[Mithras]

So who killed more people in the Bible -- God, or Satan?


Well, this guy counts two million, thirty-eight thousand, three hundred thity four for God, and in a later analysis, finds Satan responsible for ten.
That's only including specific kills with numbers enumerated -- doesn't count Noah's flood, Sodom & Gomorrah, etc.

So, it turns out it's no contest. God "wins."
Thoughts?

[Pendergast]

That was all fair: in all battle between Good and Evil, there are these few necessary civilian deaths to be accounted.

Your point is useless, you bloody liberal!

;o)

[RAILhead]

And?

[Dark Helmet]

Hmm, you got a pretty good point there Mithras.

[Spliffdaddy]

God gave them life. Don't see any reason He can't take it away.

Nobody survives life. Something's gonna get you.

Besides, I'm sure Islamofascists have killed more than God.

Hell, the Germans did.

[Big Mac]

Yes, God is ultimately responsible for both the good and the bad in the world. In Judaism there is no such thing as an independent Satan or Devil that can be blamed for the negative decrees from above. There is only God, who wounds and heals, punishes and rewards, causes death and eventually restores to life. To believe, as many Christians do, that God only rewards his creation and never punishes it is to render God impotent.

[Doofy]

If Satan hadn't tempted Eve with the apple, nobody would die at all. So Satan gets an indirect kill on everyone who ever lived.

[Big Mac]

But who created the serpent? And who gave humanity the capacity to sin? Adam and Eve chose to obey their evil inclinations by disobeying God; then they compounded their error by not repenting. The serpent was serving a role, giving Adam and his wife a choice - free will. When they failed to choose the right path He set out for them, they were judged accordingly.

[ironknee]

thats 2, 038,354 since god is the ultimate creator

[subego]

Originally Posted by Doofy

If Satan hadn't tempted Eve with the apple, nobody would die at all. So Satan gets an indirect kill on everyone who ever lived.

I don't recall the Snake being in charge of whether Adam and Eve got cast from the garden.

[ebuddy]

I think his multiple articles on Ann Coulter are more interesting.

[Ulrich Kinbote]

Who are the ten Satan iced?

[stevesnj]

...and the Bible is full of true stories?

[subego]

Originally Posted by Ulrich Kinbote

Who are the ten Satan iced?

And if you get whacked by Old Scratch, do they give you a consolation prize?

Like a "Get out of Hell free" card?

[Dakar]

Yeah, but how many of those deaths are pre-NT?

[Spliff]

Are those real kills or kills in UT 2004? If the latter, then Satan got pwned!

I wonder how many of those were headshots.

[- - e r i k - -]

Originally Posted by Dakar

Yeah, but how many of those deaths are pre-NT?

Stop pretending like the old testament doesn't exist.

[badidea]

Originally Posted by Spliffdaddy

Besides, I'm sure Islamofascists have killed more than God.

Hell, the Germans did.

...and you forgot all those ****ing Europeans who later called themselves Americans!

[Dakar]

Originally Posted by - - e r i k - -

Stop pretending like the old testament doesn't exist.

Meh, it's worth looking at. What do you think of a god who starts off scoring strong in the first half, but fades in the second?

[Shaddim]

Originally Posted by Big Mac

But who created the serpent? And who gave humanity the capacity to sin? Adam and Eve chose to obey their evil inclinations by disobeying God; then they compounded their error by not repenting. The serpent was serving a role, giving Adam and his wife a choice - free will. When they failed to choose the right path He set out for them, they were judged accordingly.

God placed the tree there. God knew they would be tempted. God knew they'd eat it. That they chose "knowledge" before "life" is where the actual problem lies.

The tree and it's fruit (and the whole "garden" for that matter) are a metaphor for the emergence of free will and true self-awareness. It tells how we all come to a certain point where we start making our own conscious choices. It's the moment in our lives when our innocence is lost, when we start to believe that doing certain things is wrong or "sinful". For Chirstians, it's tied to the "age of accountability", which varies from person to person.

[Shaddim]

Originally Posted by subego

I don't recall the Snake being in charge of whether Adam and Eve got cast from the garden.

He presented the choice, it's his job.

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by Dark Helmet

Hmm, you got a pretty good point there Mithras.

No, actually he doesn't

This is akin to one of your troll posts.

It's simply one thing to not be religious or believe in God. And another to be hateful and biggoted towards those that do.

The latter tells us that do believe that you still aren't convinced and lash out insecurly to convince yourself.

Of course no one that is doing this would ever admit to it. That would go against them being insecure.

Admitting such a thing would make them secure with their beliefs.

These threads are posted for no other reason than to convince those that post them.

Of course when anyone says that you get a bunch of denial. But it's obvious.

Just like I am sure Fred Phelps is probably really gay.

[Shaddim]

Originally Posted by - - e r i k - -

Stop pretending like the old testament doesn't exist.

However, most people don't have a clue about how to read it. Randomly quoting the OT has no meaning at all.

[smacintush]

Originally Posted by Kevin

No, actually he doesn't

This is akin to one of your troll posts.

It's simply one thing to not be religious or believe in God. And another to be hateful and biggoted towards those that do.

The latter tells us that do believe that you still aren't convinced and lash out insecurly to convince yourself.

Of course no one that is doing this would ever admit to it. That would go against them being insecure.

Admitting such a thing would make them secure with their beliefs.

These threads are posted for no other reason than to convince those that post them.

Of course when anyone says that you get a bunch of denial. But it's obvious.

Just like I am sure Fred Phelps is probably really gay.

Oh look, Kevin is projecting his own insecurities about his faith onto others again!

You sure come across as doing exactly what you so often accuse others of doing.

[smacintush]

Originally Posted by Mithras

So who killed more people in the Bible -- God, or Satan?…So, it turns out it's no contest. God "wins."
Thoughts?

Only a quote:

You wanna make an omelet, you gotta break a few eggs…

- God

[voodoo]

Satellite. Automatic Tracking Antenna. (SATAN)

I've also seen SatAn sattillite dishes here in Alicante. One on top of Castillo de Sta. Barbara.

It has a SatAn logo and everything. I wonder what company makes them..

V

[evfish84]

Originally Posted by MacNStein

However, most people don't have a clue about how to read it. Randomly quoting the OT has no meaning at all.

In all seriousness, how is one supposed to read the OT?

[ebuddy]

Originally Posted by smacintush

Oh look, Kevin is projecting his own insecurities about his faith onto others again!

You sure come across as doing exactly what you so often accuse others of doing.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but it seemed to me Kevin thought; "why is not believing enough?" I sometimes wonder the same thing. Why is it necessary to proselytize one's unbelief?

You don't see Christians posting; "The way to Heaven" and "Jesus Saves" why should Christians have to endure "This is why Christianity is stupid" and "God is Evil!"?

As I told another poster in ending our conversation in that thread, enlightenment is the acknowledgement of diversity. This is tolerance in knowing that others may not think like you and that your differences do not qualify you to insult others. In many cases, I hear Christians saying the same things in refutation to posts like these. They stem from a severe misunderstanding of Scripture. If it were posted as an honest question, it may have received some honest answers, but you and I both know the post was not crafted in genuine curiosity. Does this make Kevin's defensive posture any worse than the OP? If not, then why did you single Kevin out?

[smacintush]

Originally Posted by ebuddy

Correct me if I'm wrong, but it seemed to me Kevin thought; "why is not believing enough?" I sometimes wonder the same thing. Why is it necessary to proselytize one's unbelief?

ok…

You don't see Christians posting; "The way to Heaven" and "Jesus Saves"

So what's your point?

why should Christians have to endure "This is why Christianity is stupid" and "God is Evil!"?

They don't have to endure anything, they could ignore these threads.

If it were posted as an honest question, it may have received some honest answers, but you and I both know the post was not crafted in genuine curiosity. Does this make Kevin's defensive posture any worse than the OP? If not, then why did you single Kevin out?

You're right, I know that this thread was not posted as an honest question, and I have no problem with people pointing that out. My problem is that Kevin always makes his insecurity accusation, and he is full of sh*t in this regard. There are certainly non-believers who are insecure, just as there are Christians who are insecure, but he throws out the "insecurity blanket" and tries to fit all of us under it.

[Mithras]

Originally Posted by smacintush

Only a quote:

Originally Posted by God

You wanna make an omelet, you gotta break a few eggs…

Or, as they say in the Mideast:

You can't get hummus without mashing some chickpeas

[Shaddim]

Originally Posted by evfish84

In all seriousness, how is one supposed to read the OT?

Thanks for asking.

http://www.kolel.org/pages/5764/ekev.html

It's studied on 4 levels, the literal interpretation being only 1/4 of the information contained in a text. Further, there's the importance of the numerical values attributed to each letter and word, which is lost when translated... and that's only scratching the surface.

When most people read scripture they get only a mere fraction of what is actually written, and what they do manage to gleen is largely misunderstood because it's taken out of context.

[Dakar]

yikey schnikes

[Ulrich Kinbote]

Originally Posted by MacNStein

The tree and it's fruit (and the whole "garden" for that matter) are a metaphor for the emergence of free will and true self-awareness.

Kinda like the black monolith in Space Odyssey 2001?

[BlueSky]

I suppose one could posit that neither God or Satan ever killed anyone, but rather men attributed vengeance and wrath to these two "entities" as an extension of their guilt, insecurity and commitment to fairy tales and superstition.

But c'mon... that would be ridiculous.

[kick52]

Originally Posted by Spliff

Are those real kills or kills in UT 2004? If the latter, then Satan got pwned!

I wonder how many of those were headshots.

*Shot* Headshot! *Shot* Multikill! *Shot* Ultrakill! *Shot* MONSTERKILL!!!!!!!!!!!

[Chuckit]

Satan is a noob.

[evfish84]

Originally Posted by MacNStein

Thanks for asking.

http://www.kolel.org/pages/5764/ekev.html

It's studied on 4 levels, the literal interpretation being only 1/4 of the information contained in a text. Further, there's the importance of the numerical values attributed to each letter and word, which is lost when translated... and that's only scratching the surface.

When most people read scripture they get only a mere fraction of what is actually written, and what they do manage to gleen is largely misunderstood because it's taken out of context.

I undestand that Jews view only the OT as the Bible. What about Christians? How do they see it? From what I've seen, they seem to consider it as completely secondary to the NT, if they don't dismiss it outright.

[Shaddim]

Originally Posted by BlueSky

I suppose one could posit that neither God or Satan ever killed anyone, but rather men attributed vengeance and wrath to these two "entities" as an extension of their guilt, insecurity and commitment to fairy tales and superstition.

But c'mon... that would be ridiculous.

Or, a person could say, "as above, so below".

You've shaped your reality to not include God, and created your own "fairy tales".

[Monique]

If you are talking about the Bible; the far right Christian God killed far more people. He does not seem to like human beings too much.

If you are talking about human beings, well they have little to do with God and Satan it is about personal choices.

[ironknee]

christians and the old testiment is akin to white teenage rock and roll fans who love white rockers but dismiss the roots of the music to black musicians

[Millennium]

Originally Posted by evfish84

I undestand that Jews view only the OT as the Bible. What about Christians? How do they see it? From what I've seen, they seem to consider it as completely secondary to the NT, if they don't dismiss it outright.

It depends on the exact sect. However, when dealing with the OT versus the NT, one important thing to remember is that the NT was written in Greek, not Hebrew.

The thing about ancient Hebrew (and modern, for that matter) is that the letters are also numbers. When scrolls were written down, rabbis and scribes would analyze the numbers in the new scrolls as compared to existing copies, to help ensure that the new scrolls had been faithfully copied. In this sense, it functioned very much like what we would call a checksum today: a numerical check to ensure the copy's integrity. It had its weaknesses (for example, the words for "Messiah" and "Serpent" work out to the same number) but the same is true for all checksum algorithms. Some people believe that the numbers in the Old Testament also have special hidden meanings, but not everyone does.

But anyway, back to my point: Greek doesn't do that, nor do most languages. Certainly other languages have ways of writing numbers, but most do not reuse their alphabets for that purpose in the way that Hebrew does. So whether or not you ascribe any special meaning to the numerology of Old Testament Hebrew, it's definitely not there for New Testament Greek.

[Millennium]

Originally Posted by smacintush

They don't have to endure anything, they could ignore these threads.

Likewise, non-Christians could ignore proselytizing threads, yet many don't. Why not? What makes unbelievers who fail to ignore evangelism -attacks on their non-belief, so to speak- any different from Christians who fail to ignore attacks on their belief?

Or is it, perhaps, that it's not as simple as just ignoring things one dislikes?

[ironknee]

Originally Posted by Kevin

No, actually he doesn't

This is akin to one of your troll posts.

It's simply one thing to not be religious or believe in God. And another to be hateful and biggoted towards those that do.

The latter tells us that do believe that you still aren't convinced and lash out insecurly to convince yourself.

Of course no one that is doing this would ever admit to it. That would go against them being insecure.

Admitting such a thing would make them secure with their beliefs.

These threads are posted for no other reason than to convince those that post them.

Of course when anyone says that you get a bunch of denial. But it's obvious.

Just like I am sure Fred Phelps is probably really gay.

reading a kevin post is like reading paul theroux.

[Zeeb]

Originally Posted by Millennium

Likewise, non-Christians could ignore proselytizing threads, yet many don't. Why not? What makes unbelievers who fail to ignore evangelism -attacks on their non-belief, so to speak- any different from Christians who fail to ignore attacks on their belief?

Or is it, perhaps, that it's not as simple as just ignoring things one dislikes?

The problem is what constitutes an "attack"? It seems like merely the questioning of belief leads many faithful people to believe they have been attacked personally. If we avoided attacks, then religion couldn't be discussed at all right?

I agree that people should not mock individuals who have faith, but the idea of Christianity itself seems fair game to me. There is a difference between someone saying, "Christianity is stupid" and "John is stupid for believing that".

[Shaddim]

Originally Posted by Zeeb

I agree that people should not mock individuals who have faith, but the idea of Christianity itself seems fair game to me. There is a difference between someone saying, "Christianity is stupid" and "John is stupid for believing that".

It's the disrespect that bothers most religious people, not the questioning.

[Gossamer]

Originally Posted by Chuckit

Satan is a noob.

That made me laugh

[voodoo]

There!

http://www.kathrein.de/ <-- homepage of SatAn.. silly Germans.

V

[Gossamer]

Satan, what a n00b.

[Spliff]

Originally Posted by ironknee

reading a kevin post is like reading paul theroux.

In what way? Paul Theroux is much crankier and more literary than Kevin.

[D. S. Troyer]

"Who killed more people in the Bible? God, or Satan?"

I once killed someone with a bible. Clobbered him over the head. Poor bastard. But I expect God had pity on him for dying by the bible.

How many peeps did the Jooz kill?