[smacintush]

I agree with Dick Morris when he said this will be Bush's second term legacy. A year from now his approval ratings will be way up and the Dems will be pissed.

Thoughts?

P.S. Anyone else watch it on ABC? Is it just me or did it seems like the interviews in the parking lot by the Astrodome seem like a fishing expedition for anti Bush comments? He must have asked 3 or 4 times of they believed what he said.

[SpaceMonkey]

I was very distracted throughout the speech by the way that his head and eyes were focused just a little bit off to the side. He never took his eyes off the teleprompter AT ALL. for showmanship.

[hyteckit]

Speech? What Speech? Oh, I didn't care to watch.

[SimeyTheLimey]

I missed the speech (prior engagement) but you have to see this (in Realmedia) (another link here in windows media). It's hilarious!

[Maflynn]

Originally Posted by smacintush

I agree with Dick Morris when he said this will be Bush's second term legacy. A year from now his approval ratings will be way up and the Dems will be pissed.

Thoughts?

P.S. Anyone else watch it on ABC? Is it just me or did it seems like the interviews in the parking lot by the Astrodome seem like a fishing expedition for anti Bush comments? He must have asked 3 or 4 times of they believed what he said.

I forgot about the speach so I missed it.

His approval ratings will be way up there

I'm having a hard to believing that. Lets look at his accomplishments.

Domestic policy.
Since taking office gas prices have risen higher then inflation
the Economy at best has sputtered along at worst been in a recession.
Has not addressed the outflow of manufactoring (this has been going on for decades) and white collar jobs.

Foreign policy
started two wars at the same time, one of which was dubious at best and now we are in a quagmire vietnam like war.
He singled handedly pi$$ed off europe by his singled minded desire to over throw a soverign nation that had no evidence of WMDs or terrorism.


Yeah I can see his approval rating going up as I spend 50 dollars to fill my gas tank, and I know people who have to choose between heating their house and getting food.

Mike

[spauldingg]

20 days late , 200 Billion dollars short.

[spacefreak]

Originally Posted by SimeyTheLimey

I missed the speech (prior engagement) but you have to see this (in Realmedia) (another link here in windows media). It's hilarious!

Wow... the interviewer was totally setting her up for a Bush-bash... practically handing it to her. She knows what's up.

[spacefreak]

Originally Posted by Maflynn

I'm having a hard to believing that. Lets look at his accomplishments.

Domestic policy.
Since taking office gas prices have risen higher then inflation
the Economy at best has sputtered along at worst been in a recession.
Has not addressed the outflow of manufactoring (this has been going on for decades) and white collar jobs.

Basic supply and demand priciples are responsible for our higher gas prices. Of course, we could approve some new drilling and refinery construction, but the Dems will have none of that.

Furthermore, pretty much every economic indicator is at or near all-time highs. It doesn't get much better than this.

Foreign policy
started two wars at the same time, one of which was dubious at best and now we are in a quagmire vietnam like war.
He singled handedly pi$$ed off europe by his singled minded desire to over throw a soverign nation that had no evidence of WMDs or terrorism.

You sound real intelligent. And you think your ilk are well suited for power? What a joke.

Yeah I can see his approval rating going up as I spend 50 dollars to fill my gas tank, and I know people who have to choose between heating their house and getting food.

Tell your people that it's summertime. If they are heating their houses, there's probably some sort of mental and/or physical problems there that they may want to get checked out by a professional.

[pman68]

[johnnyJihad]

Originally Posted by SimeyTheLimey

I missed the speech (prior engagement) but you have to see this (in Realmedia) (another link here in windows media). It's hilarious!

Tell her her check is in the mail.

[johnnyJihad]

^ Lol

[Maflynn]

Originally Posted by spacefreak

Basic supply and demand priciples are responsible for our higher gas prices. Of course, we could approve some new drilling and refinery construction, but the Dems will have none of that.

Furthermore, pretty much every economic indicator is at or near all-time highs. It doesn't get much better than this.

You sound real intelligent. And you think your ilk are well suited for power? What a joke.


Tell your people that it's summertime. If they are heating their houses, there's probably some sort of mental and/or physical problems there that they may want to get checked out by a professional.

Well you don't know my ilk so you cannot make judgements as to their worthiness. The sad thing is my ilk is republicans. I'm a registered republican and I voted for Bush, well I did for the first term not the second, once he decided to over throw a sovereign nation that was it for me.

Perhaps I was unclear as to the heating issue. The people I know are incredably worried in how they are going to afford both when the time comes. natural gas, and heating oil are going up so much that some people I know will have to choose.

Economy: unemployment, high at least higer then when Clinton was in office, interest rates climbing, durable goods down, consumer sentiments plummet in Sept, factory orders fall in August.. Major US corporations are hurting, Ford GM, Airlines in bankruptcy . Yup things have never been better I love seeing all of the indicators at all time high, perhaps you were talking about the unemployement rate or inflation

As for my first point and your response about supply and demand, well that certainly is a factor but I just look at the fact we elected a president from texas and now the we are paying even more now then ever before. coincidence???

[Wiskedjak]

Originally Posted by spacefreak

Basic supply and demand priciples are responsible for our higher gas prices. Of course, we could approve some new drilling and refinery construction, but the Dems will have none of that.

And why is demand for oil exceeding supply? Perhaps because of a war in the world's major oil producing region?

[Macrobat]

No, because a majo hurricane just hit the area where all the friggin refineries are. Get out much?

[zerostar]

Originally Posted by Wiskedjak

And why is demand for oil exceeding supply? Perhaps because of a war in the world's major oil producing region?

No, because thats the way the oil companies want it.
http://www.consumerwatchdog.org/energy/pr/?postId=5110

No one is stopping anyone from building refineries (besides oil companies), that is pure BS, they can build what they like they just need to be up to EPA standards.

[zerostar]

Originally Posted by Macrobat

No, because a majo hurricane just hit the area where all the friggin refineries are. Get out much?

Prices were higher before the hurricane even hit. Buy gas much?

There was a doubling of the average price of gasoline from $1.36 per gallon on January 03, 2000 to $2.72 on August 15, 2005. Katrina hit on August 28th. Try again?

[Macrobat]

Prices are low in the United States compared to virtually every other country on the planet.

No need to try again, Iraq was NOT supplying oil to the United States in the first place. OPEC is simply flexing their economic muscle EXACTLY the way they did in the early 70's. Was that one Carter's fault, as well?

You must also remember that $1.05 of that increase in price was the beloved gas tax passed by the previous (Democrat-controlled) Congress. Subtract that and see what the price is, then try and blame it on Bush, yet again.

Please.

[zerostar]

double post

[zerostar]

Originally Posted by Macrobat

Prices are low in the United States compared to virtually every other country on the planet.

Because virtually every other country is paying HUGE taxes sometimes several times on the same gas.

No need to try again, Iraq was NOT supplying oil to the United States in the first place. OPEC is simply flexing their economic muscle EXACTLY the way they did in the early 70's. Was that one Carter's fault, as well?

No one said IRAQ, certainly not me, just knee-jerk or what?

You must also remember that $1.05 of that increase in price was the beloved gas tax passed by the previous (Democrat-controlled) Congress. Subtract that and see what the price is, then try and blame it on Bush, yet again.

AFAIK the Federal Gas Tax is 18.4 cpg, and here in Florida we pay 14.5 cpg in state taxes. that is a max of around 33¢ in taxes per gallon. Have a link for this $1.05?

And lastly, I NEVER blamed anything on Bush, never even mentioned him.

[Spliffdaddy]

The theory is that higher gas prices will reduce our demand for gasoline. You'd think that would make the liberals happy. Yet all they do is point fingers at Bush - blaming him for high gas prices.

As if he has some sort of magical control over the market price of any commodity.

This is the best thing that could happen in America - if the goal is to reduce our dependence on foreign oil.

Let the foreigners fight with OPEC.

[zerostar]

Originally Posted by Spliffdaddy

The theory is that higher gas prices will reduce our demand for gasoline. You'd think that would make the liberals happy. Yet all they do is point fingers at Bush - blaming him for high gas prices.

I am not blaming Bush, at all, but you probably didn't mean me because I don't classify myself as a liberal. I am happy if we reduce our dependance on oil though.

Originally Posted by Spliffdaddy

This is the best thing that could happen in America - if the goal is to reduce our dependence on foreign oil.

The only problem is that it raises the cost of EVERYTHING and that can hurt the US economy big time. People not driving Hummer H2's all day is one thing, not being able to afford your gas bill is another.

As I have said, tax the public on gasoline, heck add $3-4 to it, but keep industry and natural gas at an acceptable level.

[Dakar]

I have to say I'm incredibly happy I moved this last year, to a new place where heat is included in the rent. I'd hate to be paying for heating oil in the leaky old house i used to live in.

[BRussell]

Bush gave a speech? Was anyone actually interested enough to watch? Who wants to watch him implement Rove's political resurrection plan, especially when it involves spending x hundred billion dollars that they'll only "pay for" with more tax cuts for the Paris Hiltons of the world. Blech. Sure, his 30% base will worship everything he does no matter what, but the rest of us have tuned him out.

[Spliffdaddy]

Bush placed blame squarely on the shoulders of Louisiana's government. Which is only proper, since recent polls show twice as many folks blame them than blame Bush.

[subego]

Originally Posted by Wiskedjak

And why is demand for oil exceeding supply? Perhaps because of a war in the world's major oil producing region?

Here's the lowdown I got on the causes of the high gas prices:

Iraq not producing like it would if it's infrastructure was intact
What amounts to a "danger tax" due to instability in the Middle East
OPEC (the person I was talking with called Saudi Arabia "perhaps the worst ally one could imagine")
Katrina
China

Price-gouging ranked a distant (though still existant) last.

China was a bit of a surprise. Apparently demand for gas in China is way up due to a big push on the industrialization front.

My source runs a hugely successful commodities trading company (of which oil futures are a big part), so I figure he knows such things.

[subego]

DP.

Sorry

[smacintush]

Great, so this has turned into a "Bush is to blame for high gas prices" thread…

[smacintush]

Originally Posted by zerostar

As I have said, tax the public on gasoline, heck add $3-4 to it, but keep industry and natural gas at an acceptable level.

And putting a such a burden on the very people who make the economy work will help how?

Such a tax would mean between 40 and 60 dollars a week for me, and THAT would put a damper on spending in MY house. I'm right smack in the middle of middle class.

[Rolling Bones]

Originally Posted by smacintush

Great, so this has turned into a "Bush is to blame for high gas prices" thread…

Well it was never about his speech. No one watched it.

[tie]

Originally Posted by Spliffdaddy

The theory is that higher gas prices will reduce our demand for gasoline. You'd think that would make the liberals happy. Yet all they do is point fingers at Bush - blaming him for high gas prices.

As if he has some sort of magical control over the market price of any commodity.

This is the best thing that could happen in America - if the goal is to reduce our dependence on foreign oil.

Let the foreigners fight with OPEC.

Amazing that the liberal's solution to reduce our dependence on foreign oil from terrorist-sponsoring states is to fund alternative energy sources and improved conservation (e.g. hybrid technology today, not pie-in-the-sky, fifty-years-from-now hydrogen). While the conservative's solution is to double gas prices.

Are you really satisfied with that policy?

Bush placed blame squarely on the shoulders of Louisiana's government. Which is only proper, since recent polls show twice as many folks blame them than blame Bush.

Isn't it great (and proper) that Bush has his finger on the pulse of the nation? Bush follows Rove who follows the polls (in between passing out our national secrets). And the horse show judge follows the natural disasters.

[smacintush]

Originally Posted by Maflynn

As for my first point and your response about supply and demand, well that certainly is a factor but I just look at the fact we elected a president from texas and now the we are paying even more now then ever before. coincidence???

I guess you missed it when the cost of crude tripled under Clinton…and the new EPA regulations under Clinton that added 25 cents per gallon…and gas prices were up 20% in the last 3 1/2 months of his presidency and were projected to keep going up…

Damn that George W. Bush!!!!!!!!

[Maflynn]

The thread did kind of spiral into the bush/gas issue.

To get it back on topic, I'll say this.
I am a middle of the road person who's a registered republican and I feel this problem is going to haunt him for quiet a while.

Getting us into the war and having it get bogged down just about guaranteed history not looking kindly on his presidency so imho his approval rating will never climb too high. The sands of irag have been stained red by our soldiers for what, for more iraqis to strap bombs on themselve to kill more americans? That may sound harsh but that's what's happennig right now.

With that said he could have used a quick and decisive move when the dikes broke but the perception of him being on vacation while houses flooded definitely tainted people's view towards him. There definitely was a power vacuum one of which he should have stepped in much quicker then he did.

[Y3a]

I guess we should have started drilling 10 years ago, during Clintons Admin, so we wouldn't be dependent on OPEC oil now...

[smacintush]

Originally Posted by tie

Amazing that the liberal's solution to reduce our dependence on foreign oil from terrorist-sponsoring states is to fund alternative energy sources and improved conservation (e.g. hybrid technology today, not pie-in-the-sky, fifty-years-from-now hydrogen). While the conservative's solution is to double gas prices.

Well, Clinton's solution to rising energy prices was to do nothing, that's the only liberal action actually taken.

Last I checked hybrid technology was being lead by the likes of Toyota and Honda. These guys are liberal funded? Hmmmmm…

Liberals TALK conservation, while they ride around in their limos and fly in their private jets.

[pman68]

Originally Posted by smacintush

And putting a such a burden on the very people who make the economy work will help how?

Such a tax would mean between 40 and 60 dollars a week for me, and THAT would put a damper on spending in MY house. I'm right smack in the middle of middle class.

Being smack in the middle of the middle class, surely you could use George W's tax cuts [you received] to pay for higher prices.

[smacintush]

Originally Posted by Y3a

I guess we should have started drilling 10 years ago, during Clintons Admin, so we wouldn't be dependent on OPEC oil now...

Sure we wouldn't be dependent on foreign oil, but the price of the oil would still be dictated by the global oil market (unless you are suggesting we completely cut-off oil trading to outside the US and implementing price controls) so the effect on gas prices would be minimal unless we drilled SO MUCH that the global prices went down as well.

[zerostar]

Originally Posted by smacintush

And putting a such a burden on the very people who make the economy work will help how?

It would encourage people to buy and demand more fuel efficient cars and ensure the prices of hybrids and such would come down to reasonable levels, the tax incentives are not enough if no one cares about saving a few bucks a week and all the hybrids or alt. fuel cars are doofy looking.

Such a tax would mean between 40 and 60 dollars a week for me, and THAT would put a damper on spending in MY house. I'm right smack in the middle of middle class.

A strict cap for industry might ensure that inflation stay low on products that you purchase, I understand that noone in the US wants to take the bus or carpool but we will be faced with some problems in the future.

We all have been spoiled with cheap gas prices for many years.

[Wiskedjak]

Originally Posted by subego

Here's the lowdown I got on the causes of the high gas prices:

Iraq not producing like it would if it's infrastructure was intact
What amounts to a "danger tax" due to instability in the Middle East
OPEC (the person I was talking with called Saudi Arabia "perhaps the worst ally one could imagine")
Katrina
China

Price-gouging ranked a distant (though still existant) last.

China was a bit of a surprise. Apparently demand for gas in China is way up due to a big push on the industrialization front.

My source runs a hugely successful commodities trading company (of which oil futures are a big part), so I figure he knows such things.

Yup. That sounds about right to me

[tie]

Originally Posted by smacintush

Sure we wouldn't be dependent on foreign oil, but the price of the oil would still be dictated by the global oil market (unless you are suggesting we completely cut-off oil trading to outside the US and implementing price controls) so the effect on gas prices would be minimal unless we drilled SO MUCH that the global prices went down as well.

Of course you're right, but I think Y3a was joking. He was teasing you for your typical conservative "The buck stops at Clinton's desk" post.

[spacefreak]

Originally Posted by Maflynn

The thread did kind of spiral into the bush/gas issue.

To get it back on topic, I'll say this.
I am a middle of the road person who's a registered republican and I feel this problem is going to haunt him for quiet a while.

Only on the left, which we've now seen will happen regardless of anything positive he does.

Getting us into the war and having it get bogged down just about guaranteed history not looking kindly on his presidency so imho his approval rating will never climb too high. The sands of irag have been stained red by our soldiers for what, for more iraqis to strap bombs on themselve to kill more americans? That may sound harsh but that's what's happennig right now.

At least that's how the press is portraying it. Believe me, we are killing a lot more of the enemy than they are of us. Iraqi civilians perhaps are taking the biggest pounding, but they are fighting back. WIth our resources and their will to fight, it's only a matter of time. The biggest cog will be once their economy gets on sound footing, which it will. Furthermore, an overwhelming majority of the deaths are coming in a relatively small area of Iraq... sorta like Los Angeles county versus the entire state of California. Keep your head up. The forces we and the Iraqis are fighting are true skumbags.

With that said he could have used a quick and decisive move when the dikes broke but the perception of him being on vacation while houses flooded definitely tainted people's view towards him. There definitely was a power vacuum one of which he should have stepped in much quicker then he did.

Recovery operations were in full gear in response to the devastated areas. The levees breaking a day later threw the operations on all levels of government into a crazed mess. By most accounts, the total delay amounts to about 24 hours. Not a great performance, but pretty darn good. I doubt any other nation could have handled that initial phase better than we did. They'll all say they can, however. But just take a look at Europe a few years ago when they had that heat wave. 40,000 people died (15,000 in France alone). Meanwhile, the Katrina death toll is at 816 (579 in Louisiana).

[goMac]

Originally Posted by pman68

Bush was just having a little bit of lag.

[Beststash]

In pledging to rebuild an even better New Orleans on Thursday night, President Bush confused what is admirable in an individual with what is responsible for the leader of a national government.

[spauldingg]

Once, again, nicely stated.

[spacefreak]

We're going to rebuild this city and region like a champ. This is what we are capable of, and it's what we are going to do. Participate constructively. Give something. We can do it. Let's not only make our mark, let's do it with style. And fast, because we can, must, and will.

[olePigeon]

Originally Posted by Macrobat

No, because a majo hurricane just hit the area where all the friggin refineries are. Get out much?

The refineries were closed for several weeks before the hurricane was even a fart off the coast.

[UNTeMac]

Originally Posted by smacintush

Well, Clinton's solution to rising energy prices was to do nothing, that's the only liberal action actually taken.

Last I checked hybrid technology was being lead by the likes of Toyota and Honda. These guys are liberal funded? Hmmmmm…

Liberals TALK conservation, while they ride around in their limos and fly in their private jets.

That's just ignorant. Can you direct me to my private jet and limousine please? Maybe you think the other 50 million or so liberals in this country own jets too?

Energy prices have risen far more during this administration than during Clinton's.