[Eug Wanker]

Well, just for the time being, but right now Fidel Castro isn't in power:

Cuban leader undergoes surgery after suffering gastrointestinal bleeding

HAVANA — Fidel Castro temporarily relinquished his presidential powers to his brother Raul on Monday night and told Cubans he underwent surgery.

The Cuban leader said he had suffered gastrointestinal bleeding, apparently due to stress from recent public appearances in Argentina and Cuba, according to the letter read live on television by his secretary, Carlos Valenciaga.

“The operation obligates me to undertake several weeks of rest,” the letter read, adding that extreme stress “had provoked in me a sharp intestinal crisis with sustained bleeding that obligated me to undergo a complicated surgical procedure.”

Castro said he was temporarily relinquishing the presidency to his younger brother and successor Raul, the defence minister, but said the move was of “a provisional character.” There was no immediate appearance or statement by Raul Castro.

I guess nobody can last forever... He's 80 years old. Even if he does get back power in a couple of months, I wonder how long he'll really be able to keep control. His health sure isn't cooperating.

[Dakar]

Yeah, who thought he'd last this long.

[IceEnclosure]

The streets of Miami are alive at the moment. I think this is my first post in the PL evar.

[Nicko]

Here's hoping to a quick recovery

[stevesnj]

Originally Posted by Nicko

Here's hoping to a quick recovery

Heres to a slow painful death

[Y3a]

Originally Posted by stevesnj

Heres to a slow painful death

[Dork.]

If it weren't for Castro, the Marlins would likely be playing in Havana right now....

[Kevin]

Castro is pretty harmless right now. What if someone worse takes his place?

[Dakar]

Originally Posted by Nicko

Here's hoping to a quick recovery

WHy is that? Because he's a pebble in the U.S.'s shoe?

[yakkiebah]

Well, i guess some people admire dictators.

[Nicko]

Originally Posted by Dakar

WHy is that? Because he's a pebble in the U.S.'s shoe?

How is Castro a pebble in the US's shoe?

[Dakar]

Originally Posted by Nicko

How is Castro a pebble in the US's shoe?

See: The 60s.
Also: Refugees, Cuban

[Doofy]

[Y3a]

I guess he hasn't been eating enough ground glass.

[Eug Wanker]

Originally Posted by Nicko

Here's hoping to a quick recovery

wdlove reincarnated?

Originally Posted by Kevin

Castro is pretty harmless right now. What if someone worse takes his place?

His bro has a history of being a hard-liner. However, he is supposed to be less hard-line these days, whatever that means. And he's pretty old too...

Interesting little fact... Sizable quantities of good quality oil and natural gas have been discovered just offshore from Cuba, in the last 2 years.

This change in power, if permanent, could give the US a good excuse to change its trade relations with Cuba, especially if the new people in power are given a good incentive to play the moderate card. That would give the US easy access to those fossil fuels, considering it's fairly close to Florida.

[Nicko]

Originally Posted by Eug Wanker

wdlove reincarnated?



His bro has a history of being a hard-liner. However, he is supposed to be less hard-line these days, whatever that means. And he's pretty old too...

Interesting little fact... Sizable quantities of good quality oil and natural gas have been discovered just offshore from Cuba, in the last 2 years.

This change in power, if permanent, could give the US a good excuse to change its trade relations with Cuba, especially if the new people in power are given a good incentive to play the moderate card. That would give the US easy access to those fossil fuels, considering it's fairly close to Florida.

I just saw this movie last night , what can I say?

Hmmm oil eh? Well, Cuba could do what Chavez is doing and sell oil to the chinese (but take a hit with much increased transport costs). Or just sell it to the Yankees for a cheap $100 a barrel.

[Zeeb]

Originally Posted by Kevin

Castro is pretty harmless right now. What if someone worse takes his place?

I heard chatter on some newspage somewhere that the U.S. is somehow trying to figure out how to prevent his brother from assuming power if Castro dies. Anyway, his "younger" brother looks as old as he does.

[Eug Wanker]

Well, apparently, the bulk of the oil is likely in very deep water. The Chinese aren't really equipped for deep sea drilling of that sort. So some of the areas are so far unexplored and thus untapped. The US would be a good fit, both because of their proximity and because they have the technological know-how to get at that oil. That is, if the trade embargo weren't in place.

The Chinese are ALREADY drilling in shallower waters off Cuba though.

P.S. The estimates are something like 5-10 billion barrels of oil. That would put them in the top 20 in the world if proven. It may be significantly lower than that, but nonetheless the potential is there and it's hard for the US to ignore, especially since other countries have already started exploiting it.

[Monique]

Same difference, there would have been a change with free elections; but that would never take place in Cuba.

[Kerrigan]

I have a feeling that the Cubans are too broken spirited, brainwashed, and bitter to elect a moderate (were elections to be held). Like Iraq or Venezuela, they will just elect some populist nutter.

Certainly Cubans in Miami have a strong sense of civic pride, but I wouldn't say that much about the people living Cuba.

[Zeeb]

Originally Posted by Monique

Same difference, there would have been a change with free elections; but that would never take place in Cuba.

Never say never. Enough people in Cuba are unhappy enough to make dangerous trips to Florida every year. If somehow Fidel and his brother lost power peacefully I think there would be a lot of international support for the country.

I've heard Havanna is such a beautiful place, if the embargo and travel restrictions were lifted I bet Cuba would be a huge tourist destination for people in the U.S.--I realize many Europeans go there now. I understand there are many more beautiful examples of historic architecture than there is in the average over-developed tourist hotspot.

[Eug Wanker]

Hmmm... Maybe I should check out Cuba before the American tourist crowd gets a hold of it.

[Zeeb]

Originally Posted by Eug Wanker

Hmmm... Maybe I should check out Cuba before the American tourist crowd gets a hold of it.

That's right, a Starbucks on every corner in Havanna.

[Kerrigan]

Cuban coffee is good but it's too fattening. Like Starbucks.

[Dakar]

Originally Posted by Eug Wanker

Hmmm... Maybe I should check out Cuba before the American tourist crowd gets a hold of it.

Wow, that picture makes me want to kill myself.

[Zeeb]

Originally Posted by Dakar

Wow, that picture makes me want to kill myself.

Why? because you just realize you wear socks with sandals?

[olePigeon]

Originally Posted by Monique

Same difference, there would have been a change with free elections; but that would never take place in Cuba.

Bay of Pigs didn't turn out so well. We can always blame Cuba after the next terrorist attack.

[Dakar]

Originally Posted by Zeeb

Why? because you just realize you wear socks with sandals?

There's something very depressing about that picture.

[mitchell_pgh]

Originally Posted by Zeeb

Never say never. Enough people in Cuba are unhappy enough to make dangerous trips to Florida every year. If somehow Fidel and his brother lost power peacefully I think there would be a lot of international support for the country.

I've heard Havanna is such a beautiful place, if the embargo and travel restrictions were lifted I bet Cuba would be a huge tourist destination for people in the U.S.--I realize many Europeans go there now. I understand there are many more beautiful examples of historic architecture than there is in the average over-developed tourist hotspot.

I agree. I would be VERY interested in visiting Cuba. I think the country is beautiful (from the few photos I've seen) in an early 1960 kind of way. The infrastructure is lacking, and poverty is high, but IMHO, that's what is going to help the country in the long run. I think if they worked with the US to eliminate the embargo, it could really help the area.

[Spliffdaddy]

So Dubya mumbled something about "we're still committed to a free Cuba".

Which is pretty damned impressive to me.

I mean, how many folks are still committed to something after 47 years?

[Y3a]

Castro says he getting better after the surgery, But you know how much those commies lie.
He might already BE DEAD!

[goMac]

Why is everybody freaking out over this like it's a ten cent cheeseburger sale at McDonalds?

[Jawbone54]

Heard a good point...

This could all be a ploy to sniff out enemies who are in opposition to the socialistic government. Castro is actually dancing with Chavez in a nice hotel.

[ironknee]

i predict a sudden amount of 1930's Packard cars for sale on ebay soon

[smacintush]

I heard someone on the radio (I can't remember who) say that if Castro's brother takes over, we can count on Cuba becoming a modern Democracy.

[Eug Wanker]

Why? He was a hardliner in the past. He's apparently mellowed, but he's no Zhao Ziyang.

[ironknee]

if it does become a democracy, does that mean more cubans to the us or more cuban-americans to cuba?

[smacintush]

Originally Posted by Eug Wanker

Why? He was a hardliner in the past. He's apparently mellowed, but he's no Zhao Ziyang.

Well, I think that maybe it pays better to be a hardliner when your brother's in charge.

Anyway, I think it was Dick Morris who said it so take from that what you will. Despite his political sleaziness he has plenty of inside Washington experience and connections, and I can't imagine why he would outright lie about this particular issue though he may be flat out wrong.

Either way, my gut tells me that when Castro goes Cuber will change immensely for the better.

[Gamoe]

Originally Posted by Kerrigan

Certainly Cubans in Miami have a strong sense of civic pride, but I wouldn't say that much about the people living Cuba.

That's why we're going over there to help rebuild and establish a democracy when communism falls.

Originally Posted by smacintush

I heard someone on the radio (I can't remember who) say that if Castro's brother takes over, we can count on Cuba becoming a modern Democracy.

That someone on the radio was either joking or incredibly misinformed (or has his own agenda).

My take: I believe he's dead (or dying or in a coma, etc.) and the Cuban government is covering up, similarly to other oppressive governments which have covered up their leaders death for as long as they could. Government officials have already stated that any further news on Castro's health is a "state secret" and would not be revealed to the public.

I also think the end of communism in Cuba, and the (re-)beginning of democracy is very near. I started a somewhat lengthy thread on this issue elsewhere.

[Ratm]

Originally Posted by Doofy

Love it! I'll make a shirt from it as quickly as humanly possible.

[Kr0nos]

Originally Posted by smacintush

I heard someone on the radio (I can't remember who) say that if Castro's brother takes over, we can count on Cuba becoming a modern Democracy.

I wonder what kind of govt. they would elect?

I just hope Cuba doesn't become another econoliberal plutocracy like most eastern European countries have.

I'm not in favor of dictators or any authority for that matter, but I am sick and tired of capitalism. Maybe the Cubans will come up with something completely new and different.

Regardless, Cuba is one of the places I'm definitely going to visit during my lifetime. Beautiful architecture, scenery, people etc.

[Gamoe]

Originally Posted by Ratm

Love it! I'll make a shirt from it as quickly as humanly possible.

I've got this shirt myself:



ThoseShirts.com sells them.

Che "fans" will tell you that he did not stand for communism and that Fidel purposely put him in a situation were he would be killed (which is true), but regardless he was a bad man whose philosophy was based in hate, and who committed atrocious crimes.

[Kr0nos]

Originally Posted by Gabriel Morales

Che "fans" will tell you that he did not stand for communism and that Fidel purposely put him in a situation were he would be killed (which is true), but regardless he was a bad man who committed atrocious crimes.

I agree that he did some very aweful things (but in comparison to the CIA, for example, his crimes look petty), but ideologically he had quite a few very good ideas.

Again, this doesn't excuse the murders etc.

[Gamoe]

Originally Posted by ironknee

if it does become a democracy, does that mean more cubans to the us or more cuban-americans to cuba?

More people left their homelands to seek work and liberty in Cuba than Cubans left Cuba prior to communism. This constant stream of immigrants from Cuba began only after the communist revolution.

[Gamoe]

Originally Posted by Kr0nos

I agree that he did some very aweful things (but in comparison to the CIA, for example, his crimes look petty), but ideologically he had quite a few very good ideas.

Again, this doesn't excuse the murders etc.

When your ideology involves harvesting hate against a people and needless murder there's something wrong. He was a vicious man. Specifically, I've heard the recount of how he tortured and killed my friend's family member, first by shoving barbed wire into his mouth. My uncle and my father also met him by the way. They both said he gave off a very bad vibe.

[Kr0nos]

Originally Posted by Gabriel Morales

When your ideology involves harvesting hate against a people and needless murder there's something wrong. He was a vicious man. Specifically, I've heard the recount of how he tortured and killed my friend's family member, first by shoving barbed wire into his mouth. My uncle and my father also met him by the way. They both said he gave off a very bad vibe.

I'm very sorry to hear what happened to your friend's family member.

But in all honesty, (from what I've read) Che's ideology didn't involve 'harvesting hate against a people or needless murder', eventhough real life politics (and warfare) involved these sorts of things.

Again, if you want to condemn mass murder, genocide and torture in the Americas, you'd have to start with the CIA and their involvement with fascist dictatorships.

[Gamoe]

Originally Posted by Kr0nos

But in all honesty, (from what I've read) Che's ideology didn't involve 'harvesting hate against a people or needless murder', eventhough real life politics (and warfare) involved these sorts of things.

Take a look at this page. It speaks of what I'm saying. I've read Che's original 1967 Message to the Tricontinental myself and you can't but come up with the conclusion that this wasn't a good man. I quote:

Originally Posted by Che Guevara

Hatred is an element of struggle; relentless hatred of the enemy that impels us over and beyond the natural limitations of man and transforms us into effective, violent, selective, and cold killing machines. Our soldiers must be thus; a people without hatred cannot vanquish a brutal enemy.

Originally Posted by Kr0nos

Again, if you want to condemn mass murder, genocide and torture in the Americas, you'd have to start with the CIA and their involvement with fascist dictatorships.

Well, just as you yourself stated, that doesn't excuse the murders. Supporting one murderer over another makes little sense.

That people look up to "Che's legacy" is rather puzzling. They've romanticized him, made him something he's not. Unlike Castro, he probably actually believed in what he stood for. But his convictions were badly placed. At best I would call him a murderous fool.

If you're looking for a Cuban who has left a true legacy of justice and compassion, look at José Martí. He also fought. He fought to gain Cuba's independence. But instead of hatred he appealed to freedom and necessity.

He maintained during and after the war that he had no quarrel with any Spaniard. He just wanted Cuba's independence. He held no hatred towards anyone, and he had no problem with the Spaniards who decided to stay after the war. In fact, Cuba remained friendly with Spain after the war. He was also a poet, a writer and a lawyer. Look up his writings and books, and you'll see a man much more deserving of admiration.

The legacy we need to follow to make a free and democratic Cuba is José Martí's, not Che's.

[Eug Wanker]

So, where's Raul?

Originally Posted by Kr0nos

I'm very sorry to hear what happened to your friend's family member.

But in all honesty, (from what I've read) Che's ideology didn't involve 'harvesting hate against a people or needless murder', eventhough real life politics (and warfare) involved these sorts of things.

Again, if you want to condemn mass murder, genocide and torture in the Americas, you'd have to start with the CIA and their involvement with fascist dictatorships.

It's convenient to separate ideology and real-life, but there are a LOT of people out there with far less lofty ideals who would never do what he did. I'd rather be governed by the less lofty and more boring than the more lofty and more murderous.

BTW, just because the CIA has some pretty terrible things doesn't make other terrible things OK.

[Monique]

I never understood the facination of people with Cuba. Isn't dirty, not very interesting and nowadays really irrelevant?

[Stradlater]

Castro has died, and his body is lying in state. Mourners have lined up to pay their respects. At the head of the line is Felipe Pérez Roque, Cuba’s forty-one-year-old Foreign Minister, who is often called Felipito. Pérez Roque stands before Castro’s coffin, his head bowed, while Ricardo Alarcón, the president of Cuba’s National Assembly, waits his turn. The minutes drag on; Alarcón becomes impatient and taps Pérez Roque on the shoulder, whispering, “Felipito, what are you waiting for? He’s dead, you know.” Pérez Roque whispers back, “I know he is; I just haven’t figured out how to tell him that.”