[cmeisenzahl]

The Christopher Columbus Controversy: Western Civilization vs. Primitivism
by Michael Berliner (October 10, 2005)

"Summary: Underlying the political collectivism of the anti-Columbus crowd is a racist view of human nature."

http://www.capmag.com/article.asp?ID=1317

[dcmacdaddy]

ALERT: Rule #8 violation.

Please tell us what you think about this article.

[dcmacdaddy]

Oh, and if you read the article, there are some laughable logical assumptions/conclusions in the piece. Of most interest is the narrow-mindedness that associates Columbus coming to the New World with the establishment of the United States. Never mind the fact that there is another major country to our North and a host of smaller countries to our South, in Central America. But Columbus discovering there was land on the Western edge of the ocean somehow only has significance for the eventual founding of the United States, not Canada, Mexico or any of the countries of Central America.

But, to be fair, if you are one of those who believes the Manifest Destiny ideals espoused about this country, and that somehow the way of life we lead in this country is to be considered the high-point of civilization, then you will like reading this article.


There is one major factual error in his piece I must correct. He says:
"Whatever the problems it brought, the vilified Western culture also brought enormous, undreamed-of benefits, without which most of today's Indians would be infinitely poorer or not even alive."

You see, the thing is, the main problem Western European culture brought to the New World was not war but disease. During the initial two centuries of contact most Indians who died here as a result of contact with the Europeans did not die in armed conflict but in reaction to their diseases which never existed in the hemisphere.

So, "most of today's Indians" would not be alive today regardless of whether the Europeans came in peace or war. Their intentions were irrelevant to the diseases that decimated the native populations that existed during those times of contact.

[cmeisenzahl]

Originally Posted by dcmacdaddy

ALERT: Rule #8 violation.

Please tell us what you think about this article.

>> ALERT: Rule #8 violation.
>> Please tell us what you think about this article.

Sure, sorry about that. I think it's a phenomenal article. Western European culture has been great for the new world.

Chris

[Millennium]

Normally I don't tend to agree with all that much of what Ayn Rand and her ilk put out: I think they've got the right idea when it comes to prioritizing individual rights above all else, but my opinion on their brand of logic can be summed up with three letters: WTF?!

That said, I think they have some interesting points on this, though as usual they extrapolate things a bit far. What does Columbus' discovery have to do with Galileo or Newton?

[Randman]

One quick thing (in case someone mentions it). Columbus didn't think the people were Indian. His Spanish was bad but he called the locals the people of God, or en Dios as it would be in Spanish. En Dios became Indians hence calling the natives that. So, it's not derogatory to call someone Indian. However, it does minimize others because anyone born in the Americas is a native American.

[Myriad]

Originally Posted by cmeisenzahl

]Sure, sorry about that. I think it's a phenomenal article. Western European culture has been great for the new world.

You and the author both agree on that, but it has nothing to do with how we should view the man that was Christopher Columbus. The Columbus issue is simply tacked on to make the article somewhat relevant being published on Columbus day. Just because this guy wants to say how great Western Civilization is doesn't mean that we should ignore the history of Columbus. He captured slaves, killed off native populations, and failed miserably as administrator of the first Spanish colony.

[von Wrangell]

When's Leifur Heppni day? (Leif the Lucky for you foreigners)

Just wondering because he was the first European to find America. Some 400 years before CC.

[Rolling Bones]

Columbus got lost and started a genocide that no one since has been able to equal.

[Rolling Bones]

Originally Posted by von Wrangell

When's Leifur Heppni day? (Leif the Lucky for you foreigners)

Just wondering because he was the first European to find America. Some 400 years before CC.

Yup he was (Leif Ericson)...around the year one thousand. And remains of the settlement remain at L'Anse aux Meadows.

[von Wrangell]

Originally Posted by Rolling Bones

Yup he was (Leif Ericson)...around the year one thousand. And remains of the settlement remain at L'Anse aux Meadows.

It's Leifur Eiríksson.

[goMac]

Originally Posted by Randman

One quick thing (in case someone mentions it). Columbus didn't think the people were Indian. His Spanish was bad but he called the locals the people of God, or en Dios as it would be in Spanish. En Dios became Indians hence calling the natives that. So, it's not derogatory to call someone Indian. However, it does minimize others because anyone born in the Americas is a native American.

Not true:
http://www.straightdope.com/mailbag/mgenteindios.html

[Rolling Bones]

Originally Posted by goMac

Not true:
http://www.straightdope.com/mailbag/mgenteindios.html

Is this referred to as a 'smackdown'?

[demograph68]

Originally Posted by cmeisenzahl

Western European culture has been great for the new world.

Right....