[spauldingg]

If any of you republican, conservative neocons can justify this I'll tear up my ACLU card and cook it in an omelette with a dash of shredded "Fahrenheit 9/11" DVD, and chunks of "Kerry for Prez" pins.

Sept. 26, 2005
6:44 p.m.
(CBS) — CBS News correspondent Gloria Borger reports that Michael Brown, who recently resigned as the head of the FEMA, has been rehired by the agency as a consultant to evaluate it's response following Hurricane Katrina.

[kmkkid]

Originally Posted by spauldingg

If any of you republican, conservative neocons can justify this I'll tear up my ACLU card and cook it in an omelette with a dash of shredded "Fahrenheit 9/11" DVD, and chunks of "Kerry for Prez" pins.

Sept. 26, 2005
6:44 p.m.
(CBS) — CBS News correspondent Gloria Borger reports that Michael Brown, who recently resigned as the head of the FEMA, has been rehired by the agency as a consultant to evaluate it's response following Hurricane Katrina.

Hypocrites.

[zerostar]

Originally Posted by kmkkid

Hypocrites.

I hear Nixon is heading the watergate investigation. doh.

[spauldingg]

In Hell...

[Pendergast]

It's called "recycling".

[Doofy]

Originally Posted by spauldingg

If any of you republican, conservative neocons can justify this I'll tear up my ACLU card and cook it in an omelette with a dash of shredded "Fahrenheit 9/11" DVD, and chunks of "Kerry for Prez" pins.

Sept. 26, 2005
6:44 p.m.
(CBS) — CBS News correspondent Gloria Borger reports that Michael Brown, who recently resigned as the head of the FEMA, has been rehired by the agency as a consultant to evaluate it's response following Hurricane Katrina.

Resigned (probably to take the heat out of the initial Dem finger pointing).
Changed his mind.
Rejoined (probably when the truth came to light that it was state and local governments at fault).

It was Brown's decision. He resigned, he wasn't sacked.

Have fun at dinner.

[spauldingg]

That's hardly a justification. It's fantasy.

[spauldingg]

He friggen lied on his resume, for chrisake.

this is what it is:

[Cody Dawg]

Resigned (probably to take the heat out of the initial Dem finger pointing).
Changed his mind.
Rejoined (probably when the truth came to light that it was state and local governments at fault).

It was Brown's decision. He resigned, he wasn't sacked.

Have fun at dinner.

Yes, I think he simply wants to learn more, that's all. He resigned from a position that was over his head and now he's back in a lesser position to learn.

Actually, if you think about it, that's commendable.

[analogika]

Originally Posted by spauldingg

If any of you republican, conservative neocons can justify this I'll tear up my ACLU card and cook it in an omelette with a dash of shredded "Fahrenheit 9/11" DVD, and chunks of "Kerry for Prez" pins.

Sept. 26, 2005
6:44 p.m.
(CBS) — CBS News correspondent Gloria Borger reports that Michael Brown, who recently resigned as the head of the FEMA, has been rehired by the agency as a consultant to evaluate it's response following Hurricane Katrina.

Amazing!

A guy who got hired as head of federal disaster management with absolutely no prior experience whatsoever, on grounds that he was the president's good buddy's college room-mate, and who was fired from his former job for gross mismanagement, and now got shafted for what can only be called gross and unsurprising incompetence, is now in charge of his own investigation.

That is absolutely beautiful in its tautological, perverse logic.

Incredible.

[mojo2]

Originally Posted by spauldingg

That's hardly a justification. It's fantasy.

Let's bring this down to a level that everyone can understand, shall we?

Let's suppose a High School student is able to falsify his records so he's able to gain admission into a good college.

He does well enough for a year until the first semester of his Sophomore year when there is a natural disaster in his town which destroys all the High School & College records and the only way to re-create the necessary documentation for the students is to re-administer the High School tests in the same week of his semester final exams.

He doesn't pass the exams.

A bit of investigation shows he falsified his records and is forced to withdraw from school.

However, due to the time he did spend there as a good student he gained valuable insights and so was hired by the school as a Dorm monitor.

If that doesn't work fer ya, let me know. I got more.

And as Doofy said, have fun at dinner!

[zerostar]

Can we tweak this a little? How about:

Let's suppose a College student is able to falsify his records so he's able to gain a position as professor into a good college.

He does well enough for a year until the first semester of his next year when it is realized he has done very little to teach the students what they need to know. These students are now grossly undereducated in a critical field they will need for the next year

A bit of investigation shows he falsified his records and is forced to resign from the school.

However, due to the time he did spend there as a "good enough" professor he gained valuable insights and so was hired by the school to investigate what went wrong in these students educations.

I think its more like that... just far ****in worse.

[Dork.]

Originally Posted by mojo2

Let's bring this down to a level that everyone can understand, shall we?

Sure. He got a job with a Federal government by lying on his resume. I think if I were to do that, I'd probably be facing some time in Federal Prison. But, I'm no FOB (Friend of Bush), I guess that's the difference.

[zerostar]

This is another example of welfare for stupid white guys, and they complain about the welfare for the poor in this country that is probably a fraction these scum-bags on both sides get handed.

[spauldingg]

Mojo, either you know that is a ridiculous, convoluted, non-analogy and you are just joking or you are off the deep end.

[Timo]

What's amazing about cronyism in the Bush White House is not that it exists, but that they're so out in the open about it.

BTW they get away with it because most of the population doesn't care. THAT'S the real mystery to me.

[mojo2]

Originally Posted by zerostar

Can we tweak this a little? How about:

Let's suppose a College student is able to falsify his records so he's able to gain a position as professor into a good college.

He does well enough for a year until the first semester of his next year when it is realized he has done very little to teach the students what they need to know. These students are now grossly undereducated in a critical field they will need for the next year

A bit of investigation shows he falsified his records and is forced to resign from the school.

However, due to the time he did spend there as a "good enough" professor he gained valuable insights and so was hired by the school to investigate what went wrong in these students educations.

I think its more like that... just far ****in worse.

Actually, zerostar, I like your tweak. Let's tweak it again as we get closer to tweak-fection!

Let's say he falsifies his records and gets a job as the college football coach! He has a good first year record and then the crap hits the fan with the annual BIG GAME.

He steps down but the college recognizes NO ONE else knows what HE knows about the school's football program, it's strengths OR it's weaknesses.

Ordinarily, when there's a change in jobs it is an orderly transition with the old guy perhaps getting a few months to get loose ends tied up and all the things ready for a change in management.

Well, the country and Thad Allen and or whoever is now in charge at FEMA deserves to KNOW what Brown knows. If you were Brown would you volunteer your time and effort to be debriefed while you needed to be looking for a new job?

This only makes sense. It's the right thing to do. Brown has valuable insights and knowledge.

I think the OP was pouncing on the sensational aspects of the story. But when you look a bit closer you can better understand why he's being paid.

Brown Tells Congressional Aides He Should Have Sought Military Help Sooner
By Lara Jakes Jordan Associated Press Writer

Published: Sep 26, 2005

WASHINGTON (AP) - Former FEMA director Michael Brown said Monday he should have sought faster help from the Pentagon after Hurricane Katrina hit, and blamed state and local officials for failing to order an immediate evacuation of New Orleans, congressional aides of both parties said.

Brown is continuing to work at the Federal Emergency Management Agency at full pay, with his Sept. 12 resignation not taking effect for two more weeks, said Homeland Security Department spokesman Russ Knocke.

During that time, Brown will advise the department on "some of his views on his experience with Katrina," as he transitions out of his job, Knocke said.

Brown spoke to congressional aides from both parties a day before he is expected to testify in front of a special House committee investigating the government's response to the Aug. 29 disaster.

Brown came to symbolize the halting federal efforts to rescue victims of the storm and flooding that followed in which more than 1,000 people died in Louisiana, Mississippi and Alabama.

Homeland Security Secretary Michael Chertoff removed Brown from his on-site role overseeing the disaster response on Sept. 9. Brown announced his resignation from FEMA three days later.

AP-ES-09-26-05 1919EDT

[goMac]

Originally Posted by Cody Dawg

Yes, I think he simply wants to learn more, that's all. He resigned from a position that was over his head and now he's back in a lesser position to learn.

Actually, if you think about it, that's commendable.

Huh? That's crazy logic. The man is being hired to do an investigation on the mistakes he made. That's like going to school and giving yourself your own grades.

[zerostar]

Originally Posted by mojo2

Let's say he falsifies his records and gets a job as the college football coach! He has a good first year record and then the crap hits the fan with the annual BIG GAME.

Have you seen his first year record?

[Uncle Skeleton]

mojo2, that's the way I read it the first time. Then I read it correctly. The guy isn't a consultant to help the new guy get his sea legs, he's a consultant to help the new guy find out all the bad things he himself did in the past. Totally different. Especially since he's already proven himself a liar.

[mojo2]

Originally Posted by Uncle Skeleton

mojo2, that's the way I read it the first time. Then I read it correctly. The guy isn't a consultant to help the new guy get his sea legs, he's a consultant to help the new guy find out all the bad things he himself did in the past. Totally different. Especially since he's already proven himself a liar.

Hey Unc.

I have lied in the past. I admit it. How can you EVER believe ANYTHING I EVER SAY AGAIN???

Just because someone lies does not invalidate everything they ever say again. Ask yourself if you are capable of telling the truth after having told a lie.

I have trianed my replacement in jobs where I was let go and others where I left for a better situation.

One of the MOST valuable things I ever did during any of these processes was to walk through a situation, like a re-enactment of a real life scenario or a dress rehearsal.

I'm not saying that this is EXACTLY what's going on with "Brownie" but the concept is the same.

At certain points in any given procedure you may have to exercise a decision based on your own judgement. Or, given a set of conditions you might have to choose from any number of choices.

If Brownie had, for example, chosen the option that made the most COMMON SENSE to the most people but it had been THE WRONG DECISION, what would keep the NEXT GUY from making the SAME EXACT CHOICE unless Brownie tells him, something like this.

"Ok, now when you see that green light, you'll think it means GO. Haha. Well, that's the same thing I thought. It DOESN'T really mean GO at all. It's just that the people in charge of that light, -by the way, those folks DO NOT work for FEMA - thought ANY color light was better to use than NO light at all. And no one told me about this crazy light until it was too late."

I just grabbed a hypothetical situation that illustrates the principle. There are things that happened during Katrina THAT NEVER HAPPENED BEFORE but which may happen again. If you DON'T analyze what brown did and or didn't do right and wrong YOU LOSE the lesson we have ALREADY PAID FOR!

The price paid was the highest price possible.

It would be stupidity of THE highest order not to get every bit of Brownie's thoughts and feedback and self analysis possible. The lion's share of the cost has already been paid.

Any of you who don't like his being paid to tell us every thing he knows is like planting the seeds that the mistakes he might have made ARE going to grow up again and doom how many more people?

Stop being so vengeful.

After all, he didn't WANT to fail at this you know?

[AKcrab]

I think the news pretty well covered what went wrong. I don't think Brown can offer anything to the discussion.

[Uncle Skeleton]

I think the incredulous reactions are due mostly to the fact (as reported at least) that Brown was hired back NOT to train his replacement but rather to investigate his own failures. The only thing that would make him a better candidate for this than, say, anyone else on the planet would be if he were to become exceptionally truthful all of a sudden and start revealing things he might have done and then concealed, these being the things that a third party investigator might not uncover. Once you lie on your resume you're pretty much out of consideration for that level of honesty being expected of you.

Personally, I'm still disappointed he's not serving time for that infraction, but I'm not surprised by that aspect and I am surprised about him being hired as his own investigator (if true).

Oh yeah, hi Moj, how's it goin?

[mojo2]

Originally Posted by AKcrab

I think the news pretty well covered what went wrong. I don't think Brown can offer anything to the discussion.

That's the mistake we make sitting before our magic computer screens and keyboards. We think that we are delivered "real life." We AREN'T. We are given a representation. And just as every camera has different visual characteristics every reporter does as well.

When you are trying to get the best, most accurate information about a situation are you saying you would rather get it from reporters who are even LESS qualified than BROWNIE???

Those who don't have the same experience IN FEMA as Brownie?

From friggin reporters who you can't trust to get the OTHER information in OTHER stories right, as we've all seen?

Crab, you are attempting to make a decision with your heart, not your brain.

Not good.

[mojo2]

Originally Posted by Uncle Skeleton

I think the incredulous reactions are due mostly to the fact (as reported at least) that Brown was hired back NOT to train his replacement but rather to investigate his own failures. The only thing that would make him a better candidate for this than, say, anyone else on the planet would be if he were to become exceptionally truthful all of a sudden and start revealing things he might have done and then concealed, these being the things that a third party investigator might not uncover. Once you lie on your resume you're pretty much out of consideration for that level of honesty being expected of you.

Personally, I'm still disappointed he's not serving time for that infraction, but I'm not surprised by that aspect and I am surprised about him being hired as his own investigator (if true).

Oh yeah, hi Moj, how's it goin?

Until you debrief him, get his info, you don't know what you don't know. Once he is finished telling his side of the story THEN you decide if he was candid or not.

CALM DOWN!

He DIDN'T fail on purpose. He THOUGHT he would do a good job. And once, when I was being denied employment, right and left, I thought of padding my resume. To get an idea of what that would mean, I went to a park near the campus and asked a bunch of anonymous folks at random if they ever had and if they ever would lie to get a job or pad a resume.

THEY ALL (maybe 20 different people) SAID YES! They would lie to get a job and they would lie on their resumes.

Gee, you guys act like he's Cindy Sheehan or something!

[Uncle Skeleton]

Originally Posted by mojo2

Until you debrief him, get his info, you don't know what you don't know. Once he is finished telling his side of the story THEN you decide if he was candid or not.

Are you saying the only reason to hire him back is to pump him for information? That's just silly, please try another one.

Does anyone know if this report has been validated yet? If it has, is Brown the only guy in charge of investigating himself or is he more like a side-kick?

And once, when I was being denied employment, right and left, I thought of padding my resume.

You break the rules sometimes and you take your chances that it won't lead to disaster. If/when it does, you have to take responsibility. Do I approve of laws against jay walking? yes. Do I jay walk anyway? yes, when I think it's safe. If I get hit while jay walking, who do I have to blame? me. This is the equivalent of him jay walking towing a class of 4th graders and them being slowly and gruesomely squashed by a cement roller. Or something.

[goMac]

Originally Posted by mojo2

Until you debrief him, get his info, you don't know what you don't know. Once he is finished telling his side of the story THEN you decide if he was candid or not.

CALM DOWN!

He DIDN'T fail on purpose. He THOUGHT he would do a good job. And once, when I was being denied employment, right and left, I thought of padding my resume. To get an idea of what that would mean, I went to a park near the campus and asked a bunch of anonymous folks at random if they ever had and if they ever would lie to get a job or pad a resume.

THEY ALL (maybe 20 different people) SAID YES! They would lie to get a job and they would lie on their resumes.

Gee, you guys act like he's Cindy Sheehan or something!

So what you're say is if someone intentionally fails to do their job they should be fired.

When they are too incompetent to correctly do the job they should be kept on?

[goMac]

Originally Posted by mojo2

If Brownie had, for example, chosen the option that made the most COMMON SENSE to the most people but it had been THE WRONG DECISION, what would keep the NEXT GUY from making the SAME EXACT CHOICE unless Brownie tells him, something like this.

"Ok, now when you see that green light, you'll think it means GO. Haha. Well, that's the same thing I thought. It DOESN'T really mean GO at all. It's just that the people in charge of that light, -by the way, those folks DO NOT work for FEMA - thought ANY color light was better to use than NO light at all. And no one told me about this crazy light until it was too late."

No Mojo. You're not getting it. Brown is not being hired to advise the new guy. Brown is being hired to investigate his own mistakes. If, as you've so wonderfully pointed out, he thinks he didn't make mistakes, then what good is hiring him to look at his mistakes?!?!

[mojo2]

Originally Posted by Uncle Skeleton

Are you saying the only reason to hire him back is to pump him for information? That's just silly, please try another one.

I'm amazed that you REALLY think you have enough information with which to make an intelligent decision on this. THAT is a dangerous belief! The Jerry Springer/Judge Judy armchair quarterbacking and second guessing and sitting in judgement syndrome is like Soylent Green. It may be satisfying to consume but it's not really as healthy as we might think. We are becoming cannibals! We're eating ourselves and can't see it!

What is dangerous is that you are REALLY thinking you know better than the people closer to the real life situation?

[mojo2]

Originally Posted by goMac

No Mojo. You're not getting it. Brown is not being hired to advise the new guy. Brown is being hired to investigate his own mistakes. If, as you've so wonderfully pointed out, he thinks he didn't make mistakes, then what good is hiring him to look at his mistakes?!?!

Where did I say he didn't think he made mistakes? I can see why you get upset. You see things that aren't there!

[Uncle Skeleton]

Originally Posted by mojo2

I'm amazed that you REALLY think you have enough information with which to make an intelligent decision on this.

If you read the thread you will notice that I haven't pretended to take the report at face value. All I'm armchair quarterbacking is your responses, which don't seem to follow any internal logic. If you have more facts to present I will consider them with the same skepticism as I did the original post, but you haven't really. All you've done is misunderstand people's objections to the original report as given. I was just trying to explain it to you.

I just realized I'm bored with this thread. I won't be reading it anymore, but I'm sure someone else can keep you entertained here.

[mojo2]

Originally Posted by goMac

So what you're say is if someone intentionally fails to do their job they should be fired.

When they are too incompetent to correctly do the job they should be kept on?

What I'm saying is that I DON'T KNOW that he was relieved of his duties (fired/quit) fairly.

Neither do YOU!

All you can point to is the fact that FEMA performed less adequately during the FREAKISHLY disastrous Katrina than they had before his tenure or during other disasters that took place during his tenure.

Subsequent to the Katrina disaster irregularities were discovered in his resume and statement of qualifications.

Now, until an investigation takes place and the results are made known, all you know is what sketchy information you hear, and what emotional conclusions are arrived at by others who may not have all the facts but only THINK (or NOT think) they do!

Like those of us here!

Read up on the subject of mob mentality. Then, ask yourself why you feel the need to crucify the guy.

Lord KNOWS he'll have to live with his own doubts and whatever guilt he may feel.

Grace and forgiveness might be something to better spend some time considering. I've often marvelled at the families or loved ones whose relative was murdered who are able to forgive the murderer. Think of what a feat THAT is!

If you are so quick to criticize the faults of Mike Brown and how far below perfect he falls, why not consider HOW far superior some people are in their ability to forgive.

Justice will be served. Trust that there IS a plan beyond our ability to regulate.

Or understand.

[mojo2]

Originally Posted by Uncle Skeleton

If you read the thread you will notice that I haven't pretended to take the report at face value. All I'm armchair quarterbacking is your responses, which don't seem to follow any internal logic. If you have more facts to present I will consider them with the same skepticism as I did the original post, but you haven't really. All you've done is misunderstand people's objections to the original report as given. I was just trying to explain it to you.

I just realized I'm bored with this thread. I won't be reading it anymore, but I'm sure someone else can keep you entertained here.

I guess that's ONE way to try to have the last word.

[Troll]

Next time George Bush starts spinning about all the corruption in Africa, let's remember this moment.

[goMac]

Mojo, are you saying you don't think it's clear whether he was fired for incompetence he may or may not have committed?

Here's an image for you:

[Doofy]

Originally Posted by goMac

Mojo, are you saying you don't think it's clear whether he was fired for incompetence he may or may not have committed?

Let's get this straight - the only reason Brown resigned was to remove some political heat from the situation (you know, to stop Dems from spontaneously combusting). Now the heat is no longer there, he's free to return.

It's called politics.

[mojo2]

Originally Posted by goMac

Mojo, are you saying you don't think it's clear whether he was fired for incompetence he may or may not have committed?

Here's an image for you:

You are trying to claim knowledge of the situation you haven't yet convinced me you have.

Until you get all the information from an investigation of the matter, you are JUST GUESSING!

You MAY be correctly guessing but you are STILL just guessing. There is no way you can KNOW and neither can I...AT THIS JUNCTURE!

If you want to look at the first impression of everything and take that as the gospel, let me know.

[iLikebeer]

Mojo, it's these kinds of threads that make me think you are about 10 different people from some uber-rightwing thinktank charged with dealing with "anti-republican sentiment" on internet forums. I can just see you guys saying to each other,
"well, he's got us there. ok, who wants to ignore that point and totally say the most retarded off the wall nonsensical non-response."
"Wait, wait, i have one that makes an analogy to candy bars, i really know how to push goMac's buttons. I got this, he'll give me more ammo to spout something even crazier."
"wow, that is crazy, good stuff"

On topic, wow. Just wow.

[Doofy]

Originally Posted by iLikebeer

Mojo, it's these kinds of threads that make me think you are about 10 different people from some uber-rightwing thinktank charged with dealing with "anti-republican sentiment" on internet forums.

Sounds like an interesting job. Where do I apply?

[Pendergast]

Originally Posted by goMac

Huh? That's crazy logic. The man is being hired to do an investigation on the mistakes he made. That's like going to school and giving yourself your own grades.

Not a problem if you are a friend of the party.

[mojo2]

Originally Posted by iLikebeer

Mojo, it's these kinds of threads that make me think you are about 10 different people from some uber-rightwing thinktank charged with dealing with "anti-republican sentiment" on internet forums. I can just see you guys saying to each other,
"well, he's got us there. ok, who wants to ignore that point and totally say the most retarded off the wall nonsensical non-response."
"Wait, wait, i have one that makes an analogy to candy bars, i really know how to push goMac's buttons. I got this, he'll give me more ammo to spout something even crazier."
"wow, that is crazy, good stuff"

On topic, wow. Just wow.

Multiple posters, one nick??? Not a bad idea.

[spauldingg]

Mojo, your tortured analogies are just that. Torutured.
This incredible idiocy needs no analogy. It is what it is. An incompetent crony is given a huge job responsible for the lives of all americans in all possible natural disasters. A disaster occurs that has been predicted by experts and the idiot in charge fails miserably due to a total lack of experience. People die miserable deaths. Drowning people are not saved. Starving masses aren't fed or rescued. Needed supplies are turned away. Important communication lines are deliberately cut.

This becomes a political nightmare for the imbeciles who hired him despite knowing his total lack of ability. He pretends to quit to take some heat off the higher ups, fully knowing that the tax payers will continue to pay his huge salary for another month or two, and he will be payed even more later as a "consultant" to ostensibly "investigate" his own miserable failures.

Nothing you say can counter the blatant hypocrisy, cronyism, and out and out idiocy of this. If anything it should turn your stomach to the point of abandoning this admin out of hand for all eternity, as it should be every americans final straw with these consistently corrupt neocon politicos.

[iLikebeer]

Originally Posted by spauldingg

Mojo, your tortured analogies are just that. Torutured.
This incredible idiocy needs no analogy. It is what it is. An incompetent crony is given a huge job responsible for the lives of all americans in all possible natural disasters. A disaster occurs that has been predicted by experts and the idiot in charge fails miserably due to a total lack of experience. People die miserable deaths. Drowning people are not saved. Starving masses aren't fed or rescued. Needed supplies are turned away. Important communication lines are deliberately cut.

This becomes a political nightmare for the imbeciles who hired him despite knowing his total lack of ability. He pretends to quit to take some heat off the higher ups, fully knowing that the tax payers will continue to pay his huge salary for another month or two, and he will be payed even more later as a "consultant" to ostensibly "investigate" his own miserable failures.

Nothing you say can counter the blatant hypocrisy, cronyism, and out and out idiocy of this. If anything it should turn your stomach to the point of abandoning this admin out of hand for all eternity, as it should be every americans final straw with these consistently corrupt neocon politicos.

This thread might be about the extreme inability of FEMA to investigate its failings, but if you're going to go the extra mile and lay blame for the bad response, don't forget to mention the officials in charge of Louisianna were retarded and hold the majority of the blame for not preparing for this locally on a statewide level, where the initial response should come from. Who is going to investigate those failings. I hope they actually do some soul searching as opposed to the disgrace we're discussing here.

Instead of making this a partisan issue for each side, everybody should be more concerned with making sure this doesn't happen again at ANY level. Democrats and Republicans both failed when it comes down to it.

[Weyland-Yutani]

No person should be hired to investigate or analyze his own mistakes or job effort. At any level, from a construction worker to a president. Simple as that.

cheers

W-Y

[spauldingg]

Every thing I wrote was specific to FEMA and Brown and Federal response. If you want to start threads with specifics about local and state failures I'll gladly join in and most probably agree with every verifiable failure on their part. But this thread isn't about that.

[iLikebeer]

Originally Posted by spauldingg

Every thing I wrote was specific to FEMA and Brown and Federal response. If you want to start threads with specifics about local and state failures I'll gladly join in and most probably agree with every verifiable failure on their part. But this thread isn't about that.

This incredible idiocy needs no analogy. It is what it is. An incompetent crony is given a huge job responsible for the lives of all americans in all possible natural disasters. A disaster occurs that has been predicted by experts and the idiot in charge fails miserably due to a total lack of experience. People die miserable deaths. Drowning people are not saved. Starving masses aren't fed or rescued. Needed supplies are turned away. Important communication lines are deliberately cut.

That applies to city, state, and national response and preparation (except the "responsible for the lives of all americans".) FEMA and the Bush administration screwed up, but if you overstate your case, some of us think that BOTH partisan dems and reps are disgusting in how they're using this tragedy to their advantage. We just want government to do what it is supposed to at all levels and don't care who is in charge as long as the job gets done.

[spauldingg]

I agree, but It's the "don't care who's in charge" part that caused the job not getting done. And the guy in charge is back! That is what I started this thread for. I don't recall specific threads here about local and state failures. Maybe someone should start one? Preferably someone from Louisiana, as they would have more pull/stake in it.

[mojo2]

Originally Posted by spauldingg

Mojo, your tortured analogies are just that. Torutured.
This incredible idiocy needs no analogy. It is what it is. An incompetent crony is given a huge job responsible for the lives of all americans in all possible natural disasters. A disaster occurs that has been predicted by experts and the idiot in charge fails miserably due to a total lack of experience. People die miserable deaths. Drowning people are not saved. Starving masses aren't fed or rescued. Needed supplies are turned away. Important communication lines are deliberately cut.

This becomes a political nightmare for the imbeciles who hired him despite knowing his total lack of ability. He pretends to quit to take some heat off the higher ups, fully knowing that the tax payers will continue to pay his huge salary for another month or two, and he will be payed even more later as a "consultant" to ostensibly "investigate" his own miserable failures.

Nothing you say can counter the blatant hypocrisy, cronyism, and out and out idiocy of this. If anything it should turn your stomach to the point of abandoning this admin out of hand for all eternity, as it should be every americans final straw with these consistently corrupt neocon politicos.

I have to say you have the ability to assess the aspects of the situation that would seem OBVIOUS. Hell, why waste taxpayer money with an investigation? Hell, for THAT matter, why don't we change our whole court system to make first appearances REALLY COUNT for something as it does in your book.

A young black man running down the street past a jewelry store that has just been robbed and the robber got away. The kid looks guilty? Hell, he MUST be. Let's shoot him!
*spauldinggggggg* (neat new gunshot sound in the new era of First Apprearances Count!"

What in your physical or mental make up do you think prevents you from DELAYING GRATIFICATION???

If he's guilty, he'll STILL be guilty when the investigation is over!

[iLikebeer]

Originally Posted by spauldingg

I agree, but It's the "don't care who's in charge" part that caused the job not getting done. And the guy in charge is back! That is what I started this thread for. I don't recall specific threads here about local and state failures. Maybe someone should start one? Preferably someone from Louisiana, as they would have more pull/stake in it.

I totally agree with you and the whole point of this thread. I'm just saying there's no need to beat a dead horse or present the case as if it's all FEMA's fault. A lot of your examples were NOT specific to FEMA. FEMA is at fault, but there's no need for hyperbole when the simple facts of the case are damning on their own.

[mojo2]

Originally Posted by Weyland-Yutani

No person should be hired to investigate or analyze his own mistakes or job effort. At any level, from a construction worker to a president. Simple as that.

cheers

W-Y

WASHINGTON (CNN) -- A congressional panel on Tuesday is expected to scrutinize the decision to keep ousted Federal Emergency Management Agency chief Michael Brown on the federal payroll.

Brown told congressional investigators Monday that he is being paid as a consultant to help FEMA assess what went wrong in the aftermath of Hurricane Katrina, according to a senior official familiar with the meeting.

You don't want to know what went wrong? Do you want someone else to MAYBE make the same mistakes Brown may have? Do you know that any/all of the mistakes were HIS fault?

How many were systemic? How many were from the way FEMA handles multiple catastrophes?

What you are saying is you'd rather remain in the dark and doom the NEXT guy and the next 1,000's of victims?