[Helmling]

Five years after Pearl Harbor, the emperor had abdicated all real authority, Japan had surrendered. Fascism was crushed. Hitler was dead. All in five years.

In five years, we have not caught one spoiled Saudi s.o.b. with a god complex. Two weeks ago we came within a hair's breath of suffering another 9/11.

Five years.

This president and his policies have failed us...completely.

[Spliffdaddy]

Get over it. Kerry lost. l.o.s.t.

If you think life is miserable for you now - just wait until New Gingrich becomes president in 2008.

Dubya is a moderate. Gingrich is the real deal.

[goMac]

Originally Posted by Spliffdaddy

Get over it. Kerry lost. l.o.s.t.

The only person who won that election was Osama and the terrorists...

[ironknee]

Originally Posted by Spliffdaddy

Get over it. Kerry lost. l.o.s.t.

spliff really, if kerry won, would we be in iraq now?

[chabig]

Originally Posted by ironknee

spliff really, if kerry won, would we be in iraq now?

The better question is this: If Kerry won, would Osama Bin Laden be in the Senate?

[analogika]

Over the past five years, the orchestrators of the 9/11 attacks have succeeded far beyond what anybody would ever have thought imaginable.

[Kerrigan]

Bin Laden is actually quite funny and intelligent, even for a cave dweller

[analogika]

Originally Posted by chabig

The better question is this: If Kerry won, would Osama Bin Laden be in the Senate?

As opposed to hunted down and caught?

[Nicko]

Originally Posted by chabig

The better question is this: If Kerry won, would Osama Bin Laden be in the Senate?

Uh, the more enlightening question would be if Gore had won...

Oh wait, it would be EXACTLY like this:

President Al Gore:
Good evening, my fellow Americans.

In 2000 when you overwhelmingly made the decision to elect me as your 43rd president, I knew the road ahead would be difficult. We have accomplished so much yet challenges lie ahead.

In the last 6 years we have been able to stop global warming. No one could have predicted the negative results of this. Glaciers that once were melting are now on the attack.

As you know, these renegade glaciers have already captured parts of upper Michigan and northern Maine, but I assure you: we will not let the glaciers win.

Right now, in the 2nd week of May 2006, we are facing perhaps the worst gas crisis in history.

We have way too much gasoline. Gas is down to $0.19 a gallon and the oil companies are hurting.

I know that I am partly to blame by insisting that cars run on trash.

I am therefore proposing a federal bailout to our oil companies because - hey if it were the other way around, you know the oil companies would help us.

On a positive note, we worked hard to save Welfare, fix Social Security and of course provide the free universal health care we all enjoy today.

But all this came at a high cost. As I speak, the gigantic national budget surplus is down to a perilously low $11 trillion dollars.

And don't get any ideas. That money is staying in the very successful lockbox. We're not touching it.

Of course, we could give economic aid to China, or lend money to the Saudis... again.

But right now we're already so loved by everyone in the world that American tourists can't even go over to Europe anymore... without getting hugged.

There are some of you that want to spend our money on some made-up war. To you I say: what part of "lockbox" don't you understand?

What if there's a hurricane or a tornado? Unlikely I know because of the Anti-Hurricane and Tornado Machine I was instrumental in helping to develop.

But... what if? What if the scientists are right and one of those giant glaciers hits Boston? That's why we have the lockbox!

As for immigration, solving that came at a heavy cost, and I personally regret the loss of California. However, the new Mexifornian economy is strong and el Presidente Schwarznegger is doing a great job.

There have been some setbacks. Unfortunately, the confirmation process for Supreme Court Justice Michael Moore was bitter and devisive. However, I could not be more proud of how the House and Senate pulled together to confirm the nomination of Chief Justice George Clooney.

Baseball, our national passtime, still lies under the shadow of steroid accusations. But I have faith in baseball commissioner George W. Bush when he says, "We will find the steroid users if we have to tap every phone in America!"

In 2001 when I came into office, our national security was the most important issue. The threat of terrorism was real.

Who knew that six years later, Afghanistan would be the most popular Spring Break destination? Or that Six Flags Tehran is the fastest growing amusement park in the Middle East?

And the scariest thing we Americans have to fear is ... Live From New York, its Saturday Night!

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by goMac

The only person who won that election was Osama and the terrorists...

Wow that was a silly one.

And you wonder why you guys are never taken seriously with the drama.

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by chabig

The better question is this: If Kerry won, would Osama Bin Laden be in the Senate?

That was silly as well.

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by analogika

Over the past five years, the orchestrators of the 9/11 attacks have succeeded far beyond what anybody would ever have thought imaginable.

I don't think they were planning such events to happen analog. I think this is a bit of a dishonest statement.

Not even going into how that is indeed a projected belief.

[Millennium]

Not the most apt of comparisons, I'm afraid. For all the glory the US gets from the European side of World War II, the Pacific side includes stains on our history that, were they to be repeated today, would make you faint. Or have you forgotten about the nuclear weapons and Japanese internment camps?

[yakkiebah]

Exactly, the only reason why WWII only took 5 years to end is because of the massive scale of destruction. It was fought until there was nothing left standing or if there was an unconditional surrender.

[Helmling]

Originally Posted by Kevin

I don't think they were planning such events to happen analog. I think this is a bit of a dishonest statement.

Not even going into how that is indeed a projected belief.

No, he's right.

What they want is for the West to creep ever closer to an apocalyptic war with Islam. Given the precarious cease fire in the Middle East, growing bold moves by Iran, a lingering insurgency in Iraq and an abysmal American reputation in the world at large, I think it's completely accurate to say that Al Qeada has gotten exactly what it wants out of this administration.

[Cody Dawg]

Spliff

If you think life is miserable for you now - just wait until New Gingrich becomes president in 2008.

Dubya is a moderate. Gingrich is the real deal.

Yes, once George is back out of office he'll be moving back to Mexico.

[ghporter]

By the time of Pearl Harbor, the U.S. was well on the way to being on a "total war" footing. Within weeks after the attack we WERE 100% committed, military and civilian, to putting all our effort into defeating both Germany and Japan. Total war means EVERYTHING takes a back seat to war production, war transportation, war planning, etc. We did NOT do anything like that after 9/11. That, in fact, was what I consider George W. Bush's biggest mistake as president. We had the chance to divorce ourselves from foreign oil, to completely remake our foreign policy, and to unite the world behind a "let's stop extremists of all stripes" banner.

He dropped the ball big time, we pay more than we should-without the appropriate, infrastructure-change funding taxes we should be paying-for petroleum, most of the world has no clue why we're doing what we're doing, and the bad guys are still at it.

It's disingenuous to compare 1945 with 2006. Completely different historical contexts and world political situations apply. It's just very different.

And I don't think Kerry or Gore would have done half as well in kicking the terrorists out of Afghanistan, nor would their announced policies have prevented terror groups from gathering in other places and making more strikes-George hasn't failed at everything.

[Dakar]

The moral of this thread - terrible analogy.

[davesimondotcom]

What are you talking about? It's a great analogy!

After all, in the years since 9/11, the US and it's allies haven't lost 12 million soldiers. The US alone has another, roughly, 400,000 fatalities to match WWII's total.

Meanwhile, we're fighting a nice, politically correct war, where we're trying to avoid civilian casualties, so we're not unloading with full force. We have yet to drop a nuke on anyone. We dropped two on Japan. We've yet to carpet bomb entire towns, civilians be damned, either.

We haven't set up enternment camps for an entire population of our own citizens based on where their ancestry was, either.

Worldwide, it's doubtful that 60 million people have died from the War on Terror, unlike WWII.

Of course, the analogy also fails to take into account that the enemy is a completely different type of enemy, not wearing uniforms. Yet, when was the last major act of terrorism on US soil?

All these "what ifs" about if Gore or Kerry had won only show one thing. That we can't know what would have happened, except to know that whatever either of them did would have been more accepted by some on here merely because of their party affiliations.

Another factor, back then, there was no United Nations. So nations were nations and didn't wait and wait and wait on the UN to negotiate everything, then fail, again.

[Dakar]

Originally Posted by davesimondotcom

Of course, the analogy also fails to take into account that the enemy is a completely different type of enemy, not wearing uniforms. .

That would be the main reason I care not for this analogy.

[spacefreak]

Originally Posted by Helmling

Five years after Pearl Harbor, the emperor had abdicated all real authority, Japan had surrendered.

In five years, we have not caught one spoiled Saudi s.o.b. with a god complex. Two weeks ago we came within a hair's breath of suffering another 9/11.

Five years.

This president and his policies have failed us...completely.

I'd say the liberal-inspired, politically correct nature of how we try to fight wars that is failing us. Let's compare... back then, FDR had Japanese Americans rounded up and put into internment camps, and we dropped nuclear bombs on the enemy.

So before you whine about not having this war wrapped up, why don't you let us know if you support rounding up Arab Americans and nuking the Middle East.

[goMac]

Originally Posted by spacefreak

I'd say the liberal-inspired, politically correct nature of how we try to fight wars that is failing us. Let's compare... back then, FDR had Japanese Americans rounded up and put into internment camps, and we dropped nuclear bombs on the enemy.

So before you whine about not having this war wrapped up, why don't you let us know if you support rounding up Arab Americans and nuking the Middle East.

Yeah! And in five years we had landed on the moon! Why haven't we landed on the moon yet?

In all seriousness, you're talking about a different war, one in which we nuked Japan after they had surrendered and Germany had already surrendered.

[Millennium]

Originally Posted by ironknee

spliff really, if kerry won, would we be in iraq now?

Probably not. And given the likely timetable he would have imposed, the situation in Iraq in 2006-prime would make the actual situation in 2006 look like heaven on Earth. Of course, we'd be out of it, so it wouldn't be our concern anymore, would it?

[ironknee]

if this were WWII, bush caught franco from spain (saddam) when we should have been going after hitler/ hirohito (osama)

[yakkiebah]

Originally Posted by goMac

Yeah! And in five years we had landed on the moon! Why haven't we landed on the moon yet?

In all seriousness, you're talking about a different war, one in which we nuked Japan after they had surrendered and Germany had already surrendered.

Back to school. Japan surrendered after it was nuked.

[Millennium]

Originally Posted by yakkiebah

Back to school. Japan surrendered after it was nuked.

This one actually depends somewhat on your point of view. Japan did in fact offer a surrender before the bombs were dropped, but that offer came with conditions that the US was not prepared to accept. Later, after Hiroshima and Nagasaki, Japan offered unconditional surrender, and the US accepted this.

The question is, does the rejected offer count as surrendering, given that it had strings attached?

[finboy]

Originally Posted by Millennium

Japan did in fact offer a surrender before the bombs were dropped, but that offer came with conditions that the US was not prepared to accept. Later, after Hiroshima and Nagasaki, Japan offered unconditional surrender, and the US accepted this.

[BOBBYLEE]Gee, fellas, we'll all go home, you can have Ft. Sumter back and we'll keep our slaves, how about that?[/BOBBYLEE]

How'd that all work out.

[yakkiebah]

Originally Posted by Millennium

This one actually depends somewhat on your point of view. Japan did in fact offer a surrender before the bombs were dropped, but that offer came with conditions that the US was not prepared to accept. Later, after Hiroshima and Nagasaki, Japan offered unconditional surrender, and the US accepted this.

The question is, does the rejected offer count as surrendering, given that it had strings attached?

I'm not sure but before i'm going to reread a bunch of stuff and bring out the mighty google, when was this other offer and what were those conditions?

[voodoo]

Originally Posted by Helmling

Five years after Pearl Harbor, the emperor had abdicated all real authority, Japan had surrendered. Fascism was crushed. Hitler was dead. All in five years.

In five years, we have not caught one spoiled Saudi s.o.b. with a god complex. Two weeks ago we came within a hair's breath of suffering another 9/11.

Five years.

This president and his policies have failed us...completely.

Very good post. Very true. It became apparent relatively early in GWB's presidency that he was a failure and would fail his nation. He had no vision, no imagination and no bravery.

Mechanical answers to real life questions.

Five years and the US is in worse situation than in 2001. Nice. Slick. Way to go.

I'm glad he's not my president.

V

[voodoo]

Originally Posted by ironknee

if this were WWII, bush caught franco from spain (saddam) when we should have been going after hitler/ hirohito (osama)

WTF? Franco?

Do tell, what part did Franco play in WWII? Oh, Spain wasn't even part of WWII.



V

[ironknee]

Originally Posted by voodoo

WTF? Franco?

Do tell, what part did Franco play in WWII? Oh, Spain wasn't even part of WWII.



V

exactly!

what part did saddam have with 9/11?

[goMac]

Originally Posted by Millennium

This one actually depends somewhat on your point of view. Japan did in fact offer a surrender before the bombs were dropped, but that offer came with conditions that the US was not prepared to accept. Later, after Hiroshima and Nagasaki, Japan offered unconditional surrender, and the US accepted this.

The question is, does the rejected offer count as surrendering, given that it had strings attached?

The only condition was that Japan keep it's emperor.

Yeah gee, that would have been awful. Certainly worth nuking over.

[voodoo]

Originally Posted by ironknee

exactly!

what part did saddam have with 9/11?

Point taken

V

[voodoo]

Originally Posted by goMac

The only condition was that Japan keep it's emperor.

Yeah gee, that would have been awful. Certainly worth nuking over.

What? and waste this once in a lifetime oppertunity to test both types of nukes on actual targets? /sarcasm



V

[ironknee]

Originally Posted by voodoo

Point taken

V

to be fair, franco did sympathize with the axis

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by Helmling

No, he's right.

What they want is for the West to creep ever closer to an apocalyptic war with Islam. Given the precarious cease fire in the Middle East, growing bold moves by Iran, a lingering insurgency in Iraq and an abysmal American reputation in the world at large, I think it's completely accurate to say that Al Qeada has gotten exactly what it wants out of this administration.

AGAIN this is a projected opinion.