[stevesnj]

WHERE IS PRESIDENT BUSH!!! Oh on Vacation...why hasn't he released military help? Where are the heavy wheicles from the army? MIlitary helicopters? The hurricane cut short his vacation short by 2 days so im sure he's pissed. Will he fly over the damage to Washington before or after he fly's...over... Louisiana anyway? He did say resourses are on the way and he will finally hold a meeting on what to do...today...ugghh great timing.

[typoon]

Originally Posted by stevesnj

WHERE IS PRESIDENT BUSH!!! Oh on Vacation...why hasn't he released military help? Where are the heavy wheicles from the army? MIlitary helicopters? The hurricane cut short his vacation short by 2 days so im sure he's pissed. Will he fly over the damage to Washington before or after he fly's...over... Louisiana anyway? He did say resourses are on the way and he will finally hold a meeting on what to do...today...ugghh great timing.

Uh, The National guard has been dispatched. They are part of the military the last time I checked. They've been out there for days. He's also releasing some of the strategic reserve. Like he wasn't doing anything while on Vacation. He was just kicking back relaxing in his hammock. Just get over your Bush hating. I'm just waiting for somone to blame the hurricane on Bush.

[RAILhead]

Can you find the moron in this thread?

[ebuddy]

Originally Posted by stevesnj

WHERE IS PRESIDENT BUSH!!! Oh on Vacation...why hasn't he released military help? Where are the heavy wheicles from the army? MIlitary helicopters? The hurricane cut short his vacation short by 2 days so im sure he's pissed. Will he fly over the damage to Washington before or after he fly's...over... Louisiana anyway? He did say resourses are on the way and he will finally hold a meeting on what to do...today...ugghh great timing.

Have you dedicated this much energy hating any other one man stevesnj? Ahhh, you people are excruciating. He did these things you're asking about, but was Sunday early enough for ya?

Bush prepares hurricane relief effort
WASHINGTON (AP) — President Bush, as he readied the federal government for a massive relief effort, on Sunday urged people in the path of Hurricane Katrina to forget anything but their safety and move to higher ground as instructed.

By Jim Watson, AFP
"We cannot stress enough the danger this hurricane poses to Gulf Coast communities," Bush said as the storm roared across the gulf toward New Orleans and other communities. "I urge all citizens to put their own safety and the safety of their families first by moving to safe ground." (Related video: Bush urges evacuation)

With forecasters warning of a category five storm, the president made sure the federal response would not be delayed by already declaring emergencies in Mississippi, Florida and Alabama just hours after a similar declaration for Louisiana. Such declarations make federal aid available to assist with disaster relief, but they are rarely made before a storm even hits.

Working from his Texas ranch, Bush participated via videoconference in a large meeting of federal, state and local disaster management officials preparing for the storm's onslaught. Separately, he spoke by phone with the governors of Louisiana, Mississippi, Alabama and Florida.

"We will do everything in our power to help the people and the communities affected by this storm," the president said.

Winds reaching 175 mph and a potentially devastating storm surge were feared when Hurricane Katrina reached land early Monday. The 485,000 residents of New Orleans were ordered to evacuate the city.

In Washington, the Federal Emergency Management Agency was coordinating relief efforts sending water, food and other supplies to staging centers in the Southeast. FEMA was moving supplies from logistics centers in Atlanta and Denton, Texas, to areas closer to where authorities believe the storm will create a need, spokeswoman Nicol Andrews said.

This President has many strengths and weaknesses, responding inappropriately to catastrophy is not one of his weaknesses. Educate thyself young padiwan and do not rely upon the text only offered on bumper-stickers. BTW; when you read that the President is on vacation it means he's not in Washington... period. When a President ends his vacation early, he is simply coming back to Washington... end of story. Move along.

[ebuddy]

Originally Posted by RAILhead

Can you find the moron in this thread?

$10.00 says that the moron will be the one who does NOT return to the thread he started. Oh he's reading and with any luck he's saying to himself; "why do I do this? How can I possibly defend this kneejerk?" *tunes back to Mtv on daddy's 65" plasma

[RAILhead]

You're probably right.

Or, maybe something along the lines of "Bush shouldn't have been on vacation anyway! He's President, and if he has to be on vacation that much, then he ought to resign!"

Or...

"He knows it's hurricane season, but he went on vacation anyway because he doesn't care about poor black America. He should have been pprepared!"

Or...

"He should have made these calls BEFORE the hurricane hit land. It's his fault anyway because he loves oil so much and he and his gestapo cronies are causing the global warming that led to the over active hurricane season that spawned Katina. HE KNEW IT WOULD HAPPEN BUT DIDN'T DO ANYTHING!!11!!"

[ebuddy]

Originally Posted by RAILhead

You're probably right.

Or, maybe something along the lines of "Bush shouldn't have been on vacation anyway! He's President, and if he has to be on vacation that much, then he ought to resign!"

Or...

"He knows it's hurricane season, but he went on vacation anyway because he doesn't care about poor black America. He should have been pprepared!"

Or...

"He should have made these calls BEFORE the hurricane hit land.

Well, all the above except this indictment. He in fact made many a call prior to this hitting shore, but you're right. Generally these types will not allow little things like facts to get in the way of their vitriolic blundering.

[ebuddy]

Did stevesnj go on vacation or something? Where'd he go???

[spacefreak]

Originally Posted by stevesnj

WHERE IS PRESIDENT BUSH!!! Oh on Vacation...why hasn't he released military help? Where are the heavy wheicles from the army? MIlitary helicopters? The hurricane cut short his vacation short by 2 days so im sure he's pissed. Will he fly over the damage to Washington before or after he fly's...over... Louisiana anyway? He did say resourses are on the way and he will finally hold a meeting on what to do...today...ugghh great timing.

I guarantee you that he's doing a whole lot more than you are to help out.

[Millennium]

By the way, stevensj, heavy vehicles aren't going to do very much good in flooded areas. Even helicopters will only be so useful; they have limited cargo-carrying capacity and nowhere to drop it off. Really, if any branch of the US Armed Forces is involved in the beginning stages of this, I would imagine that the Coast Guard would be most useful. They have experience with aquatic rescues, and enough small boats to be able to move around quickly.

[Macrobat]

Bush has also released the US Coast Guard, the Navy is involved out of Gulfport NAS and Pensicola NAS, FEMA is onsite, etc., etc., etc.

Please note the thread-start time - less than 24 hours after the hurricane hit ferchrissakes. BTW, look just West of Lousiana - you see that great big thing? It's called TEXAS - gee, it's actually opportune that the president just happens to be RIGHT NEXT DOOR!

Wonder where ole Stevie was during the Presidential Campaign, you know, when George and Jeb were touring the hurricane-ravaged areas of Florida, to assess where and how to deliver aid while Kerry was getting a manicure, facial and a haircut?

Get over it.

[RAILhead]

Originally Posted by Macrobat

Wonder where ole Stevie was during the Presidential Campaign, you know, when George and Jeb were touring the hurricane-ravaged areas of Florida, to assess where and how to deliver aid while Kerry was getting a manicure, facial and a haircut?

...and a tan -- don't forget about the fake tan...

[stevesnj]

LOL I love getting you guys goin''' LOL

[RAILhead]

Ahh, there he is -- and played the ol' "I was just screwin' wit youse guys" bit.

BRAVO, little one! BRAVO!

We never expected that response...

[ebuddy]

Originally Posted by RAILhead

Ahh, there he is -- and played the ol' "I was just screwin' wit youse guys" bit.

BRAVO, little one! BRAVO!

We never expected that response...

I call for flame-baiting bannination.

[art_director]

Where is Bush? Don't know where he is today, but on Tuesday this is what he was doing::

http://news.yahoo.com/photo/050830/480/capm10208301856

I've never been President but this seems like an odd way to aid disaster relief.

[Macrobat]

So, do you do one thing, and only one thing, all the time? I imagine that if he were concentrating only on Louisiana, you would then b!tch that he's not doing anything for your area of the country. Please keep your dogmatic kneejerks to yourself. TY.

[art_director]

Macrobat::

People have been asking what Bush is doing, I answered the query. If you don't like it write and tell him.

I have yet to complain about any action or inaction by President Bush in my part of the country. IMHO there are places in this nation that need more help and attention from the White House than Minnesota, the state in which I reside.

Please keep your dogmatic kneejerks to yourself. TY.

[art_director]

Mississippi National Guard Troops in Iraq = 3,800
Louisiana National Guard Troops in Iraq = 3,000

Those 6,800 troops would come in real handy right about now.

[ebuddy]

Originally Posted by art_director

Where is Bush? Don't know where he is today, but on Tuesday this is what he was doing::

http://news.yahoo.com/photo/050830/480/capm10208301856

I've never been President but this seems like an odd way to aid disaster relief.

He's already set the ball in motion for disaster relief. No doubt his personal security would have a small problem with him carrying sandbags to the breached levies.


WASHINGTON (8/31/2005) — Joint Task Force Katrina is setting up today at Camp Shelby, Miss., as the Defense Department's focal point to support the Federal Emergency Management Agency's relief efforts along the Gulf Coast, Air Force Maj. Eric Butterbaugh, a U.S. Northern Command spokesman, confirmed today.

Army Lt. Gen. Russel Honore, 1st U.S. Army commander, will head the task force to coordinate DoD active-duty support for disaster relief efforts in the hurricane's aftermath, much of it already under way or in the works.

Meanwhile, the number of National Guardsmen on duty in Louisiana, Mississippi, Alabama and Florida rose to almost 8,300 today.

National Guard units and members in 17 more states remained on standby today, ready to provide assistance as required in the wake of extensive damage, rising floodwaters, and power and communications outages throughout the region, Air Force Lt. Col. Ellen Krenke, a DoD spokeswoman, said.

The guardsmen remain under their respective governors' control, which enables them to provide law-enforcement support in the affected regions -- something the Posse Comitatus Act prohibits active-duty forces from doing within the United States. While under state control, the National Guard is not bound by Posse Comitatus, NORTHCOM officials explained.

While establishing Joint Task Force Katrina today, NORTHCOM was already providing or coordinating a full range of support involving active-duty forces and assets.

As of this morning, four MH-53 Sea Stallion and two HH-60 Seahawk helicopters from USS Bataan were flying medical-evacuation and search-and-rescue missions in Louisiana, and Bataan's hospital was preparing for possible use for medical support. Bataan, based out of Naval Station Ingleside, Texas, is in the waters off the Louisiana coast. High Speed Vessel Swift, also based at Ingleside, sailed to the waters off Louisiana to provide support, as well.

Three helicopters from the Army's 3rd Corps, in Fort Hood, Texas, are in Baton Rouge, La., and two more in Mississippi to help with searches and rescues and damage assessments, NORTHCOM officials reported.

In addition, five Air Force helicopters from the 920th Rescue Wing, from Patrick Air Force Base, Fla., and 347th Rescue Wing from Moody Air Force Base, Ga., are in Mississippi for search-and-rescue missions, officials said. These aircraft are capable of nighttime searches and rescues and also will transport FEMA assessment teams over the area to gather critical information for state and federal emergency managers.

Meanwhile, eight U.S. Transportation Command swift-water rescue teams, each with 14 members, were headed from California to Lafayette, La., today to rescue stranded civilians from flooded areas, NORTHCOM officials reported.

A wide range of other military members and assets were also bound for the Gulf Coast to provide more support, NORTHCOM officials reported.

The Iwo Jima Amphibious Readiness Group was preparing to sail from Norfolk, Va., loaded with disaster response equipment and was expected to reach the Louisiana coast in five days, officials said. The group consists of USS Iwo Jima, USS Shreveport, USS Tortuga and USNS Arctic.

The hospital ship USNS Comfort was preparing to leave Baltimore to bring medical assistance to the Gulf region and was expected to reach the area in seven days, officials said.

Plans were being made bring USS Grapple, a Navy rescue and salvage vessel, to the region to support maritime and underwater survey and salvage operations.

NORTHCOM also established federal operational staging areas at Maxwell Air Force Base, Ala.; Naval Air Station Meridian, Miss.; Barksdale Air Force Base, La.; Alexandria, La.; and Fort Polk, La., to expedite the movement of relief supplies and emergency personnel to affected areas, officials reported.

In addition, NORTHCOM liaisons are operating in Clanton, Ala.; Baton Rouge, La.; and Jackson, Miss., to coordinate efforts between the command, other DoD elements and FEMA.

Standing Joint Forces Headquarters North will provide an augmentation cell and its command-and-control vehicle to Joint Task Force Katrina, and JTF Civil Support will provide a joint planning augmentation cell, officials said.

Meanwhile, in Colorado Springs, Colo., NORTHCOM's Joint Operations Center remains on 24-hour duty to expedite any additional requests for help from FEMA representatives, officials said.


The question is; what are YOU doing to aid disaster relief?

[ebuddy]

Originally Posted by art_director

Mississippi National Guard Troops in Iraq = 3,800
Louisiana National Guard Troops in Iraq = 3,000

Those 6,800 troops would come in real handy right about now.

As I stated above, these 6,800 are necessary in Iraq regardless of your desire to see us fail there. We have a great many resources being deployed where they can for disaster relief. You may not know, there are more than a few logistics concerns in getting them where they're needed. I've seen an incredible amount of ignorance in the indictments of Bush, I don't know why yours surprised me.

[art_director]

That doesn't make my statement any less true::

Those 6,800 troops would come in real handy right about now.

[Troll]

Originally Posted by art_director

Where is Bush? Don't know where he is today, but on Tuesday this is what he was doing::

http://news.yahoo.com/photo/050830/480/capm10208301856

I've never been President but this seems like an odd way to aid disaster relief.

Shut up about the floods and watch this drive.

[SimeyTheLimey]

Originally Posted by art_director

That doesn't make my statement any less true::

Those 6,800 troops would come in real handy right about now.

You cannot argue in favor of sending those troops to a natural disaster unless you are willing to enlist yourself. When are you going to enlist, chickenhawk?

(This parody brought to you by the letters S T F and U).

[smacintush]

Originally Posted by SimeyTheLimey

You cannot argue in favor of sending those troops to a natural disaster unless you are willing to enlist yourself. When are you going to enlist, chickenhawk?

(This parody brought to you by the letters S T F and U).

[art_director]

Originally Posted by SimeyTheLimey

You cannot argue in favor of sending those troops to a natural disaster unless you are willing to enlist yourself. When are you going to enlist, chickenhawk?

(This parody brought to you by the letters S T F and U).

That is the worst attempt at an argument I've seen.

[ebuddy]

Originally Posted by Troll

Shut up about the floods and watch this drive.

Why would you assume he was golfing? Because President Clinton likes to golf? Bush was shown playing a guitar. Please quit being a moron.

[ebuddy]

Originally Posted by art_director

That doesn't make my statement any less true::

Those 6,800 troops would come in real handy right about now.

No, they aren't needed. There are more than enough resources being deployed for disaster relief. The problem is not manpower, it's getting the manpower where it's needed. Again, regardless of your "pull and run" attitude towards our actions in Iraq.

[ebuddy]

Originally Posted by art_director

That is the worst attempt at an argument I've seen.

You've yet to answer what you're doing to aid disaster relief. What are YOU doing to help solve the problem. You, your wife, and your children would be handy there right now also then right?

[SimeyTheLimey]

Originally Posted by art_director

That is the worst attempt at an argument I've seen.

It's not an argument, it's a parody of an argument. I'm making fun of the anti-Iraq war left's tendency toward inconsistency and tendency to demagogue.

[MacNStein]

Originally Posted by art_director

That is the worst attempt at an argument I've seen.

I think that sailed right over your head.

[art_director]

Originally Posted by ebuddy

No, they aren't needed. There are more than enough resources being deployed for disaster relief. The problem is not manpower, it's getting the manpower where it's needed. Again, regardless of your "pull and run" attitude towards our actions in Iraq.

Please show me where I said anything about pulling out of Iraq.

[art_director]

Originally Posted by ebuddy

You've yet to answer what you're doing to aid disaster relief. What are YOU doing to help solve the problem. You, your wife, and your children would be handy there right now also then right?

I'm not emergency personel. They've specifically asked that only emergency personel travel to the scene at this point. That leaves me with contributing cash, which I've done.

[art_director]

Originally Posted by MacNStein

I think that sailed right over your head.

apparently so.

[Troll]

Originally Posted by ebuddy

Why would you assume he was golfing? Because President Clinton likes to golf? Bush was shown playing a guitar. Please quit being a moron.

Oh, I'm sorry. He was playing guitar. That's completely different.

It was a reference to Fahrenheit 9/11, you moron. (normally I don't call people names, but you called me one).

[davesimondotcom]

Originally Posted by SimeyTheLimey

You cannot argue in favor of sending those troops to a natural disaster unless you are willing to enlist yourself. When are you going to enlist, chickenhawk?

(This parody brought to you by the letters S T F and U).

Post of the week.

If President Bush was out there with a bucket and some sandbags trying to physically fix the levees and bail water out by hand, he'd be accused of ignoring Iraq.

[Troll]

Originally Posted by davesimondotcom

If President Bush was out there with a bucket and some sandbags trying to physically fix the levees and bail water out by hand...

Nah, that would cause hell to freeze over and then you'd really have a problem in NOLA.

[art_director]

Originally Posted by davesimondotcom

Post of the week.

If President Bush was out there with a bucket and some sandbags trying to physically fix the levees and bail water out by hand, he'd be accused of ignoring Iraq.

Ignorance is breeding on these threads.

[finboy]

Originally Posted by art_director

Mississippi National Guard Troops in Iraq = 3,800
Louisiana National Guard Troops in Iraq = 3,000

Those 6,800 troops would come in real handy right about now.

Many of those 6800 troops would be homeless and on busses to the Astrodome about now. Those that actually lived in the stricken areas would be in the same shape as everyone else.

The complete lack of context on this is mind-boggling. Not just here, but in the media, too. I saw it during the Florida hurricanes last year. The call was "why isn't anything being done?" or "why aren't things happening faster?" Until you've been through a disaster of this type (for me, hurricanes Hugo and Floyd) you may not understand how things work after the storm hits -- THEY DON'T. Nothing works, because it's a freaking disaster area. In this case, the highways are out.

Anyhow, I'm tired of hearing the b*tching about "slow" responses. Sure, it's a catastrophe of Biblical proportions, but that doesn't mean we can suspend the laws of physics in providing relief. Evidently, we can't suspend the laws of human nature, either.

Peggy Noonan makes a good distinction about looters: food and necessities in a disaster area, folks aren't looting (they'd pay for it if they could). Given the proper infrastructure, govt. would step in and hand things out. Carrying away a TV - that's looting. IMO, folks should start shooting on sight. If people were looting my home, I'd give a warning and that's about it.

It's not unprecedented -- again, eyewitness accounts make a difference. A couple of years ago there was looting in VA Beach. The NG and Reserves were called in and told to shoot looters, and they did. I talked to folks who were there to see it. Did you read about it in the papers?

[osiris]

Originally Posted by art_director

Ignorance is breeding on these threads.

Ignorance has already bred.

[art_director]

Originally Posted by finboy

Many of those 6800 troops would be homeless and on busses to the Astrodome about now. Those that actually lived in the stricken areas would be in the same shape as everyone else.

So you have information suggesting that all of the National Guard in the area lived where the devestation is? Ididn'tthinkso.

Originally Posted by finboy

The complete lack of context on this is mind-boggling. Not just here, but in the media, too. I saw it during the Florida hurricanes last year. The call was "why isn't anything being done?" or "why aren't things happening faster?" Until you've been through a disaster of this type (for me, hurricanes Hugo and Floyd) you may not understand how things work after the storm hits -- THEY DON'T. Nothing works, because it's a freaking disaster area. In this case, the highways are out.

Thank you for your earth-shattering observation. Of course things move slowly. My point is and always has been that moving as fast as possible will save lives. That is a indisputable fact.

Originally Posted by finboy

Anyhow, I'm tired of hearing the b*tching about "slow" responses. Sure, it's a catastrophe of Biblical proportions, but that doesn't mean we can suspend the laws of physics in providing relief. Evidently, we can't suspend the laws of human nature, either.

Again, not 'bitching', simply stating facts – fast response = more lives saved.

[art_director]

Originally Posted by osiris

Ignorance has already bred.

Yes, it has.

[spacefreak]

Originally Posted by art_director

Thank you for your earth-shattering observation. Of course things move slowly. My point is and always has been that moving as fast as possible will save lives. That is a indisputable fact.

Everyone is working as fast as possible. While New Orleans is obviously the most population-dense area, Katrina destoyed much more than just that one city.

Deployment of off-duty personnel also takes time, and it's not like the folks in large parts of La. or Miss. have power and telephone service to receive those phone calls.

[Troll]

Well, honestly, I'm not sure that the Government is handling this anymore. I'm watching the news on CNN Europe and on LCI and there are some dire reports coming out of there. There's a Spanish member of parliament stuck at the Convention Center reporting that people are dying at the Convention Center, that there is no central authority there and that none of the dead or injured are being attended to.

This disaster may have been small compared to the tsunami, but the response after the tsunami by aid agencies appears to have been better. 72 hours later, you saw them everywhere feeding and clothing and providing medical assistance. I don't see any of that in the images on CNN. Perhaps that's because the aid agencies were present in the poorer countries in South East Asia and they knew that they were the only hope of the victims. So they got stuck in immediately. Perhaps in the case of Katrina, the government is not as efficient as people and agencies thought it would be. The mayor is asking for help, the people I've seen there are asking for help.

This could become extremely dangerous if it's not dealt with properly in the next 24 hours.

[spacefreak]

Originally Posted by Troll

Well, honestly, I'm not sure that the Government is handling this anymore. I'm watching the news on CNN Europe and on LCI and there are some dire reports coming out of there. There's a Spanish member of parliament stuck at the Convention Center reporting that people are dying at the Convention Center, that there is no central authority there and that none of the dead or injured are being attended to.

Don't be foolish. There is still a massive rescue operation going on. A few hours ago, I heard that at least another 1000 people have been rescued today. Those who are dead are dead. The focus is on getting those who are still alive through out the region to a safe place (dry ground). Busses are taking people from the convention center and superdome to Texas where they have been racing to set up a massive refugee operation.

This disaster may have been small compared to the tsunami, but the response after the tsunami by aid agencies appears to have been better. 72 hours later, you saw them everywhere feeding and clothing and providing medical assistance. I don't see any of that in the images on CNN. Perhaps that's because the aid agencies were present in the poorer countries in South East Asia and they knew that they were the only hope of the victims. So they got stuck in immediately. Perhaps in the case of Katrina, the government is not as efficient as people and agencies thought it would be. The mayor is asking for help, the people I've seen there are asking for help.

This could become extremely dangerous if it's not dealt with properly in the next 24 hours.

It was dangerous the moment Katrina hit. You're only seeing coverage of one city and pretty much one large shelter, which has no power or plumbing. Hundreds of thousands of people are already at shelters with power and food.

A huge area spanning parts of 3 states was devastated - numerous cities, and believe me, disaster efforts have been going on all over those places as well.

[pooka]

For ****'s sake...

Ok, I do not know exactly what's going on. All I can tell you is what I see and hear from those still in the area.

Police are doing what they can. Some are being dicks, but most just want to help. They are being shot at. They are not recognized as any sort of authority in the area. It is difficult to drop off supplies via helicopter when you are dodging bullets. Attempts are being made. There is a steady stream of military, coast guard and civilian aircraft heading into the NOLA area every hour.

Communication is a SERIOUS problem on the ground. The cell network is OVERLOADED by everyone in the area and cell towers are failing without power. Again, supplies are being brought in but armed assholes are a serious problem.

So, it seems that things are a little more difficult than just going in and helping people.

[swrate]

i tried posting this reply to cody dawg yesterday could not get through.



the first star should of been the President:

it's place is here if the connection is willing to reach aim


10,100,1000,10000 stars,
oooh
I wonder if the apathy of the masses does not come from the way the Media presents the situation, and the Government may be not wanting to alarm and cause fear within the population.

After 9/11, the first casualty numbers presented on our news here were 50 000, whereas in this tragedy, the numbers brought this morning! (2 days later) were around 80.… in Europe this year we had 100 or more gone from winds and floods and storms. In Switzerland, Bern and Lucerne were under the water, (just one week causes a lot of damage, & it may be five times longer with Katrina )a few drowned this summer, and in Romania the disaster, mud and floods, wiped away small villages. So the reaction or lack of reaction is due to the little information about the gravity of the situations. From this side, the Hurricane seemed nowhere neat the Tsunami, and parts of Europe just went through severe floodings after violent storms.
Katerina was announced 5, then 4, then 3, so people stopped worrying. (generalization)

I am surprised the situation is nearly zapped, at least in my opinion. I always felt bad for Louisiana, losing every day acres of land, the poor parent of the US, down the statistics in most fields, and now this...
Looking at sky maps one is forced to realize how awful this tragedy is and the consequences it will have, fear and survival instinct develops., groups of people move around, others live in bad conditions, this creates tensions, illness death.
When the tsunami hit, Medias were covering sometimes non-stop the horror, interrupting regular programs, for Katrina, hardly any reports. 100? It would be a relief if the number stopped there.
Little coverage, why? After 9/11 day we were a long time without really knowing anything.
100 seems to me an under estimation. Anyway,
See what happened in Iraq today, 800, 900?
Losing lives.
Losing land
Losing $$$$

We are used to information going fast, in this case, lack of electricity, water food and comfort, it must be difficult and terrible on the ground, to move and to communicate.
Media has cheated us into thinking it was not « that bad »
I don’t think anyone knows and will know for a few weeks,
GWBush did not ask for international help.



En résumé votre President a réagit tard à la situation en la sous-estimant.






addenda today:
Presidents after tsunami flew over the situation as soon as the danger was over to evaluate and estimate the needs.

[finboy]

Originally Posted by Troll

This disaster may have been small compared to the tsunami, but the response after the tsunami by aid agencies appears to have been better. 72 hours later, you saw them everywhere feeding and clothing and providing medical assistance.

I call B*LLSH*T on this one. What you saw were the places where CNN had reporters. Plus, a mile from the beach they had power. Not so here.

What we're seeing here is an effort to cast blame on the Republican governor of Mississippi and a Republican administration, facilitated by a captive news media and revisionistas/partisans on teh IntraWeb.

[Troll]

Originally Posted by finboy

I call B*LLSH*T on this one. What you saw were the places where CNN had reporters. Plus, a mile from the beach they had power. Not so here.

What we're seeing here is an effort to cast blame on the Republican governor of Mississippi and a Republican administration, facilitated by a captive news media and revisionistas/partisans on teh IntraWeb.

CNN wants to cast blame on Bush? Wouldn't they mention his name if that was the case? Charity Hospital staff said they haven't seen a policeman or a member of the military since the hurricane. And they're being sniped! This is a big hospital; somewhere security goes first right?

At the Convention Center, the Spanish PM says there is no central authority. There are no ambulances. On CNN they showed pictures of bodies that people had pushed up against the employee entrance. People interviewed explained that they had died while waiting outside the Convention Center. Apparently there are more bodies inside. Again, the Convention Center should have been the first place security went.

There was a British disaster expert on Sky saying the same thing I am. He said that FEMA are the best in the world and that the US has the capacity to handle this on their own but that apparently people weren't being sent to the right place because they weren't appearing where you'd expect them to. Maybe they're securing the Oil Ministry.

[SimeyTheLimey]

Originally Posted by Troll

CNN wants to cast blame on Bush? Wouldn't they mention his name if that was the case? Charity Hospital staff said they haven't seen a policeman or a member of the military since the hurricane. And they're being sniped! This is a big hospital; somewhere security goes first right?

At the Convention Center, the Spanish PM says there is no central authority. There are no ambulances. On CNN they showed pictures of bodies that people had pushed up against the employee entrance. People interviewed explained that they had died while waiting outside the Convention Center. Apparently there are more bodies inside. Again, the Convention Center should have been the first place security went.

There was a British disaster expert on Sky saying the same thing I am. He said that FEMA are the best in the world and that the US has the capacity to handle this on their own but that apparently people weren't being sent to the right place because they weren't appearing where you'd expect them to. Maybe they're securing the Oil Ministry.

The fact that there is still a Spanish MP there is probably an indication of just how disrupted the roads in and out of New Orleans, and within the city are. After all, a Spanish MP isn't homeless. He has no reason to stay there waiting to be moved to a homeless shelter. If the roads were easily passable, he'd find a way out, and make his way home. But he's still there, which means that most likely vehicles have a hard time getting in and out. And in fact, Mapquest has a page listing the closed roads along the Gulf. The phrase "all roads are closed" is widely used. I-10, I-12, etc are all closed.

This isn't surprising to anyone who has driven in and out of New Orleans, and along the Gulf Coast. The highways are built on causeways that are normally just above sea level and the bayou. I'm guessing that those that aren't washed away are covered in debris, and maybe still water (Mapquest confirms this). Ambulances and cop cars are not amphibious vehicles.

Moreover, it isn't as though the damage is localized. The TV news is concentrating on the city of New Orleans, but the damage extends deep inland. Not only is there flooding all along the entire coast right through Mississippi (about a 2 to 3 hour drive at the best of times), but there is also hurricane wind damage inland, and damage caused by tornadoes touched off by Katrina as far away as Georgia.

The comparison to the Tsunami is not completely appropriate. The islands that were hit by the wave were above sea level. The wave came in, and then for the most part, it washed back out again and the waters receded. Higher land just a few hundred meters away was not flooded. That's why there was all that dramatic footage of the surge coming in that we all saw on the web within a few days. We haven't seen the same thing here because the damage extends far deeper inland, and because the places hit in New Orleans are below sea level. When the levee burst, the water came in and stayed in. Contrast that with the scenes in places like Biloxi, which are above sea level. There, the water came in, and went out again -- like the Tsunami did.

That difference probably explains a great deal of why New Orleans is continuing to be more chaotic than the cities up the Gulf Coast. The situation in New Orleans is physically closer to the situation in the Netherlands in 1952. There, as in New Orleans, permanent flooding occurred, not just a big temporary surge wave. The reason is the same, the place was below sea level to begin with. When the dikes (or levee) breached, the water comes in, it doesn't cooperatively drain itself. And of course, the water around New Orleans is essentially swamp, unlike either the Netherlands or the Indian Ocean. Dutch victims didn't have to worry about snakes and alligators. Nor did they have to worry about drug gangs, which, unfortunately, is a significant problem in New Orleans at the best of times. Tourists don't see it much, but that city has one of the country's highest crime rates. And to be blunt, the City of New Orleans is also not known as one of America's best run cities. Rudy Giuliani's New York it is not, but still, it's very impressive that they managed to evacuate 80% of a city and thus saved thousands of lives, including several close members of my family.

As regards FEMA:

Federal Emergency Management Director Michael Brown told CNN that federal officials were unaware of the crowds at the convention center until Thursday, despite the fact that city officials had been telling people for days to gather there.

"We just learned about that today, and so I have directed that we have all available resources to get to that convention center to make sure that they have the food and water, the medical care that they need," he said.

CNN

It's easy sitting based on a report like that to point fingers and say that someone (most likely the city) dropped the ball. But the fact is, we are sitting here in dry offices with power and communications. We aren't chest deep in polluted swamp water with no power, no communications, no passable way to send runners back and forth to collect information, police forces with only 80% manpower (see the CNN article), hospitals miles inland washed away, roads impassible, no fresh water supplies and no way to ship it in, no food, and so on. Critics expecting easy miracles are being cruelly obtuse.