[TETENAL]

Is Looting a Question of Skin Color?

Yahoo news photo:

http://news.yahoo.com/photo/050830/480/ladm10208301530

A black man looting.

http://news.yahoo.com/photo/050830/480/ladm10908301723

A black man looting.

http://news.yahoo.com/photo/050830/p...hxwaoma_photo1

A withe couple finding bread and soda.

So the white people don't "loot", they "find". A curious insight into prevalent racism in the US media; just as one man's "terrorist" is another man's "freedom fighter," it seems one man's "looter", is another man's "finder". You decide.

[von Wrangell]

Good find.

But I predict this thread to go up in flames very soon.

:grabs soda and popcorn and grabs a front row seat:

[badidea]

Originally Posted by von Wrangell

But I predict this thread to go up in flames very soon.

But this time we shouldn't flame each other - we should flame Yahoo news!

[von Wrangell]

Originally Posted by badidea

But this time we shouldn't flame each other - we should flame Yahoo news!

Completely agree. But the fact that those captions were used gives us an indication of more than what the person who put it up thinks.

[TETENAL]

Originally Posted by von Wrangell

[T]he fact that those captions were used gives us an indication of more than what the person who put it up thinks.

What else does it indicate?

[ghporter]

Note that the vast majority of the population of New Orleans is black, and it seems that far more black people either chose not to evacuate or were unable to evacuate. Further, the only pictures I've seen of active looting have been of groups of black people. Since it seems that looting is particularly common and widespread, don't you think at least a few of those pictures would have shown white people? I'm not sure if we're seeing bias on the part of the news people, or just that the majority of the activity is being portrayed in the pictures we're seeing.

Personally it looks like a "low class, low income" issue to me, and I've been dirt poor myself though I never, EVER thought about heaping property crimes upon people who had been already victimized by the weather. You can be poor and have class-but these looters seem to be almost subhuman in their disregard for the people they're looting from.

[von Wrangell]

Originally Posted by ghporter

Note that the vast majority of the population of New Orleans is black, and it seems that far more black people either chose not to evacuate or were unable to evacuate. Further, the only pictures I've seen of active looting have been of groups of black people. Since it seems that looting is particularly common and widespread, don't you think at least a few of those pictures would have shown white people? I'm not sure if we're seeing bias on the part of the news people, or just that the majority of the activity is being portrayed in the pictures we're seeing.

Personally it looks like a "low class, low income" issue to me, and I've been dirt poor myself though I never, EVER thought about heaping property crimes upon people who had been already victimized by the weather. You can be poor and have class-but these looters seem to be almost subhuman in their disregard for the people they're looting from.

It's not that though. Look at the pics above and the difference in the captions. There is something seriously f*cked up when that gets published.

[von Wrangell]

Originally Posted by TETENAL

What else does it indicate?

Do you think something like that could be published in a major German media outlet (the pics and captions)?

[Troll]

Yeah well we know who was happiest with his "purchase".

[badidea]

Originally Posted by von Wrangell

Do you think something like that could be published in a major German media outlet (the pics and captions)?

BILD would do it!

[badidea]

Originally Posted by Troll

Yeah well we know who was happiest with his "purchase".

Looks like he found something to drink (and maybe water bottles were already all gone)!

[TETENAL]

Originally Posted by von Wrangell

Do you think something like that could be published in a major German media outlet (the pics and captions)?

Hardly any black people live in Germany, so it's unlikely to have the same pictures. But if we had such an incident with looting, I can very well imagine that there could be different captions for pictures of looters of Turkish (origin) and German looters. I have no illusions. There is racism in Germany. I'm also not free of all racist thoughts all the time. Something like this could have happened here too. It needs to be pointed out and condemned nevertheless.

[turtle777]

Originally Posted by von Wrangell

:steals soda and popcorn and steals a front row seat:

Blackinated !

-t

[spacefreak]

Originally Posted by TETENAL

Is Looting a Question of Skin Color?

What proof does anyone other than the photographer have that the white folks looted. Seems to me the photographer was the only one of any of us on the scene, and for all we know, that bread could have floated out of a completely flooded store.

I don't know either way, but there is no evidence that these white folks in the photo broke into a store to get the bread. We can only go by what the photographer saw.

Furthermore, there are more than enough photos of white folks in New Orleans looting to show that this is not some sort of racist coverage. If it were, all those photo captions would state the same thing.

Keep grasping, folks. None of us were there.

[badidea]

You don't get it spacefreak.
It doesn't matter if the pictures show the truth or not - it only matters that the pictures show black people looting but white people finding food!

I think it is unwanted and just coincidence but still a bit suspicious...
(3 pictures are not enough though - if there would be 10 pictures with the same scheme, it would really be suspicious)

[OSX Abuser]

Who and where was it said that any society is three meals/days from revolution?

[dcolton]

Originally Posted by TETENAL

Hardly any black people live in Germany, so it's unlikely to have the same pictures. But if we had such an incident with looting, I can very well imagine that there could be different captions for pictures of looters of Turkish (origin) and German looters. I have no illusions. There is racism in Germany. I'm also not free of all racist thoughts all the time. Something like this could have happened here too. It needs to be pointed out and condemned nevertheless.

I am sire the Germans would blame it on the Jews.

[turtle777]

Originally Posted by dcolton

I am sire the Germans would blame it on the Jews.

If you knew about German history, you would know that the German's would have been those who plundered the Jewish stores. Ah well...

-t

[davesimondotcom]

Yahoo is saying they are just publishing what is on the wires, and I can believe that.

But here is my take:

People, of any color, can get desperate for survival in a situation like that. They will "steal" food (although, the way N.O. is right now, food and water should be expected to be taken.)

It is when they are taking TVs, VCRs, etc. that it is looting. IMHO. Food and water, essentials for survival like clothing and blankets, that is just surviving.

[RAILhead]

I'll agree with Dave here.

Of course, I also think that people seen carrying non-food items from stores should have their elbows broken, plain and simple.

It's one thing to steal food -- it's another thing to steal that flat panel TV you've always wanted.

[micahgartman]

Originally Posted by Troll

Yeah well we know who was happiest with his "purchase".

Did ya happen to see what's in his back pocket?
mg

[ghporter]

Has anyone noticed that some of the specific pictures in question came from "AFP/Getty Images?" What does "AFP" stand for? Is it Agence France Press, which was mentioned in Yahoo!'s statement? Is this perhape where the bias has come from?

And Dave above is spot on in talking about the REAL looting problem-these idiots are stealing big-screen TVs, (power anyone?), other personal electronics, even guns. I'd BUY food for people until I ran out of money, but I certainly wouldn't hesitate to suggest that police shoot looters going through a sporting goods store for guns.

[idjeff]

It's always the "white devils" fault.


For the europeans posting here...What expertise/experience do you have with black/white relations in the US? It's not exactly 1964 anymore. The black population far exceeds the white population in New Orleans (67% vs 28% respectively), so it's likely that you would see more images of blacks than you would whites. As for the captions, I do see your point, however I wasn't there so it could be accurate. I also heard that stores were giving food away in the area and perhaps two of the caption's authors hadn't heard that little gem.

[spacefreak]

This made its rounds to me. I cannot verify it's authenticity, but I thought it might be worht a read...

Chris Graythen, Photographer, Photo Editor
new orleans | LA | USA | Posted: 6:10 PM Today


->> Jeasus, I don't belive how much crap I'm getting from this. First of all, I hope you excuse me, but I'm completely at the end of my rope. You have no Idea how stressful this whole disaster is, espically since I have not seen my wife in 5 days, and my parents and grand parents HAVE LOST THIER HOMES. As of right now, we have almost NOTHING.

Please stop emailing me on this one.


I wrote the caption about the two people who 'found' the items. I believed in my opinion, that they did simply find them, and not 'looted' them in the definition of the word. The people were swimming in chest deep water, and there were other people in the water, both white and black. I looked for the best picture. there were a million items floating in the water - we were right near a grocery store that had 5+ feet of water in it. it had no doors. the water was moving, and the stuff was floating away. These people were not ducking into a store and busting down windows to get electronics. They picked up bread and cokes that were floating in the water. They would have floated away anyhow. I wouldn't have taken in, because I wouldn't eat anything that's been in that water. But I'm not homeless. (well, technically I am right now.)

I'm not trying to be politically correct. I'm don't care if you are white or black. I spent 4 hours on a boat in my parent's neighborhood shooting, and rescuing people, both black and white, dog and cat. I am a journalist, and a human being - and I see all as such. If you don't belive me, you can look on Getty today and see the images I shot of real looting today, and you will see white and black people, and they were DEFINATELY looting. And I put that in the caption.

Please, please don't argue symantics over this one. This is EXTREMELY serious, and I can't even begin to convey to those not here what it is like. Please, please, be more concerned on how this affects all of us (watch gas prices) and please, please help out if you can.

This is my home, I will hopefully always be here. I know that my friends in this business across the gulf south are going through the exact same thing - and I am with them, and will do whatever I can to help. But please, please don't email me any more about this caption issue.

And please, don't yell at me about spelling and grammar. Im eating my first real meal (a sandwich) right now in 3 days.

When this calms down, I will be more than willing to answer any questions, just ask.


Thank you all -
-Chris Graythen

[OAW]

Racial bias in the media has a long history. This is but one example. Black kids in urban areas dealing crack are described as "gangs" while white kids in rural areas dealing meth are described as "a group of white youth". Pretty white blonde women who come up missing or dead get round the clock news coverage while black women in the same situation hardly get any coverage at all. Poor black people in urban areas hooked on street narcotics are described as "junkies" or "drug addicts" while wealthy white people in the suburbs hooked on pharmaceutical narcotics are described as being "addicted to prescription painkillers". Etc, etc. Regardless, the game is the same. The difference in the use of language to describe such situations can be very subtle and is not often openly or virulently racist ... but a careful analysis of the prevailing patterns in such usage certainly reveals a certain level of bias. Other examples of such disparate treatment involve the disproportionately high number of blacks who are searched during a traffic stop despite police statistics showing that they are far less likely to have contraband in their vehicle. Or how a black defendant is 4 times more likely to have his mug shot shown on a local news report than a white defendant. Or how a black defendant is twice as likely as a white defendant to be shown in handcuffs or have his name displayed on a local news report. The list goes on and on.

http://racerelations.about.com/od/st...blackimage.htm

Regarding the looting, there are people stealing food and water. There are others stealing items such as electronics, TVs, guns, etc. Most people view the former group as doing what is necessary to survive while the latter group is just taking advantage of a terrible situation. While that is undoubtedly the case in many of these instances, I don't see it quite so simplistically. The reality is that economy of New Orleans has come to an utter and complete standstill. And it will be that way for a long time coming. For the vast majority of the city's residents, going back to work on the day after all the water is drained away and the power is restored is simply not going to happen. People will have no source of income for the foreseeable future .... so it is to be expected that many will resort to a "grab what you can" mentality in such circumstances. So is someone who takes a TV that can't be used now due to lack of power but can be sold or bartered later really an "idiot" ... especially when his employment prospects will be practically non-existent for quite a while? What happens to the person who only took food when the food runs out? One can debate the "morality" of such actions from various angles I suppose. I just think it's extraordinarily easy to judge sitting up in relative comfort in an unaffected area.

One thing that I do find troubling though is how the mayor has seemingly succumbed to media coverage on this issue. Previously his policy was to ignore the "looters" and focus on the rescue mission. It's not as if the police had anywhere to put those arrested since the jails were flooded and being evacuated. But that approach has been changed and the police are now cracking down on looters instead of continuing to get survivors out of the city. So the lives or health of survivors is being put at risk to protect TVs and VCRs and beer. Which is especially troubling considering the fact that this is a multi-billion dollar disaster in New Orleans alone ... and the additional cost of looted goods from stores isn't going to materially impact the overall price tag for the recovery effort. But there are those who value property over human life. As evidenced by their "shoot the looters" mentality. Or is it that their attitude is to just shoot when it comes to black "looters" ... but it's to simply arrest or give a free pass to those white people who are just "finding" things?

OAW

[iLikebeer]

http://news.yahoo.com/page/photostatement
yahoo's take on it

Originally Posted by OAW

Racial bias in the media has a long history. This is but one example.....

That may be so, but it doesn't mean that is the case here. Don't feed the Germans more generalizations until the facts come out. They already think we're a bunch of racist hicks.

[Moderator]

The majority of the city is black.......most of the wealth is in the hands of whites....the wealthy were able to get out.

i.e. most of the people left are black..so yes it would make sense that most of the looters are black.

[spacefreak]

Originally Posted by OAW

... But that approach has been changed and the police are now cracking down on looters instead of continuing to get survivors out of the city. So the lives or health of survivors is being put at risk to protect TVs and VCRs and beer. Which is especially troubling considering the fact that this is a multi-billion dollar disaster in New Orleans alone ... and the additional cost of looted goods from stores isn't going to materially impact the overall price tag for the recovery effort. But there are those who value property over human life. As evidenced by their "shoot the looters" mentality. Or is it that their attitude is to just shoot when it comes to black "looters" ... but it's to simply arrest or give a free pass to those white people who are just "finding" things?

There are so many people involved in rescue efforts, it's unbelievable. But as more human resources become readily available, more can be allocated to protecting PRIVATE property.

Disasters should not become a free pass to rob and steal from others. I don't care what the circumstances. My house gets flooded, so that gives thugs the right to enter my home and steal all my jewelry? No way. And if I can direct the police who may discover these thugs taking my property, I'd absolutely direct them to shoot if my property is not dropped and the thugs do not leave my property.

Food, water... I don't think that's a big deal, and I don't think law enforcement have been targeting those who are simply grabbing nourishment. If I was a grocery store owner, I'd about welcome the storm survivors to my food. But the widespread looting of homes and shops... that's absolute crap.

Why don't you challenge the thieves to value life over property? Instead of breaking into my house and stealing my jewelry, why don't they help out my neighbor?

[OAW]

Originally Posted by iLikebeer

http://news.yahoo.com/page/photostatement
yahoo's take on it

That may be so, but it doesn't mean that is the case here. Don't feed the Germans more generalizations until the facts come out. They already think we're a bunch of racist hicks.

Perhaps you are right. But my point is that the news media in the US has a long-standing tendency to use language that implies a presumption of innocence when whites are involved in uh ... "questionable" activity ... whereas when blacks (or other minorities) are involved in similar situations the language used implies a presumption of criminality. In other words, the language used to describe whites in such circumstances tends to give them the benefit of the doubt. The photographer who took the picture of the white couple has written that he used the word "find" in relation to them because he didn't see them enter the store and come out with the food. Even though they were right outside a grocery store along with a lot of other people going in and out. Now common sense would tell just about anyone that people in that immediate area carrying food are overwhelmingly likely to have gotten it from the store. And common sense would also tell just about anyone that the food is not likely to have been purchased ... even if the food had floated out of the store and was retrieved immediately outside. But I suppose if you "find" food that doesn't belong to you right outside the store that's cool ... but if you walk in and take it you are a "looter". The question is do blacks in similar circumstances get the same kind of benefit of the doubt in the language used to describe their actions in the media. And the answer unfortunately is generally not.

Another example of the tendency to use language that makes a presumption of non-criminality on the part of whites ....

http://news.yahoo.com/photos/ss/even...VvBHNlYwNzc20-

The caption reads, "As one person looks through their shopping bag, left, another jumps through a broken window, while leaving a convenience store ... in Metairie, La."
So we have a white man walking right outside a convenience store that is actively being "looted" as evidenced the photo showing a man jumping out of a broken window and other people still inside when the place is definitely not open for business. We see him holding a grocery bag in his hand as he peruses the contents. Yet nevertheless, the language used to describe the white man's action assumes his ownership of the grocery bag and by implication the contents therein. The word "loot" nor any of its derivatives is used anywhere in the caption of that photo. In fact, nothing in the language used implies or even suggests criminality on the part of the white man at all.

Now consider the situation described in the following article ...

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9160453/

"Outside a Rite-Aid pharmacy where thieves had commandeered a forklift and used it to push up the storm shutters and break the glass, a woman on a bicycle rode up Thursday and asked whether police were making arrests inside. Told no, she said, “I’m a diabetic. I need test strips. I’m down to two. I don’t know if my insulin’s any good. It hasn’t been on ice.”"

Now what would be the caption used to describe the woman going into a pharmacy to get some insulin? Especially if she was black? And though it is not stated, given the demographics of New Orleans ... especially among those who could not afford to get out before the storm hit ... that is a strong probability. I daresay the answer lies in the fact that the writer chose to use the words "thieves" and "commandeered" to describe the people who broke into the pharmacy. But if they were a group of white people I'd bet my next paycheck that they would be described as "people who entered into a shuttered pharmacy to retrieve medical supplies" or something to that effect!

Even when the actions of a white person is undeniably criminal, the media tends to use language that is less harsh or indicting than that used to describe a black person in similar circumstance. That's why poor black people in urban areas steal, but wealthy white people in the suburbs embezzle or misappropriate funds.

OAW

Edit: Mysteriously the link I posted from Yahoo News that showed the white man looking in the grocery bag right outside a convenience store that was being looted is now pulling up another image. Regardless, my description of the photo was indeed accurate and my point about the caption stands.

[badidea]

Originally Posted by spacefreak

This made its rounds to me. I cannot verify it's authenticity, but I thought it might be worht a read...

Good find!

Seems like it was the expected coincidence.

[finboy]

Originally Posted by OSX Abuser

Who and where was it said that any society is three meals/days from revolution?

Probably Marx or Mao. Regardless, they were right.

[Kerrigan]

Before the hurricane hit, a lot of people on MacNN worked under the assumption that New Orleans was a city of white hicks, and thus it was acceptable for people like SWG or other gadflies to say things like "Who is stupid enough to live there"? or "Why are people dumb enough to stay in the city centre"?

People were even going so far as saying that the state deserved this catastrophe because of the Governor's role in blocking Kyoto.

But now that its become clear that the majority of victims are black, you cannot make criticisms like "why on earth did they remain in the city".

Now, as the survivors are looting, beating one another, raping women, shooting down support helicopters, attacking policemen, people are giving all sorts of excuses and cliche explanations as to why it is ocurring. If the survivors were white, and they were engaging in this type of behavior, they would be harshly criticized by everyone here.

Instead, things being what they are, all sorts of excuses are made up to shift blame.

[Buckaroo]

They took one of the images to the last link down by request. I have no idea what it was.

[Kerrigan]

Originally Posted by Buckaroo

They took one of the images to the last link down by request. I have no idea what it was.

It was a picture of two white people who appeared to have looted goods, but they were described in the caption as having "found" the food.

http://news.yahoo.com/page/photostatement

Go to this link and Yahoo gives a vague explanation of why it was removed, as well as links to discussions about the image.

[mojo2]

Two groups of people identified by the following behaviors and choices:

Educated. Hard working. Responsible for their own and their family's financial well being and have resources that permit them escape from and recourse to the deprivations of Katrina.

Less well educated. Hard working, but at lower paying jobs due to lower education. A higher % of unemployment. Less apt to assume full responsibility for their own or their family's financial well being. Unable to escape the effects of Katrina. Must depend on the government to provide for them and their families.

Now, let's look at decisions that were made BEFORE Katrina swept through which contributed to these two groups being where they are.

A belief in 'getting by' with the lowest and the least amount of effort. A failure to see beyond immediate gratification. No one who is older and wiser in the family who instructs the children in important life lessons. A belief that the Government will provide.

A belief in excelling and becoming the best that one can be. Delaying gratification in order to enjoy greater rewards by investing one's time and money and energies. Valuing the family unit and sacrificing to provide for the children and giving them the tangibleas AND the intangibles that will help them lead happy, healthy, stable and rewarding lives. A belief that the best government is small. That the taxpayer knows better how to use tax monies to benefit the tax payer than the government does.

And that the only one you can and should rely on when things get tight is oneself and one's family.

OK. Now, tell me which group is black and which is not black.

Then I'll tell you which is more likely to loot.

I know my post isn't answering the point you made in the OP, but when dealing with generalities and invisible elephants that can't be acknowledged publicly sometimes people's truths slip out.

I'd bet the writer who captioned the white people as "finding" the goods when the same (or a different) writer labeled blacks as looting products may have simply forgotten to turn on his PC filter.

And ladies and gents, I'll remind you, I am African American and this post hurts me to write.

[OAW]

Originally Posted by mojo2

Now, let's look at decisions that were made BEFORE Katrina swept through which contributed to these two groups being where they are.

A belief in 'getting by' with the lowest and the least amount of effort. A failure to see beyond immediate gratification. No one who is older and wiser in the family who instructs the children in important life lessons. A belief that the Government will provide.

A belief in excelling and becoming the best that one can be. Delaying gratification in order to enjoy greater rewards by investing one's time and money and energies. Valuing the family unit and sacrificing to provide for the children and giving them the tangibleas AND the intangibles that will help them lead happy, healthy, stable and rewarding lives. A belief that the best government is small. That the taxpayer knows better how to use tax monies to benefit the tax payer than the government does.

Surely you jest? Do my eyes deceive me or are you suggesting that the people who are in New Orleans now are there because they haven't adopted a conservative ideology? I suppose it can't simply be a matter of those who could afford to get out did ... and those who couldn't had no other choice but to try to survive as best they could in the city? I guess the remaining residents of a city that has suffered a complete breakdown of its infrastructure, economy, and law and order should just "pull themselves up by their bootstraps" and not expect government assistance in the middle of a crisis the likes of which this country has never seen. No ... that would just be way too logical.

OAW

[mojo2]

Originally Posted by OAW

Surely you jest? Do my eyes deceive me or are you suggesting that the people who are in New Orleans now are there because they haven't adopted a conservative ideology? I suppose it can't simply be a matter of those who could afford to get out did ... and those who couldn't had no other choice but to try to survive as best they could in the city? I guess the remaining residents of a city that has suffered a complete breakdown of its infrastructure, economy, and law and order should just "pull themselves up by their bootstraps" and not expect government assistance in the middle of a crisis the likes of which this country has never seen. No ... that would just be way too logical.

OAW

Does this act really 'work' for ya?

[Millennium]

Originally Posted by OAW

Racial bias in the media has a long history.

No, no it is not, and here is the proof. The photos were taken by different photographers, captioned by different editors, and released by different news agencies, one of which wasn't even American. You may be able to call bias on a single person, but four people in two different agencies who likely don't even know each other?

People are making a huge fuss over what has turned out to be absolutely nothing.

[TETENAL]

Originally Posted by Buckaroo

They took one of the images to the last link down by request. I have no idea what it was.

Maybe they didn't want to bring that white couple that was "finding" stuff in the grocery store into legal trouble.

[OAW]

Originally Posted by Millennium

No, no it is not, and here is the proof. The photos were taken by different photographers, captioned by different editors, and released by different news agencies, one of which wasn't even American. You may be able to call bias on a single person, but four people in two different agencies who likely don't even know each other?

People are making a huge fuss over what has turned out to be absolutely nothing.

Millennium,

Not once in this thread have you seen me say that the photos were taken by the same guy. I knew that from the beginning. But whether or not they were taken by the same guy or not is simply not the point. The issue being discussed ... or at least the angle that I approached it from ... goes way above and beyond this single situation. It has a long history and is very real.

The problem is that when issues of race come up there are those who go into "super specific" mode. That is, they tend to be so focused on the tree that the forest just uh, eludes them. You seem to be suggesting that this can't possibly be an issue of racial bias in the media unless you can show that a particular white reporter described the white guys in the situation one way and the black guys in the same situation another. As if since the photos were taken by different people in different agencies automatically gives them a free pass on the issue. The reality is that racial bias, stereotyping, prejudice ... whatever you want to call it ... is primarily a group phenomenon. In other words, the issue is the prevailing and lingering attitudes that white people as a group have towards black people as a group ... and how that plays out in the differences in the language used when describing the actions of whites and blacks. The reality is that those attitudes have a 400+ year history of being primarily negative. Things are improving, but there is still a long way to go. Additionally, it is also a fact that individual white people subscribe to those negative attitudes in varying degrees. Some are downright racist. Others don't get caught up in that foolishness at all. While the majority are somewhere in between .... generally good people who given certain circumstances may subtly reveal how they consciously, or more often subconsciously view black people (or other minorities) in general in a stereotypically negative manner.

Here's the deal. Most newsrooms are still overwhelmingly white ... and majority male. These are the people that make the decisions about which stories to cover and which ones to ignore. They make the writing and editing decisions. They decide which images are shown and the overall tone of the story. Furthermore, the majority of white people in this country develop their views of black people from the media instead of from personal or working relationships. In order to fully understand where I'm coming from you have to take a step back and look at the pattern of the coverage over time. It's not just about this one particular instance. White dominated news organizations have tendency to showcase criminality in the black community and downplay the positive. And it's vice versa for the white community. And this is why you will see plenty of images and stories about black people looting in New Orleans ... but you will hardly hear a peep about the looting going on in white rural areas along the gulf coast of Mississippi and Alabama. It is undoubtedly happening ... I was listening to a story on NPR just yesterday about that very thing ... but it simply will not get the same kind of coverage. It's the same reason why news stories about crack dealing are plastered with images of black dealers ... but news stories about meth dealing (when they are covered at all) tend not to show any pictures. It's why you don't see many movies about meth dealing white gangs while they are plentiful about crack dealing black gangs. It's why white people outside of a grocery store that is being actively ransacked "find" things or is looking through "his" bag ... while black people right next to them are "looting". So it's not about the individual reporters. It's about the prevailing attitudes in white news organizations that have a tendency to presume criminality on the part of blacks while giving the benefit of the doubt to whites. And before you go there ... no I don't think that there is some sort of concerted "conspiracy" to negatively portray black people in white news organizations. But OTOH that is hardly necessary. The disparity in coverage is just one of many byproducts of the 400+ year racial divide in this country.

OAW

[OAW]

I've made a few contributions to this thread, but I thought I'd make another one from a different angle. The very fact that this issue is even being discussed as widely as it is throughout the media is a testament to the fact that things are improving when it comes to the racial divide. Just a few years ago an issue like this would have been noticed and discussed within the black community only. You might have had some individual white people who may have noticed but the white media wouldn't have touched the story with a 10 foot pole. I find the fact that there are so many within the white blogging community who actually picked up on and made a stink about something that was relatively subtle to be a most positive development. I don't expect that the story would be getting the type of coverage it has in the mass media were it not for these individuals and the response they generated.

OAW

[Millennium]

Originally Posted by OAW

Not once in this thread have you seen me say that the photos were taken by the same guy. I knew that from the beginning.

You're telling me you know that the photos were taken by two completely and utterly separate entities, and yet you still claim bias? Where is the common thread which holds that bias?

The problem is that when issues of race come up there are those who go into "super specific" mode. That is, they tend to be so focused on the tree that the forest just uh, eludes them. You seem to be suggesting that this can't possibly be an issue of racial bias in the media unless you can show that a particular white reporter described the white guys in the situation one way and the black guys in the same situation another.

Not necessarily a particular reporter, but there needs to be some common thread. Different reporters, different photographers, different news agencies, different nations. Are you trying to paint "The Media" as some sort of monolithic entity?

The reality is that racial bias, stereotyping, prejudice ... whatever you want to call it ... is primarily a group phenomenon.

I don't know if I buy that at all. Certainly at one time it may have been, but society nowadays holds these biases in such scorn that building groups around them is nearly impossible. Even those groups which do form can no longer obtain any real power, as they could in the past.

Nowadays, racism survives as an individual phenomenon, at least in the US, because that's the only way it can survive. Its ability to exist as a group phenomenon has been quite thoroughly killed.

In other words, the issue is the prevailing and lingering attitudes that white people as a group have towards black people as a group ... and how that plays out in the differences in the language used when describing the actions of whites and blacks.

Look at the Snopes article I have quoted multiple times. The wording of the 'find' photo was driven entirely by policy: the reporter did not see them enter a store and take stuff out of it, so by the rules of his organization he was forbidden from using the word 'loot'. There has been no statement thus far from the person who captioned the 'loot' photo, but exactly how much bearing that reporter's words could have on the issue right now is debatable at best, because we know that the other reporter's hands, at least, were tied.

If you want to argue the merits of a theory of racism in the collective unconscious, then we can do that. However, this set of pictures is not evidence for your theory. It is, at best, an unfortunate coincidence.

[Spliffdaddy]

omg, Kerrigan... you're spot-on. If I'm not mistaken, this is the first time we've agreed on something.

[budster101]

What about the black cops looting the Wal-mart?
There was one white guy taking a shirt, and he said honestly, his family needs some cloths because they can't bath as it is...

All the black people in the video were walking with SHOPPING CARTS full of things...

I'm not racist, just being observant here.

[Athens]

lots of black people poor in New Orleans, lots of black people left behind, of course the majority of people you are going to see pictures of are going to be blacks.

[OAW]

Millenium,

Perhaps there was a policy that forbade the one reporter to use the word "loot" for the white couple. That still doesn't explain the other photo with the white man immediately outside a convenience store actively being looted ... but the caption reads "As one person looks through their shopping bag, left, another jumps through a broken window, while leaving a convenience store ... in Metairie, La." Oh yeah ... he was just leaving from a casual trip to the store to pick up a few things!

Again, the point I'm making goes above and beyond this particular situation.

OAW

[Synotic]

Originally Posted by Athens

lots of black people poor in New Orleans, lots of black people left behind, of course the majority of people you are going to see pictures of are going to be blacks.

This has been repeated over and over. This thread isn't asking directly whether looting is characteristic of specific race, which it might seem, given the large majority of African Americans in New Orleans. This thread is more specifically about what was believed to be a bias in two photos on Yahoo! and the usage of the word "looting." So perhaps a better title would be (although not as succinct) "Is the term 'looting' used selectively, depending on race?"

[mojo2]

Originally Posted by budster101

What about the black cops looting the Wal-mart?
There was one white guy taking a shirt, and he said honestly, his family needs some cloths because they can't bath as it is...

All the black people in the video were walking with SHOPPING CARTS full of things...

I'm not racist, just being observant here.

At a certain point conditions, circumstances and a growing realization of what is truly important (yes, and even that changes with time) wear on you. It beats you down and you have to pick your battles.

[loki74]

Interesting...

I don't think it's necessarily a fuction of race... Really nothing moral is.

It's a fuction of culture.. which can be closely consistent among racial groups (this is how stereotypes are formed--all asains are smart, all whites are racists, all blacks are dumb, etc) but are not the same.

The particular people doing this stuff were raised that way, those are the morals they are branded with.

All of us are capable of great evil... I would say that this is nurture, not nature. (For the most part)

Truly, great calamity brings out in people who they truly are--the best and the worst. I can't really tie to to race, at least not to the degree that the topic suggests.

[m a d r a]

Originally Posted by the photographer at the heart of the controversy

...I spent 4 hours on a boat in my parent's neighborhood shooting, and rescuing people, both black and white, dog and cat....

what's the point in rescuing them, if you've just shot them?