[Spliffdaddy]

So, what do ya say, liberals...should we prosecute the person who 'outed' the CIA agent, Valerie Plame?

I think that person should be executed by firing squad.

What's your take?

[BRussell]

Almost no one would be left of the Bush administration if everyone involved in that was executed.

[Spliffdaddy]

No, actually it involved only one person.

Seems McCain would be looking for a new political strategist.

Come back when you discover the real truth. And you'll see the original post was a trick question.

I don't believe *any* of the investigations of the Bush administration have yielded any wrongdoing. But you wouldn't know that by listening to the mainstream media.

[Dork.]

Huh? All I found was this

In Hubris, Isikoff and Corn suggest that Richard Armitage, Deputy Secretary of State in 2003, may be the missing link in the story that has been called "Plamegate." Said to be a notorious gossip, Armitage told several reporters about Valerie Plame's role with the CIA -- but he reportedly didn't realize for several months that he was the source described in one of their articles.

[Spliffdaddy]

ding ding ding

we have a winner.

Armitage admitted he was the 'leak' within 2 weeks after the investigation started.

yet, the "investigation" continued. Why? Good question.

Even after they knew who leaked Valerie's CIA status, it didn't stop the investigator from pointing the finger at other members of the Bush administration - and asking for Rove's resignation!

Pure partisan politics, along with a willing mainstream media - who are currently so deathly silent about the whole investigation, you'd think it never happened.

If you ever wondered about the resolution of previous investigations of the Bush administration, then wonder no more. None of them turned up any wrongdoing whatsoever. In most cases, the guilty party wasn't a Republican - or there was no crime committed to begin with.

[besson3c]

I think it was Zell Miller that outed Plame.

[davesimondotcom]

It was pretty much common knowledge she worked for the Agency. That's the way I understand it, anyway. She wasn't a covert agent in the first place.

This whole thing is blown WAY out of proportion.

[Spliffdaddy]

They investigated the leak of a covert CIA agent - who was never covert.

11 days into the investigation, Richard Armitage admits he was the source of the leak. This was known by the investigators - as well as the news media.

Yet the investigation continued for 16 more months - all the while the news media and investigators condemned members of the Bush administration for leaking the information.

In an effort to save face, somebody had to be charged with something. And the liberals would *never* charge Armitage - he's one of their own. So, Libby gets to spend a lot of money defending himself from the accusation that he withheld evidence - by virtue of the fact that he couldn't remember - verbatim - the words of a conversation he had a long time ago. During an investigation that was for all intents and purposes OVER before it barely began.

Every accusation leveled at the Bush administration after the first 11 days was pure BS - and the news media knew it - and the investigators knew it - but they participated for the sole purpose of trying to discredit Dubya for engaging in a war the liberals believed was unnecessary.

Good luck getting this story from the mainstream media. Fat chance they'll admit to being partisan.

[Dork.]

Originally Posted by Spliffdaddy

And the liberals would *never* charge Armitage - he's one of their own.

????

You do realize who he is, don't you?

I'll give you a hint here.

[Spliffdaddy]

Oh I know who he is.

Why, do you suppose, was he not prosecuted?

Why is the news media keeping quiet?

(Another trick question. Be careful)

[Spliffdaddy]

When I said "he's one of their own", I wasn't being clear enough. I didn't mean to imply that Armitage was a liberal, though I admit it seems to read that way. What I meant was he wasn't on the liberal media's hit-list. He was an innocent bystander.

Here's a cut&paste explanation from a blog that explains it better than I can. I forgot to grab the link to the blog. sorry.

The Plame leak in Novak's column has long been cited by Bush administration critics as a deliberate act of payback, orchestrated to punish and/or discredit Joe Wilson after he charged that the Bush administration had misled the American public about the prewar intelligence. The Armitage news does not fit neatly into that framework. He and Powell were not the leading advocates of war in the administration (even though Powell became the chief pitchman for the case for war when he delivered a high-profile speech at the UN). They were not the political hitmen of the Bush gang. Armitage might have mentioned Wilson's wife merely as gossip. But--as Hubris notes--he also had a bureaucratic interest in passing this information to Novak.

[Dork.]

Originally Posted by Spliffdaddy

When I said "he's one of their own", I wasn't being clear enough. I didn't mean to imply that Armitage was a liberal, though I admit it seems to read that way. What I meant was he wasn't on the liberal media's hit-list. He was an innocent bystander.

Here's a cut&paste explanation from a blog that explains it better than I can. I forgot to grab the link to the blog. sorry.

The Plame leak in Novak's column has long been cited by Bush administration critics as a deliberate act of payback, orchestrated to punish and/or discredit Joe Wilson after he charged that the Bush administration had misled the American public about the prewar intelligence. The Armitage news does not fit neatly into that framework. He and Powell were not the leading advocates of war in the administration (even though Powell became the chief pitchman for the case for war when he delivered a high-profile speech at the UN). They were not the political hitmen of the Bush gang. Armitage might have mentioned Wilson's wife merely as gossip. But--as Hubris notes--he also had a bureaucratic interest in passing this information to Novak.

Well, at least you're starting to make some sense. Although I really do think you had no clue what you were taking about and pulled something out of your ass at the last minute. Still not sure what John McCain has to do with it.

I do think it's plausable that the prosecutor found about this, maybe even in the short timeframe you specified. But since others in the Bush administration did not know this for sure, they couldn't be sure that the investigation would not lead directly to them, and started a cover-up. We all know that sometimes, the cover-up is usually worse than the crime, and when the prosecutor got wind of a cover-up he may have pressed even harder.

To speculate further, Libby may have got in trouble because his attemps to cover things up (and lying under oath in the process) were found out. Rove did not get in trouble either because his cover-up attempts were better or, more likely, he simply told the truth at all times to the prosecutor. I may not like Rove all that much, but I'll be the first to admit he's one of the smarter people in the White House, and would likely not perjure himself.

I think it's at least as plausable as your story, which assumes that (short of Colin Powell, who was a media darling already) the media would spare anyone in the Bush Administration that it had a juicy story on. In fact, given all the attention this story has gotten, I think the only reason that a journalist would sit on the story and not publish it woudl be because he planned to write a book about it....

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by Spliffdaddy

If you ever wondered about the resolution of previous investigations of the Bush administration, then wonder no more. None of them turned up any wrongdoing whatsoever. In most cases, the guilty party wasn't a Republican - or there was no crime committed to begin with.

They are still sour over the whole Clinton thing. As if the Republicans did anything to make Clinton act the way he did.

[Spliffdaddy]

Dork,

Armitage is currently working for McCain.

Furthermore there was no "cover-up" in the Bush administration - because there was no need or purpose to cover anything up. It was well-known where the leak originated, and it was known early.

[Dork.]

Originally Posted by Spliffdaddy

Dork,

Armitage is currently working for McCain.

Furthermore there was no "cover-up" in the Bush administration - because there was no need or purpose to cover anything up. It was well-known where the leak originated, and it was known early.

Ahh, I haven't seen a reference to that in the quick googling I did.

Anyway, I have my doubts that it was as "well-known" as you think. Some of the accounts I have read (including one at my favorite Liberal Mouthpiece) suggest that Armitage may not have realized the implications of his comments to Novak right away, and that the State Department (not the media) were actively working to conceal the existence of the leak from the President and the White House.

So, if all the White House staff knew is that there was a leak somewhere, and if Mr. Libby thought he was the initial source of the leak, then he might have tried to cover up his contribution, since with the information he had at the time, he thought he might have been at risk. It's a stretch, I'll admit, but within the realm of possibility.

The overwhelming conclusion that I have reached is that there was no positive effort on the part of the White House to divulge anything regarding what Ms. Plame may or may not have been. (That, and $.25, will get you... well.. nothing really! ) They may have confirmed information that reporters already had, but they were not the initial sources. And the fact that the prosecutor did not go after Armitage is proof that he couldn't get enough proof together to do so. We'll know soon: if Armitage lied to the prosecutor, and that is detailed in this book, there will likely be a second indictment coming....

[finboy]

Originally Posted by davesimondotcom

It was pretty much common knowledge she worked for the Agency. That's the way I understand it, anyway. She wasn't a covert agent in the first place.

This whole thing is blown WAY out of proportion.

Sure, it was common knowledge in DC at the time. Prior to all of the fallout. Everyone knew what Joe Wilson's wife did. And it wasn't "agenthood" it was "analysis."

[subego]

Originally Posted by Spliffdaddy

and the news media knew it

What's your source on this?

I'll buy mistaken or incompetent (or both) before premeditated lie.

Sorta like Bush and WMDs

Edit: Speaking of mistaken and incompetent, if the media knew why didn't FOX News jump on this little gem two weeks in?

[Spliffdaddy]

I'll try to provide a link for you. I believe it was from a news conference.

Several reliable sources have stated it as fact - so the proof must be out there somewhere.

[Spliffdaddy]

If the mainstream media isn't biased - why are you having to get this information from a guy named Spliffdaddy - at a Apple-related discussion forum?

What the hell does that tell you?

[subego]

Originally Posted by Spliffdaddy

If the mainstream media isn't biased - why are you having to get this information from a guy named Spliffdaddy - at a Apple-related discussion forum?

I learned Armitage was the leaker on CNN.com and saw it repeated on "Countdown", or are they not liberal enough?

So far, the only new thing you've told me is that the media knew about this 11 days in.

Without some proof of this allegation, all you've shown is that the media doesn't like to play-up their failures. This trait knows no party.

Originally Posted by Spliffdaddy

What the hell does that tell you?

That if you can't provide proof, it is doubtful you will play-up your failure?

[Spliffdaddy]

Google

There are hundreds of links that prove exactly what I've said.

You've been around here as long as I have, right? In case you don't recall, I've made incorrect statements exactly three times. Damn good record of accuracy, huh? edit: 2 of those incorrect statements were based on incorrect news stories.. (Barak Obama joins Republican Party, Israeli/Hezbollah cease-fire broken after 22 hours by rocket strikes..it was 4 hours, and not from rocket strikes)

Richard Armitage has come clean and admitted through his lawyer that the Newsweek story was accurate: he was Robert Novak's source.

What's even more stunning is the confirmation that Armitage disclosed his talks with Novak to the FBI before Patrick Fitzgerald was ever appointed as special prosecutor.

Think about that: there was never anything "there" for Fitzgerald to investigate in the first place! Yet millions of tax dollars have gone down the drain in this investigation, and one person, Scooter Libby, has lost his job and been indicted because his memory of events differed from someone else's. And, as Rush Limbaugh pointed out, the media, Fitzgerald, and Democrats used this non-case as an excuse to smear the Administration, particularly Karl Rove.

One must also ask how Richard Armitage could, in good conscience, remain quiet for three years as Fitzgerald's investigation went on and hurt so many people. It wasn't enough to tell the FBI; he should have gone public and put a stop to the speculation and stories at the outset. Just One Minute has written a good story on "The Hubris of Richard Armitage."

And when did the media become aware it was Armitage who leaked Valerie Plame's CIA status?


JIM LEHRER: It's also been suggested, Neil, that he made similar off-handed comments to other reporters. Can you confirm that?

NEIL LEWIS: He did, only in one instance that we know of, and that's a month earlier, in June 2003, a similar, as you say, off-handed comment to Bob Woodward, the assistant managing editor of the Washington Post and a celebrated author, one of the world's most famous reporters.

Mr. Woodward's role is a little different because he apparently did nothing with the information, just kept it to himself. And he was a late player in this. And after it all played out, he testified to the grand jury that, indeed, he did learn this from Mr. Armitage.

[Spliffdaddy]

Who did he tell?

THE ASSISTANT MANAGING EDITOR OF THE WASHINGTON POST.

I think that qualifies as 'news media'.

When?

JUNE 2003

[Spliffdaddy]

JIM LEHRER: What is known about when Patrick Fitzgerald, the special prosecutor, when he found out that the source was Richard Armitage?

NEIL LEWIS: That's really a fascinating issue that raises lots of questions, because, as I mentioned before, Mr. Armitage figured out he was the source and went to the Justice Department and was questioned by FBI officials in October of 2003.

JIM LEHRER: October 2003?

NEIL LEWIS: Yes. Mr. Fitzgerald doesn't come on the scene until December 2003. So the day that he takes office as the special prosecutor to find out who was the leaker and what was behind it, the day he takes his chair, he knows that the primary leaker to Bob Novak was, in fact, Richard Armitage.

[Spliffdaddy]

Armitage and Powell are now working as Foreign Policy Advisors for John McCain's 2008 Presidential campaign.

Dubya should have fired Colin Powell on the first day of his presidency.

Powell and Armitage said not a word - while Rove and Libby were being scrutinized and ridiculed. Shameful.

[subego]

Originally Posted by Spliffdaddy

Google

There are hundreds of links that prove exactly what I've said.

I would say there are thousands, since by your definition, Robert Novak would be "the news media" just as much as Bob Woodward is.

No biggie though. Your definition yanks the teeth out of "the news media knew it" argument better than I probably could.

[dcmacdaddy]

Originally Posted by finboy

Sure, it was common knowledge in DC at the time. Prior to all of the fallout. Everyone knew what Joe Wilson's wife did. And it wasn't "agenthood" it was "analysis."

Really? I lived in DC for the last 14 years and didn't know she existed . . . let alone know she was a spy. Heck, I know some folks in the intelligence community (a couple NSA folks and a CIA field operative--a paramilitary doing "black bag" jobs, mostly in Iraq and Afghanistan) who didn't know she existed prior to her being outed by Robet Novak's column.

Maybe you ought to amend your blanket statement a bit.

[spacefreak]

Originally Posted by dcmacdaddy

Really? I lived in DC for the last 14 years and didn't know she existed . . . let alone know she was a spy. Heck, I know some folks in the intelligence community (a couple NSA folks and a CIA field operative--a paramilitary doing "black bag" jobs, mostly in Iraq and Afghanistan) who didn't know she existed prior to her being outed by Robet Novak's column.

Maybe you ought to amend your blanket statement a bit.

I think he was referring to the DC elistist social-circles.

Regardless, she wasn't a spy, she arranged Wilson's trip, and she was listed as Wilson's wife "Valerie Plame" on his own web page. All one had to do (like a Novak) upon hearing (from Armitage) that Wilson's wife worked at the CIA and arranged the trip was to visit Wilson's own site to get her name.

The entire "scandal" was a big waste of the nation's time. The only people trying to keep the fantasy alive are the losers who have books hitting the market.

[kobi]

Originally Posted by spacefreak
Regardless, she wasn't a spy, she arranged Wilson's trip, and she was listed as Wilson's wife "Valerie Plame" on his own web page. All one had to do (like a Novak) upon hearing (from Armitage) that Wilson's wife worked at the CIA and arranged the trip was to visit Wilson's own site to get her name.

Before you open your mouth, at least look into the facts. Valerie Plame was a spy, she was covert. Plame just happened to be in charge of finding the "WMD's" in Iraq, and guess what?

When she wouldn't go along with King George's lies, she was outed and hung out to be dried.

Regardless of who outed her, she was still outed. Outed by someone in the Bush Administration.

Here's a link to the story and facts about Valerie Plame and the non-existant WMD's.

http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2006/9/5/145252/5300

[Dork.]

The notion that Plame played a central role in the hunt for WMD in her time as a covert agent for the CIA does make the story more interesting. Still, I'm inclined to disbelieve any site that uses the term "wingnuts" (and isn't homedepot.com...)

[finboy]

Originally Posted by kobi

Valerie Plame was a spy, she was covert.

I guess "the facts" is used kinda loosely huh?

The special prosecutor hasn't been able to establish this, but he has found lots of folks in DC who knew what she did (she was an analyst) because she told them (when he actually started looking). That's why Scooter wasn't charged with outing a CIA agent. She wasn't, and he didn't. He was charged with lying/perjury instead.

Facts are facts, know them, love them.

[finboy]

Originally Posted by dcmacdaddy

Really? I lived in DC for the last 14 years and didn't know she existed . . . let alone know she was a spy. Heck, I know some folks in the intelligence community (a couple NSA folks and a CIA field operative--a paramilitary doing "black bag" jobs, mostly in Iraq and Afghanistan) who didn't know she existed prior to her being outed by Robet Novak's column.

Maybe you ought to amend your blanket statement a bit.

Maybe you just didn't get around enough. And maybe some folks in the intelligence community didn't know who she was (not surprising, seems they've missed a lot of things in recent years), but plenty of "party circuit" types did. She and her husband made no secret of who she was to friends and neighbors.

[kobi]

I guess some people can't read or comprehend.

Libby was charged with lying/perjury because he covered his ass on the outing.

Your right "facts are facts" yours are just wrong is all.

[Spliffdaddy]

lol.

A grand jury can indict a ham sandwich.

While I'm sure you can recall verbatim every conversation you've ever had - Libby can't.

After 2 years of investigating something that was never a crime, the prosecutor had to do something.

Doesn't matter anyhow. Dubya will pardon Libby - on the slim chance the charges stick.

[finboy]

Originally Posted by kobi

I guess some people can't read or comprehend.

Libby was charged with lying/perjury because he covered his ass on the outing.

Your right "facts are facts" yours are just wrong is all.

What planet are you living on? Libby didn't do the outing, so he couldn't have been covering his ass. Did you miss that point? Plame wasn't a secret agent, so there was no outing. The special prosecutor knew about the Armitage/Novak discussion on the day that he assumed the role of special prosecutor. He's admitted as much.

The indictment is here:

http://www.usdoj.gov/usao/iln/osc/do...t_28102005.pdf

Not on some blog. I don't think they've posted it at MoveOn.org either.

[Spliffdaddy]

If there was any way to spin this in a way that didn't make liberals look like total idiots, the mainstream media would be doing it already.

[stupendousman]

Originally Posted by Spliffdaddy

If there was any way to spin this in a way that didn't make liberals look like total idiots, the mainstream media would be doing it already.

...which is why many are circling their wagons right now. Several, including David Broder who stayed largely out of this joke, are suggesting the media apologize to Rove et. al.

Never happen, but then again no one ever accused the far left who controls most of the media (yes..I know there are big exceptions) of honesty and integrity for the most part.