, you want heroin, cocaine, lsd, weed, meth, peyote, and everything else decriminalized?

Man, you can argue all you want in favor of decriminilization, but it ain't happening. If I can't sit in a park with a beer and a smoke, there's no way society's going to allow folks to be able to run into a 7-11 for a dimebag and a few grams of coke.

[James L]

Originally posted by Spliffdaddy:
yup. pot sure did ruin my life.

excuse me while I get back to enjoying my retirement.

ya'll just keep working...or whatever it is that the 'smart' people do all day.

You mean working to make the world around them a better place? I am sure they don't need any nudging for that.

You go on right back to enjoying that retirement... others around you will continue contributing for you.

[typoon]

An interesting Article I found about Pot causing Psychosis in younger folks.

[nath]

Originally posted by typoon:
Pot causing Psychosis in younger folks.

That's not what the article concludes at all. The conclusion, as stated at the end, is that

"there can no longer be any doubt that there is a small but significant minority of people who have a predisposition to psychosis and who would be well advised to steer clear of cannabis"

(my emphasis)

Seems to me that someone with a predisposition to psychosis would probably be best advised to stay away from any mood-altering substances, including alcohol.

[Chuckit]

Originally posted by typoon:
An interesting Article I found about Pot causing Psychosis in younger folks.

Actually, it seems to be an article about one scientist with a personal vendetta conducting an inconclusive study. Even the article just says that he's identified a link, not proven cause and effect (and certainly not to scientific standards).

[macintologist]

Who is the gov't to tell us what we can and cannot smoke?

Who is the IRS to prevent us from reaping the fruits of our labor?

Who is the gov't to control our lives? I ****ing hate the federal nanny gov't.

[Chuckit]

Originally posted by macintologist:
Who is the gov't to tell us what we can and cannot smoke?

Who is the IRS to prevent us from reaping the fruits of our labor?

Who is the gov't to control our lives? I ****ing hate the federal nanny gov't.

You'd prefer anarchy? Because:

In response to 1: The government's entire job is to govern. It should forbid things that it judges to be dangerous. If there are substances that cause people to be a danger to others (and there are — meth is one of these), it is the government's job to stop this just like it's the government's job to stop me from firing an automatic weapon in a schoolyard.

In response to 2: The IRS is a necessary evil. It would be nice not to have taxes, but then we would have no government (or at least no meaningful government).

[budster101]

Originally posted by macintologist:
Who is the gov't to tell us what we can and cannot smoke?

Who is the IRS to prevent us from reaping the fruits of our labor?

Who is the gov't to control our lives? I ****ing hate the federal nanny gov't.

You had me at IRS...

[IonCable]

While I understand the idea behind legalizing drugs, I pose this question would you want a drug addict making our food, driving your taxi, being your pilot, doctor, teacher, ect. If drugs are legal you can't discriminate against the user. Employers would have to cover the health insurance issues of users, just like smokers. If you legalize narcotics then don't you have legalize ALL drugs people would be shelf medicating everything from antibiotics to blood pressure drugs. I know, even with criminalization people are working at jobs ect, but it is far less than if it was legal. I know the arguement Proabition did solve anything and it's repeal reduce crime, ect. But Alcohol is a vastly different drug than Meth, heroin, and other. Most Alcoholics can be very functional, not so with others. You may get rid of the drug lords and reduce some crime, but you would just transfer the problem somewhere else.

My brother works is cop and seen plenty of meth-heads, ect. He calls them the "walking dead." The drugs totally consume everything, money, body, mind, soul. The only thing that matter is the drug, the high. It does matter how strong you think you are, the drugs will win in the end.

On the surface it's a great idea, but look deeper and it anything but. The only way to solve the drug problem solve why people do drugs in the frist place, which isn't because they are illegal.

[deedar]

Originally posted by sideus:
Hell, lets decriminalize speeding. Why not? You can die doing 25mph just as easy doing 95mph.

No you can't.

[Athens]

Originally posted by IonCable:


My brother works is cop and seen plenty of meth-heads, ect. He calls them the "walking dead." The drugs totally consume everything, money, body, mind, soul. The only thing that matter is the drug, the high. It does matter how strong you think you are, the drugs will win in the end.

You said it best right there, that is ALL that matters to them. Which is why they steal cars, break into houses and mug you for the money they need for there fix. Provide addicts the drugs as a medication for the ones that are addicted in a proper enviroment (2 hour lock room or something) and you solve 3 major problems, one this crack addict stealing to support his habit, and people getting mugged. Second the policing cost of investigating all these breakins and the policing costs of keeping people safe from meth users or the jail cost of putting them in jail. Third you are keeping them off the streets when they are dangerous during the duration of there high.

[MacNStein]

Originally posted by macintologist:
Who is the gov't to tell us what we can and cannot smoke?

Who is the IRS to prevent us from reaping the fruits of our labor?

Who is the gov't to control our lives? I ****ing hate the federal nanny gov't.

YEAH! Who's the gov't to tell us what we have to sell!


Oops... wrong thread.

[Chuckit]

Originally posted by IonCable:
While I understand the idea behind legalizing drugs, I pose this question would you want a drug addict making our food, driving your taxi, being your pilot, doctor, teacher, ect. If drugs are legal you can't discriminate against the user.

I don't care what these folks do in their free time as long as they're at 100 percent when they do these things, just like my policy is now with drinkers. (And yes, we can discriminate against drunk people.)

[budster101]

Drunk people suck. I cannot stand people who get drunk, as they all act like complete idiots.

I acted like a complete idiot 3 times in my life. I learned my lesson on the 3rd time...

What is the reason to get inebriated? I understand a slight buzz is ok, but to get full-on drunk and then get behind the wheel of a car/truck/motorcycle, is just insane.

I've had the unfortunate luck to come across several accidents when alcohol was involved. Really nasty.

[nath]

Originally posted by budster101:
Drunk people suck. I cannot stand people who get drunk, as they all act like complete idiots.

I acted like a complete idiot 3 times in my life. I learned my lesson on the 3rd time...

What is the reason to get inebriated?

When I was at college we had a group of students come over from the states to spend a year studying at our Uni. Since they were from North Carolina, none of them were really experienced drinkers, whereas many of my British peers had been drinking regularly since their mid-teens, some with, and some without parental supervision. Tellingly, it was most usually the Americans who acted like idiots in the bar, for at least their first few months. Because they weren't accustomed to drinking, and didn't really know how to handle the effects.

Originally posted by budster101:
I understand a slight buzz is ok, but to get full-on drunk and then get behind the wheel of a car/truck/motorcycle, is just insane.

I've had the unfortunate luck to come across several accidents when alcohol was involved. Really nasty.

I think you're confusing being an asshole with being drunk. Of course the two can coincide. But there's nothing unique about being drunk that leads a sensible person to attempt to drive a vehicle, or excuses such behaviour. And it certainly isn't OK to drive with 'a slight buzz'!

[badidea]

Originally posted by Zimphire:
You do know that people steal, and other violent crime to buy alchohol that is also legal right?

...and you do know that people steal and commit other violent crime to get something to eat (and luckily this is also legal)?

[roberto blanco]

Originally posted by nath:
I think you're confusing being an asshole with being drunk. Of course the two can coincide. But there's nothing unique about being drunk that leads a sensible person to attempt to drive a vehicle, or excuses such behaviour. And it certainly isn't OK to drive with 'a slight buzz'!

"in vino veritas!"

if you're an a55hole when you're drunk, it is very likely that you're a (repressed) jerk when you're sober.

[nath]

Originally posted by roberto blanco:
"in vino veritas!"

if you're an a55hole when you're drunk, it is very likely that you're a (repressed) jerk when you're sober.

All alcohol does is lower inhibition. It doesn't manufacture personality traits.

[Zimphire]

Originally posted by Athens:
you just have to walk into the forests 20 minutes to find some pot growing.

Not around these parts.

you can get joints for 2.00 downtown.

Wow joints!

Pot heads don't buy "joints"

Frat girls buy joints.

[Zimphire]

Originally posted by badidea:
...and you do know that people steal and commit other violent crime to get something to eat (and luckily this is also legal)?

Not even closely related.

You can get free food anytime you want.

[Zimphire]

Originally posted by nath:
All alcohol does is lower inhibition. It doesn't manufacture personality traits.

Yes, and when that inhibition is lowered, anyone has a chance to be obnoxious.