[macrandallt]

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2006/9/7/13639/70980

This is a good look into the madness that Steve is buying into here with this orchestrated propaganda piece engineered by Karl Rove. I've never used a PC in my home in my life. But "turning to the darkside" has a whole new spin for me if Steve lets this go down.

[idjeff]

ALL HAIL DIGBY...whoever the hell he is...

BTW, I have no idea what this thread is about...

[macrandallt]

Just my trying to raise some awarareness in the Mac community about ABC's involvement with this whole "The Path of 911" mini series thing. Since Steve is such a big player now in those circles, I was hoping that he could make a difference if like minds chimed in.

Digby does rule though, no doubt!

[Sky Captain]

If this "docudrama" was presented bashing Presiden Bush, we'd be forced to accept it as truth.
Much like Michael Moore's crap.

[RAILhead]

[kobi]

The best way to stop this movie is to let ABC know that we don't want to pollute our airwaves with this Neo-Con trash.

Here's a link so that you can tell ABC that you don't want this "movie" to air.

http://thinkprogress.org/tellabc

Pass the link along.

Daliykos.com and Digby both rule.

[Sky Captain]

Why not, we're innundated with leftist tripe from every major "news source" every night.
And Hollyweird shoves their twisted leftist adgenda down our throats in the cinemas and TV.

[spacefreak]

Whiny liberals are amazing. They tell everyone to go see Fahrenheit 9/11. They run around the interrnet and post hordes of links to any and all "Bush is evil" conspiracy theories on YouTube. They donate to and support PACs tht produce campaign ads that morph Bush's image into Hitler. And they praise a docudrama that centers around Bush being gunned down in Chicago.

Now a miniseries is produced that dramatizes events included in the 9/11 Commission's report (commission chairperson Thom. Kean was consulted throughout), and they are all up in arms, demanding that ABC pull the series or completely rewrite and refilm the piece so that it doesn't shed an ounce of bad light on the Clinton administration.

Notice how these whiners aren't offering up any evidence that Clinton actually did anything about al Qaeda and Bin Laden.

[kobi]

Sky Captain what you call "leftist tripe" is what the real world calls truth and news.

I'm sorry if you can't deal with the world that the neocons has made.

Plus you can always turn on Fox news and feel at home. Fox tells 2 versions of every story, Bush's version and Rove's version.

All right wing-nuts want to get lied to anyway, otherwise you wouldn't put up with Bush's BS.

Here's something that is real simple if you don't like what you see, turn it off.

[spacefreak]

Originally Posted by macrandallt

Just my trying to raise some awarareness in the Mac community about ABC's involvement with this whole "The Path of 911" mini series thing. Since Steve is such a big player now in those circles, I was hoping that he could make a difference if like minds chimed in.

Nice to see you join the community, but Steve Jobs doesn't read these forums, and it's not like DailyKos here: we don't all have like minds.

What did Clinton do about Bin Laden during his 8-years in power? The 9/11 Commission and this miniseries drama's premise say "nothing", but apparently you disagree.

Please enlighten us.

[spacefreak]

Originally Posted by kobi

Sky Captain what you call "leftist tripe" is what the real world calls truth and news. I'm sorry if you can't deal with the world that the neocons has made. Plus you can always turn on Fox news and feel at home. Fox tells 2 versions of every story, Bush's version and Rove's version.

All right wing-nuts want to get lied to anyway, otherwise you wouldn't put up with Bush's BS.

Yawn...

[kobi]

Spacefreak, a movie that tells lies to cover up more lies is a problem. 9-11 is Bush's problem, not Clinton's.

Why are you wanting to flip the mirror to Clinton about Bin Laden? Again Bin Laden isn't Clinton's problem.

My question is what has Bush done about Bin Laden?? That's what I thought...........nothing at all.

You mention Tom Kean, it's funny that he was a paid consultant. He has even said that he and the writer wrote scenes to fit his version of what happend. Plus that idiot would sell his Momma for a vote, so his credibility is shot.

If you want to call this movie anything, call it Tom Kean's fictional version of 9-11.

Here's a video link to another 9-11 commission member blasting all the lies in the movie.

http://www.crooksandliars.com/2006/0...-inaccuracies/

[Sky Captain]

Do I have to hunt all the untruths the "media" has plugged as truth only to have it shot down as tripe?

Go ahead buy into your "truth".
It's still all lies in my book.

CBS is a great example.
Along with the Green Helment.


I'll bet that you think Michael Moore makes truthful documentaries.
Leftist tripe. Nothing more.

[Orion27]

Originally Posted by kobi

Spacefreak, a movie that tells lies to cover up more lies is a problem. 9-11 is Bush's problem, not Clinton's.

Why are you wanting to flip the mirror to Clinton about Bin Laden? Again Bin Laden isn't Clinton's problem.

My question is what has Bush done about Bin Laden?? That's what I thought...........nothing at all.

You mention Tom Kean, it's funny that he was a paid consultant. He has even said that he and the writer wrote scenes to fit his version of what happend. Plus that idiot would sell his Momma for a vote, so his credibility is shot.

If you want to call this movie anything, call it Tom Kean's fictional version of 9-11.

Here's a video link to another 9-11 commission member blasting all the lies in the movie.

http://www.crooksandliars.com/2006/0...-inaccuracies/

Well, since Sandy Burglar stole documents from the national archives directly relating to critiques of Clinton Administration and it's handling of national security, and since the Democrats want to stop screening of the film, why not send Burglar into ABC to steal the film?

[kobi]

You wouldn't have Sandy's email would you?

[Sky Captain]

The only problem here is the "docudrama" dosen't completely blame the Bush administration for 9/11.

[Jawbone54]

This is so hilariously pitiful. How fun it is to watch liberals squirm over national TV actually showing something that might paint a liberal in a different light besides enamored glorification.

[spacefreak]

Originally Posted by kobi

9-11 is Bush's problem, not Clinton's. Why are you wanting to flip the mirror to Clinton about Bin Laden? Again Bin Laden isn't Clinton's problem.

My question is what has Bush done about Bin Laden?? That's what I thought...........nothing at all.

First of all, 9/11 and Bin Laden are my country's problems.

And you don't think fighting back against Bin Laden's organization, al Qaeda, removing their strongheld Taliban skum from power, freezing their assets worldwide, and caturing/killing much of their leadership is doing something?

People are laughing at you because you're such a joke.

[placebo1969]

dailykos, crooksandliars and thinkprogress? Not the most objective sites, are they?

[spacefreak]

Originally Posted by kobi

Here's a video link to another 9-11 commission member blasting all the lies in the movie. Crooks and Liars � Ben-Veniste rips ABC’s fakeumentary over inaccuracies

Yet nowhere in that diatribe does the liberal hack offer a tidbit of evidence that Clinton did a thing about Bin Laden and his organization.

Just because Clinton was portrayed drinking a Pepsi (he's a Coke man) doesn't mean he didn't take a piss that morning.

[spacefreak]

Originally Posted by placebo1969

dailykos, crooksandliars and thinkprogress? Not the most objective sites, are they?

That's the hilarious thing. They rant about a dramatized miniseries, yet they continue to post links to absurd material.

I wonder where our new member/thread starter disappeared to. My $10.00 says he was quickly off to every other related and unrelated forum he could find to post his Kos-ordered blather.

[ironknee]

hmmm i hope they keep osama in the mini series and not saddam

[finboy]

Originally Posted by macrandallt

Just my trying to raise some awarareness in the Mac community about ABC's involvement with this whole "The Path of 911" mini series thing. Since Steve is such a big player now in those circles, I was hoping that he could make a difference if like minds chimed in.

Digby does rule though, no doubt!

So... you're trolling for flames, is that it? You just registered to post this about the miniseries? Just to let some Mac users know, huh?

Wow. It's started.

Why didn't you register when Syriana was released and talk then about how inflammatory and speculative IT was?

Hey, you should tell everyone about democrats.org and their latest spam propaganda. Heck, don't beat around the bush, just spill it right out:

The Democratic Party | Petitions | Keep "Path to 9/11" Propaganda Film Off The Air <----- that's the link in my daily propaganda email from The Mothership.

Herr Goebbels would be proud.

It's been said here before, but it's going to be worse this time I have a feeling:

There are PROFESSIONAL posters out there spreading the word and telling people what to think. If that doesn't scare the HELL out of everyone I don't know what should. It's ORGANIZED, just like seminar callers on talk radio.

An alternative way of looking at it is: if you have to pay people to promote your opinion, how valuable of an opinion can it be?

[finboy]

Originally Posted by kobi

Sky Captain what you call "leftist tripe" is what the real world calls truth and news.

You're kidding right?

[Cody Dawg]

spacefreak

Whiny liberals are amazing. They tell everyone to go see Fahrenheit 9/11. They run around the interrnet and post hordes of links to any and all "Bush is evil" conspiracy theories on YouTube. They donate to and support PACs tht produce campaign ads that morph Bush's image into Hitler. And they praise a docudrama that centers around Bush being gunned down in Chicago.

Now a miniseries is produced that dramatizes events included in the 9/11 Commission's report (commission chairperson Thom. Kean was consulted throughout), and they are all up in arms, demanding that ABC pull the series or completely rewrite and refilm the piece so that it doesn't shed an ounce of bad light on the Clinton administration.

Notice how these whiners aren't offering up any evidence that Clinton actually did anything about al Qaeda and Bin Laden.

[itai195]

Originally Posted by spacefreak

Whiny liberals are amazing.

Whiny Republicans did the same thing with regards to Fahrenheit 9/11, as I recall. And Nightline's tribute to soldiers killed to Iraq. And 'The Book of Daniel'... etc. Whiny people just like to whine.

[kobi]

Originally Posted by spacefreak
And you don't think fighting back against Bin Laden's organization, al Qaeda, removing their strongheld Taliban skum from power, freezing their assets worldwide, and caturing/killing much of their leadership is doing something?

Spacefreak the joke is on you. It obvious that you believe what is handed you to by the right wing-nuts. It would be great if you would question something, but then you would be a liberal.

Who has done that? Let me give you a clue.........not the US.

Do you believe that Bush or our country has done anything about Bin Laden or Al Qaeda, besides make them stronger??

If that's the case then why did Pakistan and the Taliban just sign a pact?

Iraq is now in a civil war that we started. It is a breeding ground for terrorists and terrorist camps now. At least when Hussein was in power, the country had order and not chaos, because he ran it with an iron fist.

The world of the Terrorist is a better place with Bush in power. By distracting the world with Iraq and stealing their oil, we have dropped the ball on other foreign interests Iran, N. Korea, China Etc........

So when we have to pull out of Iraq after the fall of Bagdad, I want you to remember how much Bush and his administration has done for the world.

Enjoy this dying grasp of the Republican party as you know it. come Nov. the ball-game is going to change big time.

Link to the Pakistan and Taliban pact:
http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2006/9/5/225535/2839

[Orion27]

Originally Posted by kobi

Spacefreak the joke is on you. It obvious that you believe what is handed you to by the right wing-nuts. It would be great if you would question something, but then you would be a liberal.

Who has done that? Let me give you a clue.........not the US.

Do you believe that Bush or our country has done anything about Bin Laden or Al Qaeda, besides make them stronger??

If that's the case then why did Pakistan and the Taliban just sign a pact?

Iraq is now in a civil war that we started. It is a breeding ground for terrorists and terrorist camps now. At least when Hussein was in power, the country had order and not chaos, because he ran it with an iron fist.

The world of the Terrorist is a better place with Bush in power. By distracting the world with Iraq and stealing their oil, we have dropped the ball on other foreign interests Iran, N. Korea, China Etc........



So when we have to pull out of Iraq after the fall of Bagdad, I want you to remember how much Bush and his administration has done for the world.

Enjoy this dying grasp of the Republican party as you know it. come Nov. the ball-game is going to change big time.

Link to the Pakistan and Taliban pact:
http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2006/9/5/225535/2839

From your post I take it your comfortable with tyrants, human rights abuses and the status quo, all which did not stop 9/11. I give credit to our noble and and the liberal West's attempt to
change the paradigm. Removal of tyrants, human rights and democratic liberties. In other words exporting our revolution. I assume from your posts, you are siding with the Islamist Fundamentalists in this struggle. Not to mention the misogynism of the Taliban. Can you explain yourself and how you think life would be better in the long run if Saddam had not been deposed and just how unjustified we are at trying to change the paradigm in the Middle East?

[invisibleX]

Its slightly amusing that anyone would think one end of the political spectrum has the "truth" and the other is a bunch of liars.

Both want to cast themselves in a favorable light to gain or retain power. Nothing more and nothing less. Making either "side" your personal hero is just another step on the road to political ignorance.

[finboy]

Originally Posted by Orion27

Can you explain yourself and how you think life would be better in the long run if Saddam had not been deposed and just how unjustified we are at trying to change the paradigm in the Middle East?

I'm sure there's an article on dailykos that explains all that. Wait, I'll look...


If nothing else, I can find out what the "proper" flavor of KoolAid is today.

[Orion27]

Just stumbled accross this:http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060907/..._banning_women

Kinda makes my point. Remember, ther grand strategery ( sic ) is to ultimately deal with the Saudis repression as well. Free markets and democracy rule.

[goMac]

Films like Fahrenheit 9/11 don't make any attempt to hide that they are the opinion of the left.

What ABC has done wrong is to claim to create a film based on actual events, when the actual events never happened. Then they want to put the film into school teaching curriculums, someplace Fahrenheit never went.

It's clear Right Wing lies that they're trying to push as truth.

[Orion27]

Originally Posted by goMac

Films like Fahrenheit 9/11 don't make any attempt to hide that they are the opinion of the left.

What ABC has done wrong is to claim to create a film based on actual events, when the actual events never happened. Then they want to put the film into school teaching curriculums, someplace Fahrenheit never went.

It's clear Right Wing lies that they're trying to push as truth.

Yes, ABC is part of the right wing conspiracy and the attack on the World Trade Center was an inside job. I have to admit, the liberal left is coming unhinged and will lose big time on this
controversy. And the Liberal unions had nothing to do with Scholasitc. How big of them to support accuracy in media.

[goMac]

Originally Posted by Orion27

Yes, ABC is part of the right wing conspiracy and the attack on the World Trade Center was an inside job. I have to admit, the liberal left is coming unhinged and will lose big time on this
controversy. And the Liberal unions had nothing to do with Scholasitc. How big of them to support accuracy in media.

Huh? The movie is bias, portrays events that never happened, and will be pushed into schools.

This is plain and simple fact.

[ShortcutToMoncton]

Originally Posted by spacefreak

Yet nowhere in that diatribe does the liberal hack offer a tidbit of evidence that Clinton did a thing about Bin Laden and his organization.

This has been discussed before. Clinton headed and authorized the disasterous Operation Infinite Reach bombings on Afghanistan and Sudan in retaliation for the 1998 US Embassy bombings in (I believe) Kenya and Tanzania. Not only were the bombings largely ineffective, but of course the targets were even shown to be suspect or even completely inaccurate.

In addition, you may remember that the Republican Party jumped all over Clinton for his decision, especially since he had only admitted the Lewinsky issue the week before or something.

So, yeah, the negative backlash from Republican (as well as worldwide) sources is seen as one reason why any further action was never taken. Of course, this lack of further action is also seen by many to be the reason why Bin Laden was so ambitious as to attack US soil directly only 3 years later.

Just some random information, thrown in there for fun...and to make you think.

greg

[goMac]

An FBI consultant working on the film quit halfway through because he said the film was inaccurate.

http://thinkprogress.org/2006/09/07/fbi-agent-quit/

[Orion27]

Originally Posted by goMac

Huh? The movie is bias, portrays events that never happened, and will be pushed into schools.

This is plain and simple fact.

Just what is being portrayed as being inaccurate. The whole premise or the artistic license to portray character? i think the fact that Sandy Burgalr stole documents relating to the 9/11 episode
from the national archives should be pushed in schools. Waht are you trying to hide?

[goMac]

Originally Posted by Orion27

Just what is being portrayed as being inaccurate. The whole premise or the artistic license to portray character? i think the fact that Sandy Burgalr stole documents relating to the 9/11 episode
from the national archives should be pushed in schools. Waht are you trying to hide?

ABC is advertising that it is a factual movie based on the 9/11 commission report.

In reality neither thing is true.

[Dork.]

Originally Posted by spacefreak

Whiny liberals are amazing. They tell everyone to go see Fahrenheit 9/11. They run around the interrnet and post hordes of links to any and all "Bush is evil" conspiracy theories on YouTube. They donate to and support PACs tht produce campaign ads that morph Bush's image into Hitler. And they praise a docudrama that centers around Bush being gunned down in Chicago.

Now a miniseries is produced that dramatizes events included in the 9/11 Commission's report (commission chairperson Thom. Kean was consulted throughout), and they are all up in arms, demanding that ABC pull the series or completely rewrite and refilm the piece so that it doesn't shed an ounce of bad light on the Clinton administration.

Notice how these whiners aren't offering up any evidence that Clinton actually did anything about al Qaeda and Bin Laden.

I actually find myself agreeing with most of this, to my great suprise. Well, I guess a broken clock is right at least twice a day, so you're about half as useful today. Most of the huddled masses who are protesting on the Internet would not bat an eyelash if, say, there was a scene when Bush was in that classroom that morning, and an aide came to him and told him about the attack, but Bush said something like "Not right now, that ain't important, I'm reading and I need to make sure I get these big words right for the kiddies! Heh heh."

If there's one difference between Michael Moore's work and this "docu-drama", it's that everyone knows that Moore's work is blatently opinionated, but at least presented as truth since it's a documentary. You can attack Moore's work with facts if you choose.

From what I've read of the ABC offering, though, although it claims to be based on the 9/11 commission report, they've basically admitted that they're making stuff up for dramatic effect. It seems like they want it both ways: they want it to be considered a record of historical events, but make no claim to be presenting those events accurately.

From CNN.com - Clinton officials to ABC: Fix or pull 9/11 miniseries - Sep 7, 2006 :

"For dramatic and narrative purposes, the movie contains fictionalized scenes, composite and representative characters and dialogue, and time compression

Some reworking is required of any historical account in order to make it work on TV or film, naturally, but creating "fictionalized scenes" is going a bit too far. The Clinton Administration officials who are protesting aren't necessarily insisting that the film doesn't critisize them , but they are insisting that the show not make stuff up and present it as part of the historical narratve.

We'll see if it goes to air with some of the specific scenes that have been mentioned in the press, whether the relevant parties try and sue for defamation. The language of the protests as represented in the CNN article suggest they might. I'm not a lawyer, so I have no clue whether they even have a case.

[placebo1969]

Originally Posted by goMac

ABC is advertising that it is a factual movie based on the 9/11 commission report.

In reality neither thing is true.

No it's not. Where has ABC said that? The credits apparently stated that the film was based on the 9/11 Report and now says it is based "in part" on the Report.

[Spliffdaddy]

hahahaha.

Democrats hate truth.

Apparently there was no way to spin the 9/11 thing to make the liberals look good - else ABC would have certainly done it.

From what I've heard, ABC is running this 'mini-series' without commercial interruption.

They spent $40 million dollars in their effort to make it as accurate as possible.

This is gonna leave a mark on the Democratic party...just in time for the elections.

I love it.

364 days a year ABC broadcasts leftist propaganda. When they spend one day telling the truth, the libs start having heart attacks.

[goMac]

Originally Posted by Spliffdaddy

hahahaha.

Democrats hate truth.

Apparently there was no way to spin the 9/11 thing to make the liberals look good - else ABC would have certainly done it.

From what I've heard, ABC is running this 'mini-series' without commercial interruption.

They spent $40 million dollars in their effort to make it as accurate as possible.

This is gonna leave a mark on the Democratic party...just in time for the elections.

I love it.

Too bad the writer just admitted it was made up.

http://thinkprogress.org/2006/09/07/accidents-occur/

Care to apologize?

[Spliffdaddy]

apologize? you must be freakin stupid.

It's accurate. And that comes from sources that have watched it.

care to apologize for the Valerie Plame fiasco?

[goMac]

Originally Posted by Spliffdaddy

apologize? you must be freakin stupid.

It's accurate. And that comes from sources that have watched it.

care to apologize for the Valerie Plame fiasco?

The guy who wrote it said it isn't accurate. It doesn't get much more damning than that.

[besson3c]

Anyone have a gut feeling to spare?

[Dork.]

Originally Posted by goMac

The guy who wrote it said it isn't accurate. It doesn't get much more damning than that.

Quoted for emphasis.

[besson3c]

Comon guys, it pretty shallow to say that you didn't like F911 because the facts were off and you didn't like the content, yet like the ABC thing despite the facts being off just because you like the content.

When the original creator says that a major scene was improvised, that's pretty damning evidence. This will be a dramatized interpretation of what could have happened. Cool.

[placebo1969]

Originally Posted by goMac

The guy who wrote it said it isn't accurate. It doesn't get much more damning than that.

You mean the part

“Sandy Berger did not slam down the phone,” Mr. Nowrasteh said. “That is not in the report. That was not scripted.

Stop the movie. He didn't slam down the phone. Are you serious? This is a big deal?

[Spliffdaddy]

I understand that the basic facts of this mini-series are just that - facts.

Nobody that saw it during its screening earlier this week disputed any of the facts...but some disputed the fact that it made certain members of the Clinton administration look inept. But we knew that already.

Actually, from what I heard the mini-series puts the blame squarely where it belongs - on the terrorists, and on our bloated, sluggish beaurocracy.

[Dr Reducto]

Fox needs to make a 9/11 "documentary" about what would have happened had Jack Bauer been involved