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Busemann · Jul 30, 2006, 08:56 AM

At least 54 civilians were killed, including more than 30 children*, by an airstrike on the city Qana.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/5228224.stm

Once again, Israel is starting an investigation on what it deems a mistake.

*exact numbers seem uncertain at this point

jamil5454 · Jul 30, 2006, 09:52 AM

How many Hezbollah members have been killed?
Zero.

Now tell me, over 500 Lebanese civilians dead, Israel targetting and bombing civilian refugee buildings, and then 18 Israeli civilians killed from Hezbollah rockets... who's causing more "terror"?

PacHead · Jul 30, 2006, 09:54 AM

Originally Posted by Busemann

Once again, Israel is starting an investigation on what it deems a mistake.

It doesn't say anything about Israel starting an investigation or that it was a mistake in that article.

It was no mistake, that was a legitimate target and Lebanon is getting what they deserve. Rockets were fired from that position and civilians were told to leave that area. The prime minister of Lebanon has now come out and thanked Hezbollah for their service. Israel should continue bombing all legitimate targets such as the one quoted in your article.

PacHead · Jul 30, 2006, 09:56 AM

Originally Posted by jamil5454

How many Hezbollah members have been killed?
Zero.

WRONG. Many Hezbollah terrorists have been given a quick trip to retrieve their virgins.

Busemann · Jul 30, 2006, 10:02 AM

Originally Posted by PacHead

It was no mistake, that was a legitimate target and Lebanon is getting what they deserve. Rockets were fired from that position and civilians were told to leave that area. The prime minister of Lebanon has now come out and thanked Hezbollah for their service. Israel should continue bombing all legitimate targets such as the one quoted in your article.

Doesn't seem so, as per CNN:

"The building itself was not targeted," Israeli government spokeswoman Miri Eisen told CNN. "The building itself was next to the rocket-launcher sites and we are targeting all of those rocket-launcher sites. This was a mistake and we will have a full investigation."

Sky Captain · Jul 30, 2006, 10:11 AM

Hiz-blow-allah is DELIBERATELY firing rockets rom civilian positions.
Hiding behind civilians as usual.

The sooner hiz-blow-allah stops it's attacks, the sooner the violence ends.
Period.

And Israel has a reverse trajectory calculating radar system.
It sends a love note back to the original sender.

PacHead · Jul 30, 2006, 10:21 AM

Originally Posted by Busemann

Doesn't seem so, as per CNN:

I don't watch CNN. On Fox, another spokesperson said that they have video showing that Hezbollah was firing rockets from there.

PacHead · Jul 30, 2006, 10:23 AM

Originally Posted by Sky Captain

The sooner hiz-blow-allah stops it's attacks, the sooner the violence ends.
Period.

Exactly. The people who whine about ceasefires can stop the war immediately. Hezbollah and the Lebanese don't want to, so the war should continue.

Buckaroo · Jul 30, 2006, 10:25 AM

Correction 54 Terrorists killed in bomb attack. All 54 vollunteered to stand as cover for terrorists launching rockets.

All true citizens were warned and left the area. Anyone left behind are terrorists, or their tools.

jamil5454 · 11:25 AM

Originally Posted by PacHead

Exactly. The people who whine about ceasefires can stop the war immediately. Hezbollah and the Lebanese don't want to, so the war should continue.

Accusing Hezbollah of not wanting a ceasefire is one thing, but the Lebanese? Come on. The prime minister is BEGGING for one just so that humanitarian aid can get in there.

Just the other day 3 pickup trucks were bombed in Dhour Shweir, a resort town in the mountains. It's a greek orthodox village with no Hezbollah members at all. What were the trucks carrying? Vegetables.

I think everyone here is missing the point. It's not about Hezbollah... this conflict stems from way back, when Israel was first formed. The Palestinians who originally occupied most of the land were more or less driven out, some paid for their property but the majority weren't. Every person in eastern Europe that even remotely had a Jewish relative were allowed to immigrate to the newly-formed Israel. Then, Israel invades southern Lebanon, the weakest of its neighbors. Why? more land. And invades, and invades, and occupies... etc. As more and more Lebanese are driven from their homes, is it really a surprise that all this tension and hate have been building against Israel over the years? People don't hate other people for no reason. The Lebanese army can't even hold a candle to US-supplied Israel. And, now a military and political force shows up and promises to get back at Israel and defend southern Lebanon. The southern Lebanese don't care that the world considers them a terrorist organization... they've been driven from their homes and lost relatives. For heaven's sake they're desperate! It's no wonder Hezbollah has Lebanese supporters. Although Hezbollah is from Syria and Iran, it is Lebanon's only real defense.

But why can't Lebanon defend herself? Well for one thing Israel slapped a weapons embargo on the importation of weapons into Lebanon, but more importantly, as soon as Lebanon begins to rebuild and structure her country Israel bombs them back to the stone age. Anyone here that's been to Lebanon pre-civil war knows it to be the "Paris of the Middle East."

The reason here why Israel is destroying Lebanon actually has nothing to do with Hezbollah and everything to do with obliterating Lebanon's infrastructure and economy, so they'll never pose a real threat to Israel. What is Israel doing targetting well-known Christian locations in a war against Islamic Hezbollah?

Over 500 Lebanese civilians killed (possibly hundreds more from Qana), many of them not even muslim, and 18 Israel civilians. Innocent deaths on both sides are deplorable, and I also condemn Hezbollah for targetting civilians (although, with such inaccuracy, we can't really be sure what they're targetting). Also, every military technology the U.S. has Israel has. Wouldn't you think there's a better, more peaceful way to weed out Hezbollah?

Don't get me wrong. I, as a Lebanese citizen, want Hezbollah out and the fighting to stop. But I also want Lebanon to have a sizeable military force so she can stand up for herself when Israel crosses the line. Why were the peacekeeping forces deployed into southern Lebanon to oversee Israel's withdrawal and not the other way around?

jamil5454 · Jul 30, 2006, 11:19 AM

Originally Posted by Buckaroo

Correction 54 Terrorists killed in bomb attack. All 54 vollunteered to stand as cover for terrorists launching rockets.

All true citizens were warned and left the area. Anyone left behind are terrorists, or their tools.

I wouldn't blame them. The last time civilians were warned to leave the area, they formed a car carravan, got on the roads, and prepared to leave. What did Israel do? Bombed every single car. I say again, this isn't a war on terror, it's war on the infrastructure and morale of Lebanon. Hezbollah is just an excuse.

Sky Captain · Jul 30, 2006, 11:32 AM

Sherman used the same tactic in the American Civil War.
And it worked.

Counter Battery Radar sends the love note before the missles even have time to strike their targets.

PacHead · Jul 30, 2006, 11:44 AM

Originally Posted by jamil5454

The prime minister is BEGGING for one just so that humanitarian aid can get in there.

The prime minister is a terrorist, he was just recently praising Hezbollah for their sacrifice. I don't buy his pleas or his laughable begging for anything.

PacHead · Jul 30, 2006, 11:46 AM

Originally Posted by jamil5454

But why can't Lebanon defend herself?

Lebanon is the aggressor. Remember who attacked who.

Buckaroo · Jul 30, 2006, 02:18 PM

Originally Posted by jamil5454

I wouldn't blame them. The last time civilians were warned to leave the area, they formed a car carravan, got on the roads, and prepared to leave. What did Israel do? Bombed every single car. I say again, this isn't a war on terror, it's war on the infrastructure and morale of Lebanon. Hezbollah is just an excuse.

Your full of B.S. You tell nothing but lies.

Buckaroo · Jul 30, 2006, 02:23 PM

This all would come to an end if just 3 things would happen.

1. The Lebanon would stop the missiles from being launched from their land.
2. The return of the 2 captured soldiers.
3. The gaurantee that no future missile launches will ever occur again.

All three are within the power of the Lebanesse government, but they refuse to make it happen.

If someone starts shooting at you, and kidnap your children, you just don't stand their until you are shot dead. You take action to defend your children. This is what Isreal is doing.

Athens · Jul 30, 2006, 02:34 PM

Originally Posted by PacHead

It doesn't say anything about Israel starting an investigation or that it was a mistake in that article.

It was no mistake, that was a legitimate target and Lebanon is getting what they deserve. Rockets were fired from that position and civilians were told to leave that area. The prime minister of Lebanon has now come out and thanked Hezbollah for their service. Israel should continue bombing all legitimate targets such as the one quoted in your article.

and Hezbollah should continue attacking Israel legitimate targets and since Israel made civilian targets legitimate, im not going to sheed any tears when Israel civilians are killed. To each his own.

Athens · Jul 30, 2006, 02:36 PM

Originally Posted by PacHead

I don't watch CNN. On Fox, another spokesperson said that they have video showing that Hezbollah was firing rockets from there.

HA! you get your news from Fox, you might as well make your own news it will prob be more correct.

PacHead · Jul 30, 2006, 02:38 PM

Originally Posted by Athens

and Hezbollah should continue attacking Israel legitimate targets and since Israel made civilian targets legitimate, im not going to sheed any tears when Israel civilians are killed. To each his own.

Do what you want, that's your choice. Far more terrorists will be wiped out than civilized people.

PacHead · Jul 30, 2006, 02:39 PM

Originally Posted by Athens

HA! you get your news from Fox, you might as well make your own news it will prob be more correct.

I get my news from many sources, including many online. For tv news I like Fox the best. The others border on terrorist propaganda. They're like an American version of Al-Jazeera.

Athens · Jul 30, 2006, 02:41 PM

Originally Posted by Buckaroo

This all would come to an end if just 3 things would happen.

1. The Lebanon would stop the missiles from being launched from their land.
2. The return of the 2 captured soldiers.
3. The gaurantee that no future missile launches will ever occur again.

All three are within the power of the Lebanesse government, but they refuse to make it happen.

If someone starts shooting at you, and kidnap your children, you just don't stand their until you are shot dead. You take action to defend your children. This is what Isreal is doing.

Smoking crack? None of that is in the power of the Lebanesse government and Israel is just making the Lebanesse government even weaker.

Buckaroo · Jul 30, 2006, 02:55 PM

Originally Posted by Athens

and Hezbollah should continue attacking Israel legitimate targets and since Israel made civilian targets legitimate, im not going to sheed any tears when Israel civilians are killed. To each his own.

That is stupid. Why would you want every single Lebanesse dead? It that is what it takes to eliminate Hebollah, then that is the way it is going to be. Lebanon will become a desert.

Buckaroo · Jul 30, 2006, 02:58 PM

Originally Posted by Athens

Smoking crack? None of that is in the power of the Lebanesse government and Israel is just making the Lebanesse government even weaker.

B.S. It is 1000% within the grasp of the Lebanesse. They would rather die than do what is right.

Didn't you see those Lebanesse soldiers parading in the streets with those flags. Why aren't they going throught the neighborhoods rounding up the Hazbollahs. They don't care, that is why. They must have some French in them.

Athens · Jul 30, 2006, 02:59 PM

Originally Posted by Buckaroo

That is stupid. Why would you want every single Lebanesse dead? It that is what it takes to eliminate Hebollah, then that is the way it is going to be. Lebanon will become a desert.

um ya that wont happen

Buckaroo · Jul 30, 2006, 03:00 PM

Originally Posted by Athens

Smoking crack? None of that is in the power of the Lebanesse government and Israel is just making the Lebanesse government even weaker.

Every country is responsible for the actions that occur within their borders. If they just parade their soldiers up and down the streets with flags instead of taking action to round up the terrorists, then hey, they are part of the problem and they are in with the terrorists.

Buckaroo · Jul 30, 2006, 03:00 PM

The Lebanesse government is doing NOTHING to stop the terrorists.

Athens · Jul 30, 2006, 03:01 PM

Originally Posted by Buckaroo

B.S. It is 1000% within the grasp of the Lebanesse. They would rather die than do what is right.

Didn't you see those Lebanesse soldiers parading in the streets with those flags. Why aren't they going throught the neighborhoods rounding up the Hazbollahs. They don't care, that is why. They must have some French in them.

Its a weak government, rounding up a few hezbollah solders would prob lead to the end of them.

greenamp · Jul 30, 2006, 03:05 PM

Islamofascism 101: attack from the cover of civilian areas, and when counter attacked make a media spectacle over the innocents killed.

Here's a question. What would the United States do if a terrorist organization were firing rockets into San Antonio from apartment rooftops in Mexico city?

Athens · Jul 30, 2006, 03:07 PM

Originally Posted by greenamp

Islamofascism 101: attack from the cover of civilian areas, and when counter attacked make a media spectacle over the innocents killed.

Here's a question. What would the United States do if a terrorist organization were firing rockets into San Antonio from apartment rooftops in Mexico city?

Sniper those on the rooftops?

PacHead · Jul 30, 2006, 03:11 PM

Originally Posted by greenamp

Here's a question. What would the United States do if a terrorist organization were firing rockets into San Antonio from apartment rooftops in Mexico city?

If the Mexican government was doing nothing to stop it, and the Mexican terrorists were included in the Mexican government, and the terorrists had the widespread support of the Mexican population as a whole, then there would be a siginificant amount of fairly large craters in and around Mexico city with plenty of dead Mexicans to go along with that. That's what the USA would do in that particular situation.

greenamp · Jul 30, 2006, 03:16 PM

Originally Posted by Athens

Sniper those on the rooftops?

I'm not talking about Halo or Counterstrike.

Athens · Jul 30, 2006, 03:24 PM

Originally Posted by greenamp

I'm not talking about Halo or Counterstrike.

A couple apachies would fly in and distroy the enemy.

PacHead · Jul 30, 2006, 03:27 PM

Originally Posted by Athens

A couple apachies would fly in and distroy the enemy.

And some civilians would die. And then what you do when 2 hours later, another group of Mexicans fires from a different rooftop ? And 30 minutes after that, another group fires from a church ?

jamil5454 · Jul 30, 2006, 03:30 PM

Originally Posted by PacHead

Lebanon is the aggressor. Remember who attacked who.

Lebanon attacked? With what army?

What does Lebanon have to gain out of all this? Have you thought about that? Hezbollah is the terrorist group, not Lebanon. You're getting the two confused.

jamil5454 · Jul 30, 2006, 03:36 PM

Originally Posted by PacHead

And some civilians would die. And then what you do when 2 hours later, another group of Mexicans fires from a different rooftop ? And 30 minutes after that, another group fires from a church ?

PacHead, what's your definition of a terrorist?

Ok, now that you've got it, stop and think. In the course of human history, have people ever fought unprovoked without anything to gain. Hezbollah isn't fighting just for the hell of it. The whole point in capturing the 2 soldiers was to try to get Israel to release a few thousand Palestinian refugees, and Israel exploded into action.

Y3a · Jul 30, 2006, 03:37 PM

Originally Posted by Athens

HA! you get your news from Fox, you might as well make your own news it will prob be more correct.

Whereas YOU get your news straight from Al Jezera, where it's Fair and balanced?

jamil5454 · Jul 30, 2006, 03:38 PM

Originally Posted by Buckaroo

Your full of B.S. You tell nothing but lies.

I'm full of B.S.? I'll bet my sources are better than yours.

Y3a · Jul 30, 2006, 03:39 PM

Originally Posted by Athens

Sniper those on the rooftops?

What a shallow response! So you kill the ones firing the rockets. did you remove a threat? NO. Did you remove the possibility of OTHER TERRORISTS not on the roof, but sleeping in the bunkers UNDER the apartment complex? NO. Thats why you flatten the entire site. You MUST be a liberal as your skills at warfare suck.

jamil5454 · Jul 30, 2006, 03:41 PM

Originally Posted by Buckaroo

B.S. It is 1000% within the grasp of the Lebanesse. They would rather die than do what is right.

Didn't you see those Lebanesse soldiers parading in the streets with those flags. Why aren't they going throught the neighborhoods rounding up the Hazbollahs. They don't care, that is why. They must have some French in them.

Have you been to Lebanon? Know any Lebanese? Know anything about the history of the Middle East or Israel?

Hezbollah is more powerful than Lebanon could be in 100 years, and I've already explained why they haven't been kicked out. If Hezbollah leave, Israel would just initiate another routine invasion into southern Lebanon.

PacHead · Jul 30, 2006, 03:43 PM

Originally Posted by jamil5454

Lebanon attacked? With what army?

What does Lebanon have to gain out of all this? Have you thought about that? Hezbollah is the terrorist group, not Lebanon. You're getting the two confused.

I'm not getting the two confused. Hezbollah is part of the government and the government has sided with Hezbollah in this conflict. Dead Lebanese are solely the fault of Hezbollah which uses them as human shields and yet the Government of Lebanon chooses to side with the terrorists that is responsible for getting Lebanon into the whole mess. Also, the majority of the Lebanese population sides with Hezbollah, and agrees with the initial kidnapping of the soldiers. So Lebanon is in essence bringing this upon themselves. They can back down whenever they please, until that time, Israel should continue mass bombing all terrorist targets in the entire country. Hezbollah was ordered to be disbanded years ago, Lebanon didn't take that too seriously, sucks to be them.

jamil5454 · Jul 30, 2006, 03:48 PM

Originally Posted by Buckaroo

That is stupid. Why would you want every single Lebanesse dead? It that is what it takes to eliminate Hebollah, then that is the way it is going to be. Lebanon will become a desert.

Lebanon can't become a desert. It's entirely mountainous. Way to go there cowboy.

You see, people on the other side of the world are saying the same thing about Israel and the US. If they won't stop the shelling, then "death to America!" if that's how it has to be. Have you ever stopped to think why Hezbollah is contuing to attack Israel?

If a number of people in Austin are suspected of committing theft, do we arrest the whole city just because "that is what it takes"?

I, too, used to have a "KILL 'EM ALL!" approach to world conflicts until it started to involve my family. You obviously don't care about the deaths, which is fine, but don't go around arguing like an ignorant fool.

Athens · Jul 30, 2006, 03:51 PM

Originally Posted by Y3a

What a shallow response! So you kill the ones firing the rockets. did you remove a threat? NO. Did you remove the possibility of OTHER TERRORISTS not on the roof, but sleeping in the bunkers UNDER the apartment complex? NO. Thats why you flatten the entire site. You MUST be a liberal as your skills at warfare suck.

and for every innocent you kill you just create more support and more terrorists.

PacHead · Jul 30, 2006, 03:52 PM

Originally Posted by jamil5454

Have you ever stopped to think why Hezbollah is contuing to attack Israel?

Let me take a wild guess........

Because they're Islamic terrorists that have sworn to wipe out Israel and kill Jews and infidels, that's how they get their jollies. They're also not too bright and in reality they are a bunch of morons for attacking Israel years after Israel left Lebanon. Which is why Israel has been given the green light to conduct their little clean up mission in southern Lebanon, inorder to get rid of the Hezbollah vermin that is crawling around.

PacHead · Jul 30, 2006, 03:53 PM

Originally Posted by Athens

and for every innocent you kill you just create more support and more terrorists.

The US has plenty of bullets. One for each terrorist on the planet, and even more than that, if that's what's needed.

Athens · Jul 30, 2006, 03:54 PM

Originally Posted by jamil5454

Lebanon can't become a desert. It's entirely mountainous. Way to flaunt your ignorance.

You see, people on the other side of the world are saying the same thing about Israel and the US. If they won't stop the shelling, then "death to America!" if that's how it has to be. Have you ever stopped to think why Hezbollah is contuing to attack Israel?

If a number of people in Austin are suspected to possess drugs, do we arrest the whole city because "that is what it takes"?

Never expected to find a Yanki down south that I like

More of a shock some one from Texas

jamil5454 · Jul 30, 2006, 03:56 PM

Originally Posted by PacHead

I'm not getting the two confused. Hezbollah is part of the government and the government has sided with Hezbollah in this conflict. Dead Lebanese are solely the fault of Hezbollah which uses them as human shields and yet the Government of Lebanon chooses to side with the terrorists that is responsible for getting Lebanon into the whole mess. Also, the majority of the Lebanese population sides with Hezbollah, and agrees with the initial kidnapping of the soldiers. So Lebanon is in essence bringing this upon themselves. They can back down whenever they please, until that time, Israel should continue mass bombing all terrorist targets in the entire country. Hezbollah was ordered to be disbanded years ago, Lebanon didn't take that too seriously, sucks to be them.

You act as though the key to peace in the Middle East is for Hezbollah to stop attacking Israel.

I guarantee you, if Hezbollah pulled out, Israel would just invade again and this would start all over. But we in the U.S. would hear a different story due to our biased media, which is basically what has been happening the past 30 or so years.

jamil5454 · Jul 30, 2006, 03:58 PM

Originally Posted by Athens

Never expected to find a Yanki down south that I like

More of a shock some one from Texas

Haha. That's because I'm Lebanese. I'll admit, you guys should have figured it out by now though from my name Jamil.

Normally I don't give a rat's asse about politics and world conflict, but now it involves my country, which I'm very proud of.

PacHead · Jul 30, 2006, 04:04 PM

Originally Posted by jamil5454

I guarantee you, if Hezbollah pulled out, Israel would just invade again and this would start all over.

I would bet against you, because Israel has no desire to occupy Lebanon again. Idiot terrorists were using Lebanon as a terrorist base, that's why Israel invaded to begin with.

PacHead · Jul 30, 2006, 04:05 PM

Originally Posted by jamil5454

Normally I don't give a rat's asse about politics and world conflict, but now it involves my country, which I'm very proud of.

Well your countrymen back home aren't too smart since they're supporting Hezbollah.

jamil5454 · Jul 30, 2006, 04:07 PM

Originally Posted by PacHead

Let me take a wild guess........

Because they're Islamic terrorists that have sworn to wipe out Israel and kill Jews and infidels, that's how they get their jollies. They're also not too bright and in reality they are a bunch of morons for attacking Israel years after Israel left Lebanon. Which is why Israel has been given the green light to conduct their little clean up mission in southern Lebanon, inorder to get rid of the Hezbollah vermin that is crawling around.

Are you serious? I'm beginning to think I'm wasting my time on here. I'm not here to argue, just to educate so you don't sound so ignorant when making your argument.

Is that really what you think? The world is a big place, and people are different, but not THAT different. The Middle East is made up of people just like you and I. If someone in your family was killed or your land taken I'm sure you would fight back too.

And the people in Lebanon think Americans and Israelis are the next Nazis. There's two sides to this, of which you're choosing only to view one.