[Macrobat]

http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/news/a...ama/article.do

Probably will never be released in the US (at least until after 2009).

Social commentary masked as documentary.

What a concept.

[badidea]

edit: nevermind

[Macrobat]

Point is, the docudrama would be just as effective without digitizing the actual face of a sitting president onto the actor.

If it were done by someone in the US, the Secret Service would be knocking on their door.

The fact that the film-makers chose to do so is what raises this from a "what-if" hypothetical exercise to socio-political commentary. Just as much documentary as Farhenheit 911."

[Monique]

You mean Bush stood there not knowing what to do, since no one told him what to do.

Just like when he learned that a plane had flown into the World Trade Centre.

[Macrobat]

I mean you are lost in space. If you seriously believe what you just posted. I suppose he should have jumped up screaming hysterically in a room full of elementary school children and ran from the room to single-handedly and miraculously appear in New York, using his super powers to simultaneously put out the fire and stop the other plane?

Here's a hint - executives delegate, good executives wait until they have all the facts before they rashly run off and do the first thing that pops into their head.

BTW, the other recent presidential choice was - in his own words - cowering under his desk for 30 minutes.

[olePigeon]

Originally Posted by Macrobat

Here's a hint - executives delegate, good executives wait until they have all the facts before they rashly run off and do the first thing that pops into their head.

Someone should let Bush in on that.

[BlueSky]

Originally Posted by Macrobat

I mean you are lost in space. If you seriously believe what you just posted. I suppose he should have jumped up screaming hysterically in a room full of elementary school children and ran from the room to single-handedly and miraculously appear in New York, using his super powers to simultaneously put out the fire and stop the other plane?

Here's a hint - executives delegate, good executives wait until they have all the facts before they rashly run off and do the first thing that pops into their head.

BTW, the other recent presidential choice was - in his own words - cowering under his desk for 30 minutes.

Dude. He was waiting to be told what to do. Your strawman presentation doesn't cut it. No, he's not going to get hysterical, he's going to say "Excuse me kids, there's something important I have to tend to, some Presidential stuff". Gives 'em a wink, wishes their pet goat the best and leaves the room. He wasn't capable of that, obviously.

Here's another hint: Good executives, whislt reading "My Pet Goat" to a group of children, and after they're told that they're under attack, LEAVE THE ROOM IMMEDIATELY in order to get all the facts ASAP. Not wait seven minutes.

I can't believe there's still any debate about this. Hang it up. Your boy is a...boy.

[Kevin]

You anti-Bush zealots crack me up.

Seriously Grow-up.

[Gossamer]

Originally Posted by BlueSky

Here's another hint: Good executives, whislt reading "My Pet Goat" to a group of children, and after they're told that they're under attack, LEAVE THE ROOM IMMEDIATELY in order to get all the facts ASAP. Not wait seven minutes.

You said yourself he was waiting to be told what to do...you act like those 7 minutes would have changed anything. You act like he actually gets to make decisions...

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by Gossamer

You act like those 7 minutes would have changed anything.

Those who make a big deal out of this are saying more about their own character than Bush's.

[goMac]

Originally Posted by Macrobat

I mean you are lost in space. If you seriously believe what you just posted. I suppose he should have jumped up screaming hysterically in a room full of elementary school children and ran from the room to single-handedly and miraculously appear in New York, using his super powers to simultaneously put out the fire and stop the other plane?

I would have expected him to politely excuse himself, and take control of the situation. You know, talk to his generals and stuff.

Instead, he left Cheney in charge who ended up being inept. Cheney wouldn't even order any of the planes shot down. Of course, this is assuming Bush would have enough character to do better.

By sitting there in that classroom he essentially made himself a non-player while the military was trying to get orders as to what they were to do. I expect more from someone calling themselves a commander in chief.

[Kevin]

What a freakin exaggerated bag of hot air you just spewed there.

Even the 9/11 commission said had Bush done anything differently it wouldn't have mattered. That he reacted properly.

It's only anti-Bush zealots that keep bringing this up as if it relevant in any way.

Again, this says more about YOU than Bush.

[goMac]

Originally Posted by Kevin

What a freakin exaggerated bag of hot air you just spewed there.

Even the 9/11 commission said had Bush done anything differently it wouldn't have mattered. That he reacted properly.

It's only anti-Bush zealots that keep bringing this up as if it relevant in any way.

Again, this says more about YOU than Bush.

So you're saying Bush leaving Cheney in charge, and then Cheney literally refusing to shoot down any of the planes was the best way to go?

[Kevin]

No, I am saying the 9/11 commission said that. (I am sure you know better than they do..)

I wouldn't have the SLIGHTEST idea as to what to do in said situation.

Nor am I going to act so pretentious as to pretend I would.

[goMac]

Originally Posted by Kevin

No, I am saying the 9/11 commission said that. (I am sure you know better than they do..)

I wouldn't have the SLIGHTEST idea as to what to do in said situation.

Nor am I going to act so pretentious as to pretend I would.

So you're saying the commander in chief doing no commanding in the biggest national crisis in the last 50 years is perfectly acceptable?

As for the slightest idea of what to do, I think if you were in that situation you would probably shoot down the planes. Sad as it is, it doesn't take very much of a math education to figure out which option would have saved more lives.

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by goMac

So you're saying the commander in chief doing no commanding in the biggest national crisis in the last 50 years is perfectly acceptable?

Go back and re-read what I said and stop repeating yourself.

As for the slightest idea of what to do, I think if you were in that situation you would probably shoot down the planes. Sad as it is, it doesn't take very much of a math education to figure out which option would have saved more lives.

Oh please. If Bush shot down planes he would have REALLY go wrung over the wringer.

AGAIN, the 911 commission found that NOTHING was done wrong here.

Why do you feel you know better than they do?

Isn't that a tad pretentious? I think it is.

Lets quit that.

[goMac]

Originally Posted by Kevin

Go back and re-read what I said and stop repeating yourself.

Oh please. If Bush shot down planes he would have REALLY go wrung over the wringer.

I really don't think he would have. At the very least not as much as he did for sitting in a classroom. At least he would have taken some action.

Originally Posted by Kevin

AGAIN, the 911 commission found that NOTHING was done wrong here.

Why do you feel you know better than they do?

Isn't that a tad pretentious? I think it is.

Lets quit that.

I'd honestly like you to quote that. Find me the quote from the 9/11 commission that said Bush did nothing wrong by sitting in that class.

I'm sure a lot of average people would have sat in that classroom, or not decided to shoot down those planes, but the job of president isn't for average people, is it?

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by goMac

I really don't think he would have. At the very least not as much as he did for sitting in a classroom. At least he would have taken some action.

Yes yes he would have. Back when it was THOUGHT that the plain that the passengers took over MIGHT have been shot down there was OUTCRY of pissiness and anti-Bush rants. Then the tape showed up and showed that wasn't the case.

BTW Cheney DID order them to be shot down. By then it was too late.There was a lot of miscommunication going on that had NOTHING to do with Bush.

I'd honestly like you to quote that. Find me the quote from the 9/11 commission that said Bush did nothing wrong by sitting in that class.

"As for why Bush stayed in the classroom after being told of the attacks, he has defended this decision. The 9-11 Commission reported that Bush "told us his instinct was to project calm, not to have the country see an excited reaction at a moment of crisis. The press was standing behind the children in the classroom; he saw their phones and pagers start to ring. The President felt he should project strength and calm until he could better understand what was happening."

Plagued by miscommunication and confusion, US aviation and military officials were entirely unprepared for the Sept. 11 attacks in New York, Washington and Pennsylvania, the 9/11 Commission reported yesterday.

After its exhaustive account of the events on Sept. 11, 2001 the commission summarized its conclusions:

(Tape)
NORAD officials have maintained that they would have intercepted and shot down United 93. We are not so sure. We are sure that the nation owes a debt to the passengers of United 93. Their actions saved the lives of countless others, and may have saved either the U.S. Capitol or the White House from destruction. The details of what happened on the morning of September 11 are complex. But the details play out a simple theme. NORAD and the FAA were unprepared for the type of attacks launched against the United States on September 11, 2001. They struggled, under difficult circumstances, to improvise a homeland defense against an unprecedented challenge they had never encountered and had never trained to meet.
That was the 9/11 Commission's conclusion on US defense systems. Among the new information contained in the report is a detailed reconstruction of the reactions of President Bush on the morning of the attacks

The timeline of events detailed in the commission's report demonstrated that the last of the four planes had crashed well before Cheney authorized the shoot downs. The panel also found that due to miscommunication and uncertainty, the shoot down orders were never passed on to fighter pilots:

(Tape)
The President was seated in a classroom of second graders when, at approximately 9:05, Andrew Card whispered to him: "A second plane hit the second tower. America is under attack." The President told us his instinct was to project calm, not to have the country see an excited reaction at a moment of crisis. The national press corps was standing behind the children in the classroom; he saw their phones and pagers start to ring. The President felt he should project strength and calm until he could better understand what was happening. The President remained in the classroom for another five to seven minutes, while the children continued reading. He then returned to a holding room shortly before 9:15, where he was briefed by staff and saw television coverage. He then spoke to Vice President Cheney, Dr. Rice, Governor Pataki, and FBI Director Mueller. He decided to make a brief statement from the school before leaving for the airport. The Secret Service told us they were anxious to move the President to a safer location, but did not think it imperative for him to run out the door. Between 9:15 and 9:30, the staff was busy arranging a return to Washington, while the President consulted his senior advisers about his remarks. No one in the traveling party had any information during this time that other aircraft were hijacked or missing. As far as we know, no one was in contact with the Pentagon. The focus was on the President's statement to the nation. No decisions were made during this time, other than the decision to return to Washington. The President's motorcade departed at 9:35, and arrived at the airport between 9:42 and 9:45. During the ride the President learned about the attack on the Pentagon. He boarded the aircraft, asked the Secret Service about the safety of his family, and called the Vice President. According to notes of the call, at about 9:45 the President told the Vice President: "Sounds like we have a minor war going on here, I heard about the Pentagon. We're at war....somebody's going to pay."

[subego]

Just wanted to poke my head in and say as a card-carrying member of the Bush Haters Of America:

I think this British "documentary" shows egregiously poor taste.

Okay. I'm done. You can start arguing about "My Pet Goat" again.

[BlueSky]

Originally Posted by Kevin

"As for why Bush stayed in the classroom after being told of the attacks, he has defended this decision. The 9-11 Commission reported that Bush "told us his instinct was to project calm, not to have the country see an excited reaction at a moment of crisis. The press was standing behind the children in the classroom; he saw their phones and pagers start to ring. The President felt he should project strength and calm until he could better understand what was happening."


After its exhaustive account of the events on Sept. 11, 2001 the commission summarized its conclusions:

(Tape)
The President was seated in a classroom of second graders when, at approximately 9:05, Andrew Card whispered to him: "A second plane hit the second tower. America is under attack." The President told us his instinct was to project calm, not to have the country see an excited reaction at a moment of crisis. The national press corps was standing behind the children in the classroom; he saw their phones and pagers start to ring. The President felt he should project strength and calm until he could better understand what was happening. The President remained in the classroom for another five to seven minutes, while the children continued reading. He then returned to a holding room shortly before 9:15, where he was briefed by staff and saw television coverage. He then spoke to Vice President Cheney, Dr. Rice, Governor Pataki, and FBI Director Mueller. He decided to make a brief statement from the school before leaving for the airport. The Secret Service told us they were anxious to move the President to a safer location, but did not think it imperative for him to run out the door. Between 9:15 and 9:30, the staff was busy arranging a return to Washington, while the President consulted his senior advisers about his remarks. No one in the traveling party had any information during this time that other aircraft were hijacked or missing. As far as we know, no one was in contact with the Pentagon. The focus was on the President's statement to the nation. No decisions were made during this time, other than the decision to return to Washington. The President's motorcade departed at 9:35, and arrived at the airport between 9:42 and 9:45. During the ride the President learned about the attack on the Pentagon. He boarded the aircraft, asked the Secret Service about the safety of his family, and called the Vice President. According to notes of the call, at about 9:45 the President told the Vice President: "Sounds like we have a minor war going on here, I heard about the Pentagon. We're at war....somebody's going to pay."

All this is is a report on what the commission was told, or facts that were garnered from their investigation. This "finding" does not amount to a thumbs up or down on the president's long pause in any way whatsoever by the commission.

Originally Posted by Kevin

Even the 9/11 commission said had Bush done anything differently it wouldn't have mattered. That he reacted properly.

I can't find that part, could you point it out?

[goMac]

Yes Kevin, we're aware what happened and why Bush did it. We want to know the commission's opinion on whether it was the proper thing to do.

[Mark Larr]

The left didn't get their wet dream of the Air Force blasting airliners from the sky willy-nilly.


Period.