[mojo2]

In the Discovery Channel documentary, "Suicide Bombers: Cult of Death," Chief of Staff of Iran's Armed Forces, Gen. Hasan Firouzabadi, says,

"...No army can stand in the way of martyrdom...so the Americans should know if they try to interfere with Iran they will dig their own graves..."

The host of the show says, "martyrdom has become a way of life" in the Islamic world.

Who among you still believes that all we need do to be safe is to immediately withdraw from Iraq?



Or, maybe I'm wrong. Maybe that is our only hope.

[Face Ache]

The white gloves add a ladylike touch. I'll bet they've got the shiniest guns.

Again I'll propose my theory that only ugly people want to blow themselves up. All suicide bombers so far have been dog ugly.

If you live in a high risk area, never sit next to an ugly person on the bus.




ps: I'm sure the second to last woman in the photo is Terry Jones.

[mojo2]

Face Ache, if only things were that simple. The ugly ones will drive their cars and trucks (loaded with explosives) into our buildings, too.

Here's evidence of what I've mentioned before, that the terrorists are cheering on the leftists here in America. They are using the anti-war movement as a tool for their success.

Special Alert - No. 6
January 23, 2003 No.6

Editor of Iranian Conservative Government Daily Attacks President Bush and Calls on Muslim Youth to Launch Martyrdom Operations Against the U.S.
The following are excerpts from an editorial by Editor Hussain Shariatmadari that appeared in Iran's conservative daily, Kayhan:[1]

"Today, the majority of the peoples of America and Europe understand that Bush's personality is like [that of] one of the millions of vagabonds and bastards seen all over the world, particularly in America. Had he been born 150 years ago, and had he put a six-shooter on his belt, and had he robbed and killed the passengers of stage coaches traveling on the unguarded dusty mountainous roads in those days – if this kind of vagabond bastard had appeared [wearing] a sheriff's uniform… someone would have come to give him some bullets in the chest, ending his miserable life and saving [the taxpayer from paying] the money to hire the sheriff [and] preventing massacres. But what about today?"

"'Why drop bombs? Drop Bush from an airplane'… 'Bush is a fascist,' 'Bush is Hitler,' 'Bush is a war criminal'… 'Bush is stupid,' 'Bush is retarded,' 'Bush is insane.' These are slogans said daily by millions of people in America and Europe…"

"[The] great majority of Muslim people, particularly the young ones in Islamic countries, wait impatiently for American military action, because the stupidity of Bush and his gang and the massacre of millions of innocent Muslims [in Iraq]… will spark the same reaction [as in Palestine] and encourage young Muslims in other countries to take revenge on the American military."

"…Today, hundreds of young Palestinians are seeking martyrdom. They have written their names on the long list of Jihad, and they await [their] turn.There will be great opportunities to take revenge upon the American military, [and] this will be easier than the revenge [sought by] the Palestinians. Why miss the opportunity?"

"In the event of an American attack, the Muslim masses will join this divine and holy war. Lebanon and Palestine are two clear examples of this."

"…Can America stand in the way of people seeking Shehada [martyrdom] in God's way? Will the seekers of martyrdom get their wish because of the American presence in the region?"

"Imam Khomeini said: 'A nation that seeks Shehada is unfettered.'"

[1] Kayhan Daily, (Iran), January 21, 2003.

http://memri.org/bin/articles.cgi?Pa...a&ID=SA603

[mojo2]

Originally Posted by Face Ache

The white gloves add a ladylike touch. I'll bet they've got the shiniest guns.

Again I'll propose my theory that only ugly people want to blow themselves up. All suicide bombers so far have been dog ugly.

Does your theory hold for guy martyrs?

[Doofy]

Originally Posted by mojo2

Looks like proof that if Germany objects to any US action against Iran it's down to their not wanting to lose a portion of their arms trade.

[mojo2]

Originally Posted by Doofy

Looks like proof that if Germany objects to any US action against Iran it's down to their not wanting to lose a portion of their arms trade.

Are those H&K's?

[Doofy]

Originally Posted by mojo2

Are those H&K's?

On closer inspection, probably not. My bad.

[mojo2]

Originally Posted by Doofy

On closer inspection, probably not. My bad.

Well, after I did a closer inspection I was seeing indications that you were right!

I'm in the middle of putting some other posts together or else I'd go to the H&K site and look. But now that you mention it, they DO look like H&K's.

Yeah, I can't see the stocks and you'd have to imagine them without the pictured stock which holds the mag lite, but everything else looks like it. IMHO. Anyone able to confirm or rule out whether these are MP5 in these Iranian females' clutches?

THE MP5

The MP5 Submachine Gun. This world renowned submachine gun is the standard by which all others are judged. These state of the art submachine guns employ the same roller delayed blowback system found in the famous G3 Automatic Rifle. All the elements of HK excellence; reliability, ease of handling, simple maintenance, and safety are highlighted on the MP5. Firing from the closed-bolt position during all modes of fire makes MP5 submachine guns extremely accurate and controllable.

Used by military and law enforcement units in more than 50 nations, theMP5 is firmly established as the world's pre-eminent submachine gun. Over 120 variants of the HK MP5 submachine gun are available to address the widest range of tactical requirements. The MP5-N or Navy model variants come with Navy trigger groups, retractable shoulder stocks, tritium front sight posts and specially threaded barrels that can be used with or without an optional wet technology stainless steel sound suppressor.

A selection of optional trigger groups allow for single fire only, (variant known as the MP5SD, when no select fire is desired,) full automatic, 2-round and 3-round burst options. The weapon's unique modular design and a variety of optional buttstocks, forearms, sight mounts and other accessories gives the MP5 extraordinary flexibility to meet most any mission requirement.
http://www.hkdefense.us/pages/milita...g/mp5/mp5.html

[Y3a]

<< Does your theory hold for guy martyrs? >>

That guy JUST had his face and back shaved. I understand they used a Weed Wapper.

[mojo2]

BUMP to reflect current conditions.

[Face Ache]

So the middle east is a can of worms.

Who knew?!

Is there a draft in here?

[mojo2]

Here's his speech there are some passages you should pay special attention to.

Special Dispatch Series - No. 1013
October 28, 2005 No.1013

Iranian President at Tehran Conference: "Very Soon, This Stain of Disgrace [i.e. Israel] Will Vanish from the Center of the Islamic World - and This is Attainable"

In advance of Iran's Jerusalem Day, which was established by Ayatollah Khomeini and is marked annually on the fourth Friday of the month of Ramadan, the "World without Zionism" conference was held in Tehran.

At the conference, Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad spoke to the representatives of Hamas and Islamic Jihad, members of the Society for the Defense of the Palestinian Nation, and members of the Islamic Students Union, and an audience of hundreds of students.

In his speech, he described his vision of an age-old confrontation between the world of Islam and the "World of Arrogance," i.e. the West; he portrayed Israel and Zionism as the spearhead of the West against the Islamic nation; and he emphasized the need to eliminate Israel – which, he claimed, was a goal that was attainable.

Speeches were also delivered by representatives of Hizbullah leader Hassan Nasrallah and Hamas leader Khaled Mash'al.

The Iranian Students News Agency (ISNA), published the full text of Ahmadinejad's speech. The following is a translation of excerpts from ISNA's report and from the speech. [1]



"Prior to his statement, Ahmadinejad said that if you plan to chant the slogan 'Death to Israel,' say it in the right and complete way.

"The president warned the leaders of the Islamic world that they should be wary of Fitna [civil strife]: 'If someone is under the pressure of hegemonic power [i.e. the West] and understands that something is wrong, or he is naïve, or he is an egotist and his hedonism leads him to recognize the Zionist regime – he should know that he will burn in the fire of the Islamic Ummah [nation]…'

"Ahmadinejad articulated the real meaning of Zionism: '...We must see what the real story of Palestine is... The establishment of the regime that is occupying Jerusalem was a very grave move by the hegemonic and arrogant system [i.e. the West] against the Islamic world. We are in the process of an historical war between the World of Arrogance [i.e. the West] and the Islamic world, and this war has been going on for hundreds of years.

"'In this historical war, the situation at the fronts has changed many times. During some periods, the Muslims were the victors and were very active, and looked forward, and the World of Arrogance was in retreat.

"'Unfortunately, in the past 300 years, the Islamic world has been in retreat vis-à-vis the World of Arrogance… During the period of the last 100 years, the [walls of the] world of Islam were destroyed and the World of Arrogance turned the regime occupying Jerusalem into a bridge for its dominance over the Islamic world...

"'This occupying country [i.e. Israel ] is in fact a front of the World of Arrogance in the heart of the Islamic world. They have in fact built a bastion [ Israel ] from which they can expand their rule to the entire Islamic world... This means that the current war in Palestine is the front line of the Islamic world against the World of Arrogance, and will determine the fate of Palestine for centuries to come.

"'Today the Palestinian nation stands against the hegemonic system as the representative of the Islamic Ummah [nation]. Thanks to God, since the Palestinian people adopted the Islamic war and the Islamic goals, and since their struggle has become Islamic in its attitude and orientation, we have been witnessing the progress and success of the Palestinian people.'

"Ahmadinejad said: 'The issue of this [World without Zionism] conference is very valuable. In this very grave war, many people are trying to scatter grains of desperation and hopelessness regarding the struggle between the Islamic world and the front of the infidels, and in their hearts they want to empty the Islamic world.

"'... They [ask]: 'Is it possible for us to witness a world without America and Zionism?' But you had best know that this slogan and this goal are attainable, and surely can be achieved…

"'When the dear Imam [Khomeini] said that [the Shah's] regime must go, and that we demand a world without dependent governments, many people who claimed to have political and other knowledge [asked], 'Is it possible [that the Shah's regime can be toppled]?'

"'That day, when Imam [Khomeini] began his movement, all the powers supported [the Shah's] corrupt regime… and said it was not possible. However, our nation stood firm, and by now we have, for 27 years, been living without a government dependent on America. Imam [Khomeni] said: 'The rule of the East [U.S.S.R.] and of the West [ U.S. ] should be ended.' But the weak people who saw only the tiny world near them did not believe it.

"'Nobody believed that we would one day witness the collapse of the Eastern Imperialism [i.e. the U.S.S.R], and said it was an iron regime. But in our short lifetime we have witnessed how this regime collapsed in such a way that we must look for it in libraries, and we can find no literature about it.

"'Imam [Khomeini] said that Saddam [Hussein] must go, and that he would be humiliated in a way that was unprecedented. And what do you see today? A man who, 10 years ago, spoke as proudly as if he would live for eternity is today chained by the feet, and is now being tried in his own country...

"'Imam [Khomeini] said: 'This regime that is occupying Qods [ Jerusalem ] must be eliminated from the pages of history.' This sentence is very wise. The issue of Palestine is not an issue on which we can compromise.

"'Is it possible that an [Islamic] front allows another front [i.e. country] to arise in its [own] heart? This means defeat, and he who accepts the existence of this regime [i.e. Israel ] in fact signs the defeat of the Islamic world.

"'In his battle against the World of Arrogance, our dear Imam [Khomeini] set the regime occupying Qods [ Jerusalem ] as the target of his fight.

"'I do not doubt that the new wave which has begun in our dear Palestine and which today we are also witnessing in the Islamic world is a wave of morality which has spread all over the Islamic world. Very soon, this stain of disgrace [i.e. Israel ] will vanish from the center of the Islamic world – and this is attainable.

"'But we must be wary of Fitna. For more than 50 years, the World of Arrogance has tried to give recognition to the existence of this falsified regime [ Israel ]. With its first steps, and then with further steps, it has tried hard in this direction to stabilize it.

"'Regrettably, 27 or 28 years ago... one of the countries of the first line [i.e. Egypt ] made this failure [of recognizing Israel ] – and we still hope that they will correct it.

"'Lately we have new Fitna underway… With the forced evacuation [of Gaza ] that was imposed by the Palestinian people, they [the Israelis] evacuated only a corner. [ Israel ] declared this as the final victory and, on the pretext of evacuating Gaza and establishing a Palestinian government, tried to put an end to the hopes of the Palestinians.

"'Today, [ Israel ] seeks, satanically and deceitfully, to gain control of the front of war. It is trying to influence the Palestinian groups in Palestine so as to preoccupy them with political issues and jobs – so that they relinquish the Palestinian cause that determines their destiny, and come into conflict with each other.

"'On the pretext of goodwill, they [ Israel ] intended, by evacuating the Gaza strip, to gain recognition of its corrupt regime by some Islamic states. I very much hope, and ask God, that the Palestinian people and the dear Palestinian groups will be wary of this Fitna.

"'The issue of Palestine is by no means over, and will end only when all of Palestine will have a government belonging to the Palestinian people. The refugees must return to their homes, and there must be a government that has come to power by the will of the [Palestinian] people. And, of course those [i.e. the Jews] who came to this country from far away to plunder it have no right to decide anything for the [Palestinian] people.

"'I hope that the Palestinians will maintain their wariness and intelligence, much as they have pursued their battles in the past 10 years. This will be a short period, and if we pass through it successfully, the process of the elimination of the Zionist regime will be smooth and simple.

"'I warn all the leaders of the Islamic world to be wary of Fitna: If someone is under the pressure of hegemonic power [i.e. the West] and understands that something is wrong, or he is naïve, or he is an egotist and his hedonism leads him to recognize the Zionist regime – he should know that he will burn in the fire of the Islamic Ummah [nation]…

"'The people who sit in closed rooms cannot decide on this matter. The Islamic people cannot allow this historical enemy to exist in the heart of the Islamic world.

"'Oh dear people, look at this global arena. By whom are we confronted? We must understand the depth of the disgrace imposed on us by the enemy, until our holy hatred expands continuously and strikes like a wave.'"

[1] Iranian Students News Agency (Iran), October 26, 2005, http://www.isna.ir/Main/NewsView.aspx?ID=News-603386

http://memri.org/bin/latestnews.cgi?ID=SD101305

[OldManMac]

It's all talk, and posturing. The Iranians are smart enough to know they can't possibly take on the U. S. and win. Of course, with Bush in office, we'll now hear all about the Iranians 50 times a day, until enough people believe him. That, combined with God no doubt telling him to invade Iran, will surely bring about another war.

[OldManMac]

What is wrong with these forums lately? You post something, and you get a "page failed to load" message, or something like it, so you repost, and then you get two, or more, posts!

[mojo2]

Originally Posted by KarlG

What is wrong with these forums lately? You post something, and you get a "page failed to load" message, or something like it, so you repost, and then you get two, or more, posts!

Maybe the software is getting sick from the crap we post?

[mojo2]

Originally Posted by KarlG

It's all talk, and posturing. The Iranians are smart enough to know they can't possibly take on the U. S. and win. Of course, with Bush in office, we'll now hear all about the Iranians 50 times a day, until enough people believe him. That, combined with God no doubt telling him to invade Iran, will surely bring about another war.

You can only (and should better) hope this is true. The SIGNS you insist on disregarding suggest otherwise.

Read the first post in this thread and then read the linked info and explore those pages then see what you think.

[Pendergast]

Originally Posted by mojo2

Maybe the software is getting sick from the crap we post?

Quoted for emphasis.

[mojo2]

bump

[tie]

Originally Posted by mojo2

Here's evidence of what I've mentioned before, that the terrorists are cheering on the leftists here in America. They are using the anti-war movement as a tool for their success.

Doesn't it seem more likely that they are using the pro-war movement as a tool for their success? After all, it is this war which has gotten us into all this trouble.

[Pendergast]

Originally Posted by tie

Doesn't it seem more likely that they are using the pro-war movement as a tool for their success? After all, it is this war which has gotten us into all this trouble.

You cannot say that because it goes against mojo2's arguments and he won't acknowledge this except by a lenghty post no even him will read, or by a very contradictive argumentation.

[besson3c]

Originally Posted by Pendergast

You cannot say that because it goes against mojo2's arguments and he won't acknowledge this except by a lenghty post no even him will read, or by a very contradictive argumentation.

Or with a joke.

[besson3c]

Originally Posted by Pendergast

You cannot say that because it goes against mojo2's arguments and he won't acknowledge this except by a lenghty post no even him will read, or by a very contradictive argumentation.

Or with a joke.

[Pendergast]

Originally Posted by besson3c

Or with a joke.

[mojo2]

Originally Posted by Pendergast

You cannot say that because it goes against mojo2's arguments and he won't acknowledge this except by a lenghty post no even him will read, or by a very contradictive argumentation.

What causes your religion to keep pushing to gain dominance over any non-Muslim organization or government in it's way?

Why are you surprised when non-Muslims react out of fear?

When some of you, no one can tell who will and who won't no one can tell when or where, are CERTAIN to try to kill non-Muslims, then who the hell would want you in their country, town or neighborhood???

Who WOULDN'T be frightened?

All the grief that innocent Muslims suffer is brought on by whatever causes SOME Muslims to be so aggressive and murderous.

Address that.

[mojo2]

Originally Posted by besson3c

Or with a joke.

Hi B3c.

[mojo2]

Originally Posted by besson3c

Or with a joke.

Hi B3c.

[black bear theory]

Originally Posted by mojo2

All the grief that innocent Americans suffer is brought on by whatever causes SOME Americans to be so aggressive and murderous.

Address that.

you can change the text as such and it still works. who is responsible for the foriegn policy of the US? very few, and yet it is because of these few, you live in constant fear of the consequences.

so where do we go now?

[mojo2]

Originally Posted by tie

Doesn't it seem more likely that they are using the pro-war movement as a tool for their success? After all, it is this war which has gotten us into all this trouble.

No, tie. It all has to do with the one or two little things that make Muslims feared.

What NO ONE seems willing to address is the fact that there is SOMETHING that makes Muslims a THREAT to non Muslims.

EVERYTHING, EVERYTHING, EVERYTHING that has to do with frictions between Muslims and non-Muslims has to do with whatever it is that cause SOME Muslims to be a threat to their neighbors, to the ruling non-Muslim governments and to infidels like you and I.

You CAN'T tell by looking or by talking to them, which Muslim could be the next 9/11 hijacker type. YOU JUST CAN'T TELL!

And so, the Israelis fear them and respond as they have.

Look at ANY of the wars or riots or whatevers that have transpired over time and instead of Muslim, insert the name of ANY OTHER RELIGION and you have NO WAR, NO RIOTS, NO KILLINGS.

There is SOMETHING about the religion that MUST account for a certain % of their followers becoming so hateful that they have gained a reputation which inspires fear and causes fair minded peoples the world over to enact laws to prevent Muslims from feeling at home and comfortable.

The israeli/Palestinian issue would be settled if the Israelis knew they had nothing to fear from the Muslims.

There would be NO FIGHTING in Iraq if the US knew that the radical violent muslims weren't going to take over there.

[mojo2]

Originally Posted by black bear theory

you can change the text as such and it still works. who is responsible for the foriegn policy of the US? very few, and yet it is because of these few, you live in constant fear of the consequences.

so where do we go now?

NO. Not true at all.

There are NO Americans in any large numbers in France. So, why are they rioting?

Maybe someone should get a list of all the violence that have been between Muslims and non-Muslims that had nothing to do with the USA.

[black bear theory]

Originally Posted by mojo2

Look at ANY of the wars or riots or whatevers that have transpired over time and instead of Muslim, insert the name of ANY OTHER RELIGION and you have NO WAR, NO RIOTS, NO KILLINGS.

are you sure about this?

[edit: it's logically not right either, how can you count a non-riot riot?]

the cia fomented militant islam in afghanistan, through propoganda, distributing korans, and publishing bellicose textbooks. this was in the 1980's.

twenty years later when these kids grow up, what do we have? the taliban. a force that we supported and created for our own selfish needs and it came back to bite us in the ass.

this does not account for all militant muslims, but how many innocent muslims suffered because of those few in power, that the US essentially created.

[black bear theory]

Originally Posted by mojo2

NO. Not true at all.

There are NO Americans in any large numbers in France. So, why are they rioting?

Maybe someone should get a list of all the violence that have been between Muslims and non-Muslims that had nothing to do with the USA.

there were no muslims in LA why were they rioting?

it doesn't make sense. your original point is that muslims (the world over) suffer because a few (the terrorists) do what they do.

if we are talking about france, maybe it's the few that banned headscarves in school that are behind this in some way. fortunately we would never think about banning headscarves here, and why don't muslims riot here? probably fear that they would get one complimentary ticket to gitmo for raising their voice.

[mojo2]

Originally Posted by black bear theory

are you sure about this?

[edit: it's logically not right either, how can you count a non-riot riot?]

the cia fomented militant islam in afghanistan, through propoganda, distributing korans, and publishing bellicose textbooks. this was in the 1980's.

twenty years later when these kids grow up, what do we have? the taliban. a force that we supported and created for our own selfish needs and it came back to bite us in the ass.

this does not account for all militant muslims, but how many innocent muslims suffered because of those few in power, that the US essentially created.

Oh, but if we had the power to create a fighting force from scratch that would have them become so motivated and powerful with such meager support from US taxpayers, we could leave Iraq right now and be SURE that the Iraqi miltary would effectively neutralize al Qaeda.

You know the old expression, 'playing with fire?' It means making use of a dangerous tool to achieve a goal.

(It has other meanings as well, but we're talking about this one, so let's stay focused.)

The US WAS able to rout the Soviets because we did what Saddam did, which was to make use of the mujaheddin as a military asset for secular purposes.

Saddam would have been in the same kind of fight we are in in iraq had he been given a chance to continue his reign.

The 'invisible force' that makes/made the 'muj' and al Qaeda and other jihadist groups a fighting force that non-believer governments seek to sic on their enemies is the same 'invisible force' that makes non-believers afraid of Muslims.

It stems from something about the Muslim religion.

[Doofy]

Originally Posted by black bear theory

if we are talking about france, maybe it's the few that banned headscarves in school that are behind this in some way. fortunately we would never think about banning headscarves here, and why don't muslims riot here? probably fear that they would get one complimentary ticket to gitmo for raising their voice.

Not enough numbers and there's quite a few people with the ability to resist (i.e. big bunch of folks with guns). They're testing the waters here in Europe... ...which incidentally is what OBL was doing with 9/11 (just after a new President) and February 26, 1993 (just after a new President).

[Face Ache]

nevermind.

[black bear theory]

Originally Posted by mojo2

Oh, but if we had the power to create a fighting force from scratch that would have them become so motivated and powerful with such meager support from US taxpayers, we could leave Iraq right now and be SURE that the Iraqi miltary would effectively neutralize al Qaeda.

You know the old expression, 'playing with fire?' It means making use of a dangerous tool to achieve a goal.

(It has other meanings as well, but we're talking about this one, so let's stay focused.)

<huh?>

The 'invisible force' that makes/made the 'muj' and al Qaeda and other jihadist groups a fighting force that non-believer governments seek to sic on their enemies is the same 'invisible force' that makes non-believers afraid of Muslims.

It stems from something about the Muslim religion.

al-qaeda and the taliban were purposefully trained and manipulated to be militant, from the get go. the US handed out anti-soviet pro-islam propoganda, text books with the sole purpose of fomenting hatred (and probably religious hatred at that) towards the soviets.

that militancy was taught. it was cultivated from the first grade up. kids learned to count using bullets and machine guns. my textbooks never had that stuff in it. this stuff was planned - psyops.

it would be just as easy to say that militant christian groups are that way because there's something 'invisible' in that religion. it has everything to do with blind faith and lack of tolerance, and can be said of nearly any religion or ideology.

the US doesn't seek out muslims because of the 'fear' that they instill in their enemies. the US seeks out soldiers willing to fight via proxy that are in the regions wants to sway power. if it happens to be in the ME, it's probably going to be a muslim group, but if it's in SA (where the US has a long record of doing things ala mujahadeen), probably not so likely that that band will be made up of muslims.

[mojo2]

Originally Posted by black bear theory

there were no muslims in LA why were they rioting?

it doesn't make sense. your original point is that muslims (the world over) suffer because a few (the terrorists) do what they do.

if we are talking about france, maybe it's the few that banned headscarves in school that are behind this in some way. fortunately we would never think about banning headscarves here, and why don't muslims riot here? probably fear that they would get one complimentary ticket to gitmo for raising their voice.

Your desperation to try to defend the indefensible is behind this silly post.

[black bear theory]

Originally Posted by mojo2

Originally Posted by mojo2
Look at ANY of the wars or riots or whatevers that have transpired over time and instead of Muslim, insert the name of ANY OTHER RELIGION and you have NO WAR, NO RIOTS, NO KILLINGS

explain the LA riots. i won't say that no muslims were involved, but probably pretty few. according to your statement any riot or war requires the presense of muslims. and that is simply wrong.

the stuff about france? yeah, i don't know. i don't live there, that's why i said 'maybe' and put a question mark? [edit: there should be a question mark in the original.] it's idle speculation.

[mojo2]

Originally Posted by black bear theory

al-qaeda and the taliban were purposefully trained and manipulated to be militant, from the get go. the US handed out anti-soviet pro-islam propoganda, text books with the sole purpose of fomenting hatred (and probably religious hatred at that) towards the soviets.

Sequence of events:

A. Soviets invade Afghanistan.

B. Afghans (primarily Muslim population, then and now) resist the Soviets.

C. US sends assistance and encourages the resistance.

And, yes, that may have been how al qaeda learned to do it in Iraq. Same old, same old.

that militancy was taught. it was cultivated from the first grade up. kids learned to count using bullets and machine guns. my textbooks never had that stuff in it. this stuff was planned - psyops.

The US DID provide instruction on use of weapons and tactics. The rest of the ingredients were already in existence. If you grew up in the US or another western country your education was primarily secular and religious education came as an important part of helping your spiritual education.

But if there ISN"T something about the Muslim religion that prompts SOME Muslims to want to spread out and dominate lands and peoples and to kill infidels, why are there so many radical Muslims out committing jihad? And I'm talking about BEFORE we invaded Iraq. And I'm talking about against nations OTHER than the USA. And I'm talking about their killing other MUSLIMS who weren't Muslim enough!!!

Who killed Egyptian President Anwar Sadat and why? Radical Muslims. because he made PEACE with Israel. WHY did they kill him? Anyone have a guess? It was something about the religion. An invisible force that says 'YOU MUST KILL ANYONE WHO MAKES FRIENDS WITH JEWS. YOU MUST KILL THE JEWS."

Not everyone pays attention to that invisible force but it's there. And it's causing YOU to live under oppression, you are hated, mistrusted, you are discriminated against, you are attacked and yet you can do nothing about the invisible force!

it would be just as easy to say that militant christian groups are that way because there's something 'invisible' in that religion. it has everything to do with blind faith and lack of tolerance, and can be said of nearly any religion or ideology.

No, you are wrong. Christians didn't seek out any fights with Muslims in the recent annals of history.

The reason why I call it an invisible force is because YOU can't seem to see it.

the US doesn't seek out muslims because of the 'fear' that they instill in their enemies.

Gotta be careful with the "them's" and "they's" or else the reader can't tell who you are talking about. Please re-phrase.

the US seeks out soldiers willing to fight via proxy that are in the regions wants to sway power. if it happens to be in the ME, it's probably going to be a muslim group, but if it's in SA (where the US has a long record of doing things ala mujahadeen), probably not so likely that that band will be made up of muslims.

The US has a history of using indigenous populations to create resistance forces, it is true. And when we've been able to make pacts with the government, then we have. S.A. is an example where we have made a pact with the ruling government to get and give products and services. BOTH parties give and get something from the deal.

It is another example of our making an odd bedfellow, but a very necessary one.

You DID mean Saudi Arabia, right?

[mojo2]

Originally Posted by black bear theory

explain the LA riots. i won't say that no muslims were involved, but probably pretty few. according to your statement any riot or war requires the presense of muslims. and that is simply wrong.

I said no such thing. Show us my quote. I never said all riots were caused by Muslims. YOU can't read straight when you get excited. You start imagining things. Projecting.

the stuff about france? yeah, i don't know. i don't live there, that's why i said 'maybe' and put a question mark? [edit: there should be a question mark in the original.] it's idle speculation.

Ok, so who can tell me what happened in Algeria?

According to the CIA Factbook:

Religions:

Sunni Muslim (state religion) 99%, Christian and Jewish 1%

Algeria

Background:

After more than a century of rule by France, Algerians fought through much of the 1950s to achieve independence in 1962. Algeria's primary political party, the National Liberation Front (FLN), has dominated politics ever since. Many Algerians in the subsequent generation were not satisfied, however, and moved to counter the FLN's centrality in Algerian politics.

The surprising first round success of the Islamic Salvation Front (FIS) in the December 1991 balloting spurred the Algerian army to intervene and postpone the second round of elections to prevent what the secular elite feared would be an extremist-led government from assuming power. The army began a crack down on the FIS that spurred FIS supporters to begin attacking government targets.

The government later allowed elections featuring pro-government and moderate religious-based parties, but did not appease the activists who progressively widened their attacks. The fighting escalated into an insurgency, which saw intense fighting between 1992-98 and which resulted in over 100,000 deaths - many attributed to indiscriminate massacres of villagers by extremists.

The government gained the upper hand by the late-1990s and FIS's armed wing, the Islamic Salvation Army, disbanded in January 2000. However, small numbers of armed militants persist in confronting government forces and conducting ambushes and occasional attacks on villages. The army placed Abdelaziz BOUTEFLIKA in the presidency in 1999 in a fraudulent election but claimed neutrality in his 2004 landslide reelection victory.

Longstanding problems continue to face BOUTEFLIKA in his second term, including the ethnic minority Berbers' ongoing autonomy campaign, large-scale unemployment, a shortage of housing, unreliable electrical and water supplies, government inefficiencies and corruption, and the continuing - although significantly degraded - activities of extremist militants. Algeria must also diversify its petroleum-based economy, which has yielded a large cash reserve but which has not been used to redress Algeria's many social and infrastructure problems. Algeria assumed a two-year seat on the UN Security Council in January 2004.

[Uncle Skeleton]

Originally Posted by mojo2

Who killed Egyptian President Anwar Sadat and why? Radical Muslims. because he made PEACE with Israel. WHY did they kill him? Anyone have a guess? It was something about the religion. An invisible force that says 'YOU MUST KILL ANYONE WHO MAKES FRIENDS WITH JEWS. YOU MUST KILL THE JEWS."

That's just speculation on your part. Let me try it too.

The US trains religious extremists to indoctrinate their youth to forcibly expel foreign intruders (at the time, Soviets). They do it. Then what do they do? They keep doing it. Who are the foreign intruders still in their land (at least according to them)? Israel. And now America. What do they do? They fight the foreign intruders. My guess is that as long as we give them someone to fight, they'll fight. I mean, why change your old ways if they still work?

Anyway, don't be so quick to assume innate racism. That would be...what did you call it? "Your desperation to try to defend the indefensible"

[Face Ache]

Originally Posted by mojo2

Who killed Egyptian President Anwar Sadat and why? Radical Muslims. because he made PEACE with Israel. WHY did they kill him? Anyone have a guess? It was something about the religion. An invisible force that says 'YOU MUST KILL ANYONE WHO MAKES FRIENDS WITH JEWS. YOU MUST KILL THE JEWS."

When you say "radical muslims" you mean right-wingers, yeah?

As I pointed out to you yesterday, an Israeli PM got bumped off (by a right-wing McNutJob) for trying to make peace with the Palestinians.

So what does that say about Judaism as a whole?

More to the point, what does it say about right-wing McNutJobs?

[black bear theory]

Originally Posted by mojo2

The US DID provide instruction on use of weapons and tactics. The rest of the ingredients were already in existence.

yes... and propoganda and malicious teaching aids but enough, everyone knows this already.

But if there ISN"T something about the Muslim religion that prompts SOME Muslims to want to spread out and dominate lands and peoples and to kill infidels, why are there so many radical Muslims out committing jihad? And I'm talking about BEFORE we invaded Iraq. And I'm talking about against nations OTHER than the USA. And I'm talking about their killing other MUSLIMS who weren't Muslim enough!!!

i don't deny that some muslims want to kill infidels. i just wonder why you don't see similiar behaviour in other cultures, religions and society's. what is it about the Church of Latter Day Saints that makes them all want to go out and spread the word and convert unbelievers? it's pretty much a doctrine of all religions. i believe it's codified in islam, and i'm not sure but it probably says to do as much in the bible.

Not everyone pays attention to that invisible force but it's there. And it's causing YOU to live under oppression, you are hated, mistrusted, you are discriminated against, you are attacked and yet you can do nothing about the invisible force!

The reason why I call it an invisible force is because YOU can't seem to see it.

who's living under oppression? who's being attacked? not over here. not by a long shot.

you're right i don't see it. and still i sleep well at night.

You DID mean Saudi Arabia, right?

actually, i was talking about regions, so SA meant South America. ME is Middle East. i think it would be a hard task to find a non-muslim indigenous group in saudi arabia, but i can see where there might be confusion.

[black bear theory]

Originally Posted by mojo2

I said no such thing. Show us my quote. I never said all riots were caused by Muslims. YOU can't read straight when you get excited. You start imagining things. Projecting.

this is the third time i've quoted it. maybe you can rephrase it, before i address it again.

Originally Posted by mojo2

Look at ANY of the wars or riots or whatevers that have transpired over time and instead of Muslim, insert the name of ANY OTHER RELIGION and you have NO WAR, NO RIOTS, NO KILLINGS

[mojo2]

Originally Posted by black bear theory

this is the third time i've quoted it. maybe you can rephrase it, before i address it again.

Uh, you may speak english as a second language, so I'll be tactful.

Originally Posted by mojo2
Look at ANY of the wars or riots or whatevers that have transpired over time and instead of Muslim, insert the name of ANY OTHER RELIGION and you have NO WAR, NO RIOTS, NO KILLINGS

That means the word MUSLIM would already have to be associated with any of the riots or wars or killings in question before you could insert the name of a different religion.

So, the Los Angeles riots were not to be considered, for example, because no one has associated Muslims with that riot.

A murder that takes place which has no mention or suggestion of a Muslim connection would not be considered.

However, the following instances of violence had to do with Muslims in some way.

Terrorist Attacks
(within the United States or against Americans abroad)

1979
Nov. 4, Tehran, Iran: Iranian radical students seized the U.S. embassy, taking 66 hostages. 14 were later released. The remaining 52 were freed after 444 days on the day of President Reagan's inauguration.
1982–1991
Lebanon: Thirty US and other Western hostages kidnapped in Lebanon by Hezbollah. Some were killed, some died in captivity, and some were eventually released. Terry Anderson was held for 2,454 days.
1983
April 18, Beirut, Lebanon: U.S. embassy destroyed in suicide car-bomb attack; 63 dead, including 17 Americans. The Islamic Jihad claimed responsibility.
Oct. 23, Beirut, Lebanon: Shiite suicide bombers exploded truck near U.S. military barracks at Beirut airport, killing 241 Marines. Minutes later a second bomb killed 58 French paratroopers in their barracks in West Beirut.
Dec. 12, Kuwait City, Kuwait Shiite truck bombers attacked the U.S. embassy and other targets, killing 5 and injuring 80.
1984
Sept. 20, east Beirut, Lebanon: truck bomb exploded outside the U.S. embassy annex, killing 24, including 2 U.S. military.
Dec. 3, Beirut, Lebanon: Kuwait Airways Flight 221, from Kuwait to Pakistan, hijacked and diverted to Tehran. 2 Americans killed.
1985
April 12, Madrid, Spain: Bombing at restaurant frequented by U.S. soldiers, killed 18 Spaniards and injured 82.
June 14, Beirut, Lebanon: TWA Flight 847 en route from Athens to Rome hijacked to Beirut by Hezbollah terrorists and held for 17 days. A U.S. Navy diver executed.
Oct. 7, Mediterranean Sea: gunmen attack Italian cruise ship, Achille Lauro. One U.S. tourist killed. Hijacking linked to Libya.
Dec. 18, Rome, Italy, and Vienna, Austria: airports in Rome and Vienna were bombed, killing 20 people, 5 of whom were Americans. Bombing linked to Libya.
1986
April 2, Athens, Greece:A bomb exploded aboard TWA flight 840 en route from Rome to Athens, killing 4 Americans and injuring 9.
April 5, West Berlin, Germany: Libyans bombed a disco frequented by U.S. servicemen, killing 2 and injuring hundreds.
1988
Dec. 21, Lockerbie, Scotland: N.Y.-bound Pan-Am Boeing 747 exploded in flight from a terrorist bomb and crashed into Scottish village, killing all 259 aboard and 11 on the ground. Passengers included 35 Syracuse University students and many U.S. military personnel. Libya formally admitted responsibility 15 years later (Aug. 2003) and offered $2.7 billion compensation to victims' families.
1993
Feb. 26, New York City: bomb exploded in basement garage of World Trade Center, killing 6 and injuring at least 1,040 others. In 1995, militant Islamist Sheik Omar Abdel Rahman and 9 others were convicted of conspiracy charges, and in 1998, Ramzi Yousef, believed to have been the mastermind, was convicted of the bombing. Al-Qaeda involvement is suspected.
1995
April 19, Oklahoma City: car bomb exploded outside federal office building, collapsing wall and floors. 168 people were killed, including 19 children and 1 person who died in rescue effort. Over 220 buildings sustained damage. Timothy McVeigh and Terry Nichols later convicted in the antigovernment plot to avenge the Branch Davidian standoff in Waco, Tex., exactly 2 years earlier. (See Miscellaneous Disasters.)
Nov. 13, Riyadh, Saudi Arabia: car bomb exploded at U.S. military headquarters, killing 5 U.S. military servicemen.
1996
June 25, Dhahran, Saudi Arabia: truck bomb exploded outside Khobar Towers military complex, killing 19 American servicemen and injuring hundreds of others. 13 Saudis and a Lebanese, all alleged members of Islamic militant group Hezbollah, were indicted on charges relating to the attack in June 2001.
1998
Aug. 7, Nairobi, Kenya, and Dar es Salaam, Tanzania: truck bombs exploded almost simultaneously near 2 U.S. embassies, killing 224 (213 in Kenya and 11 in Tanzania) and injuring about 4,500. 4 men connected with al-Qaeda 2 of whom had received training at al-Qaeda camps inside Afghanistan, were convicted of the killings in May 2001 and later sentenced to life in prison. A federal grand jury had indicted 22 men in connection with the attacks, including Saudi dissident Osama bin Laden, who remained at large.
2000
Oct. 12, Aden, Yemen: U.S. Navy destroyer USS Cole heavily damaged when a small boat loaded with explosives blew up alongside it. 17 sailors killed. Linked to Osama bin Laden, or members of al-Qaeda terrorist network.
2001
Sept. 11, New York City, Arlington, Va., and Shanksville, Pa.: hijackers crashed 2 commercial jets into twin towers of World Trade Center; 2 more hijacked jets were crashed into the Pentagon and a field in rural Pa. Total dead and missing numbered 2,9921: 2,749 in New York City, 184 at the Pentagon, 40 in Pa., and 19 hijackers. Islamic al-Qaeda terrorist group blamed. (See September 11, 2001: Timeline of Terrorism.)
2002
June 14, Karachi, Pakistan: bomb exploded outside American consulate in Karachi, Pakistan, killing 12. Linked to al-Qaeda.
2003
May 12, Riyadh, Saudi Arabia: suicide bombers killed 34, including 8 Americans, at housing compounds for Westerners. Al-Qaeda suspected.
2004
May 29–31, Riyadh, Saudi Arabia: terrorists attack the offices of a Saudi oil company in Khobar, Saudi Arabia, take foreign oil workers hostage in a nearby residential compound, leaving 22 people dead including one American.
June 11–19, Riyadh, Saudi Arabia: terrorists kidnap and execute Paul Johnson Jr., an American, in Riyadh, Saudi Arabia. 2 other Americans and BBC cameraman killed by gun attacks.
Dec. 6, Jeddah, Saudi Arabia: terrorists storm the U.S. consulate killing 5 consulate employees. 4 terrorists were killed by Saudi security.

The text that you have entered is too long (60836 characters). Please shorten it to 20000 characters long.

If any of you really want me to and if the mods/admin give an ok I can list ALL the muslim related terrorist attacks since 1969 and not just on Americans or Israelis/Jews.

Then, you can take out the word MUSLIM or ISLAMIC and use the name of ANY other religion and there would be no violence.

Go ahead, prove me wrong.

[Uncle Skeleton]

Originally Posted by mojo2

Dec. 6, Jeddah, Saudi Arabia: terrorists storm the U.S. consulate killing 5 consulate employees. 4 terrorists were killed by Saudi security.

Then, you can take out the word MUSLIM or ISLAMIC and use the name of ANY other religion and there would be no violence.

Just taking the first one in sight, there is no mention of "muslim" or "islamic" in it. Many of them don't. I call shenanigans.

[mojo2]

Originally Posted by Face Ache

When you say "radical muslims" you mean right-wingers, yeah?

As I pointed out to you yesterday, an Israeli PM got bumped off (by a right-wing McNutJob) for trying to make peace with the Palestinians.

So what does that say about Judaism as a whole?

More to the point, what does it say about right-wing McNutJobs?

WRONG.

Again.

Every time Israel works out some cease fire or cessation of violence one of your invisible twins attack. Then THAT is what makes it more difficult for you. THAT is what makes otherwise peace loving people (those you call nut jobs) lose their patience with leaders who are trying to make peace with a group that has repeatedly shown they can't be trusted.

How long do you expect the 'prey' to ignore the repeated attacks?

The post above that shows Muslim attacks on Americans or American interests was the time when you should have been protesting the stupidity of messin with the USA. But now, after looking at ALLLLLLLLLLLL the attacks, and you or ANYONE has the nerve to say THEY are getting a raw deal?

HAWWWWW!!!!

Time is up. You and your crew have even continued to argue in support of the violence against America and Americans this whole time since I posted the Pushing Twin post which gave you an out a way to escape the conclusion that YOU were in favor of all the violence committed by the radicals.

But you just keep on with the same usual tactics and the time to deny has passed. I think you are a pathetic louse.

You do not DESERVE the right to be considered in decent discussion.

You support terrorism and lie and use Taqiyya like 007 uses a gun. His license to kill is not as damaging as your license to lie.

Taqiyya
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia.
In Shi'a Islamic tradition, Taqiyya (التقية) is the dissimulation of one’s religious beliefs when one fears for one's life, the lives of one's family members, or for the preservation of the faith. It is most often used in times of persecution or danger. Some Sunnis assert that Taqiyya is an act of hypocrisy that serves to conceal the truth. According to them, Taqiyya constitutes a lack of faith and trust in God because the person who conceals his beliefs to spare himself from danger is fearful of humans, when he should be fearful of God only.

Face Ache, you make me sick.

What kind of thrills do you get when you go to the cancer ward and light up a cigarette? Bet you and the g/f really get your rocks off at that, huh? Or do you ONLY go pick on the MENTALLY ILL?

Any one of them is better off than you, sick boy. They have some semblance of decency and when they look at themselves in the mirror they won't be sickened by the sight. But then again, someone like you who does something like that, then comes here and BRAGS about it and laughs MUST be really sick. But not in a funny way. More like 'throw-a-bag-of-cats-in-a-river" sick.

NO WONDER you support the Muslim radical terrorists. They are the only ones around doing the kind of things that turn you on, right?

And look at all your posts and tell me how many OTHER posters here have soooo many posts dealing with mental illness?

I really think your presence here is just one big cry for help.

Well here's the only help you'll get from me...

"000"

Call this number and tell them you need help.

My last kindness to you. You cheer and root for other's pain and suffering and try to support those who inflict it.

Maybe you should go out and look for babies with candy you can snatch.

[mojo2]

Originally Posted by Face Ache

When you say "radical muslims" you mean right-wingers, yeah?

As I pointed out to you yesterday, an Israeli PM got bumped off (by a right-wing McNutJob) for trying to make peace with the Palestinians.

So what does that say about Judaism as a whole?

More to the point, what does it say about right-wing McNutJobs?

You are a waste of space face ache.

[Face Ache]

Originally Posted by mojo2

WRONG.

Again.

Every time Israel works out some cease fire or cessation of violence one of your invisible twins attack. Then THAT is what makes it more difficult for you. THAT is what makes otherwise peace loving people (those you call nut jobs) lose their patience with leaders who are trying to make peace with a group that has repeatedly shown they can't be trusted.

How long do you expect the 'prey' to ignore the repeated attacks?

The post above that shows Muslim attacks on Americans or American interests was the time when you should have been protesting the stupidity of messin with the USA. But now, after looking at ALLLLLLLLLLLL the attacks, and you or ANYONE has the nerve to say THEY are getting a raw deal?

HAWWWWW!!!!

Time is up. You and your crew have even continued to argue in support of the violence against America and Americans this whole time since I posted the Pushing Twin post which gave you an out a way to escape the conclusion that YOU were in favor of all the violence committed by the radicals.

But you just keep on with the same usual tactics and the time to deny has passed. I think you are a pathetic louse.

You do not DESERVE the right to be considered in decent discussion.

You support terrorism and lie and use Taqiyya like 007 uses a gun. His license to kill is not as damaging as your license to lie.



Face Ache, you make me sick.

What kind of thrills do you get when you go to the cancer ward and light up a cigarette? Bet you and the g/f really get your rocks off at that, huh? Or do you ONLY go pick on the MENTALLY ILL?

Any one of them is better off than you, sick boy. They have some semblance of decency and when they look at themselves in the mirror they won't be sickened by the sight. But then again, someone like you who does something like that, then comes here and BRAGS about it and laughs MUST be really sick. But not in a funny way. More like 'throw-a-bag-of-cats-in-a-river" sick.

NO WONDER you support the Muslim radical terrorists. They are the only ones around doing the kind of things that turn you on, right?

And look at all your posts and tell me how many OTHER posters here have soooo many posts dealing with mental illness?

I really think your presence here is just one big cry for help.

Well here's the only help you'll get from me...

"000"

Call this number and tell them you need help.

My last kindness to you. You cheer and root for other's pain and suffering and try to support those who inflict it.

Maybe you should go out and look for babies with candy you can snatch.

Oops. I upset the loony.

[Face Ache]

Oh. I realise I've touched a nerve. You actually are a nutter.

[mojo2]

Originally Posted by Face Ache

Oh. I realise I've touched a nerve. You actually are a nutter.

And YOU actually are REPORTED for abuse.