[villalobos]

that seems to show that France might be doing a better job than Spain, Germany or the UK in integrating its muslim community. This will come asa surprise to those who think that last winter riots were a problem of miuslims against the rest, which is was not.

http://pewresearch.org/obdeck/?ObDeckID=50

A good quote

'Voici La Différence

However, even on the hot button issues of the Middle East, French Muslims depart company with others of their faith both in Europe and in the Muslim world. For example, French Muslims are evenly split on the question of the effect of the victory by the radical group Hamas in this year's Palestinian election, with 44% saying it was good for Palestinians and 46% judging it bad. By comparison, British Muslims weighed in lopsidedly on the positive side (56% 'good' vs. 18% 'bad') as did Spanish Muslims (57% vs. 22%).

Moreover, joined only by German Muslims in Europe, the French are heavily opposed (71%) to the acquisition of nuclear weapons by Iran. British Muslims, in contrast, are evenly split on the subject.

And while the majority of Muslims in all four European countries surveyed say they have little or no confidence in Osama bin Laden, French Muslims are virtually unanimous (93%) in their disdain. (By comparison, 68% of British Muslims submit a vote of no confidence in the Al Qaeda leader.)

Most striking, however, is the difference between the views that French Muslims hold about people of other faiths and the views held by Muslims elsewhere in Europe and in predominantly Muslim countries. French Muslims even top the general publics in the United States and France in favorable ratings of Christians (91% of French Muslims vs. 88% of Americans and 87% of the French take that view).

But what most distinguishes French Muslims from their co-religionists not only in the Muslim world but in Europe, is their attitude toward Jews. Fully 71% of French Muslims express a positive view of people of the Jewish faith, compared with only 38% of German Muslims, 32% of British Muslims, 28% of Spanish Muslims and still lower numbers in the predominantly Muslim countries surveyed. In this, Muslims reflect the view of the larger French public among whom fully 86% express a favorable opinion of Jews, a higher proportion than even than among the American public.'

I am sure some here will learn a little bit.

[Spliffdaddy]

I'm curious as to what happens to Europe in the next two decades.

The forecast doesn't look good, according to a lot of stuff I've been reading.

What happens there, will happen in the USA eventually...but it'll happen to a lot of European nations first.

Loss of culture, etc.

[Kerrigan]

As someone else has said, the UK is sleepwalking its way to segregation.

The same is true of the rest of Europe. Social harmony will be disrupted as Third World Muslim immigrants become the new servile class in Europe.

[Spliffdaddy]

Immigrants are bringing their culture with them. Instead of assimilating with their host nation's culture, they tend to group together - ignoring the customs, language, and traditions that made the country *worth* moving to.

The USA is absolutely dependent on its culture. Most democracies are.

[voodoo]

Originally Posted by Spliffdaddy

Immigrants are bringing their culture with them. Instead of assimilating with their host nation's culture, they tend to group together - ignoring the customs, language, and traditions that made the country *worth* moving to.

Exactly. This is a major problem. A fundamental problem.

V

[idjeff]

Originally Posted by Spliffdaddy

The USA is absolutely dependent on its culture. Most democracies are.

We have a culture??? NASCAR? WWF?

Seriously though, I've lived here 37 years now and I have yet to pinpoint an "American Culture"

[Kerrigan]

There is a rather distinct variation of English culture that runs up and down the east coast, from Maine all the way down to Georgia. It is similar to the 'Old Boy' atmosphere that you can still find in parts of UK.

[idjeff]

Yes, but not really an "American Culture"....maybe I should just start a thread instead of hijacking this one...or you're welcome to if you'd like

[Kerrigan]

How could America magically come up with a separate, unique culture? Cultures evolve from immigrants and their predecessors.

[- - e r i k - -]

Originally Posted by Kerrigan

How could America magically come up with a separate, unique culture? Cultures evolve from immigrants and their predecessors.

Indeed.

[idjeff]

Originally Posted by Kerrigan

How could America magically come up with a separate, unique culture? Cultures evolve from immigrants and their predecessors.

Yes...I know that. No country in history has "magically" created its own culture, but over time they have developed their own culture. But the question I posed was "what is American Culture"...and to that question I have no idea. There are so many cultures that are intertwined that I don't think that America has a culture--other than a culture which is mixed from all the other cultures of the world. It's most definately european dominant in its culture as a whole, but within the larger cities, this is not the case, which brings me back to the original question of "what is American Culture"...

[- - e r i k - -]

I think your signature quite eloquently answers that question.

[Hawkeye_a]

Originally Posted by idjeff

We have a culture??? NASCAR? WWF?

Seriously though, I've lived here 37 years now and I have yet to pinpoint an "American Culture"

-Change (something most people(not all) in muslim countries cant comprehend)
-Apple pie
-Thanksgiving
-Blue jeans
-Hamburgers & hotdogs
-Coca Cola
-Nasa
-Skysrapers, shopping malls
-Rock N Roll, R&B, Jazz
-Guitars
-Mustangs (both kinds)

Just a few things i could come up with in about 3 minutes. but by far the most important thing is "change"....the sheer fact the need to change is embraced by America (as a nation) as with most "western" nations. thats the most difinitive part of the "culture". (example: 50's-60's you have the civil rights movement and the whole hippie thing, 70's disco, 80's hairbands, 90's grunge and boybands, etc....and thats just in music n fashion).

Cheers

[Troll]

Originally Posted by Spliffdaddy

What happens there, will happen in the USA eventually...but it'll happen to a lot of European nations first.

Loss of culture, etc.

I find this a hysterical statement coming from an American. The United States is a country of immigrants. To the extent that there is any American culture today, it is the product of mixing different cultures and people together. Putting more into the mix only stands to reinforce what made you American in the first place. And equally, I don't see other cultures as a threat to European culture. Au contraire!

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by - - e r i k - -

I think your signature quite eloquently answers that question.

burn.

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by Troll

I find this a hysterical statement coming from an American. The United States is a country of immigrants. To the extent that there is any American culture today, it is the product of mixing different cultures and people together.

So basically what you are saying is, when Europeans hate us, it's just a form of self hate.

[villalobos]

Originally Posted by Kevin

So basically what you are saying is, when Europeans hate us, it's just a form of self hate.

And vice versa.....

[Doofy]

Originally Posted by idjeff

We have a culture??? NASCAR? WWF?

Seriously though, I've lived here 37 years now and I have yet to pinpoint an "American Culture"

Yes, America has a culture. It's always difficult to pinpoint your own culture. A lot of Brits say that we haven't got a culture, but to you (on the outside looking in), it'll be easy to see that we have.

[Doofy]

Originally Posted by Kerrigan

As someone else has said, the UK is sleepwalking its way to segregation.

The UK seems to be waking up. There's a lot of talk recently about multi-culturalism not working (along the lines of "what's this mess we've got ourselves into and how do we get out of it?").

Originally Posted by Spliffdaddy

Immigrants are bringing their culture with them. Instead of assimilating with their host nation's culture, they tend to group together - ignoring the customs, language, and traditions that made the country *worth* moving to.

QFT.

What should happen is that immigrants should absorb the host culture whilst adding a little of their own to the mix. So the immigrant gets 90% of the host while the host gets 0.00001% of the immigrant (figures completely random but you get the drift). Give and take.

Of course, this won't happen with a certain group - because they're here to conquer, not to integrate.

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by villalobos

And vice versa.....

I see more of the vice than the versa.

[villalobos]

Originally Posted by Kevin

I see more of the vice than the versa.

It is in the eye of the beholder.

Edit : By the way, what do you base your opinion on? Have you been to Europe before?

[Troll]

Originally Posted by Doofy

Of course, this won't happen with a certain group - because they're here to conquer, not to integrate.

This deserves to be quoted for the posterity of its sheer stupidity!

I might just point out that the British Muslims who've engaged in terrorism have all been second generation Brits. So they didn't come to the UK to do anything. They were born here!

[voodoo]

Originally Posted by Troll

This deserves to be quoted for the posterity of its sheer stupidity!

I might just point out that the British Muslims who've engaged in terrorism have all been second generation Brits. So they didn't come to the UK to do anything. They were born here!

No he's right. The British Muslims who engage in terrorism are indeed second generation.. which shows how they are not adapting. They are not integrating. That's the problem.

V

[nonhuman]

I wonder how much of an effect it has on the poll where the Muslims in the various European countries tended to emigrate from. Could it be that the Muslims in France tend to come from a particular area and the Muslims in other countries tend to come from other particular areas? Obviously Iranian emigrants are going to have different opinions on Iran than Saudi Arabian emigrants or Palestinian emigrants. Especially as Iranians are generally going to be non-Arab, while Saudi Arabians and Palestinians are.

All Muslims are not the same, and just assuming that they are is probably a big part of why non-Muslims are having such a hard time understanding Muslims.

[Shaddim]

Originally Posted by Troll

This deserves to be quoted for the posterity of its sheer stupidity!

We're being civil in this thread, you're not. Go away if you can't extend some courtesy.


and, Doofy's right...

[Troll]

Originally Posted by voodoo

No he's right. The British Muslims who engage in terrorism are indeed second generation.. which shows how they are not adapting. They are not integrating. That's the problem.

V

... or third or fourth generation. Sure it's a problem that they aren't integrating and possibly the UK could learn something from France about integration. But suggesting that Muslims are in the UK to conquer it is ridiculous. The Muslims that the UK has a problem with are there because they were born there! Not because they came here to conquer! They're not a secret army.

[Troll]

Originally Posted by MacNStein

We're being civil in this thread ...

What's civil about xenophobia? What's civil about labelling Muslims that live in the West as would-be conquerors? Nothing! It's fear mongering xenophobia generally followed up with genocidal solutions. If you came in here and said blacks or gays or Jews or any other minority group were out to conquer us, I wouldn't be any more civil than I was. Heck, I thought I was pretty civil just calling the comment stupid (do note that I called the COMMENT stupid).

[Doofy]

Originally Posted by Troll

... or third or fourth generation. Sure it's a problem that they aren't integrating and possibly the UK could learn something from France about integration.

The suggestion that France is somehow immune to islamic problems is at best an illusion, at worst a lie. Ask some of the Jewish Parisians who've had their family members tortured and killed by "integrated" French muslims.

Originally Posted by Troll

But suggesting that Muslims are in the UK to conquer it is ridiculous.

It's the truth. Either you've got your head buried in the sand or you're in collusion with the invaders.

Originally Posted by Troll

The Muslims that the UK has a problem with are there because they were born there! Not because they came here to conquer!

So we didn't have a problem with Hamza then? They're all here to turn Europe in a house of islam (and if they're not, they're not muslims - since this is a duty to all). The only reason we have more of a problem with the home-grown ones is because we can't deport them back to where they came from.

islam is incompatible with Western democratic principles. And, as such, should get the f off my continent.

[Doofy]

Originally Posted by Troll

What's civil about xenophobia?

Some memo been sent around telling you that the word "islamophobia" can no longer be used or something?

Originally Posted by Troll

What's civil about labelling Muslims that live in the West as would-be conquerors?

The gloves are off. It's time to tell the truth. If you need to go find out the truth about islam, go read the koran. Or just read Mojo/Abe's posts.

Originally Posted by Troll

If you came in here and said blacks or gays or Jews or any other minority group were out to conquer us

If someone came in here and said that, they'd be wrong. I, however, am right.

Repeat after me:

islam is not a race.
islam is not a nationality.
islam is not a birth abnormality.

[Sayf-Allah]

Originally Posted by Doofy

It's the truth. Either you've got your head buried in the sand or you're in collusion with the invaders.

So we didn't have a problem with Hamza then? They're all here to turn Europe in a house of islam (and if they're not, they're not muslims - since this is a duty to all).

Where does Islam say that? Examples please.

islam is incompatible with Western democratic principles. And, as such, should get the f off my continent.

How is it incompatible with "Western democratic principles"? Examples please.

[Nicko]

Originally Posted by Doofy

islam is incompatible with Western democratic principles. And, as such, should get the f off my continent.

Islamic populations are growing around the world, get used to it.

[Sayf-Allah]

Originally Posted by Doofy

If you need to go find out the truth about islam, go read the koran.

True

Or just read Mojo/Abe's posts.

lol

[Shaddim]

Originally Posted by Troll

What's civil about xenophobia? What's civil about labelling Muslims that live in the West as would-be conquerors? Nothing! It's fear mongering xenophobia generally followed up with genocidal solutions. If you came in here and said blacks or gays or Jews or any other minority group were out to conquer us, I wouldn't be any more civil than I was. Heck, I thought I was pretty civil just calling the comment stupid (do note that I called the COMMENT stupid).

It's your delivery, it's designed to cause a bad reaction, it's very inflammatory and out of line in contrast with the civil nature of the conversation.

Plus, there's nohing xenophoblic about it. When you move to a new place you try to adapt and work on getting along with others. This has not, however, been the case most Muslims who move into new communities, even after 2-3 generations.

[Shaddim]

Originally Posted by Nicko

Islamic populations are growing around the world, get used to it.

Or, there will be a global conflict that will destroy 50% of the Earth's population, which is a much more likely scenario.

[Shaddim]

**** your crucifix
your religion and it's uselessness
your propaganda is more wicked than that of Lucifer's

Well now, that's just charming.

At least I'm consoled with the fact that you won't last very long here.

[olePigeon]

Originally Posted by Hawkeye_a

-Apple pie
-Thanksgiving
-Blue jeans
-Hamburgers & hotdogs
-Coca Cola
-Nasa
-Skysrapers, shopping malls
-Rock N Roll, R&B, Jazz
-Guitars
-Mustangs (both kinds)

-Apple pie - English/Dutch
-Hamburgers & hotdogs - German
-Guitars - Iranian
-Rock N Roll - English
-Skysrapers, shopping malls - Egyptian
-Mustangs (both kinds) - Spannish (the quadruped kind)

However, the rest you listed are American.

[voodoo]

Originally Posted by Sayf-Allah

Where does Islam say that? Examples please.

How is it incompatible with "Western democratic principles"? Examples please.

Hello Logic

V

[Doofy]

Originally Posted by Sayf-Allah

How is it incompatible with "Western democratic principles"? Examples please.

There ya go Logic.

[Landos Mustache]

Originally Posted by villalobos

Edit : By the way, what do you base your opinion on? Have you been to Europe before?

You really think that redneck has left his small town or at very best his State?

Fox news is all you need!

[Troll]

Originally Posted by Doofy

Repeat after me:

islam is not a race.
islam is not a nationality.
islam is not a birth abnormality.

Is judaism?

You are doing precisely what Hitler did with the Jews. You are trying to create fear by inventing a threat and laying that threat at the door of a group of people who have nothing in common but their religion. You're taking Brits that happen to ascribe to a particular set of religious beliefs (that you and split personalities like Mojaberdeen interpret in a way that suits your designs) and then you turn these people into demons that are trying to violently conquer the rest of us. With the aim obviously of getting us to realise that we need to resist.

You may truly believe that tripe - millions of Germans believed it when Hitler spewed the same vile hate - but that does not make it true. Nor does it mean that the rest of us will sit back and treat you civilly while you spew these hate-filled ideas reminiscent of humanity's darkest days. I think your ideas are way beyond mere "stupidity" but I restrain myself for the sake of debate.

[Doofy]

Originally Posted by Troll

You are doing precisely what Hitler did with the Jews.

No. I'm doing exactly what the allies did with Hitler. You're doing exactly what Chamberlain did with Hitler.

Originally Posted by Troll

You are trying to create fear by inventing a threat

I'm not inventing a threat. One only has to open one's eyes and look at the borders of the muslim world to notice that it's quite real.

Originally Posted by Troll

and laying that threat at the door of a group of people who have nothing in common but their religion. You're taking Brits that happen to ascribe to a particular set of religious beliefs (that you and split personalities like Mojaberdeen interpret in a way that suits your designs) and then you turn these people into demons that are trying to violently conquer the rest of us. With the aim obviously of getting us to realise that we need to resist.

http://www.masada2000.org/islam.html
Read the bit at the bottom in the green outline.

Originally Posted by Troll

You may truly believe that tripe - millions of Germans believed it when Hitler spewed the same vile hate - but that does not make it true. Nor does it mean that the rest of us will sit back and treat you civilly while you spew these hate-filled ideas reminiscent of humanity's darkest days. I think your ideas are way beyond mere "stupidity" but I restrain myself for the sake of debate.

Again, you're equating islam with the Jews, when in fact islam is the Hitler side of the equation.

[Troll]

Originally Posted by Doofy

I'm not inventing a threat. One only has to open one's eyes and look at the borders of the muslim world to notice that it's quite real.

You're looking at some extremist writings and then you're attributing your interpretation of those extremist writings to every Muslim in the Western world. That is patently ridiculous. It's also patently a technique used by the Nazis - create a menace by taking extreme ideas and applying them to all members of a certain class. Get people worked up through fear and then exploit it.

You're doing this under the auspices of revealing the truth. Just as Hitler said he was revealing the truth about Jews when he spoke of their desire to take over the world and steal our money from us. There's as much "truth" in the bull that you're spewing as there was in Hitler's characterisation of the Jews.

Muslims do not all subscribe to the beliefs that you're referencing. They are not secretly coordinating to conquer the Western world. They are not sitting at home waiting for the signal to attack. You've been listening to that nutcase, Mojarberdeen's conspiracy theories for too long if you believe that.

[Doofy]

Originally Posted by Troll

You're looking at some extremist writings and then you're attributing your interpretation of those extremist writings to every Muslim in the Western world. That is patently ridiculous. It's also patently a technique used by the Nazis - create a menace by taking extreme ideas and applying them to all members of a certain class. Get people worked up through fear and then exploit it.

You're doing this under the auspices of revealing the truth. Just as Hitler said he was revealing the truth about Jews when he spoke of their desire to take over the world and steal our money from us. There's as much "truth" in the bull that you're spewing as there was in Hitler's characterisation of the Jews.

Again, islam is not the "Jew victim". It's the "nazi perpetrator".
You're bending to reverse propaganda in exactly the same way that the folks who voted Hitler into power did.

Originally Posted by Troll

You've been listening to that nutcase, Mojarberdeen's conspiracy theories for too long if you believe that.

Actually, I'm the one who initially educated the Mojaberdeen in these matters.

Oh, and FYI, my argument is not with muslims. It's with islam (as I've stated many times before). Hate Windows, don't mind most Windows users.

[Troll]

Originally Posted by Doofy

Again, islam is not the "Jew victim". It's the "nazi perpetrator".
You're bending to reverse propaganda in exactly the same way that the folks who voted Hitler into power did.

No sir, YOU are the "Nazi perpetrator". You are the one taking a leaf out of Hitler's book and demonising a religion in the name of revealing the "truth" to us.

Originally Posted by Doofy

Oh, and FYI, my argument is not with muslims. It's with islam (as I've stated many times before).

I'm wondering how we interpret the statement that there's a group out there that wants to conquer us in a way that is not anti-Muslim.

[Doofy]

Originally Posted by Troll

No sir, YOU are the "Nazi perpetrator". You are the one taking a leaf out of Hitler's book and demonising a religion in the name of revealing the "truth" to us.

Come back and argue that point when the Buddhists, Sikhs, Hindus and Rastas start blowing planes out of the sky. Neville.

Until then, I'm off to mess about with breasts. Because, in a western democracy, I can.

[Sayf-Allah]

Originally Posted by MacNStein

Well now, that's just charming.

At least I'm consoled with the fact that you won't last very long here.

Yes, isn't it a shame that people talk this way about religions and their followers? If the mods consider the signature a violation of the rules they can contact me about it. No big deal changing it.

[Sayf-Allah]

Originally Posted by voodoo

Hello Logic

V

:bows:

[Sayf-Allah]

Originally Posted by Doofy

There ya go Logic.

And that has what to do with Islam?

[Sayf-Allah]

Originally Posted by Doofy

Again, you're equating islam with the Jews, when in fact islam is the Hitler side of the equation.

In what way? Examples please.

[Nicko]

Originally Posted by Doofy

Come back and argue that point when the Buddhists, Sikhs, Hindus and Rastas start blowing planes out of the sky. Neville.

All of those groups have committed terrorism in the past and some still do today. What was your point?