[Monique]

These are the women I admire very much. They fought for the right to vote and control their own fecondity.

Now my question is to the conservative men, would you marry and respect a woman that is for the right to vote, wants to work, wants to control her fecondity (birth control, and abortion right), has her own opinions especially if they are the opposite of yours, has her own religion, wants to be a feminist, is for equal pay, equal rights, wants to do more than stay at home, does not want children, wants to have an education be an engineer for example, etc.

[ghporter]

Not everyone knows all of these women, Monique. I'm personally not sure which "Paul" you're talking about... How about full names so we can search 'em out? I have Susan B. Anthony, Elizabeth Cady Stanton and Margaret Sanger. Who's "Paul?"

[Monique]

Originally Posted by ghporter

Not everyone knows all of these women, Monique. I'm personally not sure which "Paul" you're talking about... How about full names so we can search 'em out? I have Susan B. Anthony, Elizabeth Cady Stanton and Margaret Sanger. Who's "Paul?"

Her full name is Alice Paul and she was one of the most important player to get the women the vote in 1920.

[RAILhead]

Why are you so fixated on Conservative men?

[Shaddim]

Originally Posted by Monique

These are the women I admire very much. They fought for the right to vote and control their own fecondity.

Now my question is to the conservative men, would you marry and respect a woman that is for the right to vote, wants to work, wants to control her fecondity (birth control, and abortion right), has her own opinions especially if they are the opposite of yours, has her own religion, wants to be a feminist, is for equal pay, equal rights, wants to do more than stay at home, does not want children, wants to have an education be an engineer for example, etc.

Sure I would, I married 2 of them.

[Monique]

Originally Posted by RAILhead

Why are you so fixated on Conservative men?

Because they are the opposite of me and of freedom as I understood it: freedom of thought, of action, and they do not respect a woman that has her own toughts, that can decide for herself what is the best recourse for her own actions.

I do not see the same problems with liberal men; not that they are all that charming but most of them will defend women's issues like voting, birth control (not for their own selfish needs), women's right to be protected against an abusive spouse, the ERA, and very important to me abortions rights. They do not mocked women because they are intelligent and have their own opinions.

[RAILhead]

You're confusing Conservative and Liberal with arsehole.

Get a grip.

[Spliffdaddy]

While Canada has halfway decent medical care - it seems their mental health programs need some work.

[mojo2]

Originally Posted by Monique

These are the women I admire very much. They fought for the right to vote and control their own fecondity.

Now my question is to the conservative men, would you marry and respect a woman that is for the right to vote, wants to work, wants to control her fecondity (birth control, and abortion right), has her own opinions especially if they are the opposite of yours, has her own religion, wants to be a feminist, is for equal pay, equal rights, wants to do more than stay at home, does not want children, wants to have an education be an engineer for example, etc.

If the circumstances were different I'd ask you out.

[Spliffdaddy]

I called dibs on her years ago.

Take a number, wait your turn.

[mojo2]

Originally Posted by Spliffdaddy

I called dibs on her years ago.

Take a number, wait your turn.

I said IF the circumstances were different. But they aren't different. They are the same. You'd be a lucky man IF she'd have you!

[ghporter]

Originally Posted by Monique

Her full name is Alice Paul and she was one of the most important player to get the women the vote in 1920.

That says something about my education. I was not familiar with Alice's inputs in the issues of the time. I knew Susan B. Anthony, Elizabeth Cady Stanton, and many of the others involved, but not Ms. Paul. Thanks for the information.

[mojo2]

"If it's not Mrs. Paul's, throw it back"

http://www.tvacres.com/admascots_mrs_pauls.htm

[ebuddy]

Originally Posted by Monique

These are the women I admire very much. They fought for the right to vote and control their own fecondity.

Right and you'll recall at that time the interest of "controlling fecundity" meant carrying pregnancies to term and having the babies.

Now my question is to the conservative men, would you marry and respect a woman that is for the right to vote

I can think of several women I've dated who use their right to vote. I appreciate the right to vote and I appreciate women who avail themselves of the political process.

wants to work

wants to control her fecondity (birth control, and abortion right)

Again, you're using "control fecundity" in the exact opposite of your icons before you. You summed it up in your very last sentence.

has her own opinions especially if they are the opposite of yours

I'm married to a Conservative woman who happens to share a great many views with me. This does not however mean that we've not had civil disagreements. A marriage without them is probably an unrealistic expectation, but then much of your OP is void of reality. Most people aren't quite as simplistic and ignorant as you.

has her own religion

Sounds like her religion would be... Herself, but uh yeah sure, whatever trips her trigger.

wants to be a feminist

What does that even mean??? My boss is a woman, my wife is a manager where she works. I'm all for it. If feminism means they'll mow the lawn, fix the mower, change the oil, etc... I'm for it even more!!!

is for equal pay

Statistically, most women do not ask for pay increases as frequently as their male counterpart.

equal rights

They don't have equal rights in Canada yet???

wants to do more than stay at home, does not want children, wants to have an education be an engineer for example, etc.

If I were interested in dating with the desire to have a family, a woman who is dead-set against children might not be the best match, but she'd make an excellent say... Wednesday night date.


I love how the most closed minded individual in this forum is attempting to audit the open mindedness of the Conservative man.

If I were single, I'd hit it and make sure I was the first one out of bed in the morning. OFF TO WORK, YOU KNOW HOW THAT IS. CAN'T GET AHEAD IN THIS WORLD BY SITTING AROUND CUDDLING, SHOWING AFFECTION AND ALL THAT NONSENSE. I'd go back home and pretend the evening never occurred. If she called back, meh... I might respond.

[Kr0nos]

The funny thing is, most women I meat these days aren't very interested in politics, don't (really) want to be treated as equals, and would rather have a wealthy guy 'pay for their lifestyle' so they don't have to work.

[ebuddy]

Originally Posted by Kr0nos

The funny thing is, most women I meat these days aren't very interested in politics, don't (really) want to be treated as equals, and would rather have a wealthy guy 'pay for their lifestyle' so they don't have to work.

[Cody Dawg]

monique

wants to do more than stay at home, does not want children, wants to have an education be an engineer for example, etc.

I'm a stay-at-home mom currently and I love having children. I vote. I have opinions. I also have more than one college degree. I work from home when I am able to and someday will probably return to the workforce.

But, the problem with a lot of homes, monique, is that there are too many women who abandon their children in lieu of their own careers.

My children are first. Their health and welfare and education are my priorities in life ahead of anything else. Anything. My husband respects that about me, also. He knows that he can count on me to make sure that our children are taken care of from morning to night and that they aren't developing amoral ideals or habits that are self-destructive. He knows that if something happens to him that our children are still the #1 priority.

And, having been at home with my children, I can tell you that children do need a lot of guidance - all of the time. Especially when they begin to approach their teen years and adulthood. They can end up doing nothing productive or constructive with their lives because there is no one to guide them or urge them to be productive or constructive. Or their grades fail because there is no one there to continue to push them to strive for excellence instead of mediocrity.

I understand what you're saying, but I disagree with you when you make the comment that "respectable women" choose careers over having children or not working in order to take care of those children (or working TO take care of those children if need be).

[ebuddy]

Originally Posted by Cody Dawg

I'm a stay-at-home mom currently and I love having children. I vote. I have opinions. I also have more than one college degree. I work from home when I am able to and someday will probably return to the workforce.

But, the problem with a lot of homes, monique, is that there are too many women who abandon their children in lieu of their own careers.

My children are first. Their health and welfare and education are my priorities in life ahead of anything else. Anything. My husband respects that about me, also. He knows that he can count on me to make sure that our children are taken care of from morning to night and that they aren't developing amoral ideals or habits that are self-destructive.

I understand what you're saying, but I disagree with you when you make the comment that "respectable women" choose careers over having children or not working in order to take care of those children (or working TO take care of those children if need be).

ATTENTION MONIQUE; When you find a woman like Cody Dawg here for example, you are a truly blessed man. You keep Friday AND Saturday night open for a date with a Cody Dawg!

[Cody Dawg]

Awwww...

eBuddy, that was so sweet.

You really made my day.



I guess I understand what Monique is saying, but I think it's great to be a woman and not a man (and one of the reasons I changed my sig to point that out) and I feel empowered when I make sure that my family is all healthy and well and everyone is on the right track and making the most of their lives.

[Monique]

Originally Posted by Cody Dawg

I'm a stay-at-home mom currently and I love having children. I vote. I have opinions. I also have more than one college degree. I work from home when I am able to and someday will probably return to the workforce.

But, the problem with a lot of homes, monique, is that there are too many women who abandon their children in lieu of their own careers.

My children are first. Their health and welfare and education are my priorities in life ahead of anything else. Anything. My husband respects that about me, also. He knows that he can count on me to make sure that our children are taken care of from morning to night and that they aren't developing amoral ideals or habits that are self-destructive. He knows that if something happens to him that our children are still the #1 priority.

And, having been at home with my children, I can tell you that children do need a lot of guidance - all of the time. Especially when they begin to approach their teen years and adulthood. They can end up doing nothing productive or constructive with their lives because there is no one to guide them or urge them to be productive or constructive. Or their grades fail because there is no one there to continue to push them to strive for excellence instead of mediocrity.

I understand what you're saying, but I disagree with you when you make the comment that "respectable women" choose careers over having children or not working in order to take care of those children (or working TO take care of those children if need be).

That is so special; what about after the children are gone. If your life is focus only on fleeting things; your life is going to be totally empty afterward. Hopefully she has a life beside the children. And what is it going to happen to you after your husband leave you; and are you totally sure of him. No experience in doing anything but changing diapers, cleaning the house; well I wish you good luck; you are going to be a very unhappy person in about 10 years, because you focus your entire life on one thing instead And many women went through severe nervous breakdown after the children leave; and there is no guarantee with children; my sister worked and her daughters are just fine; my mother did not work and we were screwed up because she was extremely unhappy.

But, it is your choice to focus only on one thing in your life but you have to realize that children will leave and you will have 30 years plus to fill in afterward. Good luck.

[Shaddim]

Originally Posted by Monique

That is so special; what about after the children are gone. If your life is focus only on fleeting things; your life is going to be totally empty afterward. Hopefully she has a life beside the children. And what is it going to happen to her after you leave her. No experience in doing anything but changing diapers, cleaning the house; well I wish her good luck; she is going to be a very unhappy person in about 10 years. And many women went through severe nervous breakdown after the children leave; and there is no guarantee with children; my sister worked and her daughters are just fine; my mother did not work and we were screwed up because she was extremely unhappy.

You really need to reread her post.

Cody IS THE MOM. Cody WANTS TO BE WITH HER CHILDREN.

WTF is wrong with you?

[Cody Dawg]

I feel sorry for you, Monique. That story about you and your sister being "screwed up" because your mother was unhappy is sad. I noticed that you didn't mention your father? Where was he while you were growing up? It's very sad that you had an unhappy childhood - I truly mean that. I had a lousy father (and no mother - she died when I was young) and he made me unhappy a lot of the time. I ended up living with my grandparents after a while and they were very happy, so my perspective changed accordingly, thank goodness. I have always been determined to give my own children a different perspective and I hope I have accomplished that.

Monique, I'm not worried about when my children are gone out of the home, to be honest. My life will still be full. My life will change. I will have a lot of time to travel and write and visit friends. I will have less to worry about...and maybe I'll have grandchildren to help with someday.

You have a very warped and sad perspective about motherhood and for that I feel badly for you. It is not likely to change anytime soon, either, because you were raised by a mother who apparently resented being a mother. I enjoy my children - they make me laugh and make me proud every day. I enjoy watching them change little by little into more mature beings and I enjoy their personalities developing - even though one of them is so different that if I didn't know better I would say that he had different parents!

I also enjoy cooking and family dinners and watching movies with them and taking drives and trips with them. We have a lot of fun at the beach and camping and taking walks. Our family has a lot of fun together. We laugh a lot. We also work together to maintain our house. My husband helps a lot on the weekends with cooking or fixing things that need care and when I'm not feeling well, he takes care of housework. He also gives the children their own tasks. Our family is a group effort. Maybe your father wasn't around or helpful with respect to your mother and she had a hard time and was depressed.

Anyway, all I am saying is that some women love being mothers and having children and some women love having a career. You just need to make sure that if you get married that you don't marry a person who really wants children and will resent your not having children. Also, you shouldn't have children if you don't really want them because then you might end up being like your mother and your children will grow up with an unhappy mother as their role model.

Edited to add that while I was writing this my little 2-year old crawled up in bed and said, "Mommy..." and gave me a big hug and a kiss for no reason at all...what is better than that?

[evfish84]

Originally Posted by Monique

That is so special; what about after the children are gone. If your life is focus only on fleeting things; your life is going to be totally empty afterward.

Children are a piece of oneself that will be left after that person passes away to carry on a family or legacy. Forgive me if I'm wrong, but doesn’t that make them the antithesis of "fleeting things"? I would think career and money are both much more ephemeral.

[Cody Dawg]

You can't really take what she's saying for face value because her perception(s) is warped from a lousy childhood apparently. Sounds like she had a hard time and that her mother was not very motherly.

[Monique]

Cody if you are happy with children conversations all day long, cleaning your house, shopping for the family good for you.

My point is forcing a woman to do one way or the other, telling a parent that he or she cannot raise a child properly because he or she is working is stupid and irresponsible. My mother should have been working she would have been happier doing that. My sister was very happy to work and her children turned out just fine. My aunt worked and her children turned out just fine.

There is no magic potion, lots of women were like my mom; they had to stay at home because society told them that they were bad mothers if they did not and many suffered because of it.

You want to stay home, do it. You are extremely lucky to have a husband that earns enough to support the whole family.

Do not forget that many women do not have that luxury, they are not bad mothers because they have to work or want to work, it is probably the best thing for their children.

[ghporter]

Originally Posted by ebuddy

Right and you'll recall at that time the interest of "controlling fecundity" meant carrying pregnancies to term and having the babies.

Wrong. It meant the right to say "NO" and have it stick. That's still something women in America (all three countries in North America) have a problem with. At the time Margaret Sanger was getting arrested, women were dying because they were REQUIRED BY THEIR HUSBANDS to "put out". Frequently, women got pregnant so many times that it litteraly wore them out-or they died in childbirth. Note that bad word: Death. I happened a lot. A 25 year old woman could easily have borne 7 children. And after that, she probably wasn't going to live very long due to the rigors of bearing children without real medical support. "Controlling fecundity" means just that-deciding whether or not to be pregnant, whether it's "whether or not to GET pregnant" or the right to decide that an accident/rape/birth control failure does not constitute a demand that the woman carry that pregnancy.

Originally Posted by ebuddy

They don't have equal rights in Canada yet???

Not until there's not a single person who can ask why she didn't get a job when a man did, and wonder if it was because of her sex.[/QUOTE]

[Doofy]

Originally Posted by Monique

Now my question is to the conservative men

I'm not conservative, but what the hey.

Originally Posted by Monique

would you marry and respect a woman that is for the right to vote

Yes.

Originally Posted by Monique

wants to work

No. Anyone who wants to work is a bit mental if you ask me.

Originally Posted by Monique

wants to control her fecondity (birth control, and abortion right)

No. That would be a joint decision.

Originally Posted by Monique

has her own opinions especially if they are the opposite of yours

No. That'd cause strife.

Originally Posted by Monique

has her own religion

No. That'd cause strife.

Originally Posted by Monique

wants to be a feminist

No.

Originally Posted by Monique

is for equal pay

Equal pay for equal work, sure. But don't expect me to support equal prize money at Wimbledon if the girls are still only doing 3 sets.

Originally Posted by Monique

equal rights

Yep.

Originally Posted by Monique

wants to do more than stay at home

As long as the tennis club membership doesn't cost too much.

Originally Posted by Monique

does not want children

Nope. There must be plenty of mini-mes knocking around in the future in order to out-breed the libs.

Originally Posted by Monique

wants to have an education be an engineer for example, etc.

Nope. She should get herself a hobby. Basketweaving or something.


Fact is Monique, a conservative bloke wouldn't want to marry a lib chick (which is what you're describing) anyways. They'd more likely want to marry a proper woman, like Cody.

[Monique]

Originally Posted by Doofy

I'm not conservative, but what the hey.



Yes.



No. Anyone who wants to work is a bit mental if you ask me.



No. That would be a joint decision.



No. That'd cause strife.



No. That'd cause strife.



No.



Equal pay for equal work, sure. But don't expect me to support equal prize money at Wimbledon if the girls are still only doing 3 sets.



Yep.



As long as the tennis club membership doesn't cost too much.



Nope. There must be plenty of mini-mes knocking around in the future in order to out-breed the libs.



Nope. She should get herself a hobby. Basketweaving or something.


Fact is Monique, a conservative bloke wouldn't want to marry a lib chick (which is what you're describing) anyways. They'd more likely want to marry a proper woman, like Cody.

And a lib chick would want to marry a descent man, not one that wants to dominate her like a child or an employee.

[Doofy]

Originally Posted by Monique

And a lib chick would want to marry a descent man, not one that wants to dominate her like a child or an employee.

A conservative chick wouldn't need to be dominated. You're confusing "dominated" with "compatible".

[evfish84]

Originally Posted by Monique

These are the women I admire very much. They fought for the right to vote and control their own fecondity.

Now my question is to the conservative men, would you marry and respect a woman that is for the right to vote, wants to work, wants to control her fecondity (birth control, and abortion right), has her own opinions especially if they are the opposite of yours, has her own religion, wants to be a feminist, is for equal pay, equal rights, wants to do more than stay at home, does not want children, wants to have an education be an engineer for example, etc.

As Doofy said, these questions are mainly based on life choices that deal with compatibility. For some people, children and religion are big issues, and sharing opinions on them is out of the realm of a conservative-liberal argument. I would not marry a woman who was a different religion or didn’t want children because these ideas are not compatible with my life choices or goals. On the other hand, I am not attracted to women who are not educated, and all of my girlfriends (since I finished high school, at least) have either been in college or had a college degree. I would rather marry a professional or a feminist than a meek individual who has no drive in life. I wouldn’t care if the person even had completely opposite political views as I do – my father is a hardcore republican and my mother is a left-wing democrat, and it didn’t create any amount of strife in my house growing up. If anything, it fosters intelligent discussions at the dinner table when two people can talk about politics without resorting to name-calling.

[Cody Dawg]

monique

Cody if you are happy with children conversations all day long, cleaning your house, shopping for the family good for you.

I have plenty of conversations with adults all day long. However, Monique, I would LOVE to have conversations with children, and only children, all day long - seriously! They have no biases, no prejudices, they are happy and pure. When I take them to the beach or to the park they see other little children and no matter their color they run right up to them and say, "Want to play together?" Or, "Want to be my new friend?" And then they run off and play together. If only adults were like that, right? Remember what Jesus Christ said? He said we must all be like children to get into the kingdom of heaven and He is absolutely correct about that.

My point is forcing a woman to do one way or the other, telling a parent that he or she cannot raise a child properly because he or she is working is stupid and irresponsible. My mother should have been working she would have been happier doing that. My sister was very happy to work and her children turned out just fine. My aunt worked and her children turned out just fine.

Monique, again, you are letting your perspective and experiences color your perception that women are "forced" to do things.

My husband did, as a matter-of-fact, tell me that it was foolish for me to work outside of the home - but he never called me stupid or foolish. He said, "It's foolish to work and have to put our kids into daycare, which we pay several hundred dollars a week for and several thousand dollars a year, plus it puts us into a tax bracket where we pay more in taxes, so what is the point of working? Our children would not be better for it in the end, either." But, if I had demanded it, he would have accepted my decision. The fact is that we came to an agreement that it was not in the best interest of our kids for me to work full-time outside of the home.

There is no magic potion, lots of women were like my mom; they had to stay at home because society told them that they were bad mothers if they did not and many suffered because of it.

Again, this is your family's experience. Yes, things used to be more traditional, but why are you letting the past dictate the present? Now you have the CHOICE to decide what YOU want to do.

You want to stay home, do it. You are extremely lucky to have a husband that earns enough to support the whole family.

Monique, I worked for a long time and I saved my money and invested. I came from a very poor family. I remember having to run my grandparents farm and we only had $600 a month for all of the bills. My clothes came from the Salvation Army or my grandmother sewed them. I started working when I was 13 to pay for dental care and clothes and school needs. Worked in the school cafeteria to pay for school lunches and school books. I didn't buy a class ring because we couldn't afford it and I didn't go on the senior trip for the same reason. I saved my money and bought real estate beginning when I was 21 years old. My husband and I are middle class and we live on a budget and yes, sometimes it's hard. It means budgeting every single thing and not going on fancy vacations. And guess what? I still work from home to earn an income. (I haven't been working this summer because I'm pregnant, though. ) My point is that my husband works very hard to make sure that we have enough money to meet our needs. But, yes, I do acknowledge the fact that I have met and love a wonderful man and am fortunate in that regard.

Do not forget that many women do not have that luxury, they are not bad mothers because they have to work or want to work, it is probably the best thing for their children.

Yes, of course it's the best thing for their children if the alternative is that they starve, Monique.

But, I chose to marry carefully and I chose to marry someone who had the same ideals. He never told me, "Stay home and have kids or else." When we were friends and seeing each other we discussed objectives - most people do - and our objectives were the same. I think most couples sanely discuss what is best for both of them - and what is best for their children.

On the one hand you are saying that I am lucky if my husband is able to be the primary breadwinner...and on the other hand you are saying that other women are unfortunate if they are staying home with their children...

I think you are a little confused, to be honest, and I mean that nicely.

Lastly, Monique, you don't seem to have children. When people have children the focus usually becomes the children: What is best for the children usually trumps what is best for dad and/or mom. As a caring parent, you want to make sure that your children are happy.

When you get to the end of the role as a parent, when your child at last becomes an adult, when you can look at that child and see that he or she is successful personally, socially, and eventually professionally, then there is no better feeling, period. There just isn't.

I think what I'm hearing more than anything else is that you are conflicted about a) Being married and b) Having children.

If you don't want to be married then don't be. And for heaven's sake, don't have any children until you are absolutely SURE you want them.

[Monique]

Again if this is what you want to do great.

It does not changed that women who work are not the devil; they are doing the best they can in the situation they are thrown in.

What do you expect a single mother to do, not work and be on welfare.

What would you do when you daughter comes to you and say that she wants to be an aeronautic engineer and have a family with the man she loves, are you going to tell her that she is a lousy human being and that she should not used the intelligence God gave her because her only job in life should be to be a mother or an engineer that she has to sacrifice one for the other. If she works and be a mother at the same time, that she would be evil and that you will stop loving her. Shouldn't it be her choice to do whatever will fulfill her life and at the same time the life of her children?

[Cody Dawg]

Monique:

I honestly don't know why you're so hostile.

I, and others here, have repeatedly said that it's every woman's decision to do what she wants.

[mojo2]

Originally Posted by MacNStein

WTF is wrong with you?

I think this might be the most uncharacteristically uncharitable comment I've ever seen from you.

[Cody Dawg]

MacNStein sometimes lets 'er rip. (Just be glad you aren't one of his employees.)

[Monique]

Originally Posted by Cody Dawg

But, the problem with a lot of homes, monique, is that there are too many women who abandon their children in lieu of their own careers.

My children are first. Their health and welfare and education are my priorities in life ahead of anything else. Anything. My husband respects that about me, also. He knows that he can count on me to make sure that our children are taken care of from morning to night and that they aren't developing amoral ideals or habits that are self-destructive. He knows that if something happens to him that our children are still the #1 priority.

And, having been at home with my children, I can tell you that children do need a lot of guidance - all of the time.

Comment like women abadonned their children, give me a break; what about daddy staying home.

Working mothers are not evil; and I am hostile because we have been told this since the beginning of time; our only role in life is to produce children and take care of them. What about having society gives us a hand and we can also have a profession. In your above statement you say that if something happens to your husband, if something happens to him wouldn't you have to work and bring your children to a daycare.

[mojo2]

Originally Posted by Cody Dawg

Monique:

I honestly don't know why you're so hostile.

Originally Posted by Cody Dawg

You can't really take what she's saying for face value because her perception(s) is warped from a lousy childhood apparently. Sounds like she had a hard time and that her mother was not very motherly.

I can see how that comment might ruffle someone's feathers even if it might not be meant that way.

[Cody Dawg]

Whatever.

She's the one who came here with a bone to pick about moms who stay at home.

She had a lousy childhood - she said so - and I expressed sympathy. Why is that so bad? Quit making it into something bad.

She has a huge chip on her shoulder to the point where, if she was a friend of mine, I would tell her to seek professional counseling. Why? Because I'd care about my friend and the torture she's putting herself through with "What ifs."

She ignores the fact that I state, repeatedly, that I have had to work my entire life. Things weren't just handed to me on a silver platter. I made choices. Every woman makes choices in her life, period.

To reiterate. Monique: I have also been a single WORKING mother (I am divorced and remarried) and guess what? I still didn't put my child in daycare. I had a girl from college move in and help out with him for room and board. I could pay a daycare $250 a week or I could have a college girl move into the spare room and pay her $100 a week to watch him while I worked. He never had to leave the stability of his home. I worked a day job and I worked from home. Regarding my husband and our situation now, if something happens to my husband he has life insurance, a lot of it, and yes I'd continue to work part-time from home as I always do.

Now I have to go slave over the stove because my tyrant husband is home and I'm making barbequed brisket for supper, with fresh corn-on-the-cob, and broccoli and cheese casserole. Oh, and brownies for dessert.

[hey!_Zeus]

Originally Posted by Spliffdaddy

While Canada has halfway decent medical care - it seems their mental health programs need some work.

They've sent her to Kentucky.

[spacefreak]

Monique is a guy, folks. It was exposed months ago.

[RAILhead]

Monique:

[ebuddy]

Originally Posted by ghporter

Wrong. It meant the right to say "NO" and have it stick. That's still something women in America (all three countries in North America) have a problem with. At the time Margaret Sanger was getting arrested, women were dying because they were REQUIRED BY THEIR HUSBANDS to "put out". Frequently, women got pregnant so many times that it litteraly wore them out-or they died in childbirth. Note that bad word: Death. I happened a lot. A 25 year old woman could easily have borne 7 children. And after that, she probably wasn't going to live very long due to the rigors of bearing children without real medical support. "Controlling fecundity" means just that-deciding whether or not to be pregnant, whether it's "whether or not to GET pregnant" or the right to decide that an accident/rape/birth control failure does not constitute a demand that the woman carry that pregnancy.

I stand corrected. I don't know why I thought this was a concern of the Woman's Christian Temperance Union, but I'm not finding where.

Not until there's not a single person who can ask why she didn't get a job when a man did, and wonder if it was because of her sex.

Hopefully, you're not holding your breath. There's not a single person who can ask why he or she didn't get a job when the opposite sex did, and wonder if it was because of his or her sex.

[ebuddy]

Originally Posted by Monique

Again if this is what you want to do great.

It does not changed that women who work are not the devil; they are doing the best they can in the situation they are thrown in.

What do you expect a single mother to do, not work and be on welfare.

What would you do when you daughter comes to you and say that she wants to be an aeronautic engineer and have a family with the man she loves, are you going to tell her that she is a lousy human being and that she should not used the intelligence God gave her because her only job in life should be to be a mother or an engineer that she has to sacrifice one for the other. If she works and be a mother at the same time, that she would be evil and that you will stop loving her. Shouldn't it be her choice to do whatever will fulfill her life and at the same time the life of her children?

Seriously toots, seek help. It's 2006 and there's a great big wide open world out there. Why are you stuck on suffrage?

[Spliffdaddy]

Originally Posted by spacefreak

Monique is a guy, folks. It was exposed months ago.

****.

Does that mean I'm gay?

[Cody Dawg]

No, it just means that Monique gender-identity crisis problems, apparently.

[stupendousman]

Sanger? She's the women who wanted to keep the heathen black folks from overpopulating her pure white country, wasn't she?

Yeah...some role model there! Her and Adolph must be partying somewhere.

"Birth control: to create a race of thoroughbreds."
—Margaret Sanger, Birth Control Review, November 1921, (vol. V, no. 11); p.2.

"More children from the fit, less from the unfit—that is the chief aim of birth control."
—Margaret Sanger, Birth Control Review, May 1919 (vol. III, no. 5); p.12.

"Knowledge of birth control is essentially moral. Its general, though prudent, practice
must lead to a higher individuality and ultimately to a cleaner race..."
—Margaret Sanger, "Morality and Birth Control." Birth Control Review,
February-March 1918, (vol. II, nos. 2 and 3); p. 14.

"The most successful educational approach to the Negro is through a religious appeal.
We do not want word to go out that we want to exterminate the Negro population,
and the minister is the man who can straighten out that idea if it ever occurs
to any of their more rebellious members."
— Margaret Sanger, letter to Clarence Gamble, Dec. 10,1939. - Sanger manuscripts

"Before eugenists and others who are laboring for racial betterment can succeed,
they must first clear the way for Birth Control. Like the advocates of Birth Control,
the eugenists, for instance, are seeking to assist the race toward the elimination of the unfit.
Both are seeking a single end but they lay emphasis upon different methods. …"
—Margaret Sanger, "Birth Control and Racial Betterment." Birth Control Review,
February 1919, (vol. III, no. 2); p. 11.

"Those least fit to carry on the race are increasing most rapidly. … Funds that should be
used to raise the standard of our civilization are diverted to maintenance of those who
should never have been born."
—Margaret Sanger, Pivot of Civilization, p.279.

"Today, however, civilization has brought sympathy, pity, tenderness …. We
are now in a state where our charities, our compensation acts, our pensions, hospitals,
and even our drainage and sanitary equipment all tend to keep alive the sickly and the weak,
who are allowed to propagate and in turn produce a race of degenerates."
—Margaret Sanger, "Birth Control and Women's Health." Birth Control Review,
December 1917, (vol. I, no. 12); p. 7.

"It now remains for the United States government to set a sensible example to the
world by offering a bonus or a yearly pension to all obviously unfit parents who allow
themselves to be sterilized by harmless and scientific means."
—Margaret Sanger, "The Function of Sterilization." Birth Control Review,
October 1926, (vol. X, no. 10); p. 299.

"I visited hospitals in this city, and found them lacking in the simple and most ordinary
article of decency. No soap, no cod-liver oil …. This has given rise to skin trouble,
and the poor little waifs are a sad, miserable lot. It would be a great kindness to let them
die outright, I believe."
—Margaret Sanger. "Women in Germany." Birth Control Review, January 1921,
(vol. V, no. 1); p. 9.

[Cody Dawg]

WOW!

I learned even more about Sanger - had no idea!

AND, I just HAD to post after a fabulous name like "stupendousman."





That's one of the best IDs ever!

[ebuddy]

Originally Posted by stupendousman

Sanger? She's the women who wanted to keep the heathen black folks from overpopulating her pure white country, wasn't she?

Yeah...some role model there! Her and Adolph must be partying somewhere.

"Birth control: to create a race of thoroughbreds."
—Margaret Sanger, Birth Control Review, November 1921, (vol. V, no. 11); p.2.

"More children from the fit, less from the unfit—that is the chief aim of birth control."
—Margaret Sanger, Birth Control Review, May 1919 (vol. III, no. 5); p.12.

"Knowledge of birth control is essentially moral. Its general, though prudent, practice
must lead to a higher individuality and ultimately to a cleaner race..."
—Margaret Sanger, "Morality and Birth Control." Birth Control Review,
February-March 1918, (vol. II, nos. 2 and 3); p. 14.

"The most successful educational approach to the Negro is through a religious appeal.
We do not want word to go out that we want to exterminate the Negro population,
and the minister is the man who can straighten out that idea if it ever occurs
to any of their more rebellious members."
— Margaret Sanger, letter to Clarence Gamble, Dec. 10,1939. - Sanger manuscripts

"Before eugenists and others who are laboring for racial betterment can succeed,
they must first clear the way for Birth Control. Like the advocates of Birth Control,
the eugenists, for instance, are seeking to assist the race toward the elimination of the unfit.
Both are seeking a single end but they lay emphasis upon different methods. …"
—Margaret Sanger, "Birth Control and Racial Betterment." Birth Control Review,
February 1919, (vol. III, no. 2); p. 11.

"Those least fit to carry on the race are increasing most rapidly. … Funds that should be
used to raise the standard of our civilization are diverted to maintenance of those who
should never have been born."
—Margaret Sanger, Pivot of Civilization, p.279.

"Today, however, civilization has brought sympathy, pity, tenderness …. We
are now in a state where our charities, our compensation acts, our pensions, hospitals,
and even our drainage and sanitary equipment all tend to keep alive the sickly and the weak,
who are allowed to propagate and in turn produce a race of degenerates."
—Margaret Sanger, "Birth Control and Women's Health." Birth Control Review,
December 1917, (vol. I, no. 12); p. 7.

"It now remains for the United States government to set a sensible example to the
world by offering a bonus or a yearly pension to all obviously unfit parents who allow
themselves to be sterilized by harmless and scientific means."
—Margaret Sanger, "The Function of Sterilization." Birth Control Review,
October 1926, (vol. X, no. 10); p. 299.

"I visited hospitals in this city, and found them lacking in the simple and most ordinary
article of decency. No soap, no cod-liver oil …. This has given rise to skin trouble,
and the poor little waifs are a sad, miserable lot. It would be a great kindness to let them
die outright, I believe."
—Margaret Sanger. "Women in Germany." Birth Control Review, January 1921,
(vol. V, no. 1); p. 9.

That's pretty hard-hitting stuff there stupendousman. Are you suggesting that Sanger was overtly racist? I remember the last time I brought this stuff up in an abortion thread. It was a real show-stopper.

You should always conclude real zingers like yours above with; "bye Monique".

[Cody Dawg]

[stupendousman]

Originally Posted by ebuddy

That's pretty hard-hitting stuff there stupendousman. Are you suggesting that Sanger was overtly racist?

Her words speak for themselves. That and her fondness for trying to recruit KKK groups to help her cause. Some forward thinking chick there, huh!?!