[Cody Dawg]

Right now there is a huge controversy over a website created by a man by the name of Christopher Wilson based here in Polk County, Florida.

Christopher Wilson runs a website where people can post pictures of porn online. Additionally, his site is now a target site where American soldiers are now posting not only personal porn pictures of themselves and others, but also grisly pictures of dead Iraqis and soldiers online - and where the Americans are bragging about the killing.

He solicited soldiers in Iraq and Afghanistan to post pictures of dead combatants. You can read more about it here.

His website is www.nowthatsf***edup.com and since this site won't allow the "f" word you're going to have to type it into your URL browser window yourself. If you scroll down you'll see "Pictures from Iraq and Afghanistan - Gory" and that is where most of the pics seem to be.

WARNING: SEXUALLY EXPLICIT MATERIAL AND MANY GRISLY PHOTOS.

What do you think of this site and do you think this site should be taken down?

More importantly, there is talk of the soldiers who have posted these pictures being court martialed for their involvement with posting such pictures.

Think they should be held accountable?

This just makes the United States army and military look even worse. In the pictures they are laughing and ridiculing the dead - even proud of the pictures.

I think it's disgusting and they should be held accountable, but that's just my opinion.

This is going to become a huge problem for the United States government as it makes its way into United States headlines this week. I'm sure the government is not very happy about it.

It makes me think that human beings are really just not evolved at all, barbaric, and that Americans should not be in Iraq, period. This is something we Americans should be ashamed of. They are posting pictures of the dead and porn together and when you read the posts that soldiers are submitting, it makes you realize that these people are no better than the terrorists that they are supposedly fighting against.

Truly disturbing and disgusting.

[Rolling Bones]

Isn't this old news?

Unless it's happened again?

It still sux.

I think I saw a comment from him. Something about freedom of speech and capitalism.

[Cody Dawg]

Now he's been arrested for it. He says free speech is threatened.

I think that the army and free speech do not necessarily correspond.

Plus, the soldiers are just wrong, plain wrong, to post these pictures.

[Rolling Bones]

WARNING! WARNING! WARNING!

Ok, I just had to go there and came upon this pic. Very very gory. Brains and stuff but the pool of blood mesmerized me. There is a face.

Go at your own risk. You have been warned.

Fill in the missing letters in the url.

http://www.nowthats****edup.com/bbs/ftopic6320.html

[Cody Dawg]

Yes. Then look at how they talk about the dead:

all those anti coalition looks like dumbass even dead or are they naturally like that?
KILL ALL OF THEM

Sick, sick, sick.

[Pendergast]

Why several threads about it again?

[OreoCookie]

I think there are three entirely different topics to be covered here: 1 It's the site's original intention to post private porn pics. 2. Porn pics posted by soldiers. 3. Pictures of US soldiers gloating over the death of Iraqis.

As for 1 and 2, I think it is a private matter, as long as all parties agree to publication. Although I don't know if there are provisions which prohibit soldiers from posting such pictures.

The last problem is clearly something the US military should do something about. It just isn't disrespectful towards the dead, this is giving the whole US military the image it's trying to fight. Don't get me wrong, the military shouldn't specifically try to do something about the photos, no, they should ensure something like this doesn't happen in the first place. Just because pictures aren't published, doesn't mean it's not happening anymore.

[Athens]

thats just ****ed up

[Cody Dawg]

I agree with you OreoCookie. It just shouldn't happen in the first place.

Secondly, apparently there are rules against what they are doing.

I sent it to Matt Drudge and apparently it's up at his site now too.

I just don't understand the vile hatred. We become what we went over there to fight against. It's terrible.

[Sky Captain]

When I was in GW1 there were some sick ****s there too.
They reveled in taking pictures of bodies in burned out tanks and equipment.
These peole are sociopaths, No amount of regulation will stop them.
In any profession. Be it a soilder or bank teller.
That's why we have pedpphiles, peeping toms and other pieces of **** in our society.

[Cody Dawg]

Now, here's the question:

Did they go into the army that way? Meaning, the dregs of society are joining? Meaning, our soldiers, "brave heroes," are actually sociopaths?

Or did they become that way when they were put in this situation?

Because, their attitudes remind me of what the Nazis did to the Jews.

I honestly think that if they could have concentration camps for these people that they would - their attitudes are strikingly similar.

[ghporter]

Once you condition a person to accept that killing is acceptable, you MUST CONSTANTLY maintain conditioning of that person to WHEN killing is acceptable, and under what circumstances dealing with such killing is acceptable. This is a difficult proposition in an age when a lot of young people have a taste for grizzly video games that reward the player for being far more destructive than a real world analog of the game scenario would require. In other words, these young soldiers have not been properly taught that splattered bodies are NOT something to be proud of, and that it's completely unacceptable to photograph the dead for purposed of gloating.

My father-in-law was a soldier in the 82nd Airborne Division in WWII, and simply would not talk about the "ooey-gooey" part of his experiences. That's because it wasn't socially acceptable to blend the work of killing with the rest of one's life. It still isn't, but nobody's working at keeping soldiers properly oriented.

[Sky Captain]

These people were sick ****s before they went in.
Some of these jackasses are the bullies in the schoolhalls.
This is about lack of self regulation.
And you're right, someone should have taught them self control. But their PARENTS failed miserably.

[iLikebeer]

Originally Posted by ghporter

Once you condition a person to accept that killing is acceptable, you MUST CONSTANTLY maintain conditioning of that person to WHEN killing is acceptable, and under what circumstances dealing with such killing is acceptable. This is a difficult proposition in an age when a lot of young people have a taste for grizzly video games that reward the player for being far more destructive than a real world analog of the game scenario would require. In other words, these young soldiers have not been properly taught that splattered bodies are NOT something to be proud of, and that it's completely unacceptable to photograph the dead for purposed of gloating.

My father-in-law was a soldier in the 82nd Airborne Division in WWII, and simply would not talk about the "ooey-gooey" part of his experiences. That's because it wasn't socially acceptable to blend the work of killing with the rest of one's life. It still isn't, but nobody's working at keeping soldiers properly oriented.

This kind of stuff has been happening since before Achilles dragged Hector's corpse around Troy. The internet and other modern media allow us to see stuff that we normally would have no clue about. There are any number of ways to explain (not justify, just explain) this kind of behavior: coping mechanisms, feeling of revenge after 9/11, adrenaline rush after a battle, ....

[OSX Abuser]

Did you hear or read anywhere that the operatore of that site has been arrested by the Feds??
Not for the dead iraqi pics but on porn charges
************************************************** ********************************************
MIAMI (Reuters) - The American operator of a Web site which posted grisly pictures of people killed in the Iraq and Afghan conflicts was arrested on obscenity charges unrelated to the war photos, police officials in Florida said.

The Polk County sheriff's office said Christopher Michael Wilson was arrested on Friday and faces one count of wholesale distribution of obscene material and 300 misdemeanor charges relating to the Web site and pornographic photos.

The charges were unrelated to the photos of corpses from Iraq and Afghanistan, which the site states were provided by U.S. troops in exchange for free access to pornographic material.

Several of the graphic pictures showed men wearing what looked like U.S. military uniforms, standing over charred corpses, mutilated bodies and severed body parts.

Many were accompanied by captions making light of the corpses. One photo of a charred body was dubbed "Cooked Iraqi."

The Pentagon has said it found no evidence any of the photos were posted by soldiers.

Wilson was being held in jail under a $151,000 bond, the Polk County sheriff's office said.

"In my 33 years of law enforcement experience, this is one of the most horrific examples of filthy, obscene materials we have ever seized," Sheriff Grady Judd said in a statement. He did not elaborate.

Judd said the investigation was continuing and any pertinent information would be shared with the U.S. Army Criminal Investigations Division.

Judd told the Orlando Sentinel newspaper his investigation was not spurred by federal authorities.

Wilson lives in Lakeland, Florida, but hosts the site out of Amsterdam, Netherlands, according to an article last month in the Online Journalism Review of the Annenberg School for Communications at the University of Southern California.

The controversy sparked by the photographs of war dead followed the publication a year and a half ago of photos showing U.S. soldiers abusing Iraqi prisoners at Abu Ghraib jail. That scandal prompted international condemnation of the United States.

[OreoCookie]

That's dishonest. If they choose to arrest him, they should do it for the `right' reasons. Can anyone tell me why this guy can get into trouble if the (porn) pictures posted were put there with permission of the persons in the picture? (Just asking.)

It's the soldiers who should be in trouble, not the guy who publishes them (technically, he apparently wasn't detained because of the war pictures).

[Cody Dawg]

I agree.

The SOLDIERS should be court martialed - which is what I said in the beginning.

This is the government's COWARDLY way out.

They won't admit that their soldiers are sickos - yet they want to shut the site down ASAP because of the embarrassment that it is to the world.

They need to prosecute the people participating in the site.

[ghporter]

Originally Posted by Cody Dawg

I agree.

The SOLDIERS should be court martialed - which is what I said in the beginning.

This is the government's COWARDLY way out.

They won't admit that their soldiers are sickos - yet they want to shut the site down ASAP because of the embarrassment that it is to the world.

They need to prosecute the people participating in the site.

Under what article of the UCMJ should they be prosecuted? It has to be specific-even if what they did was as reprehensible as we appear to believe it was, what rule did they break? If you can't cite a specific violation of a specific article of the UCMJ, then you CANNOT prosecute them. It's like saying "I don't like the sign that person put up on his property, so I'm going to have him arrested." It doesn't work that way.

On the other hand, each of those soldiers has indeed put the U.S. Army in a very bad light, and further has exhibited signs of seriously antisocial behavior. They CAN be ordered into psychological treatment without their permission.

[OreoCookie]

Originally Posted by ghporter

Under what article of the UCMJ should they be prosecuted? It has to be specific-even if what they did was as reprehensible as we appear to believe it was, what rule did they break? If you can't cite a specific violation of a specific article of the UCMJ, then you CANNOT prosecute them. It's like saying "I don't like the sign that person put up on his property, so I'm going to have him arrested." It doesn't work that way.

On the other hand, each of those soldiers has indeed put the U.S. Army in a very bad light, and further has exhibited signs of seriously antisocial behavior. They CAN be ordered into psychological treatment without their permission.

I'm not an expert in military law, so I won't pretend I am. But it seems to me that the weakest element here is punished (even for something unrelated), the owner of the website.

But if anyone has to take responsibility (and if it turns out that they did something illegal), it's the soldiers and not the owner of the site.

[Cody Dawg]

Oh, please, there ARE some rules being broken, laws even.

If they can prosecute people like Lyndie England and the others for abuses of the living they can surely do it for the dead.

They are even posting pictures of American female soldiers that were blown up! Pictures of women who are naked and blown up and then they are making jokes about it.

Fill in the blank and go here: http://www.nowthats****edup.com/bbs/ftopic6319.html

BEWARE: VERY DISTURBING - INCLUDING THE WAY THEY SPOKE ABOUT HER

They need to be prosecuted, every one of them.

[Macrobat]

Originally Posted by OreoCookie

That's dishonest. If they choose to arrest him, they should do it for the `right' reasons. Can anyone tell me why this guy can get into trouble if the (porn) pictures posted were put there with permission of the persons in the picture? (Just asking.)

It's the soldiers who should be in trouble, not the guy who publishes them (technically, he apparently wasn't detained because of the war pictures).

All part of the FBI's crackdown on porn in general. It is obviously impossible to provide the legally required proof of age when amateurs are posting pictures of htmeselves, therefore, the government can shut down any and all websites that do not conform to the letter of the law.

All "adult" sites are required by federal law to have signed releases for all models and valid, legal proof of age.

It goes along the same lines as Al Capone being prosecuted for tax evasion. There is no law specifically precluding the death pictures, just as there is nothing in the UCMJ prohibiting military members from posting the death pictures unless there is an element of classified material involved.

The Lynndie comparison is invalid, since the soldiers are simply posting pictures of enemy dead, not "torturing" or humiliating prisoners. There is no law violated here unless there is classified information published.

[OreoCookie]

Originally Posted by Macrobat

It goes along the same lines as Al Capone being prosecuted for tax evasion. There is no law specifically precluding the death pictures, just as there is nothing in the UCMJ prohibiting military members from posting the death pictures unless there is an element of classified material involved.

Yes, you are correct, but I think it goes further than that. Al Capone was guilty and they caught him with what they could get him with. But here it seems the site popped up on the radar of the authorities not because of the porn pics, but because of the attention his site got from the media for posting pictures from Iraq and Afghanistan.

On the other hand, the people who posted the pictures in the first place will apparently not be punished in any other way.

PS Doesn't the fact that the server is located in the Netherlands change anything?

[itistoday]

Originally Posted by Cody Dawg

Oh, please, there ARE some rules being broken, laws even.

If they can prosecute people like Lyndie England and the others for abuses of the living they can surely do it for the dead.

They are even posting pictures of American female soldiers that were blown up! Pictures of women who are naked and blown up and then they are making jokes about it.

Fill in the blank and go here: http://www.nowthats****edup.com/bbs/ftopic6319.html

BEWARE: VERY DISTURBING - INCLUDING THE WAY THEY SPOKE ABOUT HER

They need to be prosecuted, every one of them.

I'm seriously confused here Cody. What are you bitching about? Why should "they" be prosecuted? And who is "they"?

Are you saying that the posters of these pictures should be prosecuted for taking pictures?

Are you saying that the people who made lewd comments in the thread should be prosecuted for their words?

I'm afraid you don't understand many things. There's this thing called the first amendment that rightfully protects them. They can laugh and jeer all they want, but I think that someone who feels they should be put to jail for something they said is even worse than them.

And why are you shocked and surprised by these pictures? Honestly. This is *war*. War is not fun and brave heroics. It never was, and never will be. It's a bunch of morons with guns "following orders". There's nothing heroic about war, and neither side in any war is "good" or "evil". You must think that real war is the kind of war you see in movies.

I really don't understand why you are flipping out. Help me out here.

[zerostar]

man, now thats ****ed up.

[isao bered]

Originally Posted by Macrobat

There is no law specifically precluding the death pictures, just as there is nothing in the UCMJ prohibiting military members from posting the death pictures unless there is an element of classified material involved.

ehhh... if it's deemed to be against good order and discipline it *may* be actionable. perhaps not considered of itself a courts martial offense. especially if it had been ordered not to engage in such activity, i would not want to be the one to test the will of a co.

be well.

laeth

[isao bered]

Originally Posted by itistoday

It's a bunch of morons with guns "following orders".

:-/ as opposed to morons with computers armchairing dissent (and perhaps support for that matter)?

be well.

laeth

[waxcrash]

Where's the timeline? This is old news.

http://forums.macnn.com/95/political-war-lounge/270978/us-soldiers-trade-pictures-dead-iraqis/