[Cody Dawg]

So, this week Nagin made some really nasty comments about the World Trade Center and NYC which was in very poor taste:

"You guys in New York can’t get a hole in the ground fixed and it’s five years later."

What an @ss to say something like that, you know?

Heck, that guy is REALLY responsible for the fact that he didn't get the city buses organized to get people out of New Orleans when Katrina hit - that's on his own shoulders - yet he's always the first one to point out someone else's fault.

Now we see that hurricane Ernesto may be going to Louisiana later next week.

Is this karma or what?

[NYCFarmboy]

well as a resident of NYC it doesn't offend me about what he said..

....so many groups have their fingers in the pie that nothing can get done for fear of offending anyone.... I ride my bike by there every day and have for years... its sad that 5 years later nothing is happening.

Its all sides doing it... the antiWTC folks who never liked the trade center in the first place are doing all they can to make it "community compatible"..i.e. basicaly a big park...... the real estate magnets of NYC are content to let it sit idle to keep rents high elsewhere in the city.

[SpaceMonkey]

He said it in response to a reporter's criticism that New Orleans is taking a long time to rebuild. I think Nagin has a fair point.

[pooka]

Originally Posted by SpaceMonkey

He said it in response to a reporter's criticism that New Orleans is taking a long time to rebuild. I think Nagin has a fair point.

Not really. The lack of office space where the WTC used to stand is not crippling the city of New York in the least. N.O. has some serious ****ing problems and the current strategy of throwing some paint on a few buildings and plastering billboards around the region with "Come on back, it'll get better" doesn't appear to be working.

[gururafiki]

Bureaucracy probably has something to do with the slow rebuilding efforts of both N.O. and the WTC.

[ghporter]

Mr. Nagin has proved, yet again, that the people of New Orleans can really pick 'em. Of course what they picked was a jerk who did not stand up to his governor when Katrina was bearing down on NO, who did not order his own evacuation, did not prevent the NOPD from violating the rights of EVERY citizen that couldn't evacuate, and then blamed it all on the Federal Government (which couldn't act without either the governor's OK or a disaster declaration from the president-which came very quickly afterward). Nagin also did nothing to ensure that his police force didn't loot and pillage themselves (remember the video of the two female cops picking out fancy shoes in the midst of a looter filled store?), nor that they provided enough credible security to the shelters so that bad things didn't happen-or if they really didn't (the jury's out on some of it) that people would believe that.

There were some NOPD that were really on the job and dedicated, but Mr. Nagin's not responsible for that-these cops were stand up folks.

Nagin's city government moved forward on demolition of homes without even trying to contact the owners. Nagin's city government refused to let volunteer utility crews into the areas that could have been restored to livability quickest because these were not Nagin's political power base. I'm getting mad typing this so I'm going to stop.

And on top of all this, while New Orleans was the most visible victim of Katrina, Nagin's actions (or lack of actions) have stolen national and international attention from the Mississippi Gulf Coast where far more people were made homeless than in New Orleans. It's only slowly getting better there, by the way, and it's because the residents and the local governments are making it happen-without the high school sophmore drama that is still New Orleans.

But other than that, I have no opinion, really.

[Cody Dawg]

^^^

Mr. Nagin has proved, yet again, that the people of New Orleans can really pick 'em. Of course what they picked was a jerk who did not stand up to his governor when Katrina was bearing down on NO, who did not order his own evacuation, did not prevent the NOPD from violating the rights of EVERY citizen that couldn't evacuate, and then blamed it all on the Federal Government (which couldn't act without either the governor's OK or a disaster declaration from the president-which came very quickly afterward). Nagin also did nothing to ensure that his police force didn't loot and pillage themselves (remember the video of the two female cops picking out fancy shoes in the midst of a looter filled store?), nor that they provided enough credible security to the shelters so that bad things didn't happen-or if they really didn't (the jury's out on some of it) that people would believe that.

There were some NOPD that were really on the job and dedicated, but Mr. Nagin's not responsible for that-these cops were stand up folks.

Nagin's city government moved forward on demolition of homes without even trying to contact the owners. Nagin's city government refused to let volunteer utility crews into the areas that could have been restored to livability quickest because these were not Nagin's political power base. I'm getting mad typing this so I'm going to stop.

And on top of all this, while New Orleans was the most visible victim of Katrina, Nagin's actions (or lack of actions) have stolen national and international attention from the Mississippi Gulf Coast where far more people were made homeless than in New Orleans. It's only slowly getting better there, by the way, and it's because the residents and the local governments are making it happen-without the high school sophmore drama that is still New Orleans.

But other than that, I have no opinion, really.

W00T!

[ebuddy]

Originally Posted by ghporter

Mr. Nagin has proved, yet again, that the people of New Orleans can really pick 'em. Of course what they picked was a jerk who did not stand up to his governor when Katrina was bearing down on NO, who did not order his own evacuation, did not prevent the NOPD from violating the rights of EVERY citizen that couldn't evacuate, and then blamed it all on the Federal Government (which couldn't act without either the governor's OK or a disaster declaration from the president-which came very quickly afterward). Nagin also did nothing to ensure that his police force didn't loot and pillage themselves (remember the video of the two female cops picking out fancy shoes in the midst of a looter filled store?), nor that they provided enough credible security to the shelters so that bad things didn't happen-or if they really didn't (the jury's out on some of it) that people would believe that.

There were some NOPD that were really on the job and dedicated, but Mr. Nagin's not responsible for that-these cops were stand up folks.

Nagin's city government moved forward on demolition of homes without even trying to contact the owners. Nagin's city government refused to let volunteer utility crews into the areas that could have been restored to livability quickest because these were not Nagin's political power base. I'm getting mad typing this so I'm going to stop.

And on top of all this, while New Orleans was the most visible victim of Katrina, Nagin's actions (or lack of actions) have stolen national and international attention from the Mississippi Gulf Coast where far more people were made homeless than in New Orleans. It's only slowly getting better there, by the way, and it's because the residents and the local governments are making it happen-without the high school sophmore drama that is still New Orleans.

But other than that, I have no opinion, really.

I can tell you're pretty much indifferent to the subject matter.

On top of what you've mentioned, New Orleans conducted a mock "evac" for just this purpose approximately 8 months prior to Katrina. The result? Failure. Two of the primary failure points was not getting busses on line quickly enough and not having adequate shelter for those unable to leave. This, coupled with the fact that as you watched the news account of evacuation on television you clearly saw a full highway of traffic out-bound and not so much as one vehicle on the highway in-bound. Now, I'm no civil engineer, but could they not have done something completely unheard of? Yeah, you guessed it, open both to out-bound traffic. You know, only for the country's worst disasters. Open up at least two of the four lanes of in-bound for out-bound traffic. I couldn't believe my eyes.

They rolled like this -->

[ebuddy]

I've heard mention that they ought to leave the new WTC project to Trump. Now, regardless of what you might think of Trump, the project would've been complete by now.

I wonder if maybe he was already approached and the City didn't like the idea of it being called 'Trump's Center of World Trade'.

[Montezuma58]

Originally Posted by ebuddy

This, coupled with the fact that as you watched the news account of evacuation on television you clearly saw a full highway of traffic out-bound and not so much as one vehicle on the highway in-bound. Now, I'm no civil engineer, but could they not have done something completely unheard of? Yeah, you guessed it, open both to out-bound traffic. You know, only for the country's worst disasters. Open up at least two of the four lanes of in-bound for out-bound traffic. I couldn't believe my eyes.

They rolled like this -->

I noticed that too. In Alabama they've made all lanes of I-65 north bound during hurricane evacuations several times before Katrina. You've got to realize your government is pretty shitty if it's dumber than Alabama's.

[Jawbone54]

As a citizen of Louisiana, I get embarrassed when I see Nagin on TV. Southern Louisiana politics as a whole are entirely corrupt, with finger-pointing aimed in every direction with one hand while the other hand pockets a few hundred grand. Louisiana has (by far) the most former state officials in prison. Northern Louisiana residents (like myself) look towards the south with disdain and embarrassment.

Nagin is just another southern Louisiana politician. What people from other states don't realize about Nagin is that there is NO ONE any better in LA. Every politician in the southern half of the state is just as bad for different reasons. This last election it came between Nagin and our Lt. Governor, Mitch Landrieu. The Landrieu family (and his sister, Mary, included) have a long-standing reputation of corruption. He talked smoothly in television debates, but the man is just as despicable as Nagin.

Nagin's assertation that the federal government is either racist or extends preferential treatment to upper and middle class people during a crisis is unfounded. Someone else in this thread said it best when they said it's just another instance of Nagin pointing the finger at someone else when it was indeed his (and our governor's) responsibility to call in federal aid, which they did not do promptly enough. The fleet of buses sitting in water is one of the lasting images of Katrina. It was HIS responsibility to help evacuate the lower class citizens who did not have a means of escape. FEMA was supposed to do what they could, but it was not their city. It was Nagin's city.

Many in Louisiana are embarrassed.

[Cody Dawg]

Jawbone54

Someone else in this thread said it best when they said it's just another instance of Nagin pointing the finger at someone else when it was indeed his (and our governor's) responsibility to call in federal aid, which they did not do promptly enough. The fleet of buses sitting in water is one of the lasting images of Katrina. It was HIS responsibility to help evacuate the lower class citizens who did not have a means of escape. FEMA was supposed to do what they could, but it was not their city. It was Nagin's city.

Uh, that would be me:

Heck, that guy is REALLY responsible for the fact that he didn't get the city buses organized to get people out of New Orleans when Katrina hit - that's on his own shoulders - yet he's always the first one to point out someone else's fault.

Yes, I agree. You know what's sad, Jawbone54? It's that Louisiana is a beautiful place with so much history and culture that is indigenous to the area. I started work on a dissertation and part of it focused on Southern Women's literature - and how irrelevant race was around the turn of the century (early 1900s) - and I chose to discuss some literature about Louisiana in the pieces that I selected.

I think it's disgusting that New Orleans and Louisiana were devastated by lack of foresight. Those politicians there are so busy politicking that they forgot that they're supposed to be taking care of the city and state and not their own best interests.

At any rate, what I find remarkable about Nagin is that he has the gall to criticize another mayor or city! How dare he do such a thing from not only a political standpoint, but from a decency standpoint.

That's why he's an @ss, plain and simple.

Meanwhile, Ernesto is going to hit Florida, so lets so how we stand up to the pressure. I'm bummed...I was hoping to get through a year without a freaking hurricane. This will make our third year in a row to have a hurricane come at us. First year was Frances and Jeanne and we lost our cars and our roof. Last year was Wilma and lost the central air and had a flood. This year looks like it may be Ernesto - I just hope it peters out as it passes over Cuba.

[Sky Captain]

Parts of Homestead are still destroyed. Desolate.
It took years for them to rebuild.
I have a cousin that bought a few of the destroyed homes and fixed them.

[mitchell_pgh]

Just look at Washington DC if you want to appreciate just how horrible a mayor can be.

Marion Barry - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

He was the mayor in DC for 12 years... and was arrested. AFTER being placed in jail for six months... he was elected to the city council and ultimately ended up being the mayor once again!!!

To this day, he is STILL an elected official of DC... even AFTER being convicted of failing to pay federal and local taxes AND testing positive for cocaine and marijuana usage in October of 2005!

Needless to say, I have little faith in local mayors.

[Cody Dawg]

OH YEAH.

The druggie who runs D.C.?



Who is electing that guy? Seriously? WHO?

[JoshKurtz]

Originally Posted by Cody Dawg

OH YEAH.

The druggie who runs D.C.?



Who is electing that guy? Seriously? WHO?

When he was caught smoking crack his response to the press was, "The bitch set me up."

Whatta guy.

[Zeeb]

Originally Posted by pooka

Not really. The lack of office space where the WTC used to stand is not crippling the city of New York in the least. N.O. has some serious ****ing problems and the current strategy of throwing some paint on a few buildings and plastering billboards around the region with "Come on back, it'll get better" doesn't appear to be working.

There is a huge difference between rebuilding a relatively small section of New York and just about the entire city of New Orleans. After 9/11 we still had our infrastructure and most of our resources available to us. New Orleans lost everything and to criticize the mayor for not bringing it all back in a year is unfair.

I'm a New Yorker as well and what he said didn't offend me either. He was just pointing out that people shouldn't criticize him and his government for the progess in N.O. when New York can't cut through its own bureacracy to get a few buildings built.

[turtle777]

Originally Posted by SpaceMonkey

I think Nagin has a fair point.

Yes. His point was: Look, world, I'm a moron !

-t

[Cody Dawg]

Nagin cost people their lives. Yes, people would have died anyway, but the fact that he didn't use all of the buses - whose drivers were waiting orders from him to pack people in and leave - to get people out and those people then died makes him guilty of deaths of innocent people.

Instead, he blames it on Bush.

[Spliffdaddy]

I think some of you are being a bit judgmental. Nagin said he wanted a chocolate city - and chocolate cities take a long time to rebuild.

[Cody Dawg]

^^^ Spliff ^^^ you're very funny...

[pooka]

Originally Posted by Zeeb

There is a huge difference between rebuilding a relatively small section of New York and just about the entire city of New Orleans. After 9/11 we still had our infrastructure and most of our resources available to us. New Orleans lost everything and to criticize the mayor for not bringing it all back in a year is unfair.

I'm a New Yorker as well and what he said didn't offend me either. He was just pointing out that people shouldn't criticize him and his government for the progess in N.O. when New York can't cut through its own bureacracy to get a few buildings built.

Nothing he's ever said has offended me. But I think people should criticize him and every level of government involved in the rebuilding efforts. I'm not a native resident of Louisiana but I'm in N.O. every week and about the only thing these politicians seem to be good at is moving stacks of money from one pile to another... and like magic... 20% disappears each shuffle.

[Dakar]

Originally Posted by Cody Dawg

Now we see that hurricane Ernesto may be going to Louisiana later next week.

Is this karma or what?

Not unless you think karma will punish a bunch of innocent bystanders for one idiot's statement.

[Spliffdaddy]

No, but karma might punish the folks who re-elected that idiot.

[Dakar]

Originally Posted by Spliffdaddy

No, but karma might punish the folks who re-elected that idiot.

Well, we'll see how that damage divides among party lines then.

[Spliffdaddy]

Mayor To Feds: “Get Off Your Asses” (they're waiting for *you*, mayor)

Nagin Makes “Chocolate City” Comments (claims God wants it that way)

Nagin Apologizes For “Chocolate City” Comments (well, not an apology, but white milk + chocolate = something)

Nagin Oversees Katrina Commemoration Party (city wiped out? Don't have a rebuilding plan? makes sense to kick back and have a party)

Nagin Blames Racism for Slow Katrina Recovery (his own racisim? nope.)

Nagin Refers To Site Of 9/11 Terror Attacks As Hole In The Ground

Nagin apologizes for comment



Did I leave anything out?

[iranfromthezoo]

nagin makes the country focus to much on new orleans when Mississippi got the brunt of the storm...but wait it's a bunch of white rednecks who most knew to get out and don't draw a gov't check and rely completely on the gov't to bail them out at every instance. now they are pretty much a lot farther than new orleans and a lot better off....without much federal gov't assistance...why??? Because they can't get it...and they don't have time to sit and wait for nothing to happen.

[Cody Dawg]

Spliff, you're flippin' hilarious.

[Jawbone54]

I've driven through Biloxi (which was hit much harder than New Orleans) several times since Katrina. Even though there's still a lot of damage to the trees and such, I'm always amazed at how much they've been able to do in such a short time. New Orleans, on the other hand...

I understand that it's a larger city, but knowing Louisiana politics, much of the federal money was pocketed in some way by the Southern LA officials. Biloxi, on the other hand, has worked its butt off to build itself back up. I commend them for that.

[DBursey]

Hard to believe that Americans place so much responsibility / culpability on a municipal level of government after a disaster of such scale.

As an aside, I'll opine generally that it's no wonder Americans are so down on their political and civil institutions ... all of which seem generally to be run incompetently based on their recent performances in times of strife. The irony of having the Canadian RCMP and HUSAR forces react more swiftly to Katrina than either FEMA or the Nat'l Guard in deploying to New Orleans should alternately boggle and humble the American mind.

edit: cursed acronyms

[Jawbone54]

Originally Posted by DBursey

Hard to believe that Americans place so much responsibility / culpability on a municipal level of government after a disaster of such scale.

As an aside, I'll opine generally that it's no wonder Americans are so down on their political and civil institutions ... all of which seem generally to be run incompetently based on their recent performances in times of strife. The irony of having the Canadian RCMP and HUSAR forces react more swiftly to Katrina than either FEMA or the Nat'l Guard in deploying to New Orleans should alternately boggle and humble the American mind.

edit: cursed acronyms

:gag:

[Spliffdaddy]

The difference between Mississippi and Lousiana - as far as rebuilding goes - is the fact that Democrats are in charge of Lousiana.

And really, why should New Orleans be rebuilt? Where's the outcry from the evironmentalists? 90 square miles of wetlands have been reclaimed by nature...and *man* wants to take it back.

[Jawbone54]

Originally Posted by Spliffdaddy

And really, why should New Orleans be rebuilt?

So that people can urinate in the streets in a drunken stupor and exposed teenage breasts will once again be available for public viewing every 20 feet or so as a brightly-designed float passes by.

[Spliffdaddy]

Originally Posted by Jawbone54

So that people can urinate in the streets in a drunken stupor and exposed teenage breasts will once again be available for public viewing every 20 feet or so as a brightly-designed float passes by.

Good point.

I say we donate $3 trillion to the rebuilding effort. Boobies are priceless.

[DBursey]

LOL ... build a replica in Vegas and pocket the change.

[DBursey]

Originally Posted by Spliffdaddy

The difference between Mississippi and Lousiana - as far as rebuilding goes - is the fact that Democrats are in charge of Lousiana.

And really, why should New Orleans be rebuilt? Where's the outcry from the evironmentalists? 90 square miles of wetlands have been reclaimed by nature...and *man* wants to take it back.

The irony is that rebuilding the outlying wetlands lost to the Gulf would reduce storm surges and thrillify Ducks Unlimited.

[finboy]

Originally Posted by Spliffdaddy

I think some of you are being a bit judgmental. Nagin said he wanted a chocolate city - and chocolate cities take a long time to rebuild.

Especially in the heat.