[Jawbone54]

Gotta see it to believe it...

Whether or not Rangel was truly offended by the remarks of Hugo Chavez (and I actually believe he was), this was the right thing for a U.S. Congressman to say about the Venezeulan's speech at the United Nations.

[Kerrigan]

I'm sure he believes it, democrats can be just as patriotic as republicans.

I knew this American girl who was rather far left by American standards, and she came to UK and after seeing an anti-Bush rally, she became utterly incensed.

[pooka]

Great. Like I said in the other thread. This wannabe jackass has now INCREASED support for Bush with his little tantrum. He could care less about Americans or who they vote into office. This is all about getting high fives from the nonalignedanddontmeanshit crew. Whadda tool.

[RAILhead]

Even Pelosi said "Hugo Chavez fancies himself a modern day Simon Bolivar but all he is an everyday thug."

Of course, I'm in the camp that thinks she said that for potential political advantage, but at least she said something.

[itai195]

It comes down to a simple principle for some people: Bush may be an idiot, but he's our idiot.

Personally I can't stand Chavez.

[marden]

Amen to all of you!

[DLQ2006]

Originally Posted by Jawbone54

Gotta see it to believe it...

Whether or not Rangel was truly offended by the remarks of Hugo Chavez (and I actually believe he was), this was the right thing for a U.S. Congressman to say about the Venezeulan's speech at the United Nations.

Yes it was. Kudos to Rangel. If our President ever said 1/10th of that about another country they would have to lengthen the UN session by twice as much just to allow enough time for all the scolding he would take in return. I have a lot of criticisms about this President and about our politicians in general, but let some POS asswipe like that come here and say that crap, it hits me on a visceral level and I am with this President all that much more. That stinch he was smelling that he attributed to "the Devil" our President, was what was still lingering from his friend Ahmawannajihad. Notice the little **** for brains says such things in a place where he knows he won't have his throat cut and head chopped off for it.

[DLQ2006]

Originally Posted by RAILhead

Even Pelosi said "Hugo Chavez fancies himself a modern day Simon Bolivar but all he is an everyday thug."

Of course, I'm in the camp that thinks she said that for potential political advantage, but at least she said something.

Atleast she said something and I will give her the benefit of the doubt. She could have just as easily not said anything and wait to see what type of reaction would do more to advance her personal political career, but she didn't do that.

[RAILhead]

Yup. Where have all the snipers gone?

[BlueSky]

Is this a Latin thing? Reminds me of the illegals invading the US and demanding "immigrant rights". Lotta chutzpah. Or stupidity.

What Chavez in his infinite wisdom has failed to recognize is that remarks like that made on US soil will only strengthen Bush support. So yeah, thanks for nothing, idiot.

Interesting to note that criticizing the president in Venezuela gets you 30 years or so.

[Millennium]

Originally Posted by BlueSky

What Chavez in his infinite wisdom has failed to recognize is that remarks like that made on US soil will only strengthen Bush support. So yeah, thanks for nothing, idiot.

Technically, he didn't make them on US soil: the grounds of the UN building was donated to the UN and belongs only to them, not the US.

Then again, when it comes to things like this, does anyone care?

[BlueSky]

Originally Posted by Millennium

Technically, he didn't make them on US soil: the grounds of the UN building was donated to the UN and belongs only to them, not the US.

Then again, when it comes to things like this, does anyone care?

This morning he made the John Wayne/cowboy remarks in Harlem. That's the offensive part, really.

[DLQ2006]

Originally Posted by BlueSky

Is this a Latin thing? Reminds me of the illegals invading the US and demanding "immigrant rights". Lotta chutzpah. Or stupidity.

What Chavez in his infinite wisdom has failed to recognize is that remarks like that made on US soil will only strengthen Bush support. So yeah, thanks for nothing, idiot.

Interesting to note that criticizing the president in Venezuela gets you 30 years or so.

That little slug is nothing like the vast majority of Mexican immigrants. I've lived around Latinos all of my life (most from Mexico) and they are not only for the most part, beautiful people, but some of the most patriotic, hard-working, family oriented people I've known. We need to secure our borders no doubt, but that pock marked, dwarf Chavez is not like any Mexican I've ever known.

[DLQ2006]

Originally Posted by Millennium

Technically, he didn't make them on US soil: the grounds of the UN building was donated to the UN and belongs only to them, not the US.

Then again, when it comes to things like this, does anyone care?

That building is still on our land and the U.S. disproportionately funds it.

[Millennium]

Originally Posted by DLQ2006

That building is still on our land and the U.S. disproportionately funds it.

Again, technically it's not "our land" anymore: that area is its own sovereign territory. The laws of the US do not apply there.

Then again, as you point out, most people don't really care about the technicalities. It's surrounded on all sides by NYC, so it may as well be part of NYC.

[Jawbone54]

Originally Posted by Millennium

Again, technically it's not "our land" anymore: that area is its own sovereign territory. The laws of the US do not apply there.

Then again, as you point out, most people don't really care about the technicalities. It's surrounded on all sides by NYC, so it may as well be part of NYC.

Focus...

Originally Posted by DLQ2006

That building is still on our land and the U.S. disproportionately funds it.

It's ironic that the nation that is hated the most in the U.N. (or second most, behind Israel) is the nation that funds MUCH more of the United Nations budget than any other country.

Other members of the U.N. applauded when Chavez made his remarks. That alone is enough to make me wish the U.S. would yank its funding of the U.N. and see how they get along then.

[spacefreak]

I appreciate their comments, but Rangel and Pelosi are merely responding to internal polling data that showed that Dems were going to be hurting in the swing-voter column due to Chavez and his Iranian buddy mimicking liberal talking points. If their statements were truly heartfelt, it wouldn't have taken them 24 hours to make their respective statements. Still, kudos for them.

Some of my obsevations...

Notice that Rangel carefully weaves in attacks on Bush and "big oil" in his statement while also sounding apologetic to Chavez:

I feel that I must speak out now since the Venezuelan government has been instrumental in providing oil at discounted prices to people in low income communities who have suffered increases in rent as heating oil prices have risen sharply. By offering this benefit to people in need, Venezuela has won many friends in poor communities of New York and other states. I am surprised that American oil companies have not stepped up to provide that kind of assistance to the poor.

Venezuela's generosity to the poor, however, should not be interpreted as license to attack President Bush. Those who take issue with Bush Administration policies have no right to attack him personally. It was not helpful when President Bush referred to certain nations as an "axis of evil." Neither is it helpful for a head of state to use the sacred halls of the United Nations to insult President Bush.

More Chavez, as he mimicks liberal talking points:

"Bush is an alcoholic, a sick man with a lot of hang-ups... He walks like John Wayne... He doesn't know anything about politics, he got there because of Daddy."

It seems not all Democrats are offended:

Iowa Senator Tom Harkin, a democrat, today defended Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez's United Nations speech in which Chavez called President George Bush the devil. Harkin said the comments were "incendiary", then went on to say, "Let me put it this way, I can understand the frustration, ah, and the anger of certain people around the world because of George Bush's policies." Harkin continued what has been frequent criticism of the president's foreign policy.

For fun, take a swing by Ye Olde Democratic Underground, where Rangel is now the enemy for criticizing statements that liberals feel are the gospel

[Dakar]

Originally Posted by spacefreak

I feel that I must speak out now since the Venezuelan government has been instrumental in providing oil at discounted prices to people in low income communities who have suffered increases in rent as heating oil prices have risen sharply. By offering this benefit to people in need, Venezuela has won many friends in poor communities of New York and other states. I am surprised that American oil companies have not stepped up to provide that kind of assistance to the poor.

Venezuela's generosity to the poor, however, should not be interpreted as license to attack President Bush. Those who take issue with Bush Administration policies have no right to attack him personally. It was not helpful when President Bush referred to certain nations as an "axis of evil." Neither is it helpful for a head of state to use the sacred halls of the United Nations to insult President Bush.

I like it.

[Zeeb]

I'm not fond of Chavez, but what he said isn't really anything new that I haven't heard uttered by several different members of Congress as well as countless leaders of all kinds of organizations--including some republicans. To hear democrats now say they are "outraged" is kinda funny to me, considering what I've heard before.

Chavez knows there are people here who are feel very dispossessed and frustrated and he is trying to get in touch with them to cause an unrest--or at least affect the next election.

You all can get angry all you like for what he said, but his free oil and rhetoric are likely winning him quiet praise. I hope it doesn't go beyond that but if it does, what does that tell us?

[villalobos]

Is anybody seriously offended by what Chavez said. I mean seriously? You guys need to grow a thicker skin : this was amusing at best, and certainly not of any importance.

Just like Bush goes on his 'crusade' against the 'axis of evil'. That is incendiary rethoric which catters to the most extremes of their partisans, nothing else.
But I guess given the reaction, Chavez could say 'Mission accomplished'.

[villalobos]

dp.

[Sky Captain]

Rangel and Pelosi's speeches are no better than Chaves's.
These two are just grandstanding. Nothing more.

[Zeeb]

Originally Posted by villalobos

Is anybody seriously offended by what Chavez said. I mean seriously? You guys need to grow a thicker skin : this was amusing at best, and certainly not of any importance.

Just like Bush goes on his 'crusade' against the 'axis of evil'. That is incendiary rethoric which catters to the most extremes of their partisans, nothing else.
But I guess given the reaction, Chavez could say 'Mission accomplished'.

Exactly, I think this is just a bunch of posturing. "look at me, I'm outraged!"

[pooka]

Originally Posted by villalobos

Is anybody seriously offended by what Chavez said. I mean seriously?

Dude, no. No one really gives a **** about what the little tyrant said. It's the effect.

Please see examples of Bush's biggest domestic critics now coming to his defense.

[Kerrigan]

Well, if more democrats like Rangel and Pelosi start blasting Chavez, then this could gain the dems huge points in the upcoming election.

[Spliffdaddy]

until somebody plays a recording of them saying damn near the same thing as Chavez.

(Rush Limbaugh did it today...after he got through bragging about his new Mac Pro quad 3.0 with 16GB of Ram and 4 500GB hard drives)

[Kerrigan]

Originally Posted by Spliffdaddy

(Rush Limbaugh did it today...after he got through bragging about his new Mac Pro quad 3.0 with 16GB of Ram and 4 500GB hard drives and integrated gfx)

wtf!

[Spliffdaddy]

Nah, he was whining about the long shipping delay because he BTO'd with a graphic card upgrade.

Said he bought 4 Mac Pros. Wonder if they were all the same specs? Big money right there.

I think he has a few dollars, though. He mentioned his bi-turbo 612HP Mercedes last week.

[DLQ2006]

Originally Posted by villalobos

Is anybody seriously offended by what Chavez said. I mean seriously? You guys need to grow a thicker skin : this was amusing at best, and certainly not of any importance.

Just like Bush goes on his 'crusade' against the 'axis of evil'. That is incendiary rethoric which catters to the most extremes of their partisans, nothing else.
But I guess given the reaction, Chavez could say 'Mission accomplished'.

Well, President Bush gets up and gives a speech and while he is known for being rather clumsy with this speech sometimes and obviously his speeches are scripted, they are diplomatic. Chavez and Ahmawannajihad get up and show that we are dealing with heads of States that are on a far lower level of diplomacy and competency. They are chumps! Chumps that should be taken to a nuclear missle site and be told "you see this, if anything you said was even close to being true rather than just a manifestation of your arrogance, all of your oil would be ours right now because we could nuke you, take you over, and steal every last drop of your oil if that is what we wanted to do". Does anybody in their right mind really think that if the tables were turned and we had the oil and they had the nukes, that they would be nice and diplomatic with us and let our President go to their country and say such vile things about them? If Bush were to go to Iran at all, we would see his tortured body being drug through the streets by the rabid lunatics going lalalalalalala. Because going lalalalalalalalalala is so very important when dragging dead bodies through the streets.

Their speeches I'm sure played well in third world countries, much of Europe, and with our own barking moonbats because these people can't even distinguish between someone like Hitler who would have had those who openly criticized him strung up on piano wire or shot, and our President who is far too nice in dealing with these despotic thugs.

[goMac]

The President of Iran sounds sane... ehhhh... about half the time I'd say. Maybe a little less.

Chavez always sounds nutty whenever he opens his mouth.

[marden]

Originally Posted by DLQ2006

Well, President Bush gets up and gives a speech and while he is known for being rather clumsy with this speech sometimes and obviously his speeches are scripted, they are diplomatic. Chavez and Ahmawannajihad get up and show that we are dealing with heads of States that are on a far lower level of diplomacy and competency. They are chumps! Chumps that should be taken to a nuclear missle site and be told "you see this, if anything you said was even close to being true rather than just a manifestation of your arrogance, all of your oil would be ours right now because we could nuke you, take you over, and steal every last drop of your oil if that is what we wanted to do". Does anybody in their right mind really think that if the tables were turned and we had the oil and they had the nukes, that they would be nice and diplomatic with us and let our President go to their country and say such vile things about them? If Bush were to go to Iran at all, we would see his tortured body being drug through the streets by the rabid lunatics going lalalalalalala. Because going lalalalalalalalalala is so very important when dragging dead bodies through the streets.

Their speeches I'm sure played well in third world countries, much of Europe, and with our own barking moonbats because these people can't even distinguish between someone like Hitler who would have had those who openly criticized him strung up on piano wire or shot, and our President who is far too nice in dealing with these despotic thugs.

Maybe they misunderstand the meaning of the lyrics.

Four Weddings & a Funeral Soundtrack

ARTIST NAME SONG LYRICS FOR Movie
Wet Wet Wet Lyrics Love Is All Around
Elton John Lyrics But Not for Me
I To I Lyrics The Right Time
Nu Colours Lyrics Smoke Gets in Your Eyes
Gloria Gaynor Lyrics I Will Survive
Elton John Lyrics Crocodile Rock
Swing Out Sister Lyrics La La La (Means I Love You)
Squeeze Lyrics Loving You Tonight
Sting Lyrics The Secret Marriage
Elton John Lyrics Chapel of Love
John Hannah Lyrics After the Funeral (W.H. Auden Poem)

[Sayf-Allah]

Originally Posted by BlueSky

Interesting to note that criticizing the president in Venezuela gets you 30 years or so.

And I'm sure you have a link to back that up, right?

[Sayf-Allah]

Originally Posted by DLQ2006

We need to secure our borders no doubt, but that pock marked, dwarf Chavez is not like any Mexican I've ever known.

That's because he's from Venezuela.

[Sky Captain]

Originally Posted by Sayf-Allah

And I'm sure you have a link to back that up, right?

It's Article 147. And it's 30 months.

The best I could do in 30 seconds.

[Sayf-Allah]

Originally Posted by Sky Captain

It's Article 147. And it's 30 months.

The best I could do in 30 seconds.

Thanks.

But:

Offending ≠ Criticising.

[Sky Captain]

Depends on how and who interprets the law.
So in other words, don't take any chances.

[Sayf-Allah]

Originally Posted by Sky Captain

Depends on how and who interprets the law.
So in other words, don't take any chances.

True enough. I'm no fan of laws like this.

But the fact of the matter is that Venezuela today is more democratic and more free than before Chavez. And I though that was the most important thing.

[Big Mac]

No, not really. Democracy isn't a panacea. Let's assume, for the sake of argument, that your claim about Venezela democracy is true - even though most would disagree. Unrestrained democratic rule is rule by the mob. Hitler was democractically elected before he assumed full dictatorial power, and even after he became dictator his people supported him and would have surely elected him again.

[Dakar]

Originally Posted by Kerrigan

Well, if more democrats like Rangel and Pelosi start blasting Chavez, then this could gain the dems huge points in the upcoming election.

That makes too much sense not to be true.

[Orion27]

This thead just makes me puke. There is nothing that Chavez has said that the Democrats haven't said or worse. Charlie Rangel the worst among them. The Democrats set the stage for Chavez and it backfired. Rangel, Pelosi a Schumer are covering their asses against a backlash against the Democrats and Chavez. Don't tell me the the Democrats haven't worked night and day to bring Bush down, that includes going offshore and spewing the kind of venom we heard here in New York this week. Democrats make me puke.

[marden]

Originally Posted by Sayf-Allah

True enough. I'm no fan of laws like this.

But the fact of the matter is that Venezuela today is more democratic and more free than before Chavez. And I though that was the most important thing.

http://www.heritage.org/research/fea...m?id=Venezuela

Printer-Friendly Version (PDF) http://www.heritage.org/research/fea.../Venezuela.pdf

Quick Study
Trade Policy4
Fiscal Burden4.1
Government Intervention3.5
Monetary Policy5
Foreign Investment5.0
Banking and Finance4.0
Wages and Prices4.0
Property Rights4.0
Regulation4.0
Informal Market4.0

Population: 25,674,000
Total area: 912,050 sq. km
GDP: $102.9 billion
GDP growth rate: –9.4%
GDP per capita: $4,009
Major exports: petroleum, chemicals, basic manufactures
Exports of goods and services: $27.7 billion
Major export trading partners: US 52.7%, Colombia 3.2%, Brazil 3.1%, Germany 2.5%
Major imports: transport equipment, machinery, construction materials
Imports of goods and services: $12.9 billion
Major import trading partners: US 29.2%, Colombia 7.1%, Brazil 6.2%, Mexico 4.3%
Foreign direct investment (net): $1.3 billion
2003 Data (in constant 2000 US dollars)

In the wake of a failed—and hotly contested—2004 recall attempt Venezuelan President Hugo Chávez Frías has clamped down o civil liberties, property rights, and Western foreign oil companies tha are still operating in this impoverished South American country. H has decreed new laws that define public protest as a crime, ha imposed media restrictions that encourage substantial self-censorship under threat of operating license confiscation, and ha begun to seize large rural farms and ranches that he claims are no sufficiently productive. Energy and Petroleum Minister Rafae Ramírez announced in May 2005 that income taxes on the handful o foreign firms pumping oil in Venezuela would be raised to 50 percen from 34 percent, retroactive to 2001. Energy experts reportedl believe that Venezuela is shipping less oil than it claims as a resul of lagging maintenance at the state-owned Petróleos de Venezuel S.A., the internal resources of which allegedly have been sapped b corruption, mismanagement, and the diversion of profits to socia programs and government officials. To the alarm of neighbors an internal opponents, the government has announced the purchase o 100,000 assault rifles, a number of Russian combat helicopters, an possibly MiG-29 jet fighters, as well as a reserve-force buildup t some 1.5 million cadres. Venezuela's fiscal burden of government i 0.7 point worse this year. As a result, its overall score is 0.07 points worse this year.

[marden]

Originally Posted by Orion27

This thead just makes me puke. There is nothing that Chavez has said that the Democrats haven't said or worse. Charlie Rangel the worst among them. The Democrats set the stage for Chavez and it backfired. Rangel, Pelosi a Schumer are covering their asses against a backlash against the Democrats and Chavez. Don't tell me the the Democrats haven't worked night and day to bring Bush down, that includes going offshore and spewing the kind of venom we heard here in New York this week. Democrats make me puke.

If you have a terrible argument with your husband and call him every name in the book you would still get very upset if someone else called him the same names.

Ask any cop after a domestic disturbance call.

[BlueSky]

Originally Posted by Sayf-Allah

And I'm sure you have a link to back that up, right?

I was repeating what Prettyface McChatty said on CNN, and possibly she was referring to this (from SkyCaptain's link):

In Caracas, however, the minister's rantings -- and those of his master, Chavez -- are no longer funny. Beginning this month journalists or other independent activists accused by the government of the sort of offenses alleged by Izarra can be jailed without due process and sentenced to up to 30 years.

Persons accused of conspiring against the government with a foreign country can get 20 to 30 years in prison.

So apparently if they deem that you were aligned with a "foreign country", 30 years. I stand semi-corrected.

[Krusty]

Originally Posted by Jawbone54

Focus...

It's ironic that the nation that is hated the most in the U.N. (or second most, behind Israel) is the nation that funds MUCH more of the United Nations budget than any other country.

Other members of the U.N. applauded when Chavez made his remarks. That alone is enough to make me wish the U.S. would yank its funding of the U.N. and see how they get along then.

It's not really ironic at all. The UN fund schedule is based on GNP (an arrangement we approved). We actually pay proportionately slightly less than average based on the size of our economy. On 12/11/1945, the US Congress voted unanimously to host the headquarters in the US and then John D. Rockefeller donated money to buy the site in NYC on which the UN is currently housed. We BEGGED to have it here ... nobody asked us (though there have been several countries that have asked that it be moved OUT of the US to a more neutral site like Switzerland).

The US could yank its funding and ask the UN to relocate and it will have succeeded in helping establish its own global, polar opposition ... an organized body of all the nations of the world except us (and probably Israel). Without our HEAVILY USED veto power in the Security Council and without a forum to present our (sometimes false) positions a-la Colin Powell, this would only serve to dramatically lessen US power and influence in the world. And, FYI, the combined contributions of European countries exceeds that of the US by a fair margin so we'd basically be handing over the reins of world decision-making to them. So, go ahead and yank US funding from the UN .. the couple billion dollars could easily be made up by the other 180+ countries of the world but the cost of our self-extraction from the global body would be the systematic retreat of the US out of the global stage as the rest of the world creates new deals and new alliances amongst themselves to the exclusion of US business and political interests. We gain much much more than we lose by our membership in the UN.

[Orion27]

Originally Posted by marden

If you have a terrible argument with your husband and call him every name in the book you would still get very upset if someone else called him the same names.

Ask any cop after a domestic disturbance call.

If one abuses one's spouse in public, maligning the character of said spouse, consciously mischaracterzing the behavior and motives of said spouse, in public, and the abuser turns on a supporter of the abuser, one who echos the abuse of said spouse, I would call that behavior
pathological and criminal. Especially if the abuser feigns innocence and support of the abused

[marden]

Originally Posted by Orion27

If one abuses one's spouse in public, maligning the character of said spouse, consciously mischaracterzing the behavior and motives of said spouse, in public, and the abuser turns on a supporter of the abuser, one who echos the abuse of said spouse, I would call that behavior
pathological and criminal. Especially if the abuser feigns innocence and support of the abused

That's not fair. I spoke to you in English. Please don't use your multi-lingus ability on me.

[Krusty]

Originally Posted by BlueSky

So apparently if they deem that you were aligned with a "foreign country", 30 years. I stand semi-corrected.

Know what the penalty in the US is for being aligned with a foreign country ? Death. (see Ethel and Julius Rosenberg).

[Orion27]

Originally Posted by marden

That's not fair. I spoke to you in English. Please don't use your multi-lingus ability on me.

Spoken like a true Democrat. Life's not fair my friend.

[Sky Captain]

They were spies. There's a difference.

[marden]

Originally Posted by Orion27

Spoken like a true Democrat. Life's not fair my friend.